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The effects of "blinding" temporary weapons

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    • 1945959 [1945959]
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    Thread created on 04:38:20 - 25/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    Last replied 15:58:46 - 17/05/18 (8 years ago)
    Several temp weapons are described as having a "blinding" effect. Flash grenades and smoke grenades reduce opponent's speed. Pepper spray and tear gas reduce opponent's dexterity (thanks Chigurh for that clarification).

    (Note: this guide started as a discussion in GD. I've removed some of the clutter. Please let me know if you want content from the OP, I've saved it offline)

    I wanted to see how effective these weapons were, so I ran some trial attacks against a "control" opponent. Below are the results of attacking the same inactive player for seven complete sets of a control (no temp used) and each temporary blinding weapon. That's 35 attacks total (seven sets of no temp weapon, pepper spray, tear gas, flash bomb, smoke bomb). I used a pillow to maximize the number of hits. The results seemed to be stabilizing at that point and energy is valuable so I compiled the results off of that data.

    I got a spy on the inactive I'm using for the test. At the start, my speed beat his dexterity by 44%. His speed beat my dexterity by 3%.

    Thanks to Chigurh for the great suggestions on what to track and using a pillow! Using the pillow has resulted in more losses and stalemates for me but yields more data points per attack.

    I'm referring to OPPONENT vs. YOU. This is because you could attack with the temporary or defend with it by setting your Attack Settings to use your temporary weapon when attacked. Whether attacking or defending, it will be your opponent's speed or dexterity that is affected.

    Remember that the performance of the temporary weapon is in relation to your baseline performance for that opponent. Also, results may vary with an opponent who has much better stats than you. For example, he may take you out with one hit before you even deploy the temporary. Perhaps I will do a partial test against a stronger opponent in the future.




    Thanks to the following for their support: Louis_de_Pointe, Ariegi, Chicken_Wigs.
    Last edited by 1945959 on 15:03:49 - 22/02/16 (10 years ago)
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    • krazy_kiwi [372539]
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    Posted on 05:37:39 - 25/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    Great Info, I hope you will develop this thread more... Maybe if you have the time and spare energy do 5 or so of each temp, drug ect to show an average, instead of one off's. But looking awesome so far.
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    • Mud [1740734]
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    Posted on 06:02:48 - 25/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    Great idea! I would suggest:
    1. do about 10 attacks with no temps to establish a baseline. It's not the # of attacks, but # of turns attempting to hit ....try for like 100+.
    2. then do about 10 attacks using each of the temps (pepper, flash, tear, smoke). You want to focus on # of turns where he attempts to hit you and count hit/miss for those.
    - don't bother with drug effects yet, they just adjust your stats, when really you want to see the effect of the temp on opponents stats.
    - I'm suggesting 10+ attacks 100+ turns b/c you will need enough to detect a difference in hit rate that isn't b/c of just random chance.
    <-- Please report this URL to -Clansdancer if you see it -->
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    • MmM [256222]
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    Posted on 06:03:12 - 25/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    Temp weapons give you an enormous edge in battle, i have taken down people with 4bil easily with my 3bil stats.

    What i would really like to know about the temp weapons, does the Wielding Helmet really protects you from it.

    Item info:


    The Welding Helmet is a Defensive Armour.

    Designed to protect your eyes, head, and neck from flash burn while welding, this sturdy helmet can also deflect attacks with blunt instruments and pepper spray.

    I buy a lot of cesium mail me ;)

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    • Philistine [475622]
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    Posted on 06:14:20 - 25/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    MmM [256222]

    Temp weapons give you an enormous edge in battle, i have taken down people with 4bil easily with my 3bil stats. What i would really like to know about the temp weapons, does the Wielding Helmet really protects you from it. Item info: The Welding Helmet is a Defensive Armour. Designed to protect your eyes, head, and neck from flash burn while welding, this sturdy helmet can also deflect attacks with blunt instruments and pepper spray.
    Chedburn elaborated on that in the Bugs subforum a week or so ago.
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    • 1945959 [1945959]
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    Posted on 14:32:18 - 25/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    Mud [1740734]

    Great idea! I would suggest: 1. do about 10 attacks with no temps to establish a baseline. It's not the # of attacks, but # of turns attempting to hit ....try for like 100+. 2. then do about 10 attacks using each of the temps (pepper, flash, tear, smoke). You want to focus on # of turns where he attempts to hit you and count hit/miss for those. - don't bother with drug effects yet, they just adjust your stats, when really you want to see the effect of the temp on opponents stats. - I'm suggesting 10+ attacks 100+ turns b/c you will need enough to detect a difference in hit rate that isn't b/c of just random chance.
    That's a good plan. I'll probably just update this thread as I add attacks. It's a significant loss of energy though that could go to training, so I'll have to focus, as you say.
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    • 1945959 [1945959]
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    Posted on 14:35:47 - 25/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    MmM [256222]

    Temp weapons give you an enormous edge in battle, i have taken down people with 4bil easily with my 3bil stats. What i would really like to know about the temp weapons, does the Wielding Helmet really protects you from it. Item info: The Welding Helmet is a Defensive Armour. Designed to protect your eyes, head, and neck from flash burn while welding, this sturdy helmet can also deflect attacks with blunt instruments and pepper spray.
    I'd do it, if only I had a way of getting the inactive to don the helmet, lol.

    Another option is to get a faction mate to wear one when we're practicing, and then use the temp as part of the practice.
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    • Xx_Deathless_xX [1953284]
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    Posted on 15:40:39 - 25/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    nice info. im using pepper :)
    cheap and effective
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    • 1945959 [1945959]
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    Posted on 05:00:27 - 27/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    Edited original post with three trials.
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    • krazy_kiwi [372539]
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    Posted on 10:34:56 - 27/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    Looking great! Thanks got continuing to update it.
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    • Chigurh [1765291]
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    Posted on 11:23:09 - 27/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    I did rate your post R+ for a good idea and effort, but your sample is way to small to say anything about how much the different temps reduce speed/dex respectively.

    Flash bang and smoke is used to reduce opponent's speed, so they're the only two temps worth measuring with regard to opponent's hit/miss ratio.

    Pepper spray and tear gas is used to reduce opponent's dexterity, so if you want to measure this effect, you will have to put in your own hit/miss ratio.

    To get good enough samples without spending thousands of energy, agree with someone to only equip pillow (dmg 12/ hit 84), and make sure you're able to hit 20+ times without killing each other. Ideally, you should not train in this period, and both parties should go to rehab first, and take no drugs (or be on the same drugs) at the same time.
    Last edited by Chigurh on 11:23:42 - 27/01/16 (10 years ago)

    chigurh

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    • Ariegi [325313]
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    Posted on 12:49:17 - 27/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    It is very useful, keep going mate
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    • 1945959 [1945959]
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    Posted on 13:57:54 - 27/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    Chigurh [1765291]

    I did rate your post R+ for a good idea and effort, but your sample is way to small to say anything about how much the different temps reduce speed/dex respectively. Flash bang and smoke is used to reduce opponent's speed, so they're the only two temps worth measuring with regard to opponent's hit/miss ratio. Pepper spray and tear gas is used to reduce opponent's dexterity, so if you want to measure this effect, you will have to put in your own hit/miss ratio. To get good enough samples without spending thousands of energy, agree with someone to only equip pillow (dmg 12/ hit 84), and make sure you're able to hit 20+ times without killing each other. Ideally, you should not train in this period, and both parties should go to rehab first, and take no drugs (or be on the same drugs) at the same time.
    I do have my own hit/miss ration too, I didn't know which ones affected speed and which ones affected dexterity. I'll change the post to show my hit/miss for pepper spray and tear gas.

    Since we only care about the ratios, I'm pretty sure I can prolong these battles by equipping the pillow myself. My defense is high and what's ending the battles quickly is me going through his life in a few hits. I can always finish him with another weapon after using a pillow multiple times. The pillow is a good suggestion, even if only I use it.

    Other than the energy loss, the biggest drain with using an inactive is in time, waiting for his health to regenerate.
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    • 1945959 [1945959]
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    Posted on 04:31:12 - 28/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    Edited the original post with FIVE data sets and new formatting and information.
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    • magicBear [1515506]
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    Posted on 01:20:36 - 29/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    great!
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    • 1945959 [1945959]
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    Posted on 03:54:01 - 29/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    Edited original post with SEVEN data sets. I'm going to let it rest here for a bit, the results seem to be stabilizing. I might decide to add a section in the future on using a smoke grenade on a more powerful player.
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    • 1945959 [1945959]
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    Posted on 19:26:23 - 31/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    Mud [1740734]

    Great idea! I would suggest: 1. do about 10 attacks with no temps to establish a baseline. It's not the # of attacks, but # of turns attempting to hit ....try for like 100+. 2. then do about 10 attacks using each of the temps (pepper, flash, tear, smoke). You want to focus on # of turns where he attempts to hit you and count hit/miss for those. - don't bother with drug effects yet, they just adjust your stats, when really you want to see the effect of the temp on opponents stats. - I'm suggesting 10+ attacks 100+ turns b/c you will need enough to detect a difference in hit rate that isn't b/c of just random chance.
    Data started to settle out after seven iterations. I'm wondering though, would higher level players even use these? Don't you usually equip serotonin or melatonin? and does anyone ever use Epinephrine?
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    • 1945959 [1945959]
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    Posted on 19:27:40 - 31/01/16 (10 years ago)
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    MmM [256222]

    Temp weapons give you an enormous edge in battle, i have taken down people with 4bil easily with my 3bil stats. What i would really like to know about the temp weapons, does the Wielding Helmet really protects you from it. Item info: The Welding Helmet is a Defensive Armour. Designed to protect your eyes, head, and neck from flash burn while welding, this sturdy helmet can also deflect attacks with blunt instruments and pepper spray.
    I just saw the new armor, and I'd really like to try out the gas mask and other head coverings with the various temps. But I guess we're some distance from that yet.
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    • MmM [256222]
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    Posted on 08:14:59 - 01/02/16 (10 years ago)
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    MmM [256222]

    Temp weapons give you an enormous edge in battle, i have taken down people with 4bil easily with my 3bil stats. What i would really like to know about the temp weapons, does the Wielding Helmet really protects you from it. Item info: The Welding Helmet is a Defensive Armour. Designed to protect your eyes, head, and neck from flash burn while welding, this sturdy helmet can also deflect attacks with blunt instruments and pepper spray.

    1945959 [1945959]

    I just saw the new armor, and I'd really like to try out the gas mask and other head coverings with the various temps. But I guess we're some distance from that yet.
    I have the welding helmet

    check this log.

    http://www.torn.com/loader.php?sid=attackLog&ID=614af6291f68f7075a60b8a702a6dba6

    I dont know it says jmoislhluear sprayed Pepper Spray at MmM, but it was ineffective

    I buy a lot of cesium mail me ;)

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    • Ariegi [325313]
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    Posted on 08:53:34 - 01/02/16 (10 years ago)
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    MmM [256222]

    Temp weapons give you an enormous edge in battle, i have taken down people with 4bil easily with my 3bil stats. What i would really like to know about the temp weapons, does the Wielding Helmet really protects you from it. Item info: The Welding Helmet is a Defensive Armour. Designed to protect your eyes, head, and neck from flash burn while welding, this sturdy helmet can also deflect attacks with blunt instruments and pepper spray.

    1945959 [1945959]

    I just saw the new armor, and I'd really like to try out the gas mask and other head coverings with the various temps. But I guess we're some distance from that yet.

    MmM [256222]

    I have the welding helmet check this log. [url=http://www.torn.com/loader.php?sid=attackLog&ID=614af6291f68f7075a60b8a702a6dba6]http://www.torn.com/loader.php?sid=attackLog&ID=614af6291f68f7075a60b8a702a6dba6 [/url]I dont know it says [url=http://www.torn.com/profiles.php?XID=246024]jmoislhluear[/url] sprayed Pepper Spray at [url=http://www.torn.com/profiles.php?XID=256222]MmM[/url], but it was ineffective
    Smoke Grenade works on you anyway. It's just a protection against the Pepper Spray I suppose.
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