Gain Stats From Company Specials More Efficiently | Tutorials …

Gain Stats From Company Specials More Efficiently

    • nodelore [2786679]
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    Thread created on 13:50:13 - 07/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    Last replied 11:56:34 - 17/03/26 (4 months ago)
    Background
    Currently, there are four company speicals related to battle stats, which can be found in torn wiki:
    Furniture Store: 3* Heavy Lifting Special: About 4.5E worth of strength gains in your current gym per job point.
    Mining Corporation: 5* Rock Salt Special: About 4.5E worth of defense gains in your current gym per job point.
    Television Network: 10* Press Pass Special: (about .25% to a random stat.)
    Fitness Center: 5* Roid Rage Special: About 4.5E worth of strength gains in your current gym per job point.

    Besides, Logistics Management: 1* Efficiency: exchange for speed
    I used to save my job points to wait for opening gym with higher training ratio. However, recently one of my friends told me that he found he always gained nearly the same stats no matter which gym he stayed in.
    In a futher discussion, we found there are also posts discussing about the interesting problems, players have confirmed these ground truths[5* Mining special - Rock Salt]:
    1. The stats exchanged by job points are not affected by your active gym.
    2. The stats exchanged by job points are not affected by current happy.
    We can also infer that:
    1. The stats exchanged by job points are not affected by any other perks from private island, education or book reading.
    The problem left for us to answer is that: how can we estimate the stats gained by using job points?
    Should I use them as early as possible? Or should I firstly accumulate large stats due to the removal of gym cap last year in Patch#250:
    Applied this same system to the 4 stat-boosting Company specials so they can also utilize exponential growth
    That’s where we started. I collected these data from my friends with defense in a range between 10k to 2b.

    Methodology
    To compare the efficiency of the stats exchanging, we first need a uniform criteria.
    And here is the assumption:
    1. Set George’s as active gym, which has 7.3 training ratio for all stats and takes 10 energy for each train.
    2. Set default happiness to 5025.(According to Vladar’s training formula[Training Formula V2.0], the happiness means a lot to low stats, we will see its effect in the following)
    3. No other perks.
    Now we could calculate the energy worth for job points for different stats.
    Let us see an example:
    You used 1 job points on Rock Salt increasing your defense by 53.62 to 14,765.63
    In this case, we use 1 job points to increase 53.62 defense from 14712.01.
    In order to to calculate how much energy is worthy for these stats. We have a simple algorithm for it:
    1. Base on Valdar’s training simulator, we first fill in parameters and train one time.

    2. it is obviously 53.62 > 29.53, then we do the next train.
    3. After conducting the second train, we gain more stats than that exchanged by job points. So we calculate the percentage: (53.62-29.53)*10/29.54=8.15. That means we need 10+8.15=18.15E to gain 53.62 defense.
    4. Finally, we divide the point used for exchanging: 1JP=18.15/1=18.15E.
    Result
    WIth the algorithm, we conducted the analysis on other logs and the result is shown as below:

    Since the battle stats have a great range, we use log10 to shrink it. What can we find from the graph?
    1. When you have low stats, the stats exchange ratio can be extremely high.
    2. After 50m stats, the exchange ratio is going down and comes close to a constant value(nearly 1:4.53)
    You may wonder what will happen if we set happy as basic 100? Here is the result graph:
    The ratio for low stats becomes so high. It's natrual if you are familiar with valdar's formula: happiness is extremely important for low stats training.

    Corner Case
    1. What will happen to different stats? As is shown in Valdar's forumula, different stats have different modifier parameters. Besides, are there any differences between company specials?
    Thanks to data provided by colaman32[2091413], now we can calculate exchange ratio for different stats and company specials. Here are brief conclusion:
    • Different stats do not show differences in the exchange ratio.
    • At least for Logistics Management and Mining Corporation, we can assume they apply the same formula. We can further guess all company specials work in the same way.

    TL;DR
    Now we can answer our questions at the beginning.
    The exchange ratio for company specials in stats keeps growing low as your battle stats grow. We also gain some useful conclusion:
    • As a newbie with few cash and nearly zero stat, the company specials can help them grow actually fast. (I do not advertise for my company, it's full, lmao)
    • If you are in the company with specials to exchange stats, just use it as early as possible. No need to wait for higher stats. It's worthy and helpful.
    Besides, I also notice Army provides with the exchange for strength and defense. I simply calculate it base on some data collected from forum, and find out: the exchange ratio for Army is about half of companies for now. It should be affected by the rebuilding in Patch#250.

    Acknowledgement
    Much thanks to contr4l_[2893026] and zaiyiding[2722372], we have discussed together for this question. And lots of friends who provide with the detailed logs. Without their helps, I could not write out this tutorial.
    Thanks to advice from colaman32[2091413], I add the missing company specials to the post and validate the LM specials which use a similar forumula to Mine Corp.


    Opening Problems

    There are still problems remaining for us to answer:
    (1) Is there anyway to summarize accurate formula for job points exchanging?
    (2) Due to the rough analysis, I could not guarantee the precision absolutely. Will the conclusion still work over larger datasets?
    (3) Would the exchange ratio be affected by user's gym progress? Though active gym does not affect the ratio, what does a newbie could gain by the exchange?

    If you have any suggestions or questions, let us discuss about that :D

    Update History
    09/08/23
    1. Add LM to company specials list.
    2. Update extra 170 data points. (167 coming from a gradient usage of job points in Mine Corp and 3 comes from colaman32[2091413]).
    Last edited by nodelore on 12:50:29 - 08/09/23 (2 years ago)
    • HONGHOO [2792689]
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    Posted on 14:49:05 - 07/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    • oreoknight [2770462]
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    Posted on 14:51:05 - 07/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    thumb up, coin given, subscribe, everyday is Friday
    • zaiyiding [2722372]
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    Posted on 14:52:28 - 07/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    bump?my mining hiring
    • ColdLand [2819595]
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    Posted on 14:54:11 - 07/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    give me 50!
    Last edited by ColdLand on 14:55:02 - 07/09/23 (2 years ago)
    • contr4l_ [2893026]
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    Posted on 14:54:53 - 07/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    interesting conclusion, wish it help a lot.
    • LSP [2629889]
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    Posted on 14:55:04 - 07/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    bump, my Mining hiring too?
    • Uwwal [2992478]
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    Posted on 14:56:35 - 07/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    bump, his Mining hiring too?
    • Gontensii [2806650]
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    Posted on 14:57:49 - 07/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    bump, Uww's PSF hiring.
    • Marslanse [2989998]
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    Posted on 15:01:57 - 07/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    give me 50!
    • Private_Joker [2488283]
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    Posted on 15:03:40 - 07/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    Mate, this is T&G, not a company recruitment forum.
    Pls stop advertising for no reason, thanks
    • Dr_Phoenix [1601223]
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    Posted on 15:13:49 - 07/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    Edit

    I miss read the whole thread lol!
    Last edited by Dr_Phoenix on 15:14:20 - 07/09/23 (2 years ago)
    • masheen [2625139]
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    Posted on 17:27:19 - 07/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    The gym stat cap removal was also removed for companies, so in theory people should receive more stats if they use their job points down the line.

    So you want to save the jps to use them later.

    Not sure why your claim is otherwise?

    ◉_◉

    • Anomalousman [2534256]
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    Posted on 00:21:05 - 08/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    masheen [2625139]

    The gym stat cap removal was also removed for companies, so in theory people should receive more stats if they use their job points down the line. So you want to save the jps to use them later. Not sure why your claim is otherwise?
    I have no idea about this data, but the question is not how much your stats increase per JP (which does definitely go up over time), but how many days training a set of JP save you. If the above is correct, then JP are giving you effectively less days advantage the later you take them.
    The whole curve is exponential, but all activities push you along the same curve - just watch which combinations get you the furthest along the x-axis.

    Quids!

    • masheen [2625139]
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    Posted on 01:18:12 - 08/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    masheen [2625139]

    The gym stat cap removal was also removed for companies, so in theory people should receive more stats if they use their job points down the line. So you want to save the jps to use them later. Not sure why your claim is otherwise?

    Anomalousman [2534256]

    I have no idea about this data, but the question is not how much your stats increase per JP (which does definitely go up over time), but how many days training a set of JP save you. If the above is correct, then JP are giving you effectively less days advantage the later you take them. The whole curve is exponential, but all activities push you along the same curve - just watch which combinations get you the furthest along the x-axis.
    I fail to understand the math tbh

    To me this is like waiting to use SE's the later you do it the more benefit you see from each. I think that's where the perk shines, the way that by using them later, you will see a massive jump.

    ◉_◉

    • nodelore [2786679]
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    Posted on 02:05:44 - 08/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    masheen [2625139]

    The gym stat cap removal was also removed for companies, so in theory people should receive more stats if they use their job points down the line. So you want to save the jps to use them later. Not sure why your claim is otherwise?

    Anomalousman [2534256]

    I have no idea about this data, but the question is not how much your stats increase per JP (which does definitely go up over time), but how many days training a set of JP save you. If the above is correct, then JP are giving you effectively less days advantage the later you take them. The whole curve is exponential, but all activities push you along the same curve - just watch which combinations get you the furthest along the x-axis.

    masheen [2625139]

    I fail to understand the math tbh To me this is like waiting to use SE's the later you do it the more benefit you see from each. I think that's where the perk shines, the way that by using them later, you will see a massive jump.
    That's the point. Since the removal of cap, the players with much higher stats can also benefit from Gym. So we can calculate the Energy per job point and compare that among players with different levels of stats. What we have seen is that the players with low stats can gain more relative improvement than players with high stats.

    We have an example here. A player with 2.6b stats needs to spend 162 points to increase 1% defense(2.6m). And a player with 14k stats only needs to spend 3 points for 1% improvement. The efficiency of low stat players could be multiple times more than high stat players.
    • Anomalousman [2534256]
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    Posted on 05:32:28 - 08/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    FAQ: But don't you get more stats from the JP later?

    A: Yes, but "later" means you're spending energy first and then JP. You also get more stats from spending your energy later, so you have to check whether those two balance.


    Explanation:
    The easy way to do the math is convert every stat boost to a number of days training. A certain amount of E is a certain amount of day's training. Things that give you E can be converted into getting a certain number of days ahead on the curve.

    Boosts to stats other than E can be converted to days as well, but will typically be a different number of days depending on your battle stats.

    e.g. One million flat bonus to stats might be worth months for a newbie, or ~4 hours mid-game.

    or: A stat enhancer might be worth two hours to a newbie, or two weeks late game.

    JP now give exponential gains, but if they scale differently with battle stats than energy, then we need to check when to use them. Seems they are worth extra days early on compared to later.

    Quids!

    • Fermion [2691036]
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    Posted on 12:08:16 - 08/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    Bogie once commented in a reddit post with the approximate gains for companies and army. This was pre stat cap removal

    Starter jobs (army) give 0.014% per job point up to a cap of 7,000 per point.


    Company jobs give 0.02% per job point, up to a cap of 10,000 per point - additionally you also gain +1 per point for every 500 happiness you have.

    f0bc32cd-df0a-470c-862f-0d96df1c1af3-2691036.png

    • nodelore [2786679]
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    Posted on 12:59:25 - 08/09/23 (2 years ago)
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    Fermion [2691036]

    Bogie once commented in a reddit post with the approximate gains for companies and army. This was pre stat cap removal Starter jobs (army) give 0.014% per job point up to a cap of 7,000 per point. Company jobs give 0.02% per job point, up to a cap of 10,000 per point - additionally you also gain +1 per point for every 500 happiness you have.
    Thanks for the additional information.

    Sadly the Patch#250 has changed everything. Players in Army used to spend 1000 points to grow their stats from nearly zero to 1m, which enables them to skip early stage low training efficiency. However, after the rebuilding, they can only gain 30k at 100k stats in total.
    19:04:12 - 04/09/22 You used 1,013 / 1,013 job points on Bear the brunt (Army) increasing your defense by 37,695.58 to 138,101.24
    ——FROM Erazer_1905[2659066]

    Besides, we can easily prove the stats gained from company specials now are not affected by current happiness.(According to the post)
    • YOXXX [4029303]
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    Posted on 06:49:05 - 04/01/26 (6 months ago)
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    exactly the math i need,thank for the information

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