NeoRobinFox [2862125]

How did dying on a cross save us?

Latinobull14 [2881384]

So the gospel is that we as humans are sinful creatures and deserve death. Sin is referring to things that go against the word of God. Lying, sex before marriage, getting drunk, pride, etc. We all fall short. Instead of us dying for our sins, Jesus came down in human form and took the punishment for our sins by dying for us on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice so we can have a second chance at redemption. This symbolizes the grace of God towards us and us being able to avoid that death if we turn to God.

Now to get a bit historical on it, before Jesus to be atoned or cleaned from your sins, it required a blood sacrifice of an animal due to the law of Jewish tradition. Don't remember all the criteria but it had to be blameless and clean to be sacrificed. Jesus, being revealed as a man who never sinned and being 100% God while being 100% man was the ultimate sacrifice due to the clean and blameless life that he lived.

Kasto [2151656]

This seems like a weak try of conversion.

They are evolving. They don't hit our doors anymore to talk about Jesus. They are playing games and sneak in the forum to try to convert people.

Kasto [2151656]

This seems like a weak try of conversion.

They are evolving. They don't hit our doors anymore to talk about Jesus. They are playing games and sneak in the forum to try to convert people.

Bumfluff [969606]

You don’t need to click on the thread if it doesn’t interest you

EverleighRaven [2949890]

So I'm not Christian, and I don't mean to offend anybody with this, but I feel it is wrong for someone completely innocent, such as Jesus in this case, to be punished, tortured, and killed for my wrongdoings, which are completely MY fault, while I get to escape punishment and get a free ticket to heaven. I feel that accepting such a deal is wrong and unjust, because in no other case, such as through the justice system, is it right or legal or acceptable to scapegoat somebody like this. How do Christians who have accepted the salvation of Jesus feel about this?

NeoRobinFox [2862125]

How did dying on a cross save us?

Latinobull14 [2881384]

So the gospel is that we as humans are sinful creatures and deserve death. Sin is referring to things that go against the word of God. Lying, sex before marriage, getting drunk, pride, etc. We all fall short. Instead of us dying for our sins, Jesus came down in human form and took the punishment for our sins by dying for us on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice so we can have a second chance at redemption. This symbolizes the grace of God towards us and us being able to avoid that death if we turn to God.

Now to get a bit historical on it, before Jesus to be atoned or cleaned from your sins, it required a blood sacrifice of an animal due to the law of Jewish tradition. Don't remember all the criteria but it had to be blameless and clean to be sacrificed. Jesus, being revealed as a man who never sinned and being 100% God while being 100% man was the ultimate sacrifice due to the clean and blameless life that he lived.

Nexus [105937]

Yeah the logic inconsistencies continue.

Why did God "need" to do anything, he could've just waved his hand and removed the "sin" HE attached to our species in the first place.

The sin itself being wildly irrational, as explained in my previous post.

EverleighRaven [2949890]

So I'm not Christian, and I don't mean to offend anybody with this, but I feel it is wrong for someone completely innocent, such as Jesus in this case, to be punished, tortured, and killed for my wrongdoings, which are completely MY fault, while I get to escape punishment and get a free ticket to heaven. I feel that accepting such a deal is wrong and unjust, because in no other case, such as through the justice system, is it right or legal or acceptable to scapegoat somebody like this. How do Christians who have accepted the salvation of Jesus feel about this?

Steppenwulf [2960257]

Actually, when the law requires a fine, it's perfectly acceptable for someone else to pay the fine on one's behalf.

broleaf [3140943]

modernity vs christianity
what sets modernity apart from christianity the acceptance of a genuine personal authority submission to the father recognition that authority exists in father-figures from patriarchs to the fathers of nations, and to ultimately god the father and secondly christianity is the recognition that man must understand the world through a certain structure because we use language and signs and narratives to form thoughts the buddhist idea that all such structures can be detached from is the opposite of the christian view and so instead christianity puts forth that we can understand the world through the word of god rather than through our own interpretations that we can just infinitely reconstruct gnosis, the scientific rationality, further social reforms etc at the expense of the tradition

NeoRobinFox [2862125]

How did dying on a cross save us?

Latinobull14 [2881384]

So the gospel is that we as humans are sinful creatures and deserve death. Sin is referring to things that go against the word of God. Lying, sex before marriage, getting drunk, pride, etc. We all fall short. Instead of us dying for our sins, Jesus came down in human form and took the punishment for our sins by dying for us on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice so we can have a second chance at redemption. This symbolizes the grace of God towards us and us being able to avoid that death if we turn to God.

Now to get a bit historical on it, before Jesus to be atoned or cleaned from your sins, it required a blood sacrifice of an animal due to the law of Jewish tradition. Don't remember all the criteria but it had to be blameless and clean to be sacrificed. Jesus, being revealed as a man who never sinned and being 100% God while being 100% man was the ultimate sacrifice due to the clean and blameless life that he lived.

Nexus [105937]

Yeah the logic inconsistencies continue.

Why did God "need" to do anything, he could've just waved his hand and removed the "sin" HE attached to our species in the first place.

The sin itself being wildly irrational, as explained in my previous post.

Latinobull14 [2881384]

I never used the word need. God didn't need to save us from sin. God doesn't need humans, he is eternal and creator and does what he finds as just. I can't answer the question of why God created us because he is eternal, he doesn't need us. Bible speaks about he created us to reign over the animals on the earth, but then the question is why create animals? We will not always understand why. But I can say through creating us God has a love for us.

I wouldn't call it a logic inconsistency because that would make it a contradiction. I think it requires a deeper answer. Again what is sin? It's actions that go against the desires of God. So if God removes "sin" or removes the ability for people to do the actions they want to do, what do we have? We have people who are forced to live a certain way. This isn't love, that's robots.

God created free will and saw that free will is good. The analogy I heard to solidify your knowledge on this topic goes like this:
"God created us to have free will, but we are responsible for what we do in that free will".

If God removes our ability to sin, he removes free will. He wants people who truly want to serve him and who consciously make a choice to worship and serve him. Remove that free will and you are forced to worship him, which doesn't sound like love to me.

EverleighRaven [2949890]

I really agree with what you are saying here. Free will and freedom is one of the best things I have in my life, and I am glad that God gave us the ability to choose our own destiny.

NeoRobinFox [2862125]

How did dying on a cross save us?

Latinobull14 [2881384]

So the gospel is that we as humans are sinful creatures and deserve death. Sin is referring to things that go against the word of God. Lying, sex before marriage, getting drunk, pride, etc. We all fall short. Instead of us dying for our sins, Jesus came down in human form and took the punishment for our sins by dying for us on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice so we can have a second chance at redemption. This symbolizes the grace of God towards us and us being able to avoid that death if we turn to God.

Now to get a bit historical on it, before Jesus to be atoned or cleaned from your sins, it required a blood sacrifice of an animal due to the law of Jewish tradition. Don't remember all the criteria but it had to be blameless and clean to be sacrificed. Jesus, being revealed as a man who never sinned and being 100% God while being 100% man was the ultimate sacrifice due to the clean and blameless life that he lived.

EverleighRaven [2949890]

I really agree with what you are saying here. Free will and freedom is one of the best things I have in my life, and I am glad that God gave us the ability to choose our own destiny.

Kasto [2151656]

Yes a 2 years old dying from cancer or insert any other illness here, had the freedom to choose its own destiny.

A Palestinian kid that died from a bomb at 1 years old age or even months, had the freedom to do whatever it wanted.

Latinobull14 [2881384]

It's me again!

Not gonna lie, I genuinely enjoyed the conversation that I had in my previous post and wanted to extend the topic to a singular topic which is Jesus. This is the foundation of the Christian beliefs, (at least it should be). With that, there are different arguments involving Jesus whether he was only a prophet, not a God, he didn't exist, etc.

Let's talk about it. Let's have a conversation about it and feel free to question my belief.

My Belief:
Jesus is the Son of God who came down to heaven in human form to save us from our sins by dying on the cross for us. He then resurrected after 3 days and after addressing his disciples in his resurrected form, he ascended to heaven. Jesus himself is God but separate from God the father.

AMA
Edit: Edited my belief portion as my wording made it seem like Jesus isn't God but only the son of God and not God himself.

UPDATE Been MIA had life things happen lol but I will get around to answering everyone points when available

EverleighRaven [2949890]

So I'm not Christian, and I don't mean to offend anybody with this, but I feel it is wrong for someone completely innocent, such as Jesus in this case, to be punished, tortured, and killed for my wrongdoings, which are completely MY fault, while I get to escape punishment and get a free ticket to heaven. I feel that accepting such a deal is wrong and unjust, because in no other case, such as through the justice system, is it right or legal or acceptable to scapegoat somebody like this. How do Christians who have accepted the salvation of Jesus feel about this?

Latinobull14 [2881384]

Nothing offensive about this. Everything you say is right, it's completely unfair for someone to die and take the sins of the world for us even though the person who died and suffered did nothing wrong.

As a Christian myself, I am grateful for what he did for me because I don't deserve it. I live a life to make sure that I don't let his death be in vain by following his teachings and doing my best to be a better Christian.

Next question, what is a better Christian?

Someone who recognizes that they are a sinner and deserve death and going through life with the intent of following the words of the bible and listening to the commands of Jesus. Being reborn is more than just accepting Jesus died on the cross, but living a life that follows his teachings. Not committing adultery, not getting drunk etc. Are you going to be perfect, no. I'm the farthest from perfect. But every day I try to draw closer to God and turn away from sin.

Sweeney_Todd [27468]

I prefered his older brother that collected honey, Besus...

EverleighRaven [2949890]

I really agree with what you are saying here. Free will and freedom is one of the best things I have in my life, and I am glad that God gave us the ability to choose our own destiny.

Kasto [2151656]

Yes a 2 years old dying from cancer or insert any other illness here, had the freedom to choose its own destiny.

A Palestinian kid that died from a bomb at 1 years old age or even months, had the freedom to do whatever it wanted.

EverleighRaven [2949890]

Like people, unfortunately in this world, have the freedom to go kill people, but they need to be held responsible for their actions to keep people from doing that. Also I guess that not everybody has the ability to choose their own destiny, like how nobody chooses to get sick or get cancer, but we still, to a large extent, have free will, even though a lot of the times we still suffer, and things don't go our way. The world, where free will is allowed, is still very different from a world where we are forced or programmed to worship God, which I think is the point that Latinobull14 is trying to make. Like we still have free will when we are alive, even though bad things do happen to people and people do die in very terrible and tragic ways.