Steppenwulf [2960257]

Violence [2603171]

Stepped in shite trying to find a trite answer for adult questions again.


After death nothing magical happens. No sky daddy pulling back the curtain to say ta da! Your shitty little life Did have meaning! You weren't as insignificant as a flea.

What does happen is that the meatbag your consciousness inhabits begins to rot. This releases the energy held within it.
A few people who knew you will be relieved of your existence, if you managed to not be a total shit head then perhaps a few might mourn you for a bit.

Then life moves on, you are forgotten like everyone is eventually. Some of your unremarkable dna swishes about but it's the same dna everyone has so nothing remarkable there.

Nothing interesting nothing magical and no consciousness in any form after death.


Just like everyone you are completely insignificant.

ElHeffe [2564022]

They're not good at this, are they?

Steppenwulf [2960257]

Violence [2603171]

Stepped in shite trying to find a trite answer for adult questions again.


After death nothing magical happens. No sky daddy pulling back the curtain to say ta da! Your shitty little life Did have meaning! You weren't as insignificant as a flea.

What does happen is that the meatbag your consciousness inhabits begins to rot. This releases the energy held within it.
A few people who knew you will be relieved of your existence, if you managed to not be a total shit head then perhaps a few might mourn you for a bit.

Then life moves on, you are forgotten like everyone is eventually. Some of your unremarkable dna swishes about but it's the same dna everyone has so nothing remarkable there.

Nothing interesting nothing magical and no consciousness in any form after death.


Just like everyone you are completely insignificant.

Steppenwulf [2960257]

Violence [2603171]

Stepped in shite trying to find a trite answer for adult questions again.


After death nothing magical happens. No sky daddy pulling back the curtain to say ta da! Your shitty little life Did have meaning! You weren't as insignificant as a flea.

What does happen is that the meatbag your consciousness inhabits begins to rot. This releases the energy held within it.
A few people who knew you will be relieved of your existence, if you managed to not be a total shit head then perhaps a few might mourn you for a bit.

Then life moves on, you are forgotten like everyone is eventually. Some of your unremarkable dna swishes about but it's the same dna everyone has so nothing remarkable there.

Nothing interesting nothing magical and no consciousness in any form after death.


Just like everyone you are completely insignificant.

Steppenwulf [2960257]

If nothing matters in the end, then why do you bother with the forums?

Melchizedek7 [3166898]

Out of curiosity, why do you care what happens to your children?

I assume you are an atheist since you posit there is no God...if I am mistaken I apologize.

If I am correct and you are an atheist, then you believe that nothing is ordered, there is no ultimate good or evil, we are all just space junk bouncing into more space junk, right?

Since that is your world view how can you have any moral consideration for your children? As there is no good, no evil, nothing matters... it's all random accidents with nothing more than chaos all around.... according to your world view it doesn't matter if your children lead profitable, decent lives or if they are ****d and murdered tomorrow ...you have to borrow from my world view to say that your children deserve happiness, that **** and murder is bad.

If your going to be an atheist, be an atheist and stop borrowing from my world view , where kindness, decency and love matter.

Why does John 1 matter? Because is part of God's word, and the gospel that can save your mortal soul, that is worth saving, and that Christ loved enough to be willing to die for your sins, so that you and your beloved children could find eternal peace and love in Him .

Melchizedek7 [3166898]

Out of curiosity, why do you care what happens to your children?

I assume you are an atheist since you posit there is no God...if I am mistaken I apologize.

If I am correct and you are an atheist, then you believe that nothing is ordered, there is no ultimate good or evil, we are all just space junk bouncing into more space junk, right?

Since that is your world view how can you have any moral consideration for your children? As there is no good, no evil, nothing matters... it's all random accidents with nothing more than chaos all around.... according to your world view it doesn't matter if your children lead profitable, decent lives or if they are ****d and murdered tomorrow ...you have to borrow from my world view to say that your children deserve happiness, that **** and murder is bad.

If your going to be an atheist, be an atheist and stop borrowing from my world view , where kindness, decency and love matter.

Why does John 1 matter? Because is part of God's word, and the gospel that can save your mortal soul, that is worth saving, and that Christ loved enough to be willing to die for your sins, so that you and your beloved children could find eternal peace and love in Him .

Melchizedek7 [3166898]

Out of curiosity, why do you care what happens to your children?

I assume you are an atheist since you posit there is no God...if I am mistaken I apologize.

If I am correct and you are an atheist, then you believe that nothing is ordered, there is no ultimate good or evil, we are all just space junk bouncing into more space junk, right?

Since that is your world view how can you have any moral consideration for your children? As there is no good, no evil, nothing matters... it's all random accidents with nothing more than chaos all around.... according to your world view it doesn't matter if your children lead profitable, decent lives or if they are ****d and murdered tomorrow ...you have to borrow from my world view to say that your children deserve happiness, that **** and murder is bad.

If your going to be an atheist, be an atheist and stop borrowing from my world view , where kindness, decency and love matter.

Why does John 1 matter? Because is part of God's word, and the gospel that can save your mortal soul, that is worth saving, and that Christ loved enough to be willing to die for your sins, so that you and your beloved children could find eternal peace and love in Him .

Melchizedek7 [3166898]

Out of curiosity, why do you care what happens to your children?

I assume you are an atheist since you posit there is no God...if I am mistaken I apologize.

If I am correct and you are an atheist, then you believe that nothing is ordered, there is no ultimate good or evil, we are all just space junk bouncing into more space junk, right?

Since that is your world view how can you have any moral consideration for your children? As there is no good, no evil, nothing matters... it's all random accidents with nothing more than chaos all around.... according to your world view it doesn't matter if your children lead profitable, decent lives or if they are ****d and murdered tomorrow ...you have to borrow from my world view to say that your children deserve happiness, that **** and murder is bad.

If your going to be an atheist, be an atheist and stop borrowing from my world view , where kindness, decency and love matter.

Why does John 1 matter? Because is part of God's word, and the gospel that can save your mortal soul, that is worth saving, and that Christ loved enough to be willing to die for your sins, so that you and your beloved children could find eternal peace and love in Him .

ElHeffe [2564022]

Would you like some more straw for the man you're fighting?

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to tell a child that they are born broken, having inherited some imaginary "sin" just for the crime of exiting. And that the solution to this "problem" is to follow the dictates of an insane and capricious god who has constructed a big pit of darkness and pain to throw you into for all eternity if you don't do what you're told.

Personally, I think that's unhealthy.

Oh and your reference to John 1 is just circular reasoning...
"It's not my logic, it's God's logic as written in the Bible, every word of which is true and we know every word is true because the Bible says that the Bible is true and if you remember for earlier in this sentence, every word of the Bible is true"

Melchizedek7 [3166898]

Out of curiosity, why do you care what happens to your children?

I assume you are an atheist since you posit there is no God...if I am mistaken I apologize.

If I am correct and you are an atheist, then you believe that nothing is ordered, there is no ultimate good or evil, we are all just space junk bouncing into more space junk, right?

Since that is your world view how can you have any moral consideration for your children? As there is no good, no evil, nothing matters... it's all random accidents with nothing more than chaos all around.... according to your world view it doesn't matter if your children lead profitable, decent lives or if they are ****d and murdered tomorrow ...you have to borrow from my world view to say that your children deserve happiness, that **** and murder is bad.

If your going to be an atheist, be an atheist and stop borrowing from my world view , where kindness, decency and love matter.

Why does John 1 matter? Because is part of God's word, and the gospel that can save your mortal soul, that is worth saving, and that Christ loved enough to be willing to die for your sins, so that you and your beloved children could find eternal peace and love in Him .

Violence [2603171]

Guff. More guff and some claggies

Melchizedek7 [3166898]

Out of curiosity, why do you care what happens to your children?

I assume you are an atheist since you posit there is no God...if I am mistaken I apologize.

If I am correct and you are an atheist, then you believe that nothing is ordered, there is no ultimate good or evil, we are all just space junk bouncing into more space junk, right?

Since that is your world view how can you have any moral consideration for your children? As there is no good, no evil, nothing matters... it's all random accidents with nothing more than chaos all around.... according to your world view it doesn't matter if your children lead profitable, decent lives or if they are ****d and murdered tomorrow ...you have to borrow from my world view to say that your children deserve happiness, that **** and murder is bad.

If your going to be an atheist, be an atheist and stop borrowing from my world view , where kindness, decency and love matter.

Why does John 1 matter? Because is part of God's word, and the gospel that can save your mortal soul, that is worth saving, and that Christ loved enough to be willing to die for your sins, so that you and your beloved children could find eternal peace and love in Him .

ElHeffe [2564022]

Would you like some more straw for the man you're fighting?

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to tell a child that they are born broken, having inherited some imaginary "sin" just for the crime of exiting. And that the solution to this "problem" is to follow the dictates of an insane and capricious god who has constructed a big pit of darkness and pain to throw you into for all eternity if you don't do what you're told.

Personally, I think that's unhealthy.

Oh and your reference to John 1 is just circular reasoning...
"It's not my logic, it's God's logic as written in the Bible, every word of which is true and we know every word is true because the Bible says that the Bible is true and if you remember for earlier in this sentence, every word of the Bible is true"

Strand [2821241]

Oh hey, speaking of straw-manning! Have you noticed that you bring up hell more than the Christians on this thread do? And you seem to also think that God chooses which people to send there and which to allow to enter Heaven. Maybe you've been listening to Calvinists and then assuming all Christians also believe in predetermination, but relatively few Christians ascribe to that belief.

Hell is simple. It's the complete absence of God. A person can choose to either get closer to God in this lifetime or push him away, and that's how you get to one place or the other. Obviously being completely away from God is absolutely miserable, because God is everything good and joyful and being utterly removed from that is painful. That's why God doesn't want people to go there, but he'll also follow his own rules and respect people's choices who decide to go there anyway.

Most Christians believe that God is extremely merciful and will use any excuse someone gives him to whisk people away to heaven. I've given you some recommendations for reading before, so I'll add CS Lewis's Screwtape Letters to that list, and also Brideshead Revisited by Evelyn Waugh. Great tales about redemption that are entertaining in their own right, from a time when Christians still knew how to write without being preachy.

Melchizedek7 [3166898]

Out of curiosity, why do you care what happens to your children?

I assume you are an atheist since you posit there is no God...if I am mistaken I apologize.

If I am correct and you are an atheist, then you believe that nothing is ordered, there is no ultimate good or evil, we are all just space junk bouncing into more space junk, right?

Since that is your world view how can you have any moral consideration for your children? As there is no good, no evil, nothing matters... it's all random accidents with nothing more than chaos all around.... according to your world view it doesn't matter if your children lead profitable, decent lives or if they are ****d and murdered tomorrow ...you have to borrow from my world view to say that your children deserve happiness, that **** and murder is bad.

If your going to be an atheist, be an atheist and stop borrowing from my world view , where kindness, decency and love matter.

Why does John 1 matter? Because is part of God's word, and the gospel that can save your mortal soul, that is worth saving, and that Christ loved enough to be willing to die for your sins, so that you and your beloved children could find eternal peace and love in Him .

Violence [2603171]

Guff. More guff and some claggies

Strand [2821241]

As long as you're reminding Christians of where a lot of their traditions and festivals come from, I'd like to remind you where your selfless and prosocial virtues come from as well, which weren't so common in the pagan, pre-Christian world.

Also, I don't know how the "cobbling together" that you refer to somehow negates anything about Christianity. Every religion has some sliver of truth, some moreso than others. The Easter celebration was centered around fertility and new life? Hey, great! We can work with that. The Christian God is responsible for creating life, so that fits.

EDIT:

Remember where all art used to come from and be ordered to, also. The art considered timeless and influential.
I'm discouraged about the state of Christian music and movies nowadays, but I know we'll figure it out. Meanwhile, we've got secular artists creating pretty wonderful stuff wrestling with God and religion for us to enjoy. Martin Scorcese, Terrence Mallick, Denis Villeneuve, to name a few directors...U2, Sufjan Stevens, Vampire Weekend for music artists, and even the Beatles kept verging into the spiritual. Seems like secularists have a hard time getting away from the divine.

Oh, and maybe it's a shame your sons use condoms! I would think you would want them to bring other conscientious individuals like yourself into the world? If it keeps on this way, there'll only be Christians and Muslims having kids in a generation or two.

Melchizedek7 [3166898]

One Christian to another...you're forgetting about natural law in your response. There were moral pagans before Christianity (Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Confucius).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May I kindly point out that the natural law stems from God, and does preexist all of the pagans, all of the cultures, and all of the philosophers?

Natural law doesn't preexist because humans used it prior to Christianity, it exists because the Creator created it and instilled it into His creation.

Melchizedek7 [3166898]

Out of curiosity, why do you care what happens to your children?

I assume you are an atheist since you posit there is no God...if I am mistaken I apologize.

If I am correct and you are an atheist, then you believe that nothing is ordered, there is no ultimate good or evil, we are all just space junk bouncing into more space junk, right?

Since that is your world view how can you have any moral consideration for your children? As there is no good, no evil, nothing matters... it's all random accidents with nothing more than chaos all around.... according to your world view it doesn't matter if your children lead profitable, decent lives or if they are ****d and murdered tomorrow ...you have to borrow from my world view to say that your children deserve happiness, that **** and murder is bad.

If your going to be an atheist, be an atheist and stop borrowing from my world view , where kindness, decency and love matter.

Why does John 1 matter? Because is part of God's word, and the gospel that can save your mortal soul, that is worth saving, and that Christ loved enough to be willing to die for your sins, so that you and your beloved children could find eternal peace and love in Him .

ElHeffe [2564022]

Would you like some more straw for the man you're fighting?

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to tell a child that they are born broken, having inherited some imaginary "sin" just for the crime of exiting. And that the solution to this "problem" is to follow the dictates of an insane and capricious god who has constructed a big pit of darkness and pain to throw you into for all eternity if you don't do what you're told.

Personally, I think that's unhealthy.

Oh and your reference to John 1 is just circular reasoning...
"It's not my logic, it's God's logic as written in the Bible, every word of which is true and we know every word is true because the Bible says that the Bible is true and if you remember for earlier in this sentence, every word of the Bible is true"

Strand [2821241]

Oh hey, speaking of straw-manning! Have you noticed that you bring up hell more than the Christians on this thread do? And you seem to also think that God chooses which people to send there and which to allow to enter Heaven. Maybe you've been listening to Calvinists and then assuming all Christians also believe in predetermination, but relatively few Christians ascribe to that belief.

Hell is simple. It's the complete absence of God. A person can choose to either get closer to God in this lifetime or push him away, and that's how you get to one place or the other. Obviously being completely away from God is absolutely miserable, because God is everything good and joyful and being utterly removed from that is painful. That's why God doesn't want people to go there, but he'll also follow his own rules and respect people's choices who decide to go there anyway.

Most Christians believe that God is extremely merciful and will use any excuse someone gives him to whisk people away to heaven. I've given you some recommendations for reading before, so I'll add CS Lewis's Screwtape Letters to that list, and also Brideshead Revisited by Evelyn Waugh. Great tales about redemption that are entertaining in their own right, from a time when Christians still knew how to write without being preachy.

ElHeffe [2564022]

Yes. If you are correct, then it is God and God alone who sets the conditions by which one enters the Kingdom of Heaven. And it is Him and Him alone who decides if I am convinced of His existence. If your God wants to gaslight me, so be it. But ultimately, it's all on Him.

But do you deny the existence of Hell? Did Jesus not say “His winnowing fork is in His hand to thoroughly clear His threshing floor, and to gather the wheat into His barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” Maybe "unquenchable fire" means something different to you that it does to me.