I Believe Jesus is God. Ask Me Anything! - Page 6 | General No…
I Believe Jesus is God. Ask Me Anything!
    • Latinobull14 [2881384]
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    Posted on 21:46:04 - 21/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    Madgod [1733719]

    I'll be honest, my actual belief on Jesus is this, and I hope it doesn't offend, but I know that those who are more serious in their Christian beliefs may find it offensive. I believe basically his mother rather than admitting to adultery claimed that it was an act of God, and somehow they convinced a bunch of people that this was true. Jesus, born into a probably broken family, turned to religion and became a preacher since he had the prior credentials of being the son of God.

    I'm not an atheist, but my view on God is that he is essentially the universe (or maybe, the universe is just one component of something bigger), and that in the same way we don't care for the life and death cycle of the skin cells on our body, same too would such a thing, if it was even conscious, care about the happenings on Earth.

    I view religious texts as being a way to get a populous paranoid of extinction onto the same page, and as more a collection of fables. I think it was a necessary and beneficial thing historically, and that it could still provide some benefits today, but for me personally, I would need a modernized religion who shares similar beliefs as myself, which I've yet to find. I think someone can be religious without being a part of any named religion and practice their religion on their own.

    I think such a modernized religion could be beneficial for building closer knit communities, as I feel we've become very disconnected in that regard.

    Also, you should consider moving this thread to the Politics & Law subforum as it may yield more active discussion

    SaintLuke [2220265]

    I personally feel as long as you do your best to live the best life and treat people as well as you can. That is all that really matters in the end. I have read the 3 main books (the Bible, Torah, and the Quran), and that is the main quality they all preach in my opinion. I know they all have violence and whatnot, but I tend to try and ignore that and focus on the positives and live my life that way. I know I have failed many times; hell, folks in Torn have seen me be pretty nasty, unfortunately. I just hope I'm forgiven by them in the end.
    That's a good way to think but what is it to "live the best life"? Each of these books has its interpretation of what the best life is.

    Torah - Follow all the 600+ laws that were given in the Old Testament
    Bible - Accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and follow the teachings of the Bible
    Quran - Follow the teaches of the Quran and do good deeds

    Now the Quran and the Bible have very similar teachings and there are some things that Mohammed said that I agree with. He said to be good to your parents and help the poor and I agree with that. What I don't agree with is the life Mohammed lived, the teachings of marriage, and the uncertainty of the Quran. This is what causes me to not believe the Quran.

    In
    Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 87, Hadith Number 145

    Um Al-‘Ala an Ansari woman who had given the Pledge of allegiance to Allah’s Apostle said, “‘Uthman bin Maz’un came in our share when the Ansars drew lots to distribute the emigrants (to dwell) among themselves, He became sick and we looked after (nursed) him till he died. Then we shrouded him in his clothes. Allah’s Apostle came to us, I (addressing the dead body) said, “May Allah’s Mercy be on you, O Aba As-Sa’ib! I testify that Allah has honored you.” The Prophet said, ‘How do you know that?’ I replied, ‘
    I do not know, by Allah.’ He said, ‘As for him, death has come to him and I wish him all good from Allah. By Allah, though I am Allah’s Apostle, I neither know what will happen to me, nor to you.'”
    Um Al-‘Ala said, “By Allah, I will never attest the righteousness of anybody after that.” She added, “Later I saw in a dream, a flowing spring for ‘Uthman. So I went to Allah’s Apostle and mentioned that to him. He said, ‘That is (the symbol of) his good deeds (the reward for) which is going on for him.'”

    Regardless of what life you live, you won't know if you make it to heaven or in the Muslim's case Jannah until you meet God or Allah.

    Jesus gave solidified knowledge on what takes us to heaven in several verses

    I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” John 6:51

    Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24

    There are more reasons why I believe the teachings of Jesus over other main religions. But forgiveness and change can happen now. The Christian faith is we sinned but forgiveness and repentance can happen now, it doesn't have to wait until death. Jesus died for us so we can be forgiven and turn away from our sins.
    • Latinobull14 [2881384]
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    Posted on 21:56:29 - 21/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    Yeah, so people would do whatever in what they believe to be true. In America, there have been cults in the past and these cult leaders would convince their followers to kill themselves for the cult leaders because of whatever reason. The followers of the cult believe that the leader is the truth, mainly through manipulation and other means, and in doing so do what he said because in their mind it's true or right.

    Now with religion, there are very few times when God calls a nation to overthrow another nation in his name. There are a few examples of that in the Old Testament but there is a reason. For example in Deuteronomy, God calls Israel to destroy and in simple terms wipe out the Canaanites. Why would God order that? The Canaanites were doing very wicked things. To name a few, child sacrifice, homosexuality, bestiality, worshipping idols etc. They had been doing this for generations and God couldn't allow this wickedness to happen so he brought so called the Israelites to destroy them.

    Now after Jesus, I can't speak for every war because I don't know the background and historical context of every war. But what I can say is that people who use Christianity or God's name to justify power, money, or fame unjustly are wrong. There have been many wars in which people used Christianity as the reason but it was mainly for power or money. Those were wrong and those who claimed to be Christian who started the war were wrong.

    Christianity isn't just a title you add to your name and you are a Christian. Christianity is a way of life and true Christians aren't Christians by what they say but are Christians by what they do. Not that they are perfect because from the pastor to a child all sin and fall short. But they overall life and actions in their life should reflect God.

    Ata [2507441]

    Good answer overall. I would like to focus my reply on this paragraph:

    Christianity isn't just a title you add to your name and you are a Christian. Christianity is a way of life and true Christians aren't Christians by what they say but are Christians by what they do. Not that they are perfect because from the pastor to a child all sin and fall short. But they overall life and actions in their life should reflect God.
    My strong belief is that religion is just another way how to control the people and do what you want them to do (wage wars, etc). Yes, most religions (plural) claim to be peaceful, and those people who actually behave in such way I admire deeply. Sadly, that's often not the case.

    Take child upbringing as an example. There are huge and heated debates about abortion and how every life is sacred yada yada, but when a child is born, those same people who become parents then neglect their own children in unimaginable ways. Physical, sexual and psychological abuse is rampant in people who claim they are "good christians". If child is a girl, they get additional abuse.

    In my community I support so-caled "child village" for children who were abandoned and/or neglected by their parents. That means they are not orphans, but parents cannot look after their own kids, that's usually the case when parents are drug addicts, alchoholics, imprisoned, have mental problems etc, the list is endless. It breaks my heart to see how many kids do not have a proper family.
    Yeah and sadly I agree with that. In the current world we live in, the origin of religion isn't love or helping instead, religion is used for power and money. But it is also used as a cover-up or a fallback for their lives. People live how they want and they say oh I'm a Christian, I've been forgiven. But repentance isn't just asking for forgiveness but turning away from what you need forgiveness from.

    If I throw a ball at your face, and I apologize but I throw the ball back in your face 2 minutes later, I ask for forgiveness, but I'm not changing my ways. This is why a lot of the time I don't promote religion but I promote Jesus because religion as a whole has been used negatively compared to its origins. But Jesus has not changed through the years.
    • Caisa [2879996]
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    Posted on 22:02:41 - 21/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    To believe there is no God is also a belief. Even agnosticism is a sort of belief. The usual alternative to following a religion (such as Christianity, etc) is to follow the conventions of popular culture (which is in some senses of the word a faith) or to follow the ideas of science (which bases itself on many unproven assumptions at many points-- which yield the hard problem of where human consciousness comes from).

    But mostly which set of beliefs to follow are not a logical choice -- nor should they be that.

    The notion that from time to time we should remember to look at the things around us with a sense of wonder, that there are things to be thankful for even when life sucks, that what we do matters -- these are all religious sorts of ideas which tend to anchor me and which I find worthwhile giving credence to....
    • SaintLuke [2220265]
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    Posted on 23:10:41 - 21/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    Madgod [1733719]

    I'll be honest, my actual belief on Jesus is this, and I hope it doesn't offend, but I know that those who are more serious in their Christian beliefs may find it offensive. I believe basically his mother rather than admitting to adultery claimed that it was an act of God, and somehow they convinced a bunch of people that this was true. Jesus, born into a probably broken family, turned to religion and became a preacher since he had the prior credentials of being the son of God.

    I'm not an atheist, but my view on God is that he is essentially the universe (or maybe, the universe is just one component of something bigger), and that in the same way we don't care for the life and death cycle of the skin cells on our body, same too would such a thing, if it was even conscious, care about the happenings on Earth.

    I view religious texts as being a way to get a populous paranoid of extinction onto the same page, and as more a collection of fables. I think it was a necessary and beneficial thing historically, and that it could still provide some benefits today, but for me personally, I would need a modernized religion who shares similar beliefs as myself, which I've yet to find. I think someone can be religious without being a part of any named religion and practice their religion on their own.

    I think such a modernized religion could be beneficial for building closer knit communities, as I feel we've become very disconnected in that regard.

    Also, you should consider moving this thread to the Politics & Law subforum as it may yield more active discussion

    SaintLuke [2220265]

    I personally feel as long as you do your best to live the best life and treat people as well as you can. That is all that really matters in the end. I have read the 3 main books (the Bible, Torah, and the Quran), and that is the main quality they all preach in my opinion. I know they all have violence and whatnot, but I tend to try and ignore that and focus on the positives and live my life that way. I know I have failed many times; hell, folks in Torn have seen me be pretty nasty, unfortunately. I just hope I'm forgiven by them in the end.

    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    That's a good way to think but what is it to "live the best life"? Each of these books has its interpretation of what the best life is.

    Torah - Follow all the 600+ laws that were given in the Old Testament
    Bible - Accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and follow the teachings of the Bible
    Quran - Follow the teaches of the Quran and do good deeds

    Now the Quran and the Bible have very similar teachings and there are some things that Mohammed said that I agree with. He said to be good to your parents and help the poor and I agree with that. What I don't agree with is the life Mohammed lived, the teachings of marriage, and the uncertainty of the Quran. This is what causes me to not believe the Quran.

    In
    Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 87, Hadith Number 145

    Um Al-‘Ala an Ansari woman who had given the Pledge of allegiance to Allah’s Apostle said, “‘Uthman bin Maz’un came in our share when the Ansars drew lots to distribute the emigrants (to dwell) among themselves, He became sick and we looked after (nursed) him till he died. Then we shrouded him in his clothes. Allah’s Apostle came to us, I (addressing the dead body) said, “May Allah’s Mercy be on you, O Aba As-Sa’ib! I testify that Allah has honored you.” The Prophet said, ‘How do you know that?’ I replied, ‘
    I do not know, by Allah.’ He said, ‘As for him, death has come to him and I wish him all good from Allah. By Allah, though I am Allah’s Apostle, I neither know what will happen to me, nor to you.'”
    Um Al-‘Ala said, “By Allah, I will never attest the righteousness of anybody after that.” She added, “Later I saw in a dream, a flowing spring for ‘Uthman. So I went to Allah’s Apostle and mentioned that to him. He said, ‘That is (the symbol of) his good deeds (the reward for) which is going on for him.'”

    Regardless of what life you live, you won't know if you make it to heaven or in the Muslim's case Jannah until you meet God or Allah.

    Jesus gave solidified knowledge on what takes us to heaven in several verses

    I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” John 6:51

    Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24

    There are more reasons why I believe the teachings of Jesus over other main religions. But forgiveness and change can happen now. The Christian faith is we sinned but forgiveness and repentance can happen now, it doesn't have to wait until death. Jesus died for us so we can be forgiven and turn away from our sins.
    Yes, they all have their own little quirks and whatnot. But it really boils down to treating folks right and helping folks around you when they need it. So, since it is impossible to know which religion, if any, is right, I'm just going to try and do as much good as I can while living my life. The most challenging part is learning to admit when you are wrong and to learn from it.

    USuaXj3.gif

    • ElHeffe [2564022]
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    Posted on 18:11:43 - 22/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    ElHeffe [2564022]

    Why is nearly everyone the same religion as their parents?

    Sweeney_Todd [27468]

    Because that is what they are taught as a child?

    Did you really need to ask that question?
    Yes. It was foundational to the next point which is to point out that if you just believe something because your parents believed it then there's no rational foundation to believe it.
    • Latinobull14 [2881384]
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    Posted on 21:16:49 - 22/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    God bless Mary (one of the 4 greatest women of Islam) and Jesus Christ the mighty prophet of God.





    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    Well since you brought it up, why do you follow Islam? What evidence in the Quran or your studies makes you believe that Islam is right and true?

    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    Many reasons, but this video amongst many has some great points:






    So I am basing my response on the first video. The main difference between the Christian and Islamic beliefs is Jesus vs Mohammed but there are many similarities. Even the Quran speaks about studying the Torah and the Bible as they are the word of God. Referring to Surah 5: 46-47.

    So the video speaks about no contradictions in the Quran. The Bible has many passages pointing Jesus to be God and Mohammed saying that he was simply a prophet with no ties to being an eternal being.

    If the Bible says Jesus is God and the Quran refers to the Bible as the Word of God, but Mohammed says that Jesus is not a God but a mere prophet, wouldn't that be a contradiction?
    • Seba_Nile [1782274]
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    Posted on 21:28:43 - 22/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    God bless Mary (one of the 4 greatest women of Islam) and Jesus Christ the mighty prophet of God.





    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    Well since you brought it up, why do you follow Islam? What evidence in the Quran or your studies makes you believe that Islam is right and true?

    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    Many reasons, but this video amongst many has some great points:






    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    So I am basing my response on the first video. The main difference between the Christian and Islamic beliefs is Jesus vs Mohammed but there are many similarities. Even the Quran speaks about studying the Torah and the Bible as they are the word of God. Referring to Surah 5: 46-47.

    So the video speaks about no contradictions in the Quran. The Bible has many passages pointing Jesus to be God and Mohammed saying that he was simply a prophet with no ties to being an eternal being.

    If the Bible says Jesus is God and the Quran refers to the Bible as the Word of God, but Mohammed says that Jesus is not a God but a mere prophet, wouldn't that be a contradiction?
    No it mentions that the Torah and Injeel to be the word of God but the Torah was tampered with by the rabbis at Babylon and became the Talmud and the injeel was tampered with by priests from many denominations so some truth is still in there but the parts that contradict are where priests but in verses to fit their own desires.

    8auSZpU.png

    • Latinobull14 [2881384]
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    Posted on 21:38:45 - 22/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    Madgod [1733719]

    I'll be honest, my actual belief on Jesus is this, and I hope it doesn't offend, but I know that those who are more serious in their Christian beliefs may find it offensive. I believe basically his mother rather than admitting to adultery claimed that it was an act of God, and somehow they convinced a bunch of people that this was true. Jesus, born into a probably broken family, turned to religion and became a preacher since he had the prior credentials of being the son of God.

    I'm not an atheist, but my view on God is that he is essentially the universe (or maybe, the universe is just one component of something bigger), and that in the same way we don't care for the life and death cycle of the skin cells on our body, same too would such a thing, if it was even conscious, care about the happenings on Earth.

    I view religious texts as being a way to get a populous paranoid of extinction onto the same page, and as more a collection of fables. I think it was a necessary and beneficial thing historically, and that it could still provide some benefits today, but for me personally, I would need a modernized religion who shares similar beliefs as myself, which I've yet to find. I think someone can be religious without being a part of any named religion and practice their religion on their own.

    I think such a modernized religion could be beneficial for building closer knit communities, as I feel we've become very disconnected in that regard.

    Also, you should consider moving this thread to the Politics & Law subforum as it may yield more active discussion

    SaintLuke [2220265]

    I personally feel as long as you do your best to live the best life and treat people as well as you can. That is all that really matters in the end. I have read the 3 main books (the Bible, Torah, and the Quran), and that is the main quality they all preach in my opinion. I know they all have violence and whatnot, but I tend to try and ignore that and focus on the positives and live my life that way. I know I have failed many times; hell, folks in Torn have seen me be pretty nasty, unfortunately. I just hope I'm forgiven by them in the end.

    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    That's a good way to think but what is it to "live the best life"? Each of these books has its interpretation of what the best life is.

    Torah - Follow all the 600+ laws that were given in the Old Testament
    Bible - Accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and follow the teachings of the Bible
    Quran - Follow the teaches of the Quran and do good deeds

    Now the Quran and the Bible have very similar teachings and there are some things that Mohammed said that I agree with. He said to be good to your parents and help the poor and I agree with that. What I don't agree with is the life Mohammed lived, the teachings of marriage, and the uncertainty of the Quran. This is what causes me to not believe the Quran.

    In
    Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 87, Hadith Number 145

    Um Al-‘Ala an Ansari woman who had given the Pledge of allegiance to Allah’s Apostle said, “‘Uthman bin Maz’un came in our share when the Ansars drew lots to distribute the emigrants (to dwell) among themselves, He became sick and we looked after (nursed) him till he died. Then we shrouded him in his clothes. Allah’s Apostle came to us, I (addressing the dead body) said, “May Allah’s Mercy be on you, O Aba As-Sa’ib! I testify that Allah has honored you.” The Prophet said, ‘How do you know that?’ I replied, ‘
    I do not know, by Allah.’ He said, ‘As for him, death has come to him and I wish him all good from Allah. By Allah, though I am Allah’s Apostle, I neither know what will happen to me, nor to you.'”
    Um Al-‘Ala said, “By Allah, I will never attest the righteousness of anybody after that.” She added, “Later I saw in a dream, a flowing spring for ‘Uthman. So I went to Allah’s Apostle and mentioned that to him. He said, ‘That is (the symbol of) his good deeds (the reward for) which is going on for him.'”

    Regardless of what life you live, you won't know if you make it to heaven or in the Muslim's case Jannah until you meet God or Allah.

    Jesus gave solidified knowledge on what takes us to heaven in several verses

    I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” John 6:51

    Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24

    There are more reasons why I believe the teachings of Jesus over other main religions. But forgiveness and change can happen now. The Christian faith is we sinned but forgiveness and repentance can happen now, it doesn't have to wait until death. Jesus died for us so we can be forgiven and turn away from our sins.

    SaintLuke [2220265]

    Yes, they all have their own little quirks and whatnot. But it really boils down to treating folks right and helping folks around you when they need it. So, since it is impossible to know which religion, if any, is right, I'm just going to try and do as much good as I can while living my life. The most challenging part is learning to admit when you are wrong and to learn from it.
    So my issue with that way of thinking is that you fall into the category of subjective morality. If you live based on your standards, who is to say that someone else's standards are wrong? If you believe helping the less fortunate and loving your family is good based on your own personal morals, I can say being selfish and saving all my money and living for myself is just as good based on my standards.

    The next point is that morals are based on society and cultural backgrounds. But I would also disagree with that because we are saying the culture of Nazi Germany was to torture and destroy Jewish people and because that's their culture it's good and we never should have intervened. We intervened because we have decided that the work of Nazi Germany was evil or not good. But based on who's standards?

    The next point is that morality is taking care of humankind and treating people the way you want to be treated. But again, I can't believe that because why should I take care of humankind and other people? Why can't I just worry about myself and not care about anyone else if this is my life and I go as I please? Is taking care of humans really the moral standard? If someone sexually assaults my daughter, why don't I have the right to return the favor and sexually assault his daughter? (Mods don't ban me just an example). He treated me how he wanted me to be treated, so I'm just returning the favor. There are too many issues and inconsistencies where that statement becomes false.

    There needs to be some form of objective morality. Something that sets the moral standards that we must obliged by. This is where I fall back to Christianity and the Bible. We as humans are too corrupt and evil to set moral standards. There is too much evidence in the history of the world that makes the previous statement true.
    • Latinobull14 [2881384]
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    Posted on 22:18:44 - 22/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    God bless Mary (one of the 4 greatest women of Islam) and Jesus Christ the mighty prophet of God.





    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    Well since you brought it up, why do you follow Islam? What evidence in the Quran or your studies makes you believe that Islam is right and true?

    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    Many reasons, but this video amongst many has some great points:






    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    So I am basing my response on the first video. The main difference between the Christian and Islamic beliefs is Jesus vs Mohammed but there are many similarities. Even the Quran speaks about studying the Torah and the Bible as they are the word of God. Referring to Surah 5: 46-47.

    So the video speaks about no contradictions in the Quran. The Bible has many passages pointing Jesus to be God and Mohammed saying that he was simply a prophet with no ties to being an eternal being.

    If the Bible says Jesus is God and the Quran refers to the Bible as the Word of God, but Mohammed says that Jesus is not a God but a mere prophet, wouldn't that be a contradiction?

    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    No it mentions that the Torah and Injeel to be the word of God but the Torah was tampered with by the rabbis at Babylon and became the Talmud and the injeel was tampered with by priests from many denominations so some truth is still in there but the parts that contradict are where priests but in verses to fit their own desires.
    This is where I would disagree. The Gospels have roughly 1700 Manuscripts evidence in its native language Greek New Testament in total has over 5000 copies. If you compare this to the studies of Plato, we only have 7 Manuscripts, or the study of Aristotle we have only 49 Manuscripts. The Gospels have the most consistent and accurate representation of the early civilization that we have in manuscript evidence based on the sheer volume of them. Also good to know that the first copies of all the Gospels at once hover around 100-130 AD.

    Now with all that manuscript evidence, is there any inconsistencies or contradiction? The answer to that is no, but there is a different point of view. When you look at the manuscript evidence of Jesus feeding the 5000 people. One manuscript will say "Jesus fed all of those who followed him". Another manuscript would say "Jesus fed the 5000 people who followed him". Another manuscript would read "Jesus fed all those who followed him which were 5000 men, besides woman and children".

    Are there any contradictions or inconsistencies? No, what we have is a different point of view. Neither one of those points contradicts whether or not Jesus did a miracle and fed the people who were following him and neither of them are false. But they each have different experiences of what happened. One only focused on the feeding as a whole. One focused on feeding and the men who were feeding. One focused on both the men, women, and the feeding of the people but no contradiction.(Referencing John 6:1-13, Matthew 14:13-21, Mark 6:32-44, Luke 9:10-17)

    Let's say I go tell my wife "Hey, I spoke to a guy on Torn about Christianity vs Islam today". Then my son says to my wife "Hey, Dad spoke to a guy on Torn about Christianity vs Islam today in the forum thread". Those statements are both true and don't contradict each other but they are spoken from different viewpoints.

    So I can say that the Gospels have accuracy issues due to being spoken from 4 different viewpoints, but by no means are they contradictory and have there been any changes, based on the volume of evidence we have in the Greek manuscripts that can be traced line by line to let's say an English Bible that we have today.
    • Latinobull14 [2881384]
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    Posted on 22:29:55 - 22/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    ElHeffe [2564022]

    Why is nearly everyone the same religion as their parents?

    Sweeney_Todd [27468]

    Because that is what they are taught as a child?

    Did you really need to ask that question?

    ElHeffe [2564022]

    Yes. It was foundational to the next point which is to point out that if you just believe something because your parents believed it then there's no rational foundation to believe it.
    Exactly this!

    I would never say follow me or follow something because I told you, or because you were raised in those teachings. Rather make a rational decision based on your studies. The first question you need to ask is, in the beginning, matter, and energy, or the beginning God? If you can conclude that in the beginning was just matter and energy and there is no higher power, then your journey stops there because religion is based on a higher power. After studying and analyzing you can confirm that in the beginning God, then we go on to question 2.

    Which God is the right God? This is where you must evaluate the religion you plan on studying and again ask questions to see if there are any contradictions and anything that sounds like nonsense, to be honest. Then you make your conclusion.

    Now if you are someone who is on more of the spiritual side of things, less of the logic and you believe in the power of prayer and meditation. I would encourage you to pray to God and ask him to reveal himself to you and to answer who is the real God and what is the right path. But to do so not with a heart to attack the other side or to prove a point, but with a sincere heart that loves God and wants to know what is the right path so they can follow it.
    • Unlucky [2472585]
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    Posted on 23:24:50 - 22/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    Caisa [2879996]

    To believe there is no God is also a belief. Even agnosticism is a sort of belief. The usual alternative to following a religion (such as Christianity, etc) is to follow the conventions of popular culture (which is in some senses of the word a faith) or to follow the ideas of science (which bases itself on many unproven assumptions at many points-- which yield the hard problem of where human consciousness comes from).

    But mostly which set of beliefs to follow are not a logical choice -- nor should they be that.

    The notion that from time to time we should remember to look at the things around us with a sense of wonder, that there are things to be thankful for even when life sucks, that what we do matters -- these are all religious sorts of ideas which tend to anchor me and which I find worthwhile giving credence to....
    I disagree religion requires belief and faith. A lack of religion is a lack of faith. If it can be proved that actually we are held to the ground by a massive Dyson hoover in the middle of the earth pulling us in then I will ditch the theory of gravity in a heart beat.


    To quote Tim Michin “Science changes its beliefs based on what’s observed, faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved”
    Last edited by Unlucky on 23:25:03 - 22/11/23
    • SaintLuke [2220265]
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    Posted on 04:01:09 - 23/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    Madgod [1733719]

    I'll be honest, my actual belief on Jesus is this, and I hope it doesn't offend, but I know that those who are more serious in their Christian beliefs may find it offensive. I believe basically his mother rather than admitting to adultery claimed that it was an act of God, and somehow they convinced a bunch of people that this was true. Jesus, born into a probably broken family, turned to religion and became a preacher since he had the prior credentials of being the son of God.

    I'm not an atheist, but my view on God is that he is essentially the universe (or maybe, the universe is just one component of something bigger), and that in the same way we don't care for the life and death cycle of the skin cells on our body, same too would such a thing, if it was even conscious, care about the happenings on Earth.

    I view religious texts as being a way to get a populous paranoid of extinction onto the same page, and as more a collection of fables. I think it was a necessary and beneficial thing historically, and that it could still provide some benefits today, but for me personally, I would need a modernized religion who shares similar beliefs as myself, which I've yet to find. I think someone can be religious without being a part of any named religion and practice their religion on their own.

    I think such a modernized religion could be beneficial for building closer knit communities, as I feel we've become very disconnected in that regard.

    Also, you should consider moving this thread to the Politics & Law subforum as it may yield more active discussion

    SaintLuke [2220265]

    I personally feel as long as you do your best to live the best life and treat people as well as you can. That is all that really matters in the end. I have read the 3 main books (the Bible, Torah, and the Quran), and that is the main quality they all preach in my opinion. I know they all have violence and whatnot, but I tend to try and ignore that and focus on the positives and live my life that way. I know I have failed many times; hell, folks in Torn have seen me be pretty nasty, unfortunately. I just hope I'm forgiven by them in the end.

    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    That's a good way to think but what is it to "live the best life"? Each of these books has its interpretation of what the best life is.

    Torah - Follow all the 600+ laws that were given in the Old Testament
    Bible - Accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and follow the teachings of the Bible
    Quran - Follow the teaches of the Quran and do good deeds

    Now the Quran and the Bible have very similar teachings and there are some things that Mohammed said that I agree with. He said to be good to your parents and help the poor and I agree with that. What I don't agree with is the life Mohammed lived, the teachings of marriage, and the uncertainty of the Quran. This is what causes me to not believe the Quran.

    In
    Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 87, Hadith Number 145

    Um Al-‘Ala an Ansari woman who had given the Pledge of allegiance to Allah’s Apostle said, “‘Uthman bin Maz’un came in our share when the Ansars drew lots to distribute the emigrants (to dwell) among themselves, He became sick and we looked after (nursed) him till he died. Then we shrouded him in his clothes. Allah’s Apostle came to us, I (addressing the dead body) said, “May Allah’s Mercy be on you, O Aba As-Sa’ib! I testify that Allah has honored you.” The Prophet said, ‘How do you know that?’ I replied, ‘
    I do not know, by Allah.’ He said, ‘As for him, death has come to him and I wish him all good from Allah. By Allah, though I am Allah’s Apostle, I neither know what will happen to me, nor to you.'”
    Um Al-‘Ala said, “By Allah, I will never attest the righteousness of anybody after that.” She added, “Later I saw in a dream, a flowing spring for ‘Uthman. So I went to Allah’s Apostle and mentioned that to him. He said, ‘That is (the symbol of) his good deeds (the reward for) which is going on for him.'”

    Regardless of what life you live, you won't know if you make it to heaven or in the Muslim's case Jannah until you meet God or Allah.

    Jesus gave solidified knowledge on what takes us to heaven in several verses

    I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” John 6:51

    Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24

    There are more reasons why I believe the teachings of Jesus over other main religions. But forgiveness and change can happen now. The Christian faith is we sinned but forgiveness and repentance can happen now, it doesn't have to wait until death. Jesus died for us so we can be forgiven and turn away from our sins.

    SaintLuke [2220265]

    Yes, they all have their own little quirks and whatnot. But it really boils down to treating folks right and helping folks around you when they need it. So, since it is impossible to know which religion, if any, is right, I'm just going to try and do as much good as I can while living my life. The most challenging part is learning to admit when you are wrong and to learn from it.

    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    So my issue with that way of thinking is that you fall into the category of subjective morality. If you live based on your standards, who is to say that someone else's standards are wrong? If you believe helping the less fortunate and loving your family is good based on your own personal morals, I can say being selfish and saving all my money and living for myself is just as good based on my standards.

    The next point is that morals are based on society and cultural backgrounds. But I would also disagree with that because we are saying the culture of Nazi Germany was to torture and destroy Jewish people and because that's their culture it's good and we never should have intervened. We intervened because we have decided that the work of Nazi Germany was evil or not good. But based on who's standards?

    The next point is that morality is taking care of humankind and treating people the way you want to be treated. But again, I can't believe that because why should I take care of humankind and other people? Why can't I just worry about myself and not care about anyone else if this is my life and I go as I please? Is taking care of humans really the moral standard? If someone sexually assaults my daughter, why don't I have the right to return the favor and sexually assault his daughter? (Mods don't ban me just an example). He treated me how he wanted me to be treated, so I'm just returning the favor. There are too many issues and inconsistencies where that statement becomes false.

    There needs to be some form of objective morality. Something that sets the moral standards that we must obliged by. This is where I fall back to Christianity and the Bible. We as humans are too corrupt and evil to set moral standards. There is too much evidence in the history of the world that makes the previous statement true.
    Religion is nothing but beliefs, so you are free to believe being selfish is the right way to go. That does not affect me, I only have to answer for my actions.

    Everything you said is just a repeat of what you have said previously. (the point and the next point pt.2)

    We have laws, pretty sure that cover this issue you seem to have. You might want to reread the Old Testament and other Bible parts. The Christian bible has just as much violence in it as any other religious book, if not more. So I'm not sure why you are so stuck on it being the Christian bible we get our morals from.

    Humans wrote these books, so we would still be getting our morals from humans using these books.

    USuaXj3.gif

    • broleaf [3140943]
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    Posted on 04:05:56 - 23/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    Jesus is king.

    NRx. Reject Modernity return to: Tradition, Monarchy, Spirit.

    GENERAL-HUX-STARKILLER-BASE-SAR-WARS-THE-FORCE-AWAKENS-1.jpg

    • ElHeffe [2564022]
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    Posted on 10:46:07 - 25/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    ElHeffe [2564022]

    Why is nearly everyone the same religion as their parents?

    Sweeney_Todd [27468]

    Because that is what they are taught as a child?

    Did you really need to ask that question?

    ElHeffe [2564022]

    Yes. It was foundational to the next point which is to point out that if you just believe something because your parents believed it then there's no rational foundation to believe it.

    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    Exactly this!

    I would never say follow me or follow something because I told you, or because you were raised in those teachings. Rather make a rational decision based on your studies. The first question you need to ask is, in the beginning, matter, and energy, or the beginning God? If you can conclude that in the beginning was just matter and energy and there is no higher power, then your journey stops there because religion is based on a higher power. After studying and analyzing you can confirm that in the beginning God, then we go on to question 2.

    Which God is the right God? This is where you must evaluate the religion you plan on studying and again ask questions to see if there are any contradictions and anything that sounds like nonsense, to be honest. Then you make your conclusion.

    Now if you are someone who is on more of the spiritual side of things, less of the logic and you believe in the power of prayer and meditation. I would encourage you to pray to God and ask him to reveal himself to you and to answer who is the real God and what is the right path. But to do so not with a heart to attack the other side or to prove a point, but with a sincere heart that loves God and wants to know what is the right path so they can follow it.
    God is free to reveal himself to me at any point they choose.

    I did ask God to reveal themselves - no God was forthcoming. Therefore either:
    a. your method of getting God to reveal themselves is incorrect.
    b. there is no God.
    c. you've created an unfalsifiable position, whereas when God doesn't reveal themselves, you can say "ah, you were not sincere enough" and so can never be proven wrong - a deeply dishonest position.

    Which is it please?
    • Latinobull14 [2881384]
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    Posted on 21:47:21 - 25/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    ElHeffe [2564022]

    Why is nearly everyone the same religion as their parents?

    Sweeney_Todd [27468]

    Because that is what they are taught as a child?

    Did you really need to ask that question?

    ElHeffe [2564022]

    Yes. It was foundational to the next point which is to point out that if you just believe something because your parents believed it then there's no rational foundation to believe it.

    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    Exactly this!

    I would never say follow me or follow something because I told you, or because you were raised in those teachings. Rather make a rational decision based on your studies. The first question you need to ask is, in the beginning, matter, and energy, or the beginning God? If you can conclude that in the beginning was just matter and energy and there is no higher power, then your journey stops there because religion is based on a higher power. After studying and analyzing you can confirm that in the beginning God, then we go on to question 2.

    Which God is the right God? This is where you must evaluate the religion you plan on studying and again ask questions to see if there are any contradictions and anything that sounds like nonsense, to be honest. Then you make your conclusion.

    Now if you are someone who is on more of the spiritual side of things, less of the logic and you believe in the power of prayer and meditation. I would encourage you to pray to God and ask him to reveal himself to you and to answer who is the real God and what is the right path. But to do so not with a heart to attack the other side or to prove a point, but with a sincere heart that loves God and wants to know what is the right path so they can follow it.

    ElHeffe [2564022]

    God is free to reveal himself to me at any point they choose.

    I did ask God to reveal themselves - no God was forthcoming. Therefore either:
    a. your method of getting God to reveal themselves is incorrect.
    b. there is no God.
    c. you've created an unfalsifiable position, whereas when God doesn't reveal themselves, you can say "ah, you were not sincere enough" and so can never be proven wrong - a deeply dishonest position.

    Which is it please?
    TLDR; you need to believe in a higher being in order to work in the action of prayer. If faith is hard for your mind to grasp, stick to the historical evidence in the writings of the Gospels for evidence.

    The question to you is do you believe that a God can exist? Are you in the beginning matter and energy or in the beginning God? If you haven't decided on the answer or if you believe in the beginning matter and energy, the second point doesn't matter to you. You are trying to jump straight to the end without going through the process. How can someone accurately understand Jazz Standards in music if they don't understand the concept of a note or a chord? How can a white slave owner go out to a restaurant with a black man if he doesn't believe in the concept that all humans are equal?

    With your point B, I can assume you aren't convinced there is a God. If that is your truth, going forward in the process has no value as the process is to determine if there is a God. If you don't understand chords and notes in music, understanding Jazz Standards is going to be ludicrous for you. If a white slave owner doesn't believe all humans are equal, then going out to a restaurant with a black man will be taboo and cause strife in his mind and heart.

    Now let's say you believe God is real and now you want to understand which belief is true. Every religion has some form of prayer. Christianity, Islam, Hindu, etc. So in order to believe that there is a God, you must believe that communication through said God is based on some sort of prayer. But again, if your mindset is strictly based on logic, it might be hard to wrap your head around prayer. Which is why you need faith.

    But again, if faith is something that you really can't understand or process in your search for a higher being, then I encourage you to study the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. But I would say go deeper than just reading it. Understand that the gospel has the most manuscript evidence compared to other early-century writers such as Aristotle, Socrates, etc. Go deeper and understand that the eyewitness accounts in the Gospels are historically accurate. The places that they write, the similarities between the writers, and the lack of contradiction between each writer's experience during the time of Jesus. Truly understand the teachings of Jesus and see if Jesus followed the teachings that he taught. Then from there, you can make an honest answer on Christianity based on Jesus, not based on the history of people who skewed it and used it for money, power, or land.

    You do make a good point in your opening sentence. "God is free to reveal himself to me at any point they choose". Why doesn't he? I don't know the actual answer because I don't know God's thoughts. But here is MY answer.

    God created us with a purpose to love. Love can only occur if there is free will. If I have an arranged marriage for my son; he has to marry this girl that I want for him that he never met. 99% of the time he will not love her and vice versa. They are being forced into being together and love can not exist when forced. God gave us free will because it was good, but more so, because it allows those to genuinely love and worship him. If God were to reveal himself to everyone on earth that he exists, would they worship him and follow their teachings because they truly love him? or would they do those things because they are scared of Hell and if he exists, Hell exists?

    Even more so, we see evidence of God revealing himself to people and even though they had evidence, they still couldn't follow and did their own things. Again going to stick most of my response around Jesus because that's what the post is about, but look at Judas. He was with Jesus throughout his entire ministry and heard all the teachings and how the Lord can forgive those who sinned. Jesus again claimed himself to be God several times throughout his ministry. Judas betrayed Jesus for money, but instead of believing in forgiveness, he killed himself. He heard all the teachings of Jesus, all the miracles of Jesus, but with that, still decided to commit an action that goes against the teachings of the bible.

    So that's why in my opinion God doesn't reveal himself to everyone in 2023.
    • Latinobull14 [2881384]
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    Posted on 22:10:52 - 25/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    Madgod [1733719]

    I'll be honest, my actual belief on Jesus is this, and I hope it doesn't offend, but I know that those who are more serious in their Christian beliefs may find it offensive. I believe basically his mother rather than admitting to adultery claimed that it was an act of God, and somehow they convinced a bunch of people that this was true. Jesus, born into a probably broken family, turned to religion and became a preacher since he had the prior credentials of being the son of God.

    I'm not an atheist, but my view on God is that he is essentially the universe (or maybe, the universe is just one component of something bigger), and that in the same way we don't care for the life and death cycle of the skin cells on our body, same too would such a thing, if it was even conscious, care about the happenings on Earth.

    I view religious texts as being a way to get a populous paranoid of extinction onto the same page, and as more a collection of fables. I think it was a necessary and beneficial thing historically, and that it could still provide some benefits today, but for me personally, I would need a modernized religion who shares similar beliefs as myself, which I've yet to find. I think someone can be religious without being a part of any named religion and practice their religion on their own.

    I think such a modernized religion could be beneficial for building closer knit communities, as I feel we've become very disconnected in that regard.

    Also, you should consider moving this thread to the Politics & Law subforum as it may yield more active discussion

    SaintLuke [2220265]

    I personally feel as long as you do your best to live the best life and treat people as well as you can. That is all that really matters in the end. I have read the 3 main books (the Bible, Torah, and the Quran), and that is the main quality they all preach in my opinion. I know they all have violence and whatnot, but I tend to try and ignore that and focus on the positives and live my life that way. I know I have failed many times; hell, folks in Torn have seen me be pretty nasty, unfortunately. I just hope I'm forgiven by them in the end.

    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    That's a good way to think but what is it to "live the best life"? Each of these books has its interpretation of what the best life is.

    Torah - Follow all the 600+ laws that were given in the Old Testament
    Bible - Accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and follow the teachings of the Bible
    Quran - Follow the teaches of the Quran and do good deeds

    Now the Quran and the Bible have very similar teachings and there are some things that Mohammed said that I agree with. He said to be good to your parents and help the poor and I agree with that. What I don't agree with is the life Mohammed lived, the teachings of marriage, and the uncertainty of the Quran. This is what causes me to not believe the Quran.

    In
    Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 87, Hadith Number 145

    Um Al-‘Ala an Ansari woman who had given the Pledge of allegiance to Allah’s Apostle said, “‘Uthman bin Maz’un came in our share when the Ansars drew lots to distribute the emigrants (to dwell) among themselves, He became sick and we looked after (nursed) him till he died. Then we shrouded him in his clothes. Allah’s Apostle came to us, I (addressing the dead body) said, “May Allah’s Mercy be on you, O Aba As-Sa’ib! I testify that Allah has honored you.” The Prophet said, ‘How do you know that?’ I replied, ‘
    I do not know, by Allah.’ He said, ‘As for him, death has come to him and I wish him all good from Allah. By Allah, though I am Allah’s Apostle, I neither know what will happen to me, nor to you.'”
    Um Al-‘Ala said, “By Allah, I will never attest the righteousness of anybody after that.” She added, “Later I saw in a dream, a flowing spring for ‘Uthman. So I went to Allah’s Apostle and mentioned that to him. He said, ‘That is (the symbol of) his good deeds (the reward for) which is going on for him.'”

    Regardless of what life you live, you won't know if you make it to heaven or in the Muslim's case Jannah until you meet God or Allah.

    Jesus gave solidified knowledge on what takes us to heaven in several verses

    I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” John 6:51

    Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24

    There are more reasons why I believe the teachings of Jesus over other main religions. But forgiveness and change can happen now. The Christian faith is we sinned but forgiveness and repentance can happen now, it doesn't have to wait until death. Jesus died for us so we can be forgiven and turn away from our sins.

    SaintLuke [2220265]

    Yes, they all have their own little quirks and whatnot. But it really boils down to treating folks right and helping folks around you when they need it. So, since it is impossible to know which religion, if any, is right, I'm just going to try and do as much good as I can while living my life. The most challenging part is learning to admit when you are wrong and to learn from it.

    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    So my issue with that way of thinking is that you fall into the category of subjective morality. If you live based on your standards, who is to say that someone else's standards are wrong? If you believe helping the less fortunate and loving your family is good based on your own personal morals, I can say being selfish and saving all my money and living for myself is just as good based on my standards.

    The next point is that morals are based on society and cultural backgrounds. But I would also disagree with that because we are saying the culture of Nazi Germany was to torture and destroy Jewish people and because that's their culture it's good and we never should have intervened. We intervened because we have decided that the work of Nazi Germany was evil or not good. But based on who's standards?

    The next point is that morality is taking care of humankind and treating people the way you want to be treated. But again, I can't believe that because why should I take care of humankind and other people? Why can't I just worry about myself and not care about anyone else if this is my life and I go as I please? Is taking care of humans really the moral standard? If someone sexually assaults my daughter, why don't I have the right to return the favor and sexually assault his daughter? (Mods don't ban me just an example). He treated me how he wanted me to be treated, so I'm just returning the favor. There are too many issues and inconsistencies where that statement becomes false.

    There needs to be some form of objective morality. Something that sets the moral standards that we must obliged by. This is where I fall back to Christianity and the Bible. We as humans are too corrupt and evil to set moral standards. There is too much evidence in the history of the world that makes the previous statement true.

    SaintLuke [2220265]

    Religion is nothing but beliefs, so you are free to believe being selfish is the right way to go. That does not affect me, I only have to answer for my actions.

    Everything you said is just a repeat of what you have said previously. (the point and the next point pt.2)

    We have laws, pretty sure that cover this issue you seem to have. You might want to reread the Old Testament and other Bible parts. The Christian bible has just as much violence in it as any other religious book, if not more. So I'm not sure why you are so stuck on it being the Christian bible we get our morals from.

    Humans wrote these books, so we would still be getting our morals from humans using these books.
    I definitely understand your point but disagree with how lows fix the problem. In Nazi Germany, it was law to kill all Jews or report them to the government to be put in concentration camps. In the late 1800s USA, it was law that blacks were 1/3 a man and they could not interact with white folks unless addressed. In modern times, there are countries that will flog you and kill you if you are gay based on their law. Can you say that law fixes subjective morality?

    I'm not saying the Bible doesn't have tons of violence. The Canaanites, Sodom and Gomorrah, David's journey to become King. I'm not blinded by that. However, what I think you are stuck on is that the Bible isn't just a moral book. Yes, there are laws and morals that we follow, but there is also history, data, and historical stories in the book.

    David in the Bible was considered a man after God's own heart. David as King, slept with his friend's wife, got her pregnant, and killed his friend purposefully in battle to cover it up. You would not find anywhere in the Bible that says David was righteous in killing his friend and stealing his wife. Actually, the wording the bible uses says this:
    "After the time of mourning was over, David had her brought to his house, and she became his wife and bore him a son. But the thing David had done displeased the Lord" - 2 Samuel 11:27

    The Bible speaking about the horrible things that humans have done does not mean that action is a moral standard. It literally just tells us the story of David and how he failed as a King and as a follower of God. But it doesn't justify it.

    Overall the Bible is a moral book, a historical book that explains what happened in early civilization, and it's a data book that has all the genealogies and historical background of some people. Not everything in the bible is a moral law.
    • Firecracker [2623632]
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    Posted on 22:17:25 - 25/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    real question time.. how do you feel about the crusades? how would you feel about a new one in modern times? what are your views on "the holy land"?

    Parody.png

    • ElHeffe [2564022]
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    Posted on 23:51:46 - 25/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    TLDR; you need to believe in a higher being in order to work in the action of prayer. If faith is hard for your mind to grasp, stick to the historical evidence in the writings of the Gospels for evidence.

    The question to you is do you believe that a God can exist? Are you in the beginning matter and energy or in the beginning God? If you haven't decided on the answer or if you believe in the beginning matter and energy, the second point doesn't matter to you. You are trying to jump straight to the end without going through the process. How can someone accurately understand Jazz Standards in music if they don't understand the concept of a note or a chord? How can a white slave owner go out to a restaurant with a black man if he doesn't believe in the concept that all humans are equal?

    With your point B, I can assume you aren't convinced there is a God. If that is your truth, going forward in the process has no value as the process is to determine if there is a God. If you don't understand chords and notes in music, understanding Jazz Standards is going to be ludicrous for you. If a white slave owner doesn't believe all humans are equal, then going out to a restaurant with a black man will be taboo and cause strife in his mind and heart.

    Now let's say you believe God is real and now you want to understand which belief is true. Every religion has some form of prayer. Christianity, Islam, Hindu, etc. So in order to believe that there is a God, you must believe that communication through said God is based on some sort of prayer. But again, if your mindset is strictly based on logic, it might be hard to wrap your head around prayer. Which is why you need faith.

    But again, if faith is something that you really can't understand or process in your search for a higher being, then I encourage you to study the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. But I would say go deeper than just reading it. Understand that the gospel has the most manuscript evidence compared to other early-century writers such as Aristotle, Socrates, etc. Go deeper and understand that the eyewitness accounts in the Gospels are historically accurate. The places that they write, the similarities between the writers, and the lack of contradiction between each writer's experience during the time of Jesus. Truly understand the teachings of Jesus and see if Jesus followed the teachings that he taught. Then from there, you can make an honest answer on Christianity based on Jesus, not based on the history of people who skewed it and used it for money, power, or land.

    You do make a good point in your opening sentence. "God is free to reveal himself to me at any point they choose". Why doesn't he? I don't know the actual answer because I don't know God's thoughts. But here is MY answer.

    God created us with a purpose to love. Love can only occur if there is free will. If I have an arranged marriage for my son; he has to marry this girl that I want for him that he never met. 99% of the time he will not love her and vice versa. They are being forced into being together and love can not exist when forced. God gave us free will because it was good, but more so, because it allows those to genuinely love and worship him. If God were to reveal himself to everyone on earth that he exists, would they worship him and follow their teachings because they truly love him? or would they do those things because they are scared of Hell and if he exists, Hell exists?

    Even more so, we see evidence of God revealing himself to people and even though they had evidence, they still couldn't follow and did their own things. Again going to stick most of my response around Jesus because that's what the post is about, but look at Judas. He was with Jesus throughout his entire ministry and heard all the teachings and how the Lord can forgive those who sinned. Jesus again claimed himself to be God several times throughout his ministry. Judas betrayed Jesus for money, but instead of believing in forgiveness, he killed himself. He heard all the teachings of Jesus, all the miracles of Jesus, but with that, still decided to commit an action that goes against the teachings of the bible.

    So that's why in my opinion God doesn't reveal himself to everyone in 2023.
    So it was option C then.

    I know this won't further the conversation, but I will be honest, what you're saying sounds mental. It's so obviously full of contradictions and flat out denial of reality.

    To think that there's millions of people out there who share that belief is really quite frightening.
    • Latinobull14 [2881384]
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    Posted on 00:00:04 - 26/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    Latinobull14 [2881384]

    TLDR; you need to believe in a higher being in order to work in the action of prayer. If faith is hard for your mind to grasp, stick to the historical evidence in the writings of the Gospels for evidence.

    The question to you is do you believe that a God can exist? Are you in the beginning matter and energy or in the beginning God? If you haven't decided on the answer or if you believe in the beginning matter and energy, the second point doesn't matter to you. You are trying to jump straight to the end without going through the process. How can someone accurately understand Jazz Standards in music if they don't understand the concept of a note or a chord? How can a white slave owner go out to a restaurant with a black man if he doesn't believe in the concept that all humans are equal?

    With your point B, I can assume you aren't convinced there is a God. If that is your truth, going forward in the process has no value as the process is to determine if there is a God. If you don't understand chords and notes in music, understanding Jazz Standards is going to be ludicrous for you. If a white slave owner doesn't believe all humans are equal, then going out to a restaurant with a black man will be taboo and cause strife in his mind and heart.

    Now let's say you believe God is real and now you want to understand which belief is true. Every religion has some form of prayer. Christianity, Islam, Hindu, etc. So in order to believe that there is a God, you must believe that communication through said God is based on some sort of prayer. But again, if your mindset is strictly based on logic, it might be hard to wrap your head around prayer. Which is why you need faith.

    But again, if faith is something that you really can't understand or process in your search for a higher being, then I encourage you to study the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. But I would say go deeper than just reading it. Understand that the gospel has the most manuscript evidence compared to other early-century writers such as Aristotle, Socrates, etc. Go deeper and understand that the eyewitness accounts in the Gospels are historically accurate. The places that they write, the similarities between the writers, and the lack of contradiction between each writer's experience during the time of Jesus. Truly understand the teachings of Jesus and see if Jesus followed the teachings that he taught. Then from there, you can make an honest answer on Christianity based on Jesus, not based on the history of people who skewed it and used it for money, power, or land.

    You do make a good point in your opening sentence. "God is free to reveal himself to me at any point they choose". Why doesn't he? I don't know the actual answer because I don't know God's thoughts. But here is MY answer.

    God created us with a purpose to love. Love can only occur if there is free will. If I have an arranged marriage for my son; he has to marry this girl that I want for him that he never met. 99% of the time he will not love her and vice versa. They are being forced into being together and love can not exist when forced. God gave us free will because it was good, but more so, because it allows those to genuinely love and worship him. If God were to reveal himself to everyone on earth that he exists, would they worship him and follow their teachings because they truly love him? or would they do those things because they are scared of Hell and if he exists, Hell exists?

    Even more so, we see evidence of God revealing himself to people and even though they had evidence, they still couldn't follow and did their own things. Again going to stick most of my response around Jesus because that's what the post is about, but look at Judas. He was with Jesus throughout his entire ministry and heard all the teachings and how the Lord can forgive those who sinned. Jesus again claimed himself to be God several times throughout his ministry. Judas betrayed Jesus for money, but instead of believing in forgiveness, he killed himself. He heard all the teachings of Jesus, all the miracles of Jesus, but with that, still decided to commit an action that goes against the teachings of the bible.

    So that's why in my opinion God doesn't reveal himself to everyone in 2023.

    ElHeffe [2564022]

    So it was option C then.

    I know this won't further the conversation, but I will be honest, what you're saying sounds mental. It's so obviously full of contradictions and flat out denial of reality.

    To think that there's millions of people out there who share that belief is really quite frightening.
    Well, I don't think it will stop the conversation but I think it will start a new one. So explain to me what about the Christian belief is contradictory and not in line with reality.
    • broleaf [3140943]
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    Posted on 20:48:44 - 26/11/23 (7 months ago)
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    I'm going to quote Steppenwolf and his explanation of how atheists can't conceptualize spirit and therefore cant rationalize morality

    "atheist, or a person of another religion, say Baalism, can in fact be moral and do what is right and good. In fact Christians believe this to be true, if they know their Bible very well.

    "However the problem that atheism has with morality is that it cannot acknowledge morality as an existential reality. This is because atheism acknowledges no arbiter of truth; thus atheism can make no appeal to such an arbiter, or 'higher power'. In the atheist world-view, people may have opinions about morality, but they are only opinions. Nobody's opinion can be held ultimately in higher regard than anyone else's. An atheist society may debate ethics for millennia, but ultimately no moral code can ever be formulated because a moral code as such carries the authority of the "supernatural". An atheistic society may, by consensus or by unanimous support, hold that killing another person is wrong, but would only have it'self to ascribe the power to make such a distinction.

    Now, the typical atheist retort to this goes something like "You're saying that without religion to guide us, people would all go around murdering people, but I'm an atheist and I don't want to murder people." But that misses the point. The point in saying that there is no rational basis for morality without a god to uphold it, has nothing to do with whether people would "want" to do anything. The individual atheist's desire to kill a person or not to kill a person has much more to do with the physical characteristics of ones body and brain than it has to do with a moral code. The moral code comes into play when someone does want to kill a person for some reason. Now, the atheist can certainly hold the mistaken belief that they know right from wrong, and perhaps this belief would dissuade such an one. But one would still have no rational justification for holding that set of morals to be true."

    Now, I'm going to add my own expanded premise to what he wrote earlier this week.

    There is another thing to consider: an atheist isn't capable of conceptualizing free will ether due to similar reasons. They can't conceptualize spirit. They often build arguments based on the illogical contemporary context that is constantly shifting, thus forcing them to shift. Their free will is based on external forces outside their control.

    Most individuals deemed 'normies' struggle to rationalize independently, often relying heavily on communal arguments, which limits their capacity for exercising free will or developments of critical thinking skills.


    Now, lastly, with everything provided previously I'm going to bring forth a question: What separates an atheist from an animal?

    Last edited by broleaf on 20:54:49 - 26/11/23

    NRx. Reject Modernity return to: Tradition, Monarchy, Spirit.

    GENERAL-HUX-STARKILLER-BASE-SAR-WARS-THE-FORCE-AWAKENS-1.jpg

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