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I Believe Jesus is God. Ask Me Anything! Thread

I Believe Jesus is God. Ask Me Anything!

Latinobull14
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Thread created on 19:14:51 - 15/11/23 (1 year ago)

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Last replied 10:41:39 - 15/01/24 (1 year ago)

It's me again!

Not gonna lie, I genuinely enjoyed the conversation that I had in my previous post and wanted to extend the topic to a singular topic which is Jesus. This is the foundation of the Christian beliefs, (at least it should be). With that, there are different arguments involving Jesus whether he was only a prophet, not a God, he didn't exist, etc.

Let's talk about it. Let's have a conversation about it and feel free to question my belief.

My Belief:
Jesus is the Son of God who came down to heaven in human form to save us from our sins by dying on the cross for us. He then resurrected after 3 days and after addressing his disciples in his resurrected form, he ascended to heaven. Jesus himself is God but separate from God the father.

AMA
Edit: Edited my belief portion as my wording made it seem like Jesus isn't God but only the son of God and not God himself.

UPDATE Been MIA had life things happen lol but I will get around to answering everyone points when available

Last edited by Latinobull14 on 17:48:29 - 21/11/23 (1 year ago)
Sweeney_Todd
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Posted on 00:10:18 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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I prefered his older brother that collected honey, Besus...

I will never lie to you. What I say is how I feel...
broleaf
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Posted on 06:45:36 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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modernity vs christianity
what sets modernity apart from christianity the acceptance of a genuine personal authority submission to the father recognition that authority exists in father-figures from patriarchs to the fathers of nations, and to ultimately god the father and secondly christianity is the recognition that man must understand the world through a certain structure because we use language and signs and narratives to form thoughts the buddhist idea that all such structures can be detached from is the opposite of the christian view and so instead christianity puts forth that we can understand the world through the word of god rather than through our own interpretations that we can just infinitely reconstruct gnosis, the scientific rationality, further social reforms etc at the expense of the tradition

Last edited by broleaf on 06:51:33 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)

NRx. Reject Modernity return to: Tradition, Monarchy, Spirit.
broleaf
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Posted on 06:46:57 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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id insert a moral foundation theory here but i cant bothered but ill say this the first whig was of the devil. Lastly, power dynamics haven't changed in 500 years democracy is bread and circus for plebs muh power anthropology.

Last edited by broleaf on 20:16:40 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)

NRx. Reject Modernity return to: Tradition, Monarchy, Spirit.
EverleighRaven
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Posted on 06:56:39 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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So I'm not Christian, and I don't mean to offend anybody with this, but I feel it is wrong for someone completely innocent, such as Jesus in this case, to be punished, tortured, and killed for my wrongdoings, which are completely MY fault, while I get to escape punishment and get a free ticket to heaven. I feel that accepting such a deal is wrong and unjust, because in no other case, such as through the justice system, is it right or legal or acceptable to scapegoat somebody like this. How do Christians who have accepted the salvation of Jesus feel about this?

Last edited by EverleighRaven on 06:56:57 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
broleaf
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Posted on 07:01:44 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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EverleighRaven [2949890]
So I'm not Christian, and I don't mean to offend anybody with this, but I feel it is wrong for someone completely innocent, such as Jesus in this case, to be punished, tortured, and killed for my wrongdoings, which are completely MY fault, while I get to escape punishment and get a free ticket to heaven. I feel that accepting such a deal is wrong and unjust, because in no other case, such as through the justice system, is it right or legal or acceptable to scapegoat somebody like this. How do Christians who have accepted the salvation of Jesus feel about this?

Christians believe in the concept of being reborn. And secondly, being in communion by walking the path of jesus the entire point of the saints is more or less to be reminders and role models to help achieve that path.

Last edited by broleaf on 07:06:13 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)

NRx. Reject Modernity return to: Tradition, Monarchy, Spirit.
EverleighRaven
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Posted on 07:11:53 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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EverleighRaven [2949890]
So I'm not Christian, and I don't mean to offend anybody with this, but I feel it is wrong for someone completely innocent, such as Jesus in this case, to be punished, tortured, and killed for my wrongdoings, which are completely MY fault, while I get to escape punishment and get a free ticket to heaven. I feel that accepting such a deal is wrong and unjust, because in no other case, such as through the justice system, is it right or legal or acceptable to scapegoat somebody like this. How do Christians who have accepted the salvation of Jesus feel about this?
broleaf [3140943]
Christians believe in the concept of being reborn. And secondly, being in communion by walking the path of jesus the entire point of the saints is more or less to be reminders and role models to help achieve that path.

I do not really understand what you mean. Can you explain or provide examples and be more specific about what communion means and how do I walk the path of Jesus? I am trying to do research, but that;s not making that much sense to me either.
Edit: So being in communion and walking the path of Jesus is like living life the correct way or the way that God intended? Also I forgot to ask: what does it really mean to be reborn as a Christian?

Last edited by EverleighRaven on 07:14:16 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
Bumfluff
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Posted on 07:35:23 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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Who is Jesus praying to in the garden of Gethsemane? (Matthew 26:36-44)

Specifically at Matthew 26:39,how can Jesus say “let not my will but your will take place”? If Jesus is God why do their wills differ?

Similarly, Jesus said he came to Earth not to do his will but the will of he who sent him, if Jesus is God, then who sent him? John 6:38

There’s plenty more reasoning to disprove a trinitarian view, I myself am Christian but have found that the scriptures indicate Jesus is not God, but clearly as you mentioned, God’s son, the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15)
Bumfluff
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Posted on 07:49:25 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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EverleighRaven [2949890]
So I'm not Christian, and I don't mean to offend anybody with this, but I feel it is wrong for someone completely innocent, such as Jesus in this case, to be punished, tortured, and killed for my wrongdoings, which are completely MY fault, while I get to escape punishment and get a free ticket to heaven. I feel that accepting such a deal is wrong and unjust, because in no other case, such as through the justice system, is it right or legal or acceptable to scapegoat somebody like this. How do Christians who have accepted the salvation of Jesus feel about this?
broleaf [3140943]
Christians believe in the concept of being reborn. And secondly, being in communion by walking the path of jesus the entire point of the saints is more or less to be reminders and role models to help achieve that path.
EverleighRaven [2949890]
I do not really understand what you mean. Can you explain or provide examples and be more specific about what communion means and how do I walk the path of Jesus? I am trying to do research, but that;s not making that much sense to me either.
Edit: So being in communion and walking the path of Jesus is like living life the correct way or the way that God intended? Also I forgot to ask: what does it really mean to be reborn as a Christian?

Branches of Christianity vary in doctrine and the answers to your question will differ depending on who you speak to.

Very simply, Adam and Eve were created as perfect humans with free will, disobeyed God which caused Sin to enter into the mankind.

Jesus, was sent to Earth by God as a perfect man to cover the price of what Adam had lost, by sacrificing his own perfect life.

(Romans 5:12, 1 Corinthians 15:21,22)

That is why Jesus died for mankind, because God loves mankind, and gave his son on our behalf. (1 John 4:10)
broleaf
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Posted on 07:50:16 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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EverleighRaven [2949890]
So I'm not Christian, and I don't mean to offend anybody with this, but I feel it is wrong for someone completely innocent, such as Jesus in this case, to be punished, tortured, and killed for my wrongdoings, which are completely MY fault, while I get to escape punishment and get a free ticket to heaven. I feel that accepting such a deal is wrong and unjust, because in no other case, such as through the justice system, is it right or legal or acceptable to scapegoat somebody like this. How do Christians who have accepted the salvation of Jesus feel about this?
broleaf [3140943]
Christians believe in the concept of being reborn. And secondly, being in communion by walking the path of jesus the entire point of the saints is more or less to be reminders and role models to help achieve that path.
EverleighRaven [2949890]
I do not really understand what you mean. Can you explain or provide examples and be more specific about what communion means and how do I walk the path of Jesus? I am trying to do research, but that;s not making that much sense to me either.
Edit: So being in communion and walking the path of Jesus is like living life the correct way or the way that God intended? Also I forgot to ask: what does it really mean to be reborn as a Christian?

Im more of a pragmatic philosopher type of Christian so if i want to ask a question related to scripture in summary, i visit my priest and ask them cause i didn't go to school for years studying the topic like they have.

Last edited by broleaf on 07:50:38 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)

NRx. Reject Modernity return to: Tradition, Monarchy, Spirit.
Latinobull14
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Posted on 07:50:49 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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EverleighRaven [2949890]
So I'm not Christian, and I don't mean to offend anybody with this, but I feel it is wrong for someone completely innocent, such as Jesus in this case, to be punished, tortured, and killed for my wrongdoings, which are completely MY fault, while I get to escape punishment and get a free ticket to heaven. I feel that accepting such a deal is wrong and unjust, because in no other case, such as through the justice system, is it right or legal or acceptable to scapegoat somebody like this. How do Christians who have accepted the salvation of Jesus feel about this?

Nothing offensive about this. Everything you say is right, it's completely unfair for someone to die and take the sins of the world for us even though the person who died and suffered did nothing wrong.

As a Christian myself, I am grateful for what he did for me because I don't deserve it. I live a life to make sure that I don't let his death be in vain by following his teachings and doing my best to be a better Christian.

Next question, what is a better Christian?

Someone who recognizes that they are a sinner and deserve death and going through life with the intent of following the words of the bible and listening to the commands of Jesus. Being reborn is more than just accepting Jesus died on the cross, but living a life that follows his teachings. Not committing adultery, not getting drunk etc. Are you going to be perfect, no. I'm the farthest from perfect. But every day I try to draw closer to God and turn away from sin.
Latinobull14
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Posted on 08:21:21 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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Bumfluff [969606]
Who is Jesus praying to in the garden of Gethsemane? (Matthew 26:36-44)

Specifically at Matthew 26:39,how can Jesus say “let not my will but your will take place”? If Jesus is God why do their wills differ?

Similarly, Jesus said he came to Earth not to do his will but the will of he who sent him, if Jesus is God, then who sent him? John 6:38

There’s plenty more reasoning to disprove a trinitarian view, I myself am Christian but have found that the scriptures indicate Jesus is not God, but clearly as you mentioned, God’s son, the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15)

Some interesting points here. Important to understand some context here.

When Jesus came down from heaven it's important to realize that he is 100% God but also 100% human. So when he comes down to earth, he has human temptation and human will. As humans, we don't want to suffer and get tortured, especially if we know what's to come. Our natural will as humans is to run away and avoid suffering if possible,

So going back to the points that you made. In Mathew 26, the prayer to God says "not my will but your will be done". His human will is to not suffer, but having a human will doesn't neglect the fact that he isn't God. Again back to the 100% God and 100% human concept. (Granted, this verse doesn't prove that he is God)

Involving John 6:38 he is Sent by God the Father. But there is God the Father and God the Son.
Now again these verses doesn't prove that Jesus is God. To prove that Jesus is God it's a mix of him claiming to be God(John 8:58), him being the one and only person to resurrect themselves from death, and the eyewitness accounts of how he lived his life during his time.

Colossians 1:15 uses the word firstborn which in modern language refers to first created. But at that time, firstborn refers to having authority over others or superiority. A good example of this is in Psalms 89:27. David is referred to as firstborn even though he was Jesse's youngest son. David was firstborn due to his rule over Israel. So Paul isn't referring to Jesus as first created but as authority over all creation.

Who has authority over all creation? God
NeoRobinFox
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Posted on 08:27:48 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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How did dying on a cross save us?
Bumfluff
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Posted on 08:30:32 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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Bumfluff [969606]
Who is Jesus praying to in the garden of Gethsemane? (Matthew 26:36-44)

Specifically at Matthew 26:39,how can Jesus say “let not my will but your will take place”? If Jesus is God why do their wills differ?

Similarly, Jesus said he came to Earth not to do his will but the will of he who sent him, if Jesus is God, then who sent him? John 6:38

There’s plenty more reasoning to disprove a trinitarian view, I myself am Christian but have found that the scriptures indicate Jesus is not God, but clearly as you mentioned, God’s son, the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15)
Latinobull14 [2881384]
Some interesting points here. Important to understand some context here.

When Jesus came down from heaven it's important to realize that he is 100% God but also 100% human. So when he comes down to earth, he has human temptation and human will. As humans, we don't want to suffer and get tortured, especially if we know what's to come. Our natural will as humans is to run away and avoid suffering if possible,

So going back to the points that you made. In Mathew 26, the prayer to God says "not my will but your will be done". His human will is to not suffer, but having a human will doesn't neglect the fact that he isn't God. Again back to the 100% God and 100% human concept. (Granted, this verse doesn't prove that he is God)

Involving John 6:38 he is Sent by God the Father. But there is God the Father and God the Son.
Now again these verses doesn't prove that Jesus is God. To prove that Jesus is God it's a mix of him claiming to be God(John 8:58), him being the one and only person to resurrect themselves from death, and the eyewitness accounts of how he lived his life during his time.

Colossians 1:15 uses the word firstborn which in modern language refers to first created. But at that time, firstborn refers to having authority over others or superiority. A good example of this is in Psalms 89:27. David is referred to as firstborn even though he was Jesse's youngest son. David was firstborn due to his rule over Israel. So Paul isn't referring to Jesus as first created but as authority over all creation.

Who has authority over all creation? God

You mention John 8:58, but that’s just Jesus claiming to have existed before Abraham, which as God’s firstborn creation, he would have existed as an angel in heaven before he was sent to the earth.

1 Corinthians 15:24 says that Jesus hands over the kingdom to his father…

1 Corinthians 15:27,28 refers to a time when Jesus (the son) subjects himself to God. This is talking about Jesus in heaven, so how can Jesus subject himself to himself or hand the kingdom over to himself?
Nexus
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Posted on 08:49:27 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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EverleighRaven [2949890]
So I'm not Christian, and I don't mean to offend anybody with this, but I feel it is wrong for someone completely innocent, such as Jesus in this case, to be punished, tortured, and killed for my wrongdoings, which are completely MY fault, while I get to escape punishment and get a free ticket to heaven. I feel that accepting such a deal is wrong and unjust, because in no other case, such as through the justice system, is it right or legal or acceptable to scapegoat somebody like this. How do Christians who have accepted the salvation of Jesus feel about this?
Latinobull14 [2881384]
Nothing offensive about this. Everything you say is right, it's completely unfair for someone to die and take the sins of the world for us even though the person who died and suffered did nothing wrong.

As a Christian myself, I am grateful for what he did for me because I don't deserve it. I live a life to make sure that I don't let his death be in vain by following his teachings and doing my best to be a better Christian.

Next question, what is a better Christian?

Someone who recognizes that they are a sinner and deserve death and going through life with the intent of following the words of the bible and listening to the commands of Jesus. Being reborn is more than just accepting Jesus died on the cross, but living a life that follows his teachings. Not committing adultery, not getting drunk etc. Are you going to be perfect, no. I'm the farthest from perfect. But every day I try to draw closer to God and turn away from sin.

So Jesus, who is God, died for you (he didn't really die though, cos he's God) because he/God arbitrarily declared humanity (his allegendly perfect creation) as sinners, because a long time ago in a galaxy far away...two people ate some fruit that a talking snake told them to eat?

The snake who was a fallen angel, who managed to wage a war against someone "all powerful", who for some reaeon couldn't just snap his fingers and win.

And then they (humans) were punished for it, even though it was before they could tell the difference between "right and wrong", because they hadn't eaten the fruit yet...

You not see any problems with that?

Last edited by Nexus on 08:53:23 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
Latinobull14
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Posted on 09:07:54 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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Bumfluff [969606]
Who is Jesus praying to in the garden of Gethsemane? (Matthew 26:36-44)

Specifically at Matthew 26:39,how can Jesus say “let not my will but your will take place”? If Jesus is God why do their wills differ?

Similarly, Jesus said he came to Earth not to do his will but the will of he who sent him, if Jesus is God, then who sent him? John 6:38

There’s plenty more reasoning to disprove a trinitarian view, I myself am Christian but have found that the scriptures indicate Jesus is not God, but clearly as you mentioned, God’s son, the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15)
Latinobull14 [2881384]
Some interesting points here. Important to understand some context here.

When Jesus came down from heaven it's important to realize that he is 100% God but also 100% human. So when he comes down to earth, he has human temptation and human will. As humans, we don't want to suffer and get tortured, especially if we know what's to come. Our natural will as humans is to run away and avoid suffering if possible,

So going back to the points that you made. In Mathew 26, the prayer to God says "not my will but your will be done". His human will is to not suffer, but having a human will doesn't neglect the fact that he isn't God. Again back to the 100% God and 100% human concept. (Granted, this verse doesn't prove that he is God)

Involving John 6:38 he is Sent by God the Father. But there is God the Father and God the Son.
Now again these verses doesn't prove that Jesus is God. To prove that Jesus is God it's a mix of him claiming to be God(John 8:58), him being the one and only person to resurrect themselves from death, and the eyewitness accounts of how he lived his life during his time.

Colossians 1:15 uses the word firstborn which in modern language refers to first created. But at that time, firstborn refers to having authority over others or superiority. A good example of this is in Psalms 89:27. David is referred to as firstborn even though he was Jesse's youngest son. David was firstborn due to his rule over Israel. So Paul isn't referring to Jesus as first created but as authority over all creation.

Who has authority over all creation? God
Bumfluff [969606]
You mention John 8:58, but that’s just Jesus claiming to have existed before Abraham, which as God’s firstborn creation, he would have existed as an angel in heaven before he was sent to the earth.

1 Corinthians 15:24 says that Jesus hands over the kingdom to his father…

1 Corinthians 15:27,28 refers to a time when Jesus (the son) subjects himself to God. This is talking about Jesus in heaven, so how can Jesus subject himself to himself or hand the kingdom over to himself?

Referencing John 8:58 shows that Jesus always existed. Again taking the word firstborn to be not first created but to have authority over, Jesus always had existed from the very beginning. The same Father God always existed, Jesus always existed referring to him as God.

Another thing to understand about the idea of both of them being God is that they each have their roles but they are one title sort of speak. It's not that they are the same person, that isn't my argument. But the fact that they are sharing the same title with different roles. To kind of display it in simple terms, Father God creates the plan, and Jesus is the tool or the one to start it.

So in referencing 1 Corinthians 15, I'm not saying that Jesus and Father God is the same person. But they are 2 different entities with the same title. This explains how Jesus can hand over the kingdom to God but still be God himself.

Another point that solidifies my belief in the Trinity and that Jesus is God is Matthew 28:19. "Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." - NLT

If we are doing actions that will praise and glorify God, we don't do it in the name of an angel or of a prophet. But in the name of God. When I pray, I pray to God, not to an angel or King David. Why would Jesus say to baptize in all three names if we only give glory to God? To my understanding, it's because they are all God.

Again, they are not all one person, but 3 entities sharing the same title.
Latinobull14
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Posted on 09:17:58 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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NeoRobinFox [2862125]
How did dying on a cross save us?

So the gospel is that we as humans are sinful creatures and deserve death. Sin is referring to things that go against the word of God. Lying, sex before marriage, getting drunk, pride, etc. We all fall short. Instead of us dying for our sins, Jesus came down in human form and took the punishment for our sins by dying for us on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice so we can have a second chance at redemption. This symbolizes the grace of God towards us and us being able to avoid that death if we turn to God.

Now to get a bit historical on it, before Jesus to be atoned or cleaned from your sins, it required a blood sacrifice of an animal due to the law of Jewish tradition. Don't remember all the criteria but it had to be blameless and clean to be sacrificed. Jesus, being revealed as a man who never sinned and being 100% God while being 100% man was the ultimate sacrifice due to the clean and blameless life that he lived.
Xkhoagu
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Posted on 09:20:35 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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Amen

Last edited by Xkhoagu on 09:22:21 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
Aresio
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Posted on 09:22:35 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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This is one heavy topic
Bumfluff
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Posted on 09:25:36 - 17/11/23 (1 year ago)
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Bumfluff [969606]
Who is Jesus praying to in the garden of Gethsemane? (Matthew 26:36-44)

Specifically at Matthew 26:39,how can Jesus say “let not my will but your will take place”? If Jesus is God why do their wills differ?

Similarly, Jesus said he came to Earth not to do his will but the will of he who sent him, if Jesus is God, then who sent him? John 6:38

There’s plenty more reasoning to disprove a trinitarian view, I myself am Christian but have found that the scriptures indicate Jesus is not God, but clearly as you mentioned, God’s son, the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15)
Latinobull14 [2881384]
Some interesting points here. Important to understand some context here.

When Jesus came down from heaven it's important to realize that he is 100% God but also 100% human. So when he comes down to earth, he has human temptation and human will. As humans, we don't want to suffer and get tortured, especially if we know what's to come. Our natural will as humans is to run away and avoid suffering if possible,

So going back to the points that you made. In Mathew 26, the prayer to God says "not my will but your will be done". His human will is to not suffer, but having a human will doesn't neglect the fact that he isn't God. Again back to the 100% God and 100% human concept. (Granted, this verse doesn't prove that he is God)

Involving John 6:38 he is Sent by God the Father. But there is God the Father and God the Son.
Now again these verses doesn't prove that Jesus is God. To prove that Jesus is God it's a mix of him claiming to be God(John 8:58), him being the one and only person to resurrect themselves from death, and the eyewitness accounts of how he lived his life during his time.

Colossians 1:15 uses the word firstborn which in modern language refers to first created. But at that time, firstborn refers to having authority over others or superiority. A good example of this is in Psalms 89:27. David is referred to as firstborn even though he was Jesse's youngest son. David was firstborn due to his rule over Israel. So Paul isn't referring to Jesus as first created but as authority over all creation.

Who has authority over all creation? God
Bumfluff [969606]
You mention John 8:58, but that’s just Jesus claiming to have existed before Abraham, which as God’s firstborn creation, he would have existed as an angel in heaven before he was sent to the earth.

1 Corinthians 15:24 says that Jesus hands over the kingdom to his father…

1 Corinthians 15:27,28 refers to a time when Jesus (the son) subjects himself to God. This is talking about Jesus in heaven, so how can Jesus subject himself to himself or hand the kingdom over to himself?
Latinobull14 [2881384]
Referencing John 8:58 shows that Jesus always existed. Again taking the word firstborn to be not first created but to have authority over, Jesus always had existed from the very beginning. The same Father God always existed, Jesus always existed referring to him as God.

Another thing to understand about the idea of both of them being God is that they each have their roles but they are one title sort of speak. It's not that they are the same person, that isn't my argument. But the fact that they are sharing the same title with different roles. To kind of display it in simple terms, Father God creates the plan, and Jesus is the tool or the one to start it.

So in referencing 1 Corinthians 15, I'm not saying that Jesus and Father God is the same person. But they are 2 different entities with the same title. This explains how Jesus can hand over the kingdom to God but still be God himself.

Another point that solidifies my belief in the Trinity and that Jesus is God is Matthew 28:19. "Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." - NLT

If we are doing actions that will praise and glorify God, we don't do it in the name of an angel or of a prophet. But in the name of God. When I pray, I pray to God, not to an angel or King David. Why would Jesus say to baptize in all three names if we only give glory to God? To my understanding, it's because they are all God.

Again, they are not all one person, but 3 entities sharing the same title.

But John 8:58 doesn’t say that Jesus has ALWAYS existed.

You’re contradicting yourself though, you say Jesus and God are not the same person, but that Jesus is God?

I would agree that Jesus is given a level of authority by God, but is in no way God, and is always referred to as the Son of God as a distinct different person.

With regards to Matthew 28:19, that text does not say that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are equal, or that they are all God, it simply mentions them together, that people should be baptised in the name of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit.

The reason all three are mentioned is to give recognition of the Father, Jehovah God, is natural, since he is our Creator and Life-Giver. (Ps 36:7,9;Re 4:11) However, the Bible also shows that no human can gain salvation without recognizing the role of the Son in God’s purpose. (Joh 14:6;Ac 4:12) It is also vital to recognize the role of God’s holy spirit because, among other things, God uses his active force to give life (Job 33:4), to inspire his message to humans (2Pe 1:21), and to empower them to do his will (Ro 15:19).

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