The world is going crazy! | General Non-related | TORN
The world is going crazy!
  • MaxDamage [2216723]MaxDamage [2216723]
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    Thread created on 23:25:17 - 15/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    Last replied 22:09:49 - 22/10/21 (2 hours ago)
    I don't often post in the forums, partly because English isn't my native language, but I really need to go on a rant here about these Covid-19 vaccination campaigns.

    Offcourse I don't really know how the exact situation is in other countries, but in my home country Belgium things are getting pretty crazy.

    About 9 months ago our government told us we'd have the choice on whether or not we'd take the vaccine and it is completely voluntary. And we still do, except we don't. The thing is we are getting manipulated from all directions and forced into submission. Let me clarify with a few examples:

    - This summer me and a few friends had planned to go on a multi-dayhiking trip in the Alpes in France. The only problem is I'm not vaccinated. Every hotel, restaurant or pub you enter in France requires you to have a valid covid safe certificate. You get one of these certificates by either proving your vaccinated, have healed from Covid 19, or have been tested negative in the past 24 hours. Since there is no way I can get tested every 24hr in the middle of the Alpes, I had no choice to stay at home and have my friends go without me.

    - I went to a few festivals this summer, but in order to be allowed to these festivals I had to drive to a covid 19 testing center two days before, get these swab sticks shoved up my nose, and pay 55€ per test (150€ if I wanted fast results). So i basically paid over double the price for each festival.

    - There was some kind of fair here in my town past weekend, it was very crowded, and people bumping into each other all the time; face masks were no longer necessary so I went out and grabbed a few drinks there. I came up to this little stage where a few artists would sing and perform. But even tough that was way less dense packed then every other part of the fair I had just been too, I was denied entry because I didnt have a valid covid certifcate. If I wanted to grab a few drinks there, I'd have to go get tested yet again, drive to a testing location, pay 55€, wait for the results, return a few hours later, only to drink a few 2$ beers.

    - A new law is beeing passed that will prevent anyone who isn't vaccinated from entering a hospital. In other words, because I don't want to take risks with my body, my family and friends will no longer be able to receive any supporting hospital visits from me.

    - Every day we are beeing bombarded with television broadcasts, commercials, online news articles, etc... that keep telling us how safe the vaccine is, that we should get it asap, and that those who don't are selfish who don't care about other people or ending this pandemic. And what's worse because it's getting repeated so often, people have started to believe it, and every vaccinated person now frowns upon those that aren't. Apparantly everything is their fault.

    I am not selfish and I want the world go back to normal and out of this draconian/dystopian world we live in more then anyone else.
    But I refuse to take a vaccine that has been developed in under a year by major companies racing to the finish line trying to make a profit from which the long term consequenes are still unknown. To me that is a significant risk, and a potentially bigger one then dealing with the effects or covid-19.

    Every week that passes, the (social) pressure increases on the non-vaccinated. And I feel it won't be very long before we'll have to choose between our job and our principles. In fact, those who work in the health care sector have already had to made that choice. So if i lose my job and all of my freedom, or get arrested for going outside somewhere in the near future, so be it!

    But I will continue to stand for my principles and what I believe in!
    And please.... STOP THIS MADNESS!!!

    Pandemics don't end with vaccines. They end when people stop fearing the disease.

  •   Wind [444051]Wind [444051]
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    Posted on 23:32:28 - 15/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    If you’re really willing to throw your whole life away to throw a hissy fit, then good. 


    Personally I’m glad that all the conspiracy theorist anti-science pukes are being pushed to the sidelines. If you don’t want to do your part to help society, then you shouldn’t get to participate in it.
    Last edited by Wind on 18:09:46 - 16/09/21
    Harder.Better.Faster.Stronger.
  • MaxDamage [2216723]MaxDamage [2216723]
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    Posted on 23:49:58 - 15/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    Wind [444051]

    If you’re really willing to throw your whole life away to throw a hissy fit, then good.


    Personally I’m glad that all the conspiracy theorist anti-science pukes are being pushed to the sidelines. If you don’t want to do your part to help society, then you shouldn’t get to participate in it.
    THIS is exactly what I'm talking about.and what I expected as a reply.
    Everybody's been brainwashed into believing the non vaccinated are the bad guys.
    What makes you think they do less to help society then others?
    Last edited by MaxDamage on 23:51:05 - 15/09/21

    Pandemics don't end with vaccines. They end when people stop fearing the disease.

  •   Wind [444051]Wind [444051]
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    Posted on 23:59:03 - 15/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    Wind [444051]

    If you’re really willing to throw your whole life away to throw a hissy fit, then good.


    Personally I’m glad that all the conspiracy theorist anti-science pukes are being pushed to the sidelines. If you don’t want to do your part to help society, then you shouldn’t get to participate in it.

    MaxDamage [2216723]

    THIS is exactly what I'm talking about.and what I expected as a reply.
    Everybody's been brainwashed into believing the non vaccinated are the bad guys.
    What makes you think they do less to help society then others?
    You are actively helping give a virus that has already caused humanity far more trouble than it ever should have more chances to further mutate. You are contributing to the potential spread of a virus that WILL kill at least SOME people.

    The vaccine is FREE. It is WIDELY AVAILABLE. Documented adverse effects are LESS THAN minimal. There is no excuse not to get it at this point other than to be defiant for the express purpose of defiance.

    You quote “principles and what I believe in”. What principles? That “I shouldn’t have to do what the big bad government tells me to do”? That’s a toddler’s reply.


    I know I’m not going to change your mind so I’m not going to try. Just know that if you throw away your job, right to travel, etc. etc. away in defiance of a basic public health measure you deserve it for being a selfish ignoramus.
    Harder.Better.Faster.Stronger.
  • MaxDamage [2216723]MaxDamage [2216723]
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    Posted on 00:21:12 - 16/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    Wind [444051]

    If you’re really willing to throw your whole life away to throw a hissy fit, then good.


    Personally I’m glad that all the conspiracy theorist anti-science pukes are being pushed to the sidelines. If you don’t want to do your part to help society, then you shouldn’t get to participate in it.

    MaxDamage [2216723]

    THIS is exactly what I'm talking about.and what I expected as a reply.
    Everybody's been brainwashed into believing the non vaccinated are the bad guys.
    What makes you think they do less to help society then others?

    Wind [444051]

    You are actively helping give a virus that has already caused humanity far more trouble than it ever should have more chances to further mutate. You are contributing to the potential spread of a virus that WILL kill at least SOME people.

    The vaccine is FREE. It is WIDELY AVAILABLE. Documented adverse effects are LESS THAN minimal. There is no excuse not to get it at this point other than to be defiant for the express purpose of defiance.

    You quote “principles and what I believe in”. What principles? That “I shouldn’t have to do what the big bad government tells me to do”? That’s a toddler’s reply.


    I know I’m not going to change your mind so I’m not going to try. Just know that if you throw away your job, right to travel, etc. etc. away in defiance of a basic public health measure you deserve it for being a selfish ignoramus.
    Have you ever had a cold? Did you quarantaine when you did? Did you wear a mask every time you went out?
    Because if you haven't, you were ALSO contributing to the potential spread of a virus that killed at least SOME people.
    Should we ban cars because there's thousands of car accidents that kill people every week?

    The vaccine is free because you would get it!
    A safe vaccine usually takes between 10-20 years to get developed (in most cases). Most of these covid vaccines were developed in under a year!
    Not to mention no disease has ever been eradicated by a vaccine, except for a single one....
    These vaccines have been made by companies trying to make a massive profit by beeing first.
    The long term consequences are UNTESTED and UNKNOWN and that is a RISK.

    I know I won't change your beliefs either because my single opinion could never match this global media campaign.
    I do not have any problem with people who are pro-vaccine. It's their opinion and if they want to take that risk, that's fine.

    What I do have a problem with is people like you labelling the non vaccinated as selfish.
    Last edited by MaxDamage on 00:26:03 - 16/09/21

    Pandemics don't end with vaccines. They end when people stop fearing the disease.

  • PoP angrysc0tsman12 [1099272]angrysc0tsman12 [1099272]
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    Posted on 02:45:12 - 16/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    MaxDamage [2216723]

    I don't often post in the forums, partly because English isn't my native language, but I really need to go on a rant here about these Covid-19 vaccination campaigns.

    Offcourse I don't really know how the exact situation is in other countries, but in my home country Belgium things are getting pretty crazy.

    About 9 months ago our government told us we'd have the choice on whether or not we'd take the vaccine and it is completely voluntary. And we still do, except we don't. The thing is we are getting manipulated from all directions and forced into submission. Let me clarify with a few examples:

    - This summer me and a few friends had planned to go on a multi-dayhiking trip in the Alpes in France. The only problem is I'm not vaccinated. Every hotel, restaurant or pub you enter in France requires you to have a valid covid safe certificate. You get one of these certificates by either proving your vaccinated, have healed from Covid 19, or have been tested negative in the past 24 hours. Since there is no way I can get tested every 24hr in the middle of the Alpes, I had no choice to stay at home and have my friends go without me.

    - I went to a few festivals this summer, but in order to be allowed to these festivals I had to drive to a covid 19 testing center two days before, get these swab sticks shoved up my nose, and pay 55€ per test (150€ if I wanted fast results). So i basically paid over double the price for each festival.

    - There was some kind of fair here in my town past weekend, it was very crowded, and people bumping into each other all the time; face masks were no longer necessary so I went out and grabbed a few drinks there. I came up to this little stage where a few artists would sing and perform. But even tough that was way less dense packed then every other part of the fair I had just been too, I was denied entry because I didnt have a valid covid certifcate. If I wanted to grab a few drinks there, I'd have to go get tested yet again, drive to a testing location, pay 55€, wait for the results, return a few hours later, only to drink a few 2$ beers.

    - A new law is beeing passed that will prevent anyone who isn't vaccinated from entering a hospital. In other words, because I don't want to take risks with my body, my family and friends will no longer be able to receive any supporting hospital visits from me.

    - Every day we are beeing bombarded with television broadcasts, commercials, online news articles, etc... that keep telling us how safe the vaccine is, that we should get it asap, and that those who don't are selfish who don't care about other people or ending this pandemic. And what's worse because it's getting repeated so often, people have started to believe it, and every vaccinated person now frowns upon those that aren't. Apparantly everything is their fault.

    I am not selfish and I want the world go back to normal and out of this draconian/dystopian world we live in more then anyone else.
    But I refuse to take a vaccine that has been developed in under a year by major companies racing to the finish line trying to make a profit from which the long term consequenes are still unknown. To me that is a significant risk, and a potentially bigger one then dealing with the effects or covid-19.

    Every week that passes, the (social) pressure increases on the non-vaccinated. And I feel it won't be very long before we'll have to choose between our job and our principles. In fact, those who work in the health care sector have already had to made that choice. So if i lose my job and all of my freedom, or get arrested for going outside somewhere in the near future, so be it!

    But I will continue to stand for my principles and what I believe in!
    And please.... STOP THIS MADNESS!!!
    Not sure what you expect to get out of this. While I sympathize that you have faced adversity due to your vaccination status, this is entirely self induced. At this point (at least in America), this pandemic is largely one of the unvaccinated. It doesn't make unvaccinated "bad guys" so to speak, rather it is what it is; it's just the reality of the situation.

    One of the main reasons people tend to think badly of unvaccinated is the second order effects their getting sick has on healthcare infrastructure. I'm from the US and where vaccination rates are low, our hospitals are getting slammed with COVID patients. The unfortunate side effect of this crush is that people with other ailments are now dying because they can't find places to treat them. At this point 1 in 500 Americans has died of COVID which is a goddamn tragedy and future deaths are entirely preventable.

    That said I'd like to address some of your concerns you posted in your later post.

    A safe vaccine usually takes between 10-20 years to get developed (in most cases). Most of these covid vaccines were developed in under a year!

    This is true. Under normal circumstances you're looking at a 10 year development cycle. However this is unique for a number of factors. 1. Governments pulled out all the stops and basically wrote a blank check to the pharmaceutical industry to prioritize R&D of a COVID vaccine. 2. Steps which were normally done in series were pulled forward to be conducted in parallel. 3. mRNA vaccine technology, while new, has been in development for the better part of a decade.

    Not to mention no disease has ever been eradicated by a vaccine, except for a single one....

    We aren't trying to eradicate COVID-19. We are trying to get to a point where living with it is manageable.

    These vaccines have been made by companies trying to make a massive profit by beeing first.

    Supply and demand. There is a demand for a vaccine and the private sector is able to meet that demand. Given that there is no public sector alternative, for profit companies are what we will have to go with for vaccine manufacturing.

    The long term consequences are UNTESTED and UNKNOWN and that is a RISK.

    This is true. We do not know the long term consequences of the vaccines which is why that is being evaluated. However we do know what the effects of COVID are which I would say are most likely more serious.
  • NUKE A_Mean_Person [1631303]A_Mean_Person [1631303]
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    Posted on 12:54:26 - 16/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    MaxDamage [2216723]

    I don't often post in the forums, partly because English isn't my native language, but I really need to go on a rant here about these Covid-19 vaccination campaigns.

    Offcourse I don't really know how the exact situation is in other countries, but in my home country Belgium things are getting pretty crazy.

    About 9 months ago our government told us we'd have the choice on whether or not we'd take the vaccine and it is completely voluntary. And we still do, except we don't. The thing is we are getting manipulated from all directions and forced into submission. Let me clarify with a few examples:

    - This summer me and a few friends had planned to go on a multi-dayhiking trip in the Alpes in France. The only problem is I'm not vaccinated. Every hotel, restaurant or pub you enter in France requires you to have a valid covid safe certificate. You get one of these certificates by either proving your vaccinated, have healed from Covid 19, or have been tested negative in the past 24 hours. Since there is no way I can get tested every 24hr in the middle of the Alpes, I had no choice to stay at home and have my friends go without me.

    - I went to a few festivals this summer, but in order to be allowed to these festivals I had to drive to a covid 19 testing center two days before, get these swab sticks shoved up my nose, and pay 55€ per test (150€ if I wanted fast results). So i basically paid over double the price for each festival.

    - There was some kind of fair here in my town past weekend, it was very crowded, and people bumping into each other all the time; face masks were no longer necessary so I went out and grabbed a few drinks there. I came up to this little stage where a few artists would sing and perform. But even tough that was way less dense packed then every other part of the fair I had just been too, I was denied entry because I didnt have a valid covid certifcate. If I wanted to grab a few drinks there, I'd have to go get tested yet again, drive to a testing location, pay 55€, wait for the results, return a few hours later, only to drink a few 2$ beers.

    - A new law is beeing passed that will prevent anyone who isn't vaccinated from entering a hospital. In other words, because I don't want to take risks with my body, my family and friends will no longer be able to receive any supporting hospital visits from me.

    - Every day we are beeing bombarded with television broadcasts, commercials, online news articles, etc... that keep telling us how safe the vaccine is, that we should get it asap, and that those who don't are selfish who don't care about other people or ending this pandemic. And what's worse because it's getting repeated so often, people have started to believe it, and every vaccinated person now frowns upon those that aren't. Apparantly everything is their fault.

    I am not selfish and I want the world go back to normal and out of this draconian/dystopian world we live in more then anyone else.
    But I refuse to take a vaccine that has been developed in under a year by major companies racing to the finish line trying to make a profit from which the long term consequenes are still unknown. To me that is a significant risk, and a potentially bigger one then dealing with the effects or covid-19.

    Every week that passes, the (social) pressure increases on the non-vaccinated. And I feel it won't be very long before we'll have to choose between our job and our principles. In fact, those who work in the health care sector have already had to made that choice. So if i lose my job and all of my freedom, or get arrested for going outside somewhere in the near future, so be it!

    But I will continue to stand for my principles and what I believe in!
    And please.... STOP THIS MADNESS!!!
    Oah no... Poor you... 

    If it is such a hassle, you can always just get covid instead of the vaccine... After you recover it would solve your issues on a few places... Smell and taste are overrated anyways.

    Or is covid "development time" an issue for you too?

    But anyways, don't see anything forcing you to be vaccinated, there seems to be an alternative to everything you posted as an issue (get a valid test within a specific timeframe)... Tough luck if its an incovinience for you...

    Can't really simpatize with stupid. Sorry...


    Also a couple of things about your post:

    Not all companies are selling vaccines for profit, Astrazeneca was, and i think still is selling it at cost.

    Moving crowds (like a fair) are less likely to cause you enough exposure to get infected than a stagnent one (concert).

    Because some particular individuals are morons does not mean immunocompromised patients that are not should suffer the consequences. (This works for non vaccinated hospital staff and visitors)

    Vaccines not only protect yourself, but also make you 75%+ less likely to pass covid on to others when infected.

  • SPCR Phil-I-P [2035498]Phil-I-P [2035498]
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    Posted on 22:57:29 - 16/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    No freedom of movement within the EU?

    I guess Brexiteers aren't the buttocks of the joke anymore.

  • MaxDamage [2216723]MaxDamage [2216723]
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    Posted on 23:25:27 - 16/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    I am not expecting anything out of this post nor am I looking for any sympathy. But I do find it very frustrating that everyone just seems to be blindly folliwing the masses, the media, the governments, and accept everything they have been told as 100% truth instead of doing some real research. The whole covid situation is beeing overly dramaticized with us beeing bombarded in the news with interviews from dying people, overcrowded hospitals, etc... However, what you'll never hear about or gets censored is the opinion of those who are unwilling to take the vaccine and why. As much as I would like to save every people's life on the planet, we also got to be realistic and accept the fact that we will never be able to prevent all deaths and that trying to save them all might come at an ever bigger cost.

    Angryscotsman talked about 1 in 500 have died from Covid in the US. 1 out of 107 people have also died in car accidents...
    We don't shutdown traffic to save 1 out of 107 people, so we shouldnt shutdown the economy to save 1 in 500 either.
    Because of the all the lockdowns and insane rules billions of people have become depressed, millions have lost their jobs, got divorced, or commited suicide. Is that really all worth it to prevent a few extra deaths from Covid 19?

    Covid 19 has roughly caused around twice as many deaths as from the flu, and is roughly around twice as contagious. Granted, if it wasnt for all the travel bans, lockdowns, and other measures these casualties might've been a little higher, but still. It's not the plague and we shouldn't treat it like it is..

    Pandemics don't end with vaccines, they end when people stop fearing the disease.

    Pandemics don't end with vaccines. They end when people stop fearing the disease.

  • NUKE A_Mean_Person [1631303]A_Mean_Person [1631303]
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    Posted on 00:18:14 - 17/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    MaxDamage [2216723]

    I am not expecting anything out of this post nor am I looking for any sympathy. But I do find it very frustrating that everyone just seems to be blindly folliwing the masses, the media, the governments, and accept everything they have been told as 100% truth instead of doing some real research. The whole covid situation is beeing overly dramaticized with us beeing bombarded in the news with interviews from dying people, overcrowded hospitals, etc... However, what you'll never hear about or gets censored is the opinion of those who are unwilling to take the vaccine and why. As much as I would like to save every people's life on the planet, we also got to be realistic and accept the fact that we will never be able to prevent all deaths and that trying to save them all might come at an ever bigger cost.

    Angryscotsman talked about 1 in 500 have died from Covid in the US. 1 out of 107 people have also died in car accidents...
    We don't shutdown traffic to save 1 out of 107 people, so we shouldnt shutdown the economy to save 1 in 500 either.
    Because of the all the lockdowns and insane rules billions of people have become depressed, millions have lost their jobs, got divorced, or commited suicide. Is that really all worth it to prevent a few extra deaths from Covid 19?

    Covid 19 has roughly caused around twice as many deaths as from the flu, and is roughly around twice as contagious. Granted, if it wasnt for all the travel bans, lockdowns, and other measures these casualties might've been a little higher, but still. It's not the plague and we shouldn't treat it like it is..

    Pandemics don't end with vaccines, they end when people stop fearing the disease.
    Oah, the ones that actually follow the scientific evidence with proper studies are the blind ones that can't do their research... 

    Do point us to your "real research". Published in any decent journal and peer reviewed. I'm all up for reading conclusive studies with a significant sample that support your fear of this particular vaccine.

    As for your opninions getting censored, might have to do with news outlets not really being all that keen on sharing missinformation, with no scientific basis, that some quacks decide to take as their "real research"...

    Also would love to know your background, since you seem to know better how to deal with a pandemic than any expert on public health.

    You know those overcrowded hospitals you mentioned? While resources get allocated to deal Covid 19, it means they had to be taken from other places, meaning there is a lot more people lacking proper treatment and likely dying from other preventible causes.

    Thankfully, because most population are not morons, the influx of serious cases have been massively reduced with vaccination and health care can start to normalize on other sectors.
    Last edited by A_Mean_Person on 00:25:17 - 17/09/21

  • PT SporkMonkey [2065017]SporkMonkey [2065017]
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    Posted on 00:25:51 - 17/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    Personally, if someone believes that an unvaccinated person is a danger to a vaccinated person because they could infect them with a disease they are vaccinated for, well, that person is kinda stupid.
  •   Wind [444051]Wind [444051]
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    Posted on 02:47:54 - 17/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    MaxDamage [2216723]

    I am not expecting anything out of this post nor am I looking for any sympathy. But I do find it very frustrating that everyone just seems to be blindly folliwing the masses, the media, the governments, and accept everything they have been told as 100% truth instead of doing some real research. The whole covid situation is beeing overly dramaticized with us beeing bombarded in the news with interviews from dying people, overcrowded hospitals, etc... However, what you'll never hear about or gets censored is the opinion of those who are unwilling to take the vaccine and why. As much as I would like to save every people's life on the planet, we also got to be realistic and accept the fact that we will never be able to prevent all deaths and that trying to save them all might come at an ever bigger cost.

    Angryscotsman talked about 1 in 500 have died from Covid in the US. 1 out of 107 people have also died in car accidents...
    We don't shutdown traffic to save 1 out of 107 people, so we shouldnt shutdown the economy to save 1 in 500 either.
    Because of the all the lockdowns and insane rules billions of people have become depressed, millions have lost their jobs, got divorced, or commited suicide. Is that really all worth it to prevent a few extra deaths from Covid 19?

    Covid 19 has roughly caused around twice as many deaths as from the flu, and is roughly around twice as contagious. Granted, if it wasnt for all the travel bans, lockdowns, and other measures these casualties might've been a little higher, but still. It's not the plague and we shouldn't treat it like it is..

    Pandemics don't end with vaccines, they end when people stop fearing the disease.

    A_Mean_Person [1631303]

    Oah, the ones that actually follow the scientific evidence with proper studies are the blind ones that can't do their research...

    Do point us to your "real research". Published in any decent journal and peer reviewed. I'm all up for reading conclusive studies with a significant sample that support your fear of this particular vaccine.

    As for your opninions getting censored, might have to do with news outlets not really being all that keen on sharing missinformation, with no scientific basis, that some quacks decide to take as their "real research"...

    Also would love to know your background, since you seem to know better how to deal with a pandemic than any expert on public health.

    You know those overcrowded hospitals you mentioned? While resources get allocated to deal Covid 19, it means they had to be taken from other places, meaning there is a lot more people lacking proper treatment and likely dying from other preventible causes.

    Thankfully, because most population are not morons, the influx of serious cases have been massively reduced with vaccination and health care can start to normalize on other sectors.
    Exactly this. People are dying from non-Covid related medical emergencies who otherwise wouldn’t because those same people who don’t trust medical science when healthy rush to gobble up those resources as soon as they realize “uh oh, me no can breathe good”. 


    If there was any justice in the world those people who denied the vaccine would be denied access to an ICU bed.

    Stick to your guns. If it’s just a hoax then stay home when you get sick. You don’t get to flip-flop as soon as your original position becomes inconvenient. Take your horse paste and say three hail Trumps and pray to whatever god you believe in. Leave the beds for those of us who did our part.
    Last edited by Wind on 02:51:16 - 17/09/21
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  • PoP angrysc0tsman12 [1099272]angrysc0tsman12 [1099272]
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    Posted on 05:05:56 - 17/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    MaxDamage [2216723]

    I am not expecting anything out of this post nor am I looking for any sympathy. But I do find it very frustrating that everyone just seems to be blindly folliwing the masses, the media, the governments, and accept everything they have been told as 100% truth instead of doing some real research. The whole covid situation is beeing overly dramaticized with us beeing bombarded in the news with interviews from dying people, overcrowded hospitals, etc... However, what you'll never hear about or gets censored is the opinion of those who are unwilling to take the vaccine and why. As much as I would like to save every people's life on the planet, we also got to be realistic and accept the fact that we will never be able to prevent all deaths and that trying to save them all might come at an ever bigger cost.

    Angryscotsman talked about 1 in 500 have died from Covid in the US. 1 out of 107 people have also died in car accidents...
    We don't shutdown traffic to save 1 out of 107 people, so we shouldnt shutdown the economy to save 1 in 500 either.
    Because of the all the lockdowns and insane rules billions of people have become depressed, millions have lost their jobs, got divorced, or commited suicide. Is that really all worth it to prevent a few extra deaths from Covid 19?

    Covid 19 has roughly caused around twice as many deaths as from the flu, and is roughly around twice as contagious. Granted, if it wasnt for all the travel bans, lockdowns, and other measures these casualties might've been a little higher, but still. It's not the plague and we shouldn't treat it like it is..

    Pandemics don't end with vaccines, they end when people stop fearing the disease.
    Check your math bud. The 1 out of 107 statistic you are citing are your lifetime odds of dying in a car crash in the US; not the actual number of people dying. If 1 out of 107 Americans were dying yearly to car crashes, we'd be looking at about 3 million dead per year from that cause of death alone. The annual number of car crash deaths is around 39,000. Given that the US has around 670,000 deaths due to COVID, you're looking at 17 years worth of equivalent car crash deaths over the span of 18 months. That's something we should be concerned about and act upon. 

    Not sure what you mean by following the masses. I would say that the majority folks are listening to qualified medical experts as they rightly should. If you got on an airplane, would you want the qualified pilot with 3000 flights hours flying the plane or would you rather Bob in row 34B who claims to have played a flight simulator one time fly? You wouldn't.

    With respect to your point about the situation being "dramatized", there is a reason for that and that is because people are getting sick and dying at rates which are overwhelming healthcare infrastructure. There is overwhelming proof which shows that the vaccine either prevents the transmission of COVID or, at a minimum, leads to optimal outcomes when breakthrough cases occur. If showing someone gasping their dying breaths as their body struggles to get the oxygen it needs to survive helps convince someone to get a vaccine, then I'm all for it.

    Where are you getting your data on flu deaths and how are your numbers so remarkable wrong? In the US the 2019-2020 flu season killed around 22,000 people. At the end of 2020, we had over 341,000 COVID deaths (making it the 3rd leading cause of death in the US). That would make COVID about 15 orders of magnitude more deadly than the flu. For something that is "not the plague" it certainly has killed quite a few people.
  • COVY Styledcurve [2493033]Styledcurve [2493033]
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    Posted on 23:50:33 - 17/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    Screw em, I stand with you. Not vaxxed , never getting vaxxed, not with mRNA and its track record and I ain't to keen on the alternative synthisized spike proteins "Believed" be shaped and active like covid, which by the way is now evolving into delta covod already? So them modeled protein spikes match the new evolution? Inquiring mines wanna know.  LoL

    Otherwise I'm fully vaccinated and support vaccination with proven time tested vaxxes.
  • COVY Styledcurve [2493033]Styledcurve [2493033]
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    Posted on 23:53:19 - 17/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    SporkMonkey [2065017]

    Personally, if someone believes that an unvaccinated person is a danger to a vaccinated person because they could infect them with a disease they are vaccinated for, well, that person is kinda stupid.
    vaxxed. Biden did say that this was a pandemic of the unvaccinated...


    I'm sorry for spreading unvaccination. I didnt know that was contagious.
  • PoP angrysc0tsman12 [1099272]angrysc0tsman12 [1099272]
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    Posted on 00:09:42 - 18/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    Styledcurve [2493033]

    Screw em, I stand with you. Not vaxxed , never getting vaxxed, not with mRNA and its track record and I ain't to keen on the alternative synthisized spike proteins "Believed" be shaped and active like covid, which by the way is now evolving into delta covod already? So them modeled protein spikes match the new evolution? Inquiring mines wanna know. LoL

    Otherwise I'm fully vaccinated and support vaccination with proven time tested vaxxes.
    The vaccines track record is very good. Why don't you tell me which group is predominantly dying these days from COVID? You don't want to get the vaccine, fine. You do you. But f**k off with the misinformation bullshit.
  • COVY Styledcurve [2493033]Styledcurve [2493033]
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    Posted on 01:28:21 - 18/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    angrysc0tsman12 [1099272]

    The vaccines track record is very good. Why don't you tell me which group is predominantly dying these days from COVID? You don't want to get the vaccine, fine. You do you. But f**k off with the misinformation bullshit.
    I dont care, I'm still not taking the jab and to the last of my knowledge "unvaccinated" wasnt any communicable disease I ever heard of.

    I will do me. Thank ya very much.
  • PT SporkMonkey [2065017]SporkMonkey [2065017]
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    Posted on 01:37:58 - 18/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    SporkMonkey [2065017]

    Personally, if someone believes that an unvaccinated person is a danger to a vaccinated person because they could infect them with a disease they are vaccinated for, well, that person is kinda stupid.

    Styledcurve [2493033]

    vaxxed. Biden did say that this was a pandemic of the unvaccinated...


    I'm sorry for spreading unvaccination. I didnt know that was contagious.
    This is a pandemic of the diabetics and grossly obese. I have my vaccine as well, but those with the diabeetus are far more at risk than anyone.
  • NS twerkalator [2080083]twerkalator [2080083]
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    Posted on 04:09:41 - 18/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    SporkMonkey [2065017]

    Personally, if someone believes that an unvaccinated person is a danger to a vaccinated person because they could infect them with a disease they are vaccinated for, well, that person is kinda stupid.

    Styledcurve [2493033]

    vaxxed. Biden did say that this was a pandemic of the unvaccinated...


    I'm sorry for spreading unvaccination. I didnt know that was contagious.

    SporkMonkey [2065017]

    This is a pandemic of the diabetics and grossly obese. I have my vaccine as well, but those with the diabeetus are far more at risk than anyone.
    My mom is neither diabetic nor grossly obese and in March 2020 she almost died from pneumonia secondary to COVID-19. This was right before the lockdown and COVID hadn't become the level of hysteria that it did yet. She caught it from an irresponsible person who didn't even cover her mouth and was hacking up a lung all over the place in a Kohl's instead of staying the f**k home and getting better (or going to a damn hospital, who would've thought?)

    You're right that obese and diabetic people are more at risk, but A) not every diabetic is a type II diabetic (they didn't choose whether they'd be diabetic or not) and B) obese people and diabetics are at risk more for everything. Saying that a disease is only a problem for certain risk groups is disingenuous and smacks of the AIDS denialism of the 70's and 80's. They thought that it was a "gay disease" but now 40 years down the line we know anyone can get it and it's not just gay people and drug users. Someone only needs to come into contact with 65,000 copies of the HIV virus to become infected without any prophylaxis, just 1mL of blood in an untreated HIV positive person can contain over 1,000,000 copies. It's in our best interest to find a preventative and a cure - that's why we have PrEP for people who know they may be exposed and PEP for those who have been.

    But as for the rest of this thread:

    The problem isn't a threat that unvaccinated people are a threat to vaccinated people, it's that they're a threat to themselves and their community, as well as immunocompromised people and children that can't get the vaccine. They have just as much of a right to live as the rest of us. Anti-vaccine advocates often invoke the idea of natural or "God-given" rights, and this idea in it's modern conception was pioneered by Thomas Hobbes and John Locke. This is the stuff America and other modern nations were founded on, and it's a truly beautiful idea. The job of a government is to protect their citizens' rights to life, liberty, and property. (We also like to add "pursuit of happiness," but we can just ignore that for now.) The thing is we all have a right to life as much as the rest of us, but that right to life only exists as a right if we all have EQUAL right to life. Just the same, we're all entitled to liberty, or freedom, and property, or estate as Locke originally put it. If you're sharp, you might ask yourself why you only ever see them in this order, and there's a reason for this: Life is the most important one. John Locke said, more or less that the three natural rights are:
    • Life: everyone is entitled to live.
    • Liberty: everyone is entitled to do anything they want to so long as it doesn't conflict with the first right.
    • Estate: everyone is entitled to own all they create or gain through gift or trade so long as it doesn't conflict with the first two rights.

    This goes back to what I said about us all having an equal right to life. We all have that right and that's the most important one. But then we have Liberty. And while we usually are accustomed to view them as separate, they're actually linked together in that the second should not violate the first. By this logic, if we exercise our liberty in a way that puts it above someone else's life, we're really overstepping the scope of our right to Liberty. I would argue that you're bound by your first right to life, and the constitution, to ensure that you take appropriate steps to protect the life of your fellow countrymen. Just the same, the government is bound by the constitution first and foremost to make sure they protect the lives of their people, even in the event that it infringes upon some of their people's liberty. After all, the right of liberty is only guaranteed so long as one's liberty does not potentially infringe on the rights of their fellows. By not getting the vaccine, you put other people's lives at risk (as well as your own, but you do you) by "exercising the freedom" not to get a vaccine. You might not be American, but this is the same kind of logic by which the Supreme Court in America ruled that the state and federal government are constitutionally allowed to mandate vaccines. I'm sure you can see how you can also apply this to Liberty vs. Property, but I'll be happy to give examples of how that works if you ask. But ultimately the point is that, in order to enjoy liberty in the first you probably should take as much reasonable action as you can to also prevent your own and others right to life being infringed upon.


    Now, back to the diseases, which is what I'm good at. We know as a trend that children are less likely to have severe symptoms a la chicken pox, but this is a trend, not a rule. Healthy children, teenagers and young adults can be susceptible to severe COVID symptoms. People with no pre-existing conditions can have COVID symptoms. The thing is, this disease is deadly enough that it's worth completely eliminating from the face of the earth like polio or smallpox, which we did with vaccines. People who get severe COVID have multiple additional complications, develop long-term or permanent disabilities, can become impotent, and end up with a lower quality of life and could even need lifelong medical treatment or assistance just to get through a normal day - IF they live. Even if they don't, it's a slow agonizing death where between the assorted liquids in your lungs, and the inflammation caused by your immune system, you either slowly asphyxiate or your immune system is so overwhelmed by opportunistic infections that it can't fight back and you die of multiple organ failure. Long story short, it's a shitty disease that f**king sucks ass, especially if you're unlucky, but on the other hand, it's one of the ones we can exploit for human resistance. Instead of wasting our medical resources fighting it after we're infected, it's better to empower what God gave us to do it's job more effectively. Think about it, if you had to fight a dragon or something, would you at least want a gun or sword or some shit? Or are you just gonna go in there swinging and hope for the best?

    As someone who works in the biotechnology industry and spent years learning shit to do it, and now is going back to school to learn even more complex and difficult shit about how cells diddle each other so I can get them to do different things than endlessly f**k up and die, it constantly annoys me that people are so quick to throw our work under the bus because of shitty corporations and the government. The vast majority of us are in this line of work to help people first and foremost, and we're not looking to make a quick buck at the expense of someone's life like those Sackler leeches from Purdue Pharma. We're not drug discovery wackos either, who want to find the next big heart disease drug so they can overcharge old people's insurance for something that costs pennies on the dollar to make doses of. Vaccine development folks ESPECIALLY aren't looking to harm their patients. There are only three things that matter when it comes to that line of work - "does it work?", "is it safe?", and "Can we make a lot of it?" And yet, even with the ASTRONOMICALLY small chance that something can go wrong when you get it - usually, due to unknown allergies - some xanax-and-wine mom who shoves egg shaped rocks up her vagina to ward off evil spirits is busy posting to Facebook about how her butthole is sore after she passed out drunk half falling out of bed and it MUST be the vaccine. Never mind the fact that we've had mRNA vaccine technology for almost 35 years, they're easier and faster to make and store than standard weak-virus vaccines, and that thousands of underpaid academics who just wanted to make the world a better place for future generations poured their sweat, blood and tears into making this sort of thing a reality. Just like any astronomer, ancient philosopher, engineer or alchemist before them, the goal was just making things better. And I GUARANTEE that the people who are actually responsible for the vaccine feel exactly the same way, and see the corporation or agency they work for as a necessary evil to make that happen.

    Honestly if it wasn't for that f**king scam artist Andrew Wakefield I don't even think we'd be having this conversation right now. You know - the British "doctor" who wrote a paper that spawned the "vaccines cause autism" catchphrase. Did you know that the results of his initial study were almost entirely made up, as well as the statements of the parents of experiment subjects? That he worked with a quack doctor who was stripped of his license for trying to use an unproven, experimental treatment developed from his own body with no oversight, on children without informed consent? That Andrew Wakefield medically abused and almost killed several of his charges, several times causing them to have to undergo emergency invasive surgery, and also left some of those children with permanent injuries and disabilities? How about that the vaccine he demonized, the then-mandated Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccine, was only chosen so he could offer alternative, separate vaccines manufactured by his own company for 65GBP each? So he could make triple the money off of children who were required to be vaccinated and undermine confidence in public health? The number of people who have died needlessly thanks to that scam artist is FAR too high.

    I don't expect people to have their mind changed by this or even to read this entire post, but if there is a tl;dr, it's this: Just because the government or a corporation advocates or makes money off of something, doesn't mean it's dangerous or untrustworthy. Yes, there is something wrong with both corporations and the government, and you're right to not trust them, but not for the reasons you think. They have a vested interest in keeping you alive, healthy and not disabled, and that benefits you, so you should take advantage of that. It's ok to be wary of people and robust skepticism is a healthy thing, but there needs to be a certain point where you can accept that something is safe and effective.

    And if the rest of society deems something safe and effective, and you still refuse? Prepare yourself for the consequences of your choices.

    3_2080083.png

  •   Wind [444051]Wind [444051]
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    Posted on 05:26:16 - 18/09/21 (1 month ago)
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    angrysc0tsman12 [1099272]

    The vaccines track record is very good. Why don't you tell me which group is predominantly dying these days from COVID? You don't want to get the vaccine, fine. You do you. But f**k off with the misinformation bullshit.

    Styledcurve [2493033]

    I dont care, I'm still not taking the jab and to the last of my knowledge "unvaccinated" wasnt any communicable disease I ever heard of.

    I will do me. Thank ya very much.
    Fine, but for the record I’d like to ask: -IF- you do contract severe COVID, you plan on recovering at home, correct? I mean, if you don’t trust the medical community when it comes to the vaccine it stands to reason you don’t trust them to heal your sorry arse once you’re drowning in your own pus and phlegm, either.

    You wouldn’t be the type of arseface that would refuse a thing that you are specifically told will prevent you from landing in a hospital to begin with, and then once the consequences present themselves rush in to hospital and yank an ICU bed from someone who might need it for lifesaving heart surgery, for example, would you?

    Because that shit is literally happening. Disgusting selfish pukes.
    Harder.Better.Faster.Stronger.
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