Is science infallible or is science for sale - Page 4 | Scienc…
Is science infallible or is science for sale
    • Lewri [1762864]
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    Posted on 10:27:45 - 23/03/18 (6 years ago)
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    Quickdraw [915500]

    Why are there giant parts of the population questioning scientific results? Because there are powerful, rich people who push the narrative that you cannot trust scientific results. They do this becuase if the people don't have an evidence-based way to determine the truth, then the only source of truth is what the powerful say. In your admirable attempts to avoid being manipulated by the powerful, you have actually fallen for their tactics.

    If you think that the climate change narrative is not true, prove it! The first step would be understanding it. Nobody said the world would be over by now, they said the temperatures would be warmer and that we would have more intense storms and droughts. That has all happened, there are even wars being fought right now because of global warming (in Syria). After you understand what you are investigating there is actually an enormous amount that you can do without any funds. All of the data collected is freely available online, and data collection is often the most expensive thing. Also, all of the principles that our understanding of climate change is based on are from classical physics, which people discovered during the 17th century. You can certainly afford the tools that they had available to them. If you don't trust climate models, you can build your own! Here is a free book to get you started and a link to where yo ucan download the data from all of the climate models currently in use, for free:

    http://www.springer.com/us/book/9783662489574

    https://esgf-node.llnl.gov/projects/esgf-llnl/

    If you need a supercomputer to prove your points (another place where cost can be a barrier), I will let you use mine for free.

    Now, you don't have any more excuses, so don't come back until you have something to actually add to the conversation, baseless accusations and mistrust are a waste of time. Back up what you are saying with something meaningful.

    LawOfOne [266775]

    No because there is bunk science and corruptible scientists. I have fallen for their tactics because I question it? LOL Ok guy!

    You can't prove anything anymore but when I know scientists are scared to talk about the fact that they think it's natural for temps to go up and down throughout time there is a problem. When the scientist that founded the Weather channel says its mostly bullshit, you should listen. No one has denied that man is a contributing factor but geo engineering that is happening all over the globe is a factor as well that can be stopped. Actually if you go read Al Gores quotes, he predicted doomsday type BS. Then you need to look at Physics and core samples to figure out that temps go up and they come down. It's natural. The studies that the establishment presented at the Paris talks and all the global warming(LOL) summits has been heavily criticized for lacking the scientific method and being cherry picked. this is widely available with a google search. I would also point to the climate study for ice loss scheduled a few months back but all the ships got stuck in Ice and the 17 million in their budget had to be spent on recovery. Its a joke man, stop with the BS.

    The Syrian war officially is because of Gas usage, thats why our troops are on the ground. However anyone not watching Corporate media already knew from 2013 that Assad does not use Gas and the UN inspectors confirmed this. The moderate rebels we support, which is really ISIS, pulled off the gas attacks and we use them to destabilize the region for our Wars for Profit. The defense contractors get rich, the bankers get rich from more loans for more war and they also get to set up central banks in the countries we destroy and there are competing oil pipelines in Syria. One is for our petro dollar and one is Russian to sell off our scam of a system and use their own currency, along with the Chinese. You have zero understanding of Geo Politics so you should not speak about them.

    Super computer???????? You want me to pour water on it?

    Quickdraw [915500]

    You absolutely should question the science and I am glad that you are! So, for example, regarding global warming. If you are questioning that current global warming trends are caused by humans, here is a bunch of evidence, in addition to the book I already sent you, showing how it is cause pretty much entirely by humans:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2000JD000028/full

    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/1520-0442%282004%29017%3C3721%3ACONAAF%3E2.0.CO%3B2

    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.167.2337&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    http://thingsbreak.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/anthropogenic-and-natural-warming-inferred-from-changes-in-earths-energy-balance.pdf

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2011GL050226/full

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00382-012-1585-8

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jgrd.50239/abstract

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00382-016-3079-6

    Even if every single author in this list is a corrupt piece of shit, there is an abundance of data showing how global warming is caused by humans. If rather than questioning the science, you are accusing it of being wrong, you need to present evidence that shows why these studies are wrong. That is why I offered you the supercomputer, so that there is absolutely no excuse. You can either use data and evidence to prove these studies wrong, or stop making baseless accusations.

    LawOfOne [266775]

    Antarctic core samples such as Vostok and the EPICA prove that the earths temps go up and they go down as do ice levels. You are looking at global warming(lol) through a microscope that Al Gore sold you. Cycles up and cycles down!. For example over the 2000 years, we are only slightly, and I mean ever so slightly above average when looking at the evidence the trees give us. The MWP was not caused by humans and then temps dropped. For every article that you produce I can produce another peer reviewed article from another person that says the opposite. The reason for this is there is zero conciseness in science that these are man made events. Many will tell you as much, Including a weather expert like John Coleman. He knew much more than you on the subject as do many others. I will take their expert opinions. Sit down Mr. Gore!

    Quickdraw [915500]

    That is exactly right, the earths tempreature has cycled up and down in the past naturally. That does not mean that current warming is not caused by humans. It also does not mean thqt we should not worry. For example, during previous warm periods most of North America was underwater, it was a vast shallow sea! That would be a huge problem for us if the earth warms enough that it happens again. The reason we need to be concerned with current, human caused global warming is that our society was built around the current conditions. Most major cities are located near rivers so that they have a water supply. What will we do when the climate changes atmospheric circulation so that rainfall patterns change and the rivers are located in different places? What will we do when Florida is underwater? These are all things that will be incredibly expensive to deal with. It would be much cheaper to prevent these changes by stopping global warming now.

    I have been advocating that you investigate the science on your own so that you dont have to rely on an authority to tell you what to think because I think that is the best way to prevent the abuses of authority that you are worried about. But if you only want to trust an expert, I do in fact know what I am talking about. I am a scientist with a PhD who studies the impacts of global warming, so I am much more qualified to speak on the subject than John Coleman who only had a bachelors degree in journalism and based his views on things that are demonstrably false. If you can produce a bunch of peer reviewed articles that global warming is not caused by humans I would be happy to read them.

    LawOfOne [266775]

    Haha Global warming scientist, not that I would ever accept that without proof. There is absolutely zero consensus among the scientific community that man has caused Global warming because there is no evidence that man is the issue. Thats a fact, zero consensus. Facts are I would take someones opinion that has won awards and accomplished something beyond 3rd level Libtard indoctrination. I would look to solar activity, planetary orbit and geoengineering. But again I will certainly take John Coleman expert opinion as he has not been infected with Liberal indoctrination. Since when is one guy bucking the system when others are afraid to do so qualify for an authority figure? lol When 97%(bullshit alert) of scientists, in actuality agree about global warming then we can talk but until then your chosen profession will remain a joke.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/02/13/peer-reviewed-survey-finds-majority-of-scientists-skeptical-of-global-warming-crisis/#49ff2eae4c7c

    Funny the majority of "your colleagues" don't agree with your global warming hoax nonsense. "Only 36 percent of geoscientists and engineers believe that humans are creating a global warming crisis" "They are skeptical that the scientific debate is settled regarding the IPCC modeling. These scientists are likely to ask, How can anyone take action if research is biased? "Highly flawed" are the words that come from scientists about the IPCC as of late. You can sit down now with your nonsensical global warming BS.
    That gives me a great idea, let's go interview electricians about their opinions on candidates for dark matter!

    Maybe if I ever break a leg or something I'll go to a mathematician for help
    Last edited by Lewri on 16:03:20 - 23/03/18

    • PopadaPill [900338]
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    Posted on 13:13:40 - 23/03/18 (6 years ago)
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    anyone in this thread think the pictures i posted in the RIP Stephen Hawking thread are all the same people.



    Because if you do then what AM I doing here,peoples eyes dunna work
    Last edited by PopadaPill on 13:14:09 - 23/03/18
    • PopadaPill [900338]
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    Posted on 13:57:30 - 23/03/18 (6 years ago)
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    Im in the 3% coz thats where its at.

    and thats a Magik number
    • LawOfOne [266775]
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    Posted on 18:07:51 - 24/03/18 (6 years ago)
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    LawOfOne [266775]

    No because there is bunk science and corruptible scientists. I have fallen for their tactics because I question it? LOL Ok guy!

    You can't prove anything anymore but when I know scientists are scared to talk about the fact that they think it's natural for temps to go up and down throughout time there is a problem. When the scientist that founded the Weather channel says its mostly bullshit, you should listen. No one has denied that man is a contributing factor but geo engineering that is happening all over the globe is a factor as well that can be stopped. Actually if you go read Al Gores quotes, he predicted doomsday type BS. Then you need to look at Physics and core samples to figure out that temps go up and they come down. It's natural. The studies that the establishment presented at the Paris talks and all the global warming(LOL) summits has been heavily criticized for lacking the scientific method and being cherry picked. this is widely available with a google search. I would also point to the climate study for ice loss scheduled a few months back but all the ships got stuck in Ice and the 17 million in their budget had to be spent on recovery. Its a joke man, stop with the BS.

    The Syrian war officially is because of Gas usage, thats why our troops are on the ground. However anyone not watching Corporate media already knew from 2013 that Assad does not use Gas and the UN inspectors confirmed this. The moderate rebels we support, which is really ISIS, pulled off the gas attacks and we use them to destabilize the region for our Wars for Profit. The defense contractors get rich, the bankers get rich from more loans for more war and they also get to set up central banks in the countries we destroy and there are competing oil pipelines in Syria. One is for our petro dollar and one is Russian to sell off our scam of a system and use their own currency, along with the Chinese. You have zero understanding of Geo Politics so you should not speak about them.

    Super computer???????? You want me to pour water on it?

    Quickdraw [915500]

    You absolutely should question the science and I am glad that you are! So, for example, regarding global warming. If you are questioning that current global warming trends are caused by humans, here is a bunch of evidence, in addition to the book I already sent you, showing how it is cause pretty much entirely by humans:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2000JD000028/full

    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/1520-0442%282004%29017%3C3721%3ACONAAF%3E2.0.CO%3B2

    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.167.2337&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    http://thingsbreak.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/anthropogenic-and-natural-warming-inferred-from-changes-in-earths-energy-balance.pdf

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2011GL050226/full

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00382-012-1585-8

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jgrd.50239/abstract

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00382-016-3079-6

    Even if every single author in this list is a corrupt piece of shit, there is an abundance of data showing how global warming is caused by humans. If rather than questioning the science, you are accusing it of being wrong, you need to present evidence that shows why these studies are wrong. That is why I offered you the supercomputer, so that there is absolutely no excuse. You can either use data and evidence to prove these studies wrong, or stop making baseless accusations.

    LawOfOne [266775]

    Antarctic core samples such as Vostok and the EPICA prove that the earths temps go up and they go down as do ice levels. You are looking at global warming(lol) through a microscope that Al Gore sold you. Cycles up and cycles down!. For example over the 2000 years, we are only slightly, and I mean ever so slightly above average when looking at the evidence the trees give us. The MWP was not caused by humans and then temps dropped. For every article that you produce I can produce another peer reviewed article from another person that says the opposite. The reason for this is there is zero conciseness in science that these are man made events. Many will tell you as much, Including a weather expert like John Coleman. He knew much more than you on the subject as do many others. I will take their expert opinions. Sit down Mr. Gore!

    Quickdraw [915500]

    That is exactly right, the earths tempreature has cycled up and down in the past naturally. That does not mean that current warming is not caused by humans. It also does not mean thqt we should not worry. For example, during previous warm periods most of North America was underwater, it was a vast shallow sea! That would be a huge problem for us if the earth warms enough that it happens again. The reason we need to be concerned with current, human caused global warming is that our society was built around the current conditions. Most major cities are located near rivers so that they have a water supply. What will we do when the climate changes atmospheric circulation so that rainfall patterns change and the rivers are located in different places? What will we do when Florida is underwater? These are all things that will be incredibly expensive to deal with. It would be much cheaper to prevent these changes by stopping global warming now.

    I have been advocating that you investigate the science on your own so that you dont have to rely on an authority to tell you what to think because I think that is the best way to prevent the abuses of authority that you are worried about. But if you only want to trust an expert, I do in fact know what I am talking about. I am a scientist with a PhD who studies the impacts of global warming, so I am much more qualified to speak on the subject than John Coleman who only had a bachelors degree in journalism and based his views on things that are demonstrably false. If you can produce a bunch of peer reviewed articles that global warming is not caused by humans I would be happy to read them.

    LawOfOne [266775]

    Haha Global warming scientist, not that I would ever accept that without proof. There is absolutely zero consensus among the scientific community that man has caused Global warming because there is no evidence that man is the issue. Thats a fact, zero consensus. Facts are I would take someones opinion that has won awards and accomplished something beyond 3rd level Libtard indoctrination. I would look to solar activity, planetary orbit and geoengineering. But again I will certainly take John Coleman expert opinion as he has not been infected with Liberal indoctrination. Since when is one guy bucking the system when others are afraid to do so qualify for an authority figure? lol When 97%(bullshit alert) of scientists, in actuality agree about global warming then we can talk but until then your chosen profession will remain a joke.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/02/13/peer-reviewed-survey-finds-majority-of-scientists-skeptical-of-global-warming-crisis/#49ff2eae4c7c

    Funny the majority of "your colleagues" don't agree with your global warming hoax nonsense. "Only 36 percent of geoscientists and engineers believe that humans are creating a global warming crisis" "They are skeptical that the scientific debate is settled regarding the IPCC modeling. These scientists are likely to ask, How can anyone take action if research is biased? "Highly flawed" are the words that come from scientists about the IPCC as of late. You can sit down now with your nonsensical global warming BS.

    Lewri [1762864]

    That gives me a great idea, let's go interview electricians about their opinions on candidates for dark matter!

    Maybe if I ever break a leg or something I'll go to a mathematician for help
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170613150651.htm



    You can sit down as well. Thank you for your participation

     

    • Lewri [1762864]
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    Posted on 18:18:35 - 24/03/18 (6 years ago)
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    Quickdraw [915500]

    You absolutely should question the science and I am glad that you are! So, for example, regarding global warming. If you are questioning that current global warming trends are caused by humans, here is a bunch of evidence, in addition to the book I already sent you, showing how it is cause pretty much entirely by humans:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2000JD000028/full

    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/1520-0442%282004%29017%3C3721%3ACONAAF%3E2.0.CO%3B2

    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.167.2337&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    http://thingsbreak.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/anthropogenic-and-natural-warming-inferred-from-changes-in-earths-energy-balance.pdf

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2011GL050226/full

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00382-012-1585-8

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jgrd.50239/abstract

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00382-016-3079-6

    Even if every single author in this list is a corrupt piece of shit, there is an abundance of data showing how global warming is caused by humans. If rather than questioning the science, you are accusing it of being wrong, you need to present evidence that shows why these studies are wrong. That is why I offered you the supercomputer, so that there is absolutely no excuse. You can either use data and evidence to prove these studies wrong, or stop making baseless accusations.

    LawOfOne [266775]

    Antarctic core samples such as Vostok and the EPICA prove that the earths temps go up and they go down as do ice levels. You are looking at global warming(lol) through a microscope that Al Gore sold you. Cycles up and cycles down!. For example over the 2000 years, we are only slightly, and I mean ever so slightly above average when looking at the evidence the trees give us. The MWP was not caused by humans and then temps dropped. For every article that you produce I can produce another peer reviewed article from another person that says the opposite. The reason for this is there is zero conciseness in science that these are man made events. Many will tell you as much, Including a weather expert like John Coleman. He knew much more than you on the subject as do many others. I will take their expert opinions. Sit down Mr. Gore!

    Quickdraw [915500]

    That is exactly right, the earths tempreature has cycled up and down in the past naturally. That does not mean that current warming is not caused by humans. It also does not mean thqt we should not worry. For example, during previous warm periods most of North America was underwater, it was a vast shallow sea! That would be a huge problem for us if the earth warms enough that it happens again. The reason we need to be concerned with current, human caused global warming is that our society was built around the current conditions. Most major cities are located near rivers so that they have a water supply. What will we do when the climate changes atmospheric circulation so that rainfall patterns change and the rivers are located in different places? What will we do when Florida is underwater? These are all things that will be incredibly expensive to deal with. It would be much cheaper to prevent these changes by stopping global warming now.

    I have been advocating that you investigate the science on your own so that you dont have to rely on an authority to tell you what to think because I think that is the best way to prevent the abuses of authority that you are worried about. But if you only want to trust an expert, I do in fact know what I am talking about. I am a scientist with a PhD who studies the impacts of global warming, so I am much more qualified to speak on the subject than John Coleman who only had a bachelors degree in journalism and based his views on things that are demonstrably false. If you can produce a bunch of peer reviewed articles that global warming is not caused by humans I would be happy to read them.

    LawOfOne [266775]

    Haha Global warming scientist, not that I would ever accept that without proof. There is absolutely zero consensus among the scientific community that man has caused Global warming because there is no evidence that man is the issue. Thats a fact, zero consensus. Facts are I would take someones opinion that has won awards and accomplished something beyond 3rd level Libtard indoctrination. I would look to solar activity, planetary orbit and geoengineering. But again I will certainly take John Coleman expert opinion as he has not been infected with Liberal indoctrination. Since when is one guy bucking the system when others are afraid to do so qualify for an authority figure? lol When 97%(bullshit alert) of scientists, in actuality agree about global warming then we can talk but until then your chosen profession will remain a joke.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/02/13/peer-reviewed-survey-finds-majority-of-scientists-skeptical-of-global-warming-crisis/#49ff2eae4c7c

    Funny the majority of "your colleagues" don't agree with your global warming hoax nonsense. "Only 36 percent of geoscientists and engineers believe that humans are creating a global warming crisis" "They are skeptical that the scientific debate is settled regarding the IPCC modeling. These scientists are likely to ask, How can anyone take action if research is biased? "Highly flawed" are the words that come from scientists about the IPCC as of late. You can sit down now with your nonsensical global warming BS.

    Lewri [1762864]

    That gives me a great idea, let's go interview electricians about their opinions on candidates for dark matter!

    Maybe if I ever break a leg or something I'll go to a mathematician for help

    LawOfOne [266775]

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170613150651.htm



    You can sit down as well. Thank you for your participation
    I can sit down? You have completely ignored all my posts in this forum and then post a link thats completely irrelevant while ignoring the points I made. What the **** was the point in that link?

    • LawOfOne [266775]
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    Posted on 20:42:26 - 26/03/18 (6 years ago)
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    LawOfOne [266775]

    Antarctic core samples such as Vostok and the EPICA prove that the earths temps go up and they go down as do ice levels. You are looking at global warming(lol) through a microscope that Al Gore sold you. Cycles up and cycles down!. For example over the 2000 years, we are only slightly, and I mean ever so slightly above average when looking at the evidence the trees give us. The MWP was not caused by humans and then temps dropped. For every article that you produce I can produce another peer reviewed article from another person that says the opposite. The reason for this is there is zero conciseness in science that these are man made events. Many will tell you as much, Including a weather expert like John Coleman. He knew much more than you on the subject as do many others. I will take their expert opinions. Sit down Mr. Gore!

    Quickdraw [915500]

    That is exactly right, the earths tempreature has cycled up and down in the past naturally. That does not mean that current warming is not caused by humans. It also does not mean thqt we should not worry. For example, during previous warm periods most of North America was underwater, it was a vast shallow sea! That would be a huge problem for us if the earth warms enough that it happens again. The reason we need to be concerned with current, human caused global warming is that our society was built around the current conditions. Most major cities are located near rivers so that they have a water supply. What will we do when the climate changes atmospheric circulation so that rainfall patterns change and the rivers are located in different places? What will we do when Florida is underwater? These are all things that will be incredibly expensive to deal with. It would be much cheaper to prevent these changes by stopping global warming now.

    I have been advocating that you investigate the science on your own so that you dont have to rely on an authority to tell you what to think because I think that is the best way to prevent the abuses of authority that you are worried about. But if you only want to trust an expert, I do in fact know what I am talking about. I am a scientist with a PhD who studies the impacts of global warming, so I am much more qualified to speak on the subject than John Coleman who only had a bachelors degree in journalism and based his views on things that are demonstrably false. If you can produce a bunch of peer reviewed articles that global warming is not caused by humans I would be happy to read them.

    LawOfOne [266775]

    Haha Global warming scientist, not that I would ever accept that without proof. There is absolutely zero consensus among the scientific community that man has caused Global warming because there is no evidence that man is the issue. Thats a fact, zero consensus. Facts are I would take someones opinion that has won awards and accomplished something beyond 3rd level Libtard indoctrination. I would look to solar activity, planetary orbit and geoengineering. But again I will certainly take John Coleman expert opinion as he has not been infected with Liberal indoctrination. Since when is one guy bucking the system when others are afraid to do so qualify for an authority figure? lol When 97%(bullshit alert) of scientists, in actuality agree about global warming then we can talk but until then your chosen profession will remain a joke.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/02/13/peer-reviewed-survey-finds-majority-of-scientists-skeptical-of-global-warming-crisis/#49ff2eae4c7c

    Funny the majority of "your colleagues" don't agree with your global warming hoax nonsense. "Only 36 percent of geoscientists and engineers believe that humans are creating a global warming crisis" "They are skeptical that the scientific debate is settled regarding the IPCC modeling. These scientists are likely to ask, How can anyone take action if research is biased? "Highly flawed" are the words that come from scientists about the IPCC as of late. You can sit down now with your nonsensical global warming BS.

    Lewri [1762864]

    That gives me a great idea, let's go interview electricians about their opinions on candidates for dark matter!

    Maybe if I ever break a leg or something I'll go to a mathematician for help

    LawOfOne [266775]

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170613150651.htm



    You can sit down as well. Thank you for your participation

    Lewri [1762864]

    I can sit down? You have completely ignored all my posts in this forum and then post a link thats completely irrelevant while ignoring the points I made. What the **** was the point in that link?
    You are completely right! It's so irrelevant that a bunch of boats going to study global warming and ice loss got stuck in ice and had to spend all 17 million dollars of their budget to get their boats unstuck. 

    Studying "Global Warming"(no such thing) takes many different scientific back grounds. Your irrelevant point makes sit sound like these doctorate level scientists were botanists or chemists and thats simply not the case. Your response warrant one in return. However these studies/polls, what ever you'd like to label them as are echoed through out their communities. Nothing that a couple competent internet searches won't uncover. Have a great day!

     

    • Lewri [1762864]
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    Posted on 19:08:01 - 27/03/18 (6 years ago)
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    Quickdraw [915500]

    That is exactly right, the earths tempreature has cycled up and down in the past naturally. That does not mean that current warming is not caused by humans. It also does not mean thqt we should not worry. For example, during previous warm periods most of North America was underwater, it was a vast shallow sea! That would be a huge problem for us if the earth warms enough that it happens again. The reason we need to be concerned with current, human caused global warming is that our society was built around the current conditions. Most major cities are located near rivers so that they have a water supply. What will we do when the climate changes atmospheric circulation so that rainfall patterns change and the rivers are located in different places? What will we do when Florida is underwater? These are all things that will be incredibly expensive to deal with. It would be much cheaper to prevent these changes by stopping global warming now.

    I have been advocating that you investigate the science on your own so that you dont have to rely on an authority to tell you what to think because I think that is the best way to prevent the abuses of authority that you are worried about. But if you only want to trust an expert, I do in fact know what I am talking about. I am a scientist with a PhD who studies the impacts of global warming, so I am much more qualified to speak on the subject than John Coleman who only had a bachelors degree in journalism and based his views on things that are demonstrably false. If you can produce a bunch of peer reviewed articles that global warming is not caused by humans I would be happy to read them.

    LawOfOne [266775]

    Haha Global warming scientist, not that I would ever accept that without proof. There is absolutely zero consensus among the scientific community that man has caused Global warming because there is no evidence that man is the issue. Thats a fact, zero consensus. Facts are I would take someones opinion that has won awards and accomplished something beyond 3rd level Libtard indoctrination. I would look to solar activity, planetary orbit and geoengineering. But again I will certainly take John Coleman expert opinion as he has not been infected with Liberal indoctrination. Since when is one guy bucking the system when others are afraid to do so qualify for an authority figure? lol When 97%(bullshit alert) of scientists, in actuality agree about global warming then we can talk but until then your chosen profession will remain a joke.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/02/13/peer-reviewed-survey-finds-majority-of-scientists-skeptical-of-global-warming-crisis/#49ff2eae4c7c

    Funny the majority of "your colleagues" don't agree with your global warming hoax nonsense. "Only 36 percent of geoscientists and engineers believe that humans are creating a global warming crisis" "They are skeptical that the scientific debate is settled regarding the IPCC modeling. These scientists are likely to ask, How can anyone take action if research is biased? "Highly flawed" are the words that come from scientists about the IPCC as of late. You can sit down now with your nonsensical global warming BS.

    Lewri [1762864]

    That gives me a great idea, let's go interview electricians about their opinions on candidates for dark matter!

    Maybe if I ever break a leg or something I'll go to a mathematician for help

    LawOfOne [266775]

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170613150651.htm



    You can sit down as well. Thank you for your participation

    Lewri [1762864]

    I can sit down? You have completely ignored all my posts in this forum and then post a link thats completely irrelevant while ignoring the points I made. What the **** was the point in that link?

    LawOfOne [266775]

    You are completely right! It's so irrelevant that a bunch of boats going to study global warming and ice loss got stuck in ice and had to spend all 17 million dollars of their budget to get their boats unstuck.

    Studying "Global Warming"(no such thing) takes many different scientific back grounds. Your irrelevant point makes sit sound like these doctorate level scientists were botanists or chemists and thats simply not the case. Your response warrant one in return. However these studies/polls, what ever you'd like to label them as are echoed through out their communities. Nothing that a couple competent internet searches won't uncover. Have a great day!
    Am I missing something? Unless I've gone blind, nowhere in that article does it say that they got stuck in the ice and spent $17m getting out. The only fact you got right was that their budget was $17m but that was for the whole thing anyway and it was only their first leg that got CANCELLED, it got cancelled due to hazardous conditions and so they didnt set off, they didnt get stuck in ice. That is all besides the point when you take into account the fact that its just 1 study on climate change that had 1 leg of its expedition cancelled while so many other studies continue to take place and ever increasingly continue to come to the conclusion that human are to blame. 

    As for that survey you say I make it sound like theyre botanists or chemists, I'm simply pointing out that theyre not people who have done any research on climate change whatsoever. To be honest I'd be more likely to listen to chemists and botanists than engineers as those fields are a lot more relevant. As you say, global warming is a complex situation which requires many different bodies of science (which you will find if you go and look in the list of papers I previously posted http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/media/erl460291datafile.txt) however that does not mean that picking a random field of STEM and surveying professionals of that field warrants anything meaningful for whether or not we should trust the people who do actually research the topic at hand.

    You also say that not only is anthropogenic global warming false but so is global warming in general! The scientific consensus on AGW is dominating but pales in comparison to the consensus on general global warming

    • PopadaPill [900338]
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    Posted on 14:57:32 - 28/03/18 (6 years ago)
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    3%
    • PopadaPill [900338]
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    Posted on 15:57:43 - 29/03/18 (6 years ago)
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    WOW..i cant believe what Dark Matter looks like

    • Quickdraw [915500]
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    Posted on 00:47:22 - 31/03/18 (6 years ago)
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    Quickdraw [915500]

    Why are there giant parts of the population questioning scientific results? Because there are powerful, rich people who push the narrative that you cannot trust scientific results. They do this becuase if the people don't have an evidence-based way to determine the truth, then the only source of truth is what the powerful say. In your admirable attempts to avoid being manipulated by the powerful, you have actually fallen for their tactics.

    If you think that the climate change narrative is not true, prove it! The first step would be understanding it. Nobody said the world would be over by now, they said the temperatures would be warmer and that we would have more intense storms and droughts. That has all happened, there are even wars being fought right now because of global warming (in Syria). After you understand what you are investigating there is actually an enormous amount that you can do without any funds. All of the data collected is freely available online, and data collection is often the most expensive thing. Also, all of the principles that our understanding of climate change is based on are from classical physics, which people discovered during the 17th century. You can certainly afford the tools that they had available to them. If you don't trust climate models, you can build your own! Here is a free book to get you started and a link to where yo ucan download the data from all of the climate models currently in use, for free:

    http://www.springer.com/us/book/9783662489574

    https://esgf-node.llnl.gov/projects/esgf-llnl/

    If you need a supercomputer to prove your points (another place where cost can be a barrier), I will let you use mine for free.

    Now, you don't have any more excuses, so don't come back until you have something to actually add to the conversation, baseless accusations and mistrust are a waste of time. Back up what you are saying with something meaningful.

    LawOfOne [266775]

    No because there is bunk science and corruptible scientists. I have fallen for their tactics because I question it? LOL Ok guy!

    You can't prove anything anymore but when I know scientists are scared to talk about the fact that they think it's natural for temps to go up and down throughout time there is a problem. When the scientist that founded the Weather channel says its mostly bullshit, you should listen. No one has denied that man is a contributing factor but geo engineering that is happening all over the globe is a factor as well that can be stopped. Actually if you go read Al Gores quotes, he predicted doomsday type BS. Then you need to look at Physics and core samples to figure out that temps go up and they come down. It's natural. The studies that the establishment presented at the Paris talks and all the global warming(LOL) summits has been heavily criticized for lacking the scientific method and being cherry picked. this is widely available with a google search. I would also point to the climate study for ice loss scheduled a few months back but all the ships got stuck in Ice and the 17 million in their budget had to be spent on recovery. Its a joke man, stop with the BS.

    The Syrian war officially is because of Gas usage, thats why our troops are on the ground. However anyone not watching Corporate media already knew from 2013 that Assad does not use Gas and the UN inspectors confirmed this. The moderate rebels we support, which is really ISIS, pulled off the gas attacks and we use them to destabilize the region for our Wars for Profit. The defense contractors get rich, the bankers get rich from more loans for more war and they also get to set up central banks in the countries we destroy and there are competing oil pipelines in Syria. One is for our petro dollar and one is Russian to sell off our scam of a system and use their own currency, along with the Chinese. You have zero understanding of Geo Politics so you should not speak about them.

    Super computer???????? You want me to pour water on it?

    Quickdraw [915500]

    You absolutely should question the science and I am glad that you are! So, for example, regarding global warming. If you are questioning that current global warming trends are caused by humans, here is a bunch of evidence, in addition to the book I already sent you, showing how it is cause pretty much entirely by humans:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2000JD000028/full

    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/1520-0442%282004%29017%3C3721%3ACONAAF%3E2.0.CO%3B2

    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.167.2337&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    http://thingsbreak.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/anthropogenic-and-natural-warming-inferred-from-changes-in-earths-energy-balance.pdf

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2011GL050226/full

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00382-012-1585-8

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jgrd.50239/abstract

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00382-016-3079-6

    Even if every single author in this list is a corrupt piece of shit, there is an abundance of data showing how global warming is caused by humans. If rather than questioning the science, you are accusing it of being wrong, you need to present evidence that shows why these studies are wrong. That is why I offered you the supercomputer, so that there is absolutely no excuse. You can either use data and evidence to prove these studies wrong, or stop making baseless accusations.

    LawOfOne [266775]

    Antarctic core samples such as Vostok and the EPICA prove that the earths temps go up and they go down as do ice levels. You are looking at global warming(lol) through a microscope that Al Gore sold you. Cycles up and cycles down!. For example over the 2000 years, we are only slightly, and I mean ever so slightly above average when looking at the evidence the trees give us. The MWP was not caused by humans and then temps dropped. For every article that you produce I can produce another peer reviewed article from another person that says the opposite. The reason for this is there is zero conciseness in science that these are man made events. Many will tell you as much, Including a weather expert like John Coleman. He knew much more than you on the subject as do many others. I will take their expert opinions. Sit down Mr. Gore!

    Quickdraw [915500]

    That is exactly right, the earths tempreature has cycled up and down in the past naturally. That does not mean that current warming is not caused by humans. It also does not mean thqt we should not worry. For example, during previous warm periods most of North America was underwater, it was a vast shallow sea! That would be a huge problem for us if the earth warms enough that it happens again. The reason we need to be concerned with current, human caused global warming is that our society was built around the current conditions. Most major cities are located near rivers so that they have a water supply. What will we do when the climate changes atmospheric circulation so that rainfall patterns change and the rivers are located in different places? What will we do when Florida is underwater? These are all things that will be incredibly expensive to deal with. It would be much cheaper to prevent these changes by stopping global warming now.

    I have been advocating that you investigate the science on your own so that you dont have to rely on an authority to tell you what to think because I think that is the best way to prevent the abuses of authority that you are worried about. But if you only want to trust an expert, I do in fact know what I am talking about. I am a scientist with a PhD who studies the impacts of global warming, so I am much more qualified to speak on the subject than John Coleman who only had a bachelors degree in journalism and based his views on things that are demonstrably false. If you can produce a bunch of peer reviewed articles that global warming is not caused by humans I would be happy to read them.

    LawOfOne [266775]

    Haha Global warming scientist, not that I would ever accept that without proof. There is absolutely zero consensus among the scientific community that man has caused Global warming because there is no evidence that man is the issue. Thats a fact, zero consensus. Facts are I would take someones opinion that has won awards and accomplished something beyond 3rd level Libtard indoctrination. I would look to solar activity, planetary orbit and geoengineering. But again I will certainly take John Coleman expert opinion as he has not been infected with Liberal indoctrination. Since when is one guy bucking the system when others are afraid to do so qualify for an authority figure? lol When 97%(bullshit alert) of scientists, in actuality agree about global warming then we can talk but until then your chosen profession will remain a joke.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/02/13/peer-reviewed-survey-finds-majority-of-scientists-skeptical-of-global-warming-crisis/#49ff2eae4c7c

    Funny the majority of "your colleagues" don't agree with your global warming hoax nonsense. "Only 36 percent of geoscientists and engineers believe that humans are creating a global warming crisis" "They are skeptical that the scientific debate is settled regarding the IPCC modeling. These scientists are likely to ask, How can anyone take action if research is biased? "Highly flawed" are the words that come from scientists about the IPCC as of late. You can sit down now with your nonsensical global warming BS.
    I get that this is a game that children play so I shouldnt have too high of hopes for reasoned conversation. Once you grow up a bit I hope you will be able to open your mind a little. If that ever happens I would be happy to help you learn about global warming, just let me know!
    • PopadaPill [900338]
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    Posted on 00:59:42 - 31/03/18 (6 years ago)
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    Quickshill..Quickcuck...Quicktobelieve
    Last edited by PopadaPill on 13:19:22 - 31/03/18
    • Quickdraw [915500]
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    Posted on 15:53:13 - 31/03/18 (6 years ago)
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    Quickdraw [915500]

    Why are there giant parts of the population questioning scientific results? Because there are powerful, rich people who push the narrative that you cannot trust scientific results. They do this becuase if the people don't have an evidence-based way to determine the truth, then the only source of truth is what the powerful say. In your admirable attempts to avoid being manipulated by the powerful, you have actually fallen for their tactics.

    If you think that the climate change narrative is not true, prove it! The first step would be understanding it. Nobody said the world would be over by now, they said the temperatures would be warmer and that we would have more intense storms and droughts. That has all happened, there are even wars being fought right now because of global warming (in Syria). After you understand what you are investigating there is actually an enormous amount that you can do without any funds. All of the data collected is freely available online, and data collection is often the most expensive thing. Also, all of the principles that our understanding of climate change is based on are from classical physics, which people discovered during the 17th century. You can certainly afford the tools that they had available to them. If you don't trust climate models, you can build your own! Here is a free book to get you started and a link to where yo ucan download the data from all of the climate models currently in use, for free:

    http://www.springer.com/us/book/9783662489574

    https://esgf-node.llnl.gov/projects/esgf-llnl/

    If you need a supercomputer to prove your points (another place where cost can be a barrier), I will let you use mine for free.

    Now, you don't have any more excuses, so don't come back until you have something to actually add to the conversation, baseless accusations and mistrust are a waste of time. Back up what you are saying with something meaningful.

    LawOfOne [266775]

    No because there is bunk science and corruptible scientists. I have fallen for their tactics because I question it? LOL Ok guy!

    You can't prove anything anymore but when I know scientists are scared to talk about the fact that they think it's natural for temps to go up and down throughout time there is a problem. When the scientist that founded the Weather channel says its mostly bullshit, you should listen. No one has denied that man is a contributing factor but geo engineering that is happening all over the globe is a factor as well that can be stopped. Actually if you go read Al Gores quotes, he predicted doomsday type BS. Then you need to look at Physics and core samples to figure out that temps go up and they come down. It's natural. The studies that the establishment presented at the Paris talks and all the global warming(LOL) summits has been heavily criticized for lacking the scientific method and being cherry picked. this is widely available with a google search. I would also point to the climate study for ice loss scheduled a few months back but all the ships got stuck in Ice and the 17 million in their budget had to be spent on recovery. Its a joke man, stop with the BS.

    The Syrian war officially is because of Gas usage, thats why our troops are on the ground. However anyone not watching Corporate media already knew from 2013 that Assad does not use Gas and the UN inspectors confirmed this. The moderate rebels we support, which is really ISIS, pulled off the gas attacks and we use them to destabilize the region for our Wars for Profit. The defense contractors get rich, the bankers get rich from more loans for more war and they also get to set up central banks in the countries we destroy and there are competing oil pipelines in Syria. One is for our petro dollar and one is Russian to sell off our scam of a system and use their own currency, along with the Chinese. You have zero understanding of Geo Politics so you should not speak about them.

    Super computer???????? You want me to pour water on it?

    Quickdraw [915500]

    You absolutely should question the science and I am glad that you are! So, for example, regarding global warming. If you are questioning that current global warming trends are caused by humans, here is a bunch of evidence, in addition to the book I already sent you, showing how it is cause pretty much entirely by humans:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2000JD000028/full

    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/1520-0442%282004%29017%3C3721%3ACONAAF%3E2.0.CO%3B2

    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.167.2337&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    http://thingsbreak.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/anthropogenic-and-natural-warming-inferred-from-changes-in-earths-energy-balance.pdf

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2011GL050226/full

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00382-012-1585-8

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jgrd.50239/abstract

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00382-016-3079-6

    Even if every single author in this list is a corrupt piece of shit, there is an abundance of data showing how global warming is caused by humans. If rather than questioning the science, you are accusing it of being wrong, you need to present evidence that shows why these studies are wrong. That is why I offered you the supercomputer, so that there is absolutely no excuse. You can either use data and evidence to prove these studies wrong, or stop making baseless accusations.

    LawOfOne [266775]

    Antarctic core samples such as Vostok and the EPICA prove that the earths temps go up and they go down as do ice levels. You are looking at global warming(lol) through a microscope that Al Gore sold you. Cycles up and cycles down!. For example over the 2000 years, we are only slightly, and I mean ever so slightly above average when looking at the evidence the trees give us. The MWP was not caused by humans and then temps dropped. For every article that you produce I can produce another peer reviewed article from another person that says the opposite. The reason for this is there is zero conciseness in science that these are man made events. Many will tell you as much, Including a weather expert like John Coleman. He knew much more than you on the subject as do many others. I will take their expert opinions. Sit down Mr. Gore!

    Quickdraw [915500]

    That is exactly right, the earths tempreature has cycled up and down in the past naturally. That does not mean that current warming is not caused by humans. It also does not mean thqt we should not worry. For example, during previous warm periods most of North America was underwater, it was a vast shallow sea! That would be a huge problem for us if the earth warms enough that it happens again. The reason we need to be concerned with current, human caused global warming is that our society was built around the current conditions. Most major cities are located near rivers so that they have a water supply. What will we do when the climate changes atmospheric circulation so that rainfall patterns change and the rivers are located in different places? What will we do when Florida is underwater? These are all things that will be incredibly expensive to deal with. It would be much cheaper to prevent these changes by stopping global warming now.

    I have been advocating that you investigate the science on your own so that you dont have to rely on an authority to tell you what to think because I think that is the best way to prevent the abuses of authority that you are worried about. But if you only want to trust an expert, I do in fact know what I am talking about. I am a scientist with a PhD who studies the impacts of global warming, so I am much more qualified to speak on the subject than John Coleman who only had a bachelors degree in journalism and based his views on things that are demonstrably false. If you can produce a bunch of peer reviewed articles that global warming is not caused by humans I would be happy to read them.

    MachineGunSteve [184119]

    Let's say I accept the fact that you know what you are talking about, and I accept the fact that humans are to cause for the minor fluctuations in temperature that are currently causing climate change to be more robust than is attributable to natural factors... so what?

    The problem I have with all of this is that there is no practical fix that I can conceive of or have read about that is achievable in a manner that probably won't cause a major collapse of our economy and way of life.

    If we in the USA suddenly stopped eating meat... all of us, and stopped driving to work... all of us... and stopped doing everything we are doing (impossible really) what impact would that have? Maybe a global reduction of 20% for our carbon footprint... say 25%... but then we may as well give the keys to the Russians and Chinese to the White House, and all march lock step into the nearest ocean.

    We are a capitalist nation (I guess... we try to be, or we call ourselves one... not sure anymore), so the market will eventually fix the problem in the USA. Solar panels are popping up on every roof in my neighborhood. Hybrid cars are everywhere... laws are being past to end plastic use in retail... etc., etc. What else should we do doctor?

    I would love for someone with an actual plan to run for office. Not someone with anecdotes, campaign slogans, and rhetoric, but an actual thought out plan to show us during their campaigning that looks like it would work without ruin to the national economy. I would vote for that person regardless of party. But I have yet to see that person, because there is no plan... there is only using the issue as a wedge and political gain, and that is just as bad as denying there is a problem in my opinion.
    This is the crux of the problem, and I believe the real reason why many conservatives choose to believe that global warming isn't real. The market cannot fix global warming because the market is based on the idea of an unlimited commons, so that if everybody does what is in their best interest things will work out. But the world is not an unlimited commons and if we pollute it we are ultimately ruining things for ourselves (read about the concept: tragedy of the commons). In order to avoid this we need to agree to fix it as a group (i.e. government intervention). One good way is a carbon tax of which there are many well thought out proposals, here is one since it is a science subforum from tye union of concerned scientists: https://www.ucsusa.org/our-work/global-warming/solutions/global-warming-solutions-reduce-emissions#.Wr-tbHNlBdZ

    So yeah there will be economic upheaval for people and companies that are based on fossil fuels, but for the vast majority of people there wont be much effect and we would be far better positioned for the future. If we do nothing (i.e. try to let the market fix global warming) then the economic consequences are far greater. The locations of our cities would need to be moved, crops will be far less productive. A scenario like that movie interstellar is possible where we can no longer grow enough food to feed ourselves. The economic consequences of inaction are far far greater.
    • PopadaPill [900338]
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    Posted on 17:54:46 - 31/03/18 (6 years ago)
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    Lio

    Hey,whats that book in the background

    Old English, via Old French and ecclesiastical Latin from Greek apokalupsis, from apokaluptein uncover, reveal, from apo- un- + kaluptein to cover.
    Last edited by PopadaPill on 18:01:47 - 31/03/18
    • MachineGunSteve [184119]
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    Posted on 12:50:02 - 02/04/18 (6 years ago)
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    LawOfOne [266775]

    No because there is bunk science and corruptible scientists. I have fallen for their tactics because I question it? LOL Ok guy!

    You can't prove anything anymore but when I know scientists are scared to talk about the fact that they think it's natural for temps to go up and down throughout time there is a problem. When the scientist that founded the Weather channel says its mostly bullshit, you should listen. No one has denied that man is a contributing factor but geo engineering that is happening all over the globe is a factor as well that can be stopped. Actually if you go read Al Gores quotes, he predicted doomsday type BS. Then you need to look at Physics and core samples to figure out that temps go up and they come down. It's natural. The studies that the establishment presented at the Paris talks and all the global warming(LOL) summits has been heavily criticized for lacking the scientific method and being cherry picked. this is widely available with a google search. I would also point to the climate study for ice loss scheduled a few months back but all the ships got stuck in Ice and the 17 million in their budget had to be spent on recovery. Its a joke man, stop with the BS.

    The Syrian war officially is because of Gas usage, thats why our troops are on the ground. However anyone not watching Corporate media already knew from 2013 that Assad does not use Gas and the UN inspectors confirmed this. The moderate rebels we support, which is really ISIS, pulled off the gas attacks and we use them to destabilize the region for our Wars for Profit. The defense contractors get rich, the bankers get rich from more loans for more war and they also get to set up central banks in the countries we destroy and there are competing oil pipelines in Syria. One is for our petro dollar and one is Russian to sell off our scam of a system and use their own currency, along with the Chinese. You have zero understanding of Geo Politics so you should not speak about them.

    Super computer???????? You want me to pour water on it?

    Quickdraw [915500]

    You absolutely should question the science and I am glad that you are! So, for example, regarding global warming. If you are questioning that current global warming trends are caused by humans, here is a bunch of evidence, in addition to the book I already sent you, showing how it is cause pretty much entirely by humans:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2000JD000028/full

    http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/1520-0442%282004%29017%3C3721%3ACONAAF%3E2.0.CO%3B2

    http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.167.2337&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    http://thingsbreak.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/anthropogenic-and-natural-warming-inferred-from-changes-in-earths-energy-balance.pdf

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2011GL050226/full

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00382-012-1585-8

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jgrd.50239/abstract

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00382-016-3079-6

    Even if every single author in this list is a corrupt piece of shit, there is an abundance of data showing how global warming is caused by humans. If rather than questioning the science, you are accusing it of being wrong, you need to present evidence that shows why these studies are wrong. That is why I offered you the supercomputer, so that there is absolutely no excuse. You can either use data and evidence to prove these studies wrong, or stop making baseless accusations.

    LawOfOne [266775]

    Antarctic core samples such as Vostok and the EPICA prove that the earths temps go up and they go down as do ice levels. You are looking at global warming(lol) through a microscope that Al Gore sold you. Cycles up and cycles down!. For example over the 2000 years, we are only slightly, and I mean ever so slightly above average when looking at the evidence the trees give us. The MWP was not caused by humans and then temps dropped. For every article that you produce I can produce another peer reviewed article from another person that says the opposite. The reason for this is there is zero conciseness in science that these are man made events. Many will tell you as much, Including a weather expert like John Coleman. He knew much more than you on the subject as do many others. I will take their expert opinions. Sit down Mr. Gore!

    Quickdraw [915500]

    That is exactly right, the earths tempreature has cycled up and down in the past naturally. That does not mean that current warming is not caused by humans. It also does not mean thqt we should not worry. For example, during previous warm periods most of North America was underwater, it was a vast shallow sea! That would be a huge problem for us if the earth warms enough that it happens again. The reason we need to be concerned with current, human caused global warming is that our society was built around the current conditions. Most major cities are located near rivers so that they have a water supply. What will we do when the climate changes atmospheric circulation so that rainfall patterns change and the rivers are located in different places? What will we do when Florida is underwater? These are all things that will be incredibly expensive to deal with. It would be much cheaper to prevent these changes by stopping global warming now.

    I have been advocating that you investigate the science on your own so that you dont have to rely on an authority to tell you what to think because I think that is the best way to prevent the abuses of authority that you are worried about. But if you only want to trust an expert, I do in fact know what I am talking about. I am a scientist with a PhD who studies the impacts of global warming, so I am much more qualified to speak on the subject than John Coleman who only had a bachelors degree in journalism and based his views on things that are demonstrably false. If you can produce a bunch of peer reviewed articles that global warming is not caused by humans I would be happy to read them.

    MachineGunSteve [184119]

    Let's say I accept the fact that you know what you are talking about, and I accept the fact that humans are to cause for the minor fluctuations in temperature that are currently causing climate change to be more robust than is attributable to natural factors... so what?

    The problem I have with all of this is that there is no practical fix that I can conceive of or have read about that is achievable in a manner that probably won't cause a major collapse of our economy and way of life.

    If we in the USA suddenly stopped eating meat... all of us, and stopped driving to work... all of us... and stopped doing everything we are doing (impossible really) what impact would that have? Maybe a global reduction of 20% for our carbon footprint... say 25%... but then we may as well give the keys to the Russians and Chinese to the White House, and all march lock step into the nearest ocean.

    We are a capitalist nation (I guess... we try to be, or we call ourselves one... not sure anymore), so the market will eventually fix the problem in the USA. Solar panels are popping up on every roof in my neighborhood. Hybrid cars are everywhere... laws are being past to end plastic use in retail... etc., etc. What else should we do doctor?

    I would love for someone with an actual plan to run for office. Not someone with anecdotes, campaign slogans, and rhetoric, but an actual thought out plan to show us during their campaigning that looks like it would work without ruin to the national economy. I would vote for that person regardless of party. But I have yet to see that person, because there is no plan... there is only using the issue as a wedge and political gain, and that is just as bad as denying there is a problem in my opinion.

    Quickdraw [915500]

    This is the crux of the problem, and I believe the real reason why many conservatives choose to believe that global warming isn't real. The market cannot fix global warming because the market is based on the idea of an unlimited commons, so that if everybody does what is in their best interest things will work out. But the world is not an unlimited commons and if we pollute it we are ultimately ruining things for ourselves (read about the concept: tragedy of the commons). In order to avoid this we need to agree to fix it as a group (i.e. government intervention). One good way is a carbon tax of which there are many well thought out proposals, here is one since it is a science subforum from tye union of concerned scientists: https://www.ucsusa.org/our-work/global-warming/solutions/global-warming-solutions-reduce-emissions#.Wr-tbHNlBdZ

    So yeah there will be economic upheaval for people and companies that are based on fossil fuels, but for the vast majority of people there wont be much effect and we would be far better positioned for the future. If we do nothing (i.e. try to let the market fix global warming) then the economic consequences are far greater. The locations of our cities would need to be moved, crops will be far less productive. A scenario like that movie interstellar is possible where we can no longer grow enough food to feed ourselves. The economic consequences of inaction are far far greater.
    "In order to avoid this we need to agree to fix it as a group (i.e. government intervention)."

    There isn't a single world government, thus it is a near impossibility that there will ever be a unified agreement on fixing this issue. We in the USA don't whale anymore, but Japan still does. We in the USA don't grind Rhino horns into powder to keep our dicks hard, and other nations on earth up until recent times didn't contribute to climate change to the same degree that the USA has in the past for lots of reasons. Each and every nation on this globe, past and present, has contributed to the mess we are in, and only nature can, and eventually will fix it.

    I know how all the scenarios play out, and I honestly believe it is inevitable.

    We should be listening to Elon Musk, and the late Mr. Hawkings, imho.

    Earth Mother, Ganesha, Ra, Zeus, Jupiter, Mithra, Jesus, Allah,... GOD...  and the Internet God of conspiracies... I beg you:

     

    Please protect me from your followers.

     

     

    • PopadaPill [900338]
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    Posted on 13:06:11 - 02/04/18 (6 years ago)
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    Hmmm,how many Gods are here for you
    Last edited by PopadaPill on 13:07:07 - 02/04/18
    • MachineGunSteve [184119]
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    Posted on 14:08:08 - 02/04/18 (6 years ago)
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    PopadaPill [900338]







    Hmmm,how many Gods are here for you
    Those two are closer to god than the make believe concoctions that most organized religions have come up with, and they both advocate that we get our asses busy figuring out a way off this rock, as the only true purpose for life is the continuation of the species... that is my only point... I don't care what else either of them is/was up too beyond that simple message.
    Last edited by MachineGunSteve on 14:09:23 - 02/04/18

    Earth Mother, Ganesha, Ra, Zeus, Jupiter, Mithra, Jesus, Allah,... GOD...  and the Internet God of conspiracies... I beg you:

     

    Please protect me from your followers.

     

     

    • PopadaPill [900338]
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    Posted on 14:14:37 - 02/04/18 (6 years ago)
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    PopadaPill [900338]







    Hmmm,how many Gods are here for you

    MachineGunSteve [184119]

    Those two are closer to god than the make believe concoctions that most organized religions have come up with, and they both advocate that we get our asses busy figuring out a way off this rock, as the only true purpose for life is the continuation of the species... that is my only point... I don't care what else either of them is/was up too beyond that simple message.
    To you,not to me..My eyes work

    Good goy,This rock..we might as well strip it as thee Gods are going fly you to Mars

    A true Space cadet trained by Disney and Co
    Last edited by PopadaPill on 14:19:37 - 02/04/18
    • Ninivah [1950421]
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    Posted on 14:24:05 - 02/04/18 (6 years ago)
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    PopadaPill [900338]







    Hmmm,how many Gods are here for you
    Stephen Hawkings lived to an old age with a disease that should have killed him 2yrs after diagnosis. He dedicated his life to aiding humanity understand the universe. He was gifted with intelligence and he used it to the best of his abilities. I cant think of anything more noble.

    He was a man so of course he was going to die just like how you and die will die eventually. Whats your point?

    Yes, I'm mental. 

    No, it's okay.

     

     

     

    • MachineGunSteve [184119]
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    Posted on 14:24:59 - 02/04/18 (6 years ago)
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    PopadaPill [900338]







    Hmmm,how many Gods are here for you

    MachineGunSteve [184119]

    Those two are closer to god than the make believe concoctions that most organized religions have come up with, and they both advocate that we get our asses busy figuring out a way off this rock, as the only true purpose for life is the continuation of the species... that is my only point... I don't care what else either of them is/was up too beyond that simple message.

    PopadaPill [900338]

    To you,not to me..My eyes work

    Good goy,This rock..we might as well strip it as thee Gods are going fly you to Mars

    A true Space cadet trained by Disney and Co
    To you, not to me. 

    See it works both ways, Popa...

    I am jaded and cynical, but I am no Space Cadet.

    I pray thee pray to whichever alter thee see fit, while I search for the exit.
    Last edited by MachineGunSteve on 14:27:39 - 02/04/18

    Earth Mother, Ganesha, Ra, Zeus, Jupiter, Mithra, Jesus, Allah,... GOD...  and the Internet God of conspiracies... I beg you:

     

    Please protect me from your followers.

     

     

    • PopadaPill [900338]
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    Posted on 14:25:20 - 02/04/18 (6 years ago)
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    PopadaPill [900338]







    Hmmm,how many Gods are here for you

    Ninivah [1950421]

    Stephen Hawkings lived to an old age with a disease that should have killed him 2yrs after diagnosis. He dedicated his life to aiding humanity understand the universe. He was gifted with intelligence and he used it to the best of his abilities. I cant think of anything more noble.

    He was a man so of course he was going to die just like how you and die will die eventually. Whats your point?
    It was great for his skin though.

    Whats the point?Nothing with you,your eyes dont work either.
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