Chedburn [1]

Anything which evokes a reaction without seriously crossing misogynistic / racist / offensive lines (which Duke certainly doesn't), is awesome in my eyes, and it looks like that has been achieved. Duke is supposed to be dumb, slightly old-fashioned and accidentally (slightly) offensive without meaning to be. It's not like we the developers, or the creative writers are sexist: it's that we feel these kinds of people do exist in the world, and most certainly exist in a city like Torn.

Philistine [475622]

How balanced are you expecting people who are going to give you missions which involve murder, theft, arson (or any other number of things which are pretty taboo in normal society) to be? Unless someone comes out who gives you genteel missions which are going to involve less shady things, I wouldn't expect a broad spectrum of personality types, crime tends to attract a certain type of person, and it isn't usually the nice or polite type.

And wouldn't it be a little funny if people giving out those kinds of missions were all scrubbed with the PC/SJW/whatever the proper lingo is today brush? If Duke was a priest, talking in clean polite sanctified tones, while having you cave in someone's skull because their wife didn't pay their loans, wouldn't it make you do a double take at least the first time?

If I may, I would also propose a counter-point. If Chedburn made the female physicist into one of those extreme feminazis who was always make derisive comments towards men, or her picture had her drinking out of a male tears cup or something like that, would you find issue with that? Do you think most guys would find issue with that, or even notice?

Philistine [475622]

How balanced are you expecting people who are going to give you missions which involve murder, theft, arson (or any other number of things which are pretty taboo in normal society) to be? Unless someone comes out who gives you genteel missions which are going to involve less shady things, I wouldn't expect a broad spectrum of personality types, crime tends to attract a certain type of person, and it isn't usually the nice or polite type.

And wouldn't it be a little funny if people giving out those kinds of missions were all scrubbed with the PC/SJW/whatever the proper lingo is today brush? If Duke was a priest, talking in clean polite sanctified tones, while having you cave in someone's skull because their wife didn't pay their loans, wouldn't it make you do a double take at least the first time?

If I may, I would also propose a counter-point. If Chedburn made the female physicist into one of those extreme feminazis who was always make derisive comments towards men, or her picture had her drinking out of a male tears cup or something like that, would you find issue with that? Do you think most guys would find issue with that, or even notice?

1945959 [1945959]

Ever hear of white collar crime? Counterfeiting and forgery? Art theft? And we're not even delving into politics. The most dangerous criminals are ones who do not seem to be criminals at all. The bad guys don't always wear black hats and twirl their mustaches while tying Nell Fenwick to the railway tracks. I loved the Dr Horrible Sing-Along Blog with Neil Patrick Harris as the villain. It's a comedy musical, written during the 07-08 writer's strike and released on the internet for free (thus not violating the terms of the strike). But definitely provides a different perspective on villains (the protagonist here) and heroes (the antagonist).

Philistine [475622]

How balanced are you expecting people who are going to give you missions which involve murder, theft, arson (or any other number of things which are pretty taboo in normal society) to be? Unless someone comes out who gives you genteel missions which are going to involve less shady things, I wouldn't expect a broad spectrum of personality types, crime tends to attract a certain type of person, and it isn't usually the nice or polite type.

And wouldn't it be a little funny if people giving out those kinds of missions were all scrubbed with the PC/SJW/whatever the proper lingo is today brush? If Duke was a priest, talking in clean polite sanctified tones, while having you cave in someone's skull because their wife didn't pay their loans, wouldn't it make you do a double take at least the first time?

If I may, I would also propose a counter-point. If Chedburn made the female physicist into one of those extreme feminazis who was always make derisive comments towards men, or her picture had her drinking out of a male tears cup or something like that, would you find issue with that? Do you think most guys would find issue with that, or even notice?

1945959 [1945959]

Ever hear of white collar crime? Counterfeiting and forgery? Art theft? And we're not even delving into politics. The most dangerous criminals are ones who do not seem to be criminals at all. The bad guys don't always wear black hats and twirl their mustaches while tying Nell Fenwick to the railway tracks. I loved the Dr Horrible Sing-Along Blog with Neil Patrick Harris as the villain. It's a comedy musical, written during the 07-08 writer's strike and released on the internet for free (thus not violating the terms of the strike). But definitely provides a different perspective on villains (the protagonist here) and heroes (the antagonist).

Philistine [475622]

Sure, if you have someone come out who assigns you art theft, someone who wants to pass themselves off as a suave and sophisticated fellow (a la White Collar, I think that was the show) then I could see him talking in a cultured way, avoiding language that would irritate people.

But how many of the crimes in Torn are of the white collar variety and not likely to involve pond scum out of a gutter? I guess you could make the argument that searching for cash is white collar, but none of the other stuff is really what I would consider white collar where nobody can get hurt.

I believe searching for cash is the only crime that doesn't put you in jail or the hospital at this time? And the game doesn't take hurting regular people into account, so we don't even have to get into that, but it would also be a factor.

We could keep going on I guess, but by and large the Oceans 11 kind of gangster who is opposed to hurting anyone, being a perfect gentleman and only taking from those who can afford to lose stuff is pretty rare in the real world. You mostly end up with folks like Duke, who do what they do and don't give a hoot about what anyone else thinks about them. The ends always justify the means for them and etc, you know how it goes.

I would say Torn nailed the character pretty well in that aspect, and if the other mission givers tend to give out the same sort of thing, it would be pretty disingenuous to make them into really nice people who then ask you to do really not-nice things.

It is just a game either way, in the long run they are going to give you plenty of variety I would expect, so if you disapprove of some of the NPCs, just don't talk to them. It seems the simplest solution.

Chedburn [1]

Anything which evokes a reaction without seriously crossing misogynistic / racist / offensive lines (which Duke certainly doesn't), is awesome in my eyes, and it looks like that has been achieved. Duke is supposed to be dumb, slightly old-fashioned and accidentally (slightly) offensive without meaning to be. It's not like we the developers, or the creative writers are sexist: it's that we feel these kinds of people do exist in the world, and most certainly exist in a city like Torn.

rainbowsaurus [1884204]

I wouldn't wanna meet you down a dark alley. Or a well-lit one you ugly S.O.B! - Duke

Guess Duke doesn't like my buns :(

Chedburn [1]

Woops! That was missed during rewrites - our mistake. It will be fixed (it's defaulting to Male response atm).

Chedburn [1]

Anything which evokes a reaction without seriously crossing misogynistic / racist / offensive lines (which Duke certainly doesn't), is awesome in my eyes, and it looks like that has been achieved. Duke is supposed to be dumb, slightly old-fashioned and accidentally (slightly) offensive without meaning to be. It's not like we the developers, or the creative writers are sexist: it's that we feel these kinds of people do exist in the world, and most certainly exist in a city like Torn.

Stork [1874681]

This somewhat off-topic discussion has brought up an interesting point about our interactions with NPCs in Torn, as a game centralized on crime, violence, and other activities people normally try to avoid.

To a certain extent, being opposed to discrimination and sexist comments implies that you value equality, justice, and respect in real life. But by joining this game, you agree to expose yourself to and commit crimes, even in a fictional context. As should be expected, this comes along with having to interact with some NPCs that make some questionable comments.

Obviously, as a young woman, I have mixed feelings about being spoken to (even by an NPC) in such a suggestive way. But it reminds me that it may be a good idea to question myself why I play a crime game for fun if I'm not able to laugh about these parts of it.

rainbowsaurus [1884204]

I wouldn't wanna meet you down a dark alley. Or a well-lit one you ugly S.O.B! - Duke

Guess Duke doesn't like my buns :(

Chedburn [1]

Woops! That was missed during rewrites - our mistake. It will be fixed (it's defaulting to Male response atm).

rainbowsaurus [1884204]

"This is a nothing job. I'd say it was beneath you, but then this voice in my head asks, have we ever found something that was beneath you? And I answer, nothing yet except the soles of your shoes, and hopefully never my sister if ya know what's good for ya!"

I'm not sure if the male responses are fixed yet...?

rainbowsaurus [1884204]

I wouldn't wanna meet you down a dark alley. Or a well-lit one you ugly S.O.B! - Duke

Guess Duke doesn't like my buns :(

Chedburn [1]

Woops! That was missed during rewrites - our mistake. It will be fixed (it's defaulting to Male response atm).

rainbowsaurus [1884204]

"This is a nothing job. I'd say it was beneath you, but then this voice in my head asks, have we ever found something that was beneath you? And I answer, nothing yet except the soles of your shoes, and hopefully never my sister if ya know what's good for ya!"

I'm not sure if the male responses are fixed yet...?

DarthKitten [1686319]

Or, ya know .... lesbianism is fine with him. How progressive, eh?