Intricate [1957884]

Pro-Palestine activists claim that ”Israel is lying” and in the same breath cite Hamas, a terror sect, as a reliable source of information.

Hamas, which kills and tortures its civilians.

Hamas, which uses Palestinians as human shields.

Hamas, which TRAINS and CELEBRATES children "martyrs".

Hamas, which wears civilian clothes to maximize the number of civilian casualties.

Yet pro-Palestine activists relentlessly cite them and their numbers as a reliable source of information.

We keep hearing that 12,000 people and 5,000 children have been killed. Where do these quick numbers keep coming from? From Hamas? The same terrorist sect that’s hiding in underground tunnels? The same terrorist sect that slaughters its people and aims to turn the whole world into an Islamic caliphate?

It took Israel weeks to identify the 1,400 civilians murdered on October 7. Israel, by the way, produces more scientific research than the entire Arab world combined.

Meanwhile, pro-Palestine activists are relying on Hamas’ information. The barbarian terrorist sect that’s hiding in tunnels.

Relying on Hamas’ information is no different than relying on ISIS media channels for legitimate information.

These terrorist sects behead and slaughter their people.

Stop buying and spreading the terrorists’ propaganda.

- Laui Ahmed

Sidgar [1828507]

If you’re talking about the casualty numbers, experts agree that they are reliable. Your case would be helped if Israel wasn’t bombing Gaza indiscriminately, leveling entire neighborhoods and killing entire extended families. The UN has called it a graveyard of children. I’ve also heard it called the graveyard of humanity’s conscience.

Asbestos [2605613]

You may be missing the point completely. In fact you definitely are. No one is calling me a Nazi at all. I’m not Israeli and I’m not a Jew. But I will stand up to hate speech when I see it.

The point all along is how disgusting and reprehensible it is to call Jews, Israelis, Zionists, etc Nazis. People can have whatever opinion about Israel v Palestine they want, but on this one item there really isn’t a compromise. It’s hate speech. In the same vein, I think it would be absolute hate speech to call Palestinians “a bunch of IDF soldiers” or Ukrainians “a bunch of Russians” or African Americans “a bunch of plantation owners” or Muslims “terrorists” simply by dint of their religion.


If you can’t see why that kind of speech is wrong, shame on you.

If you think I’m a fascist, that’s fine. You’re wrong but you’re entitled to your opinion. (That right there flies in the face of fascism) I’m also not in favor of genocide.


The optimal end to this conflict in my eyes is for the Palestinians to remove this criminal syndicate of serial killers as their government and figure out how to live in harmony with their neighbors without vowing to wipe them off the map constantly.

Lenin [2199004]

In the same vein, I think it would be absolute hate speech to call Palestinians “a bunch of IDF soldiers” or Ukrainians “a bunch of Russians” or African Americans “a bunch of plantation owners” or Muslims “terrorists” simply by dint of their religion.

nah lmao. only that last one is of any real concern, and doesnt fit with the rest. the rest are delusional to think of as "hate speech".

the fact is, jews, israeilis, zionists, whatever, are not above being "nazi-like" by virtue of their history any more than a communist, roma, or ukrainian, russian, or pole is. any individual/state in those victim groups is capable of being colloquially "nazi-like".

the liberal use of the smearing cry of "anti-semetism" at each and every directed comment towards israel is a deliberate attempt to terminate thought and critique, nothing else. israel, despite the ethnonationalist wishes of their government, is not "judaism".

take your "shame" and shove it.

Vernunzio [730674]

*Some* of the criticism of, and double-standards applied to, Israel is rooted in antisemitism.

Claiming that *all* criticism is illegitimately waved away as antisemitism is dismissing the idea that antisemitism is legitimately a factor at all in the conflict. That is as bad, or as thought-terminating, to use your word, as dismissing all criticism as antisemitic. Absolutes are usually not accurate and are not conducive to an honest exchange of ideas.

Regarding your claims of Nazism, while the situation in Gaza is terrible, it is not the same, in scale or intent or in any other way, as the systematic rounding up and extermination of 6 million people in gas chambers and concentration camps. You can argue that Israel's actions have not sufficiently minimized civilian casualties, but it is beyond dispute that Israel has taken more than zero actions to reduce civilian casualties. Linking these two wildly different situations is intellectually lazy and diminishes the horrors of the Holocaust - is that your true intention?

You also like to use blanket terms to describe all of Israel, whether it is Nazi, or authoritarian ethno-state. This ignores the fact that there is a wide range of opinion within Israel (not to mention all the Israeli peace proposals that Palestinian leadership refused to engage with). It demonizes and otherizes an entire state, and by extension an entire religion (even if you don't extend it that way, it is obvious if you watch the news that plenty of people do, and you give them support and momentum). No one outside of Netanyahu's cabinet and staunchest supporters lumps all of Palestine in among the worst attributes of Palestine's elected leadership the same way that this is done to Israel. Why do you refer to Israel as an authoritarian ethno-state but not refer to Palestine as a terrorist territory that pursues a doctrine of weaponized systematic **** and genocide? It would be wrong to generalize Palestine this way, but it is also wrong to generalize Israel the way you do.

The thing about these labels is that it buys into the false binary oppressor/oppressed narrative, this thought-terminating construct you follow, and therefore blesses any depraved act committed against the "oppressor," because oppressor bad and oppressed good. And in this false binary narrative, if you are good and the other side is bad, you can do all sorts of bad stuff to them, and still be "good," and you can even seek to eliminate that entire bad populace in the pursuit of good, and blithely dismiss any evidence or argument to the contrary. This is precisely what some in Netanyahu's cabinet are seeking to do to Palestine, and it is precisely what Hamas and many people elsewhere in the world are seeking to do to Israel.

Vernunzio [730674]

Can we have a separate thread for Seba-Nile and grey_yahoo and whoever else to post their discredited racist propaganda memes, if Torn is not going to censor them at all?

These memes are false, derogatory, and inflammatory, are targeted at a particular religion and ethnicity, and seek to derail any actual discussion people are trying to have about a very sensitive subject. They have been discredited time after time, and simply pivot and come back with more.

They won't even acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist. I have seen a few pro-Israel, or anti-terrorist posters fedded since this conflict began. What line does someone like Seba have to cross before his posts are moderated?

Vernunzio [730674]

Yes, I advocate removing any illegal West Bank settlements and prosecuting any criminal acts committed in their formation. Why did you assume otherwise?

It's not that you are the first person I've heard say "apartheid" or "occupation." The thing is, I don't think these words are applied fairly, accurately, or consistently. Palestine and Israel both have their share of religious supremacists. However, it seems like bad acts of some Israelis are attributed to all Israelis and also to Jews throughout the world, and used to justify crimes and hatred against the entire country of Israel, while the bad acts of Hamas and others are held apart from acts of all of Palestine or all of Islam (as they should of course be distinguished that way, but I ask for the same commonsense courtesy to be extended to Israel/Judaism).

In addition to that, those words are cynically, deceitfully, and intentionally weaponized by the very people who would seek the elimination of Israel from the river to the sea. You only have to look at the words and actions in these forums of people like Seba_Nile and Smilin_Assassin to see what I am talking about.

Vernunzio [730674]

Can we have a separate thread for Seba-Nile and grey_yahoo and whoever else to post their discredited racist propaganda memes, if Torn is not going to censor them at all?

These memes are false, derogatory, and inflammatory, are targeted at a particular religion and ethnicity, and seek to derail any actual discussion people are trying to have about a very sensitive subject. They have been discredited time after time, and simply pivot and come back with more.

They won't even acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist. I have seen a few pro-Israel, or anti-terrorist posters fedded since this conflict began. What line does someone like Seba have to cross before his posts are moderated?

Seba_Nile [1782274]

No, you just find it hard to justify israels war crimes. How are they false if you can read about it on Hareetz (israeli source) or even history books. Ofcourse, Hareetz is now under fire in the knesset for harming israels image during this genocide.

Look at B'Tselem an israeli group which exposes israels genocide and ethnic cleansing/ apartheid and settler colonialism.

Also when you and your likes (Asb and collete) post cartoons of terrorists and they dont get censored yet you expect me who posts pictures directly from the incident to get moderated?

Vernunzio [730674]

*Some* of the criticism of, and double-standards applied to, Israel is rooted in antisemitism.

Claiming that *all* criticism is illegitimately waved away as antisemitism is dismissing the idea that antisemitism is legitimately a factor at all in the conflict. That is as bad, or as thought-terminating, to use your word, as dismissing all criticism as antisemitic. Absolutes are usually not accurate and are not conducive to an honest exchange of ideas.

Regarding your claims of Nazism, while the situation in Gaza is terrible, it is not the same, in scale or intent or in any other way, as the systematic rounding up and extermination of 6 million people in gas chambers and concentration camps. You can argue that Israel's actions have not sufficiently minimized civilian casualties, but it is beyond dispute that Israel has taken more than zero actions to reduce civilian casualties. Linking these two wildly different situations is intellectually lazy and diminishes the horrors of the Holocaust - is that your true intention?

You also like to use blanket terms to describe all of Israel, whether it is Nazi, or authoritarian ethno-state. This ignores the fact that there is a wide range of opinion within Israel (not to mention all the Israeli peace proposals that Palestinian leadership refused to engage with). It demonizes and otherizes an entire state, and by extension an entire religion (even if you don't extend it that way, it is obvious if you watch the news that plenty of people do, and you give them support and momentum). No one outside of Netanyahu's cabinet and staunchest supporters lumps all of Palestine in among the worst attributes of Palestine's elected leadership the same way that this is done to Israel. Why do you refer to Israel as an authoritarian ethno-state but not refer to Palestine as a terrorist territory that pursues a doctrine of weaponized systematic **** and genocide? It would be wrong to generalize Palestine this way, but it is also wrong to generalize Israel the way you do.

The thing about these labels is that it buys into the false binary oppressor/oppressed narrative, this thought-terminating construct you follow, and therefore blesses any depraved act committed against the "oppressor," because oppressor bad and oppressed good. And in this false binary narrative, if you are good and the other side is bad, you can do all sorts of bad stuff to them, and still be "good," and you can even seek to eliminate that entire bad populace in the pursuit of good, and blithely dismiss any evidence or argument to the contrary. This is precisely what some in Netanyahu's cabinet are seeking to do to Palestine, and it is precisely what Hamas and many people elsewhere in the world are seeking to do to Israel.

Vernunzio [730674]

Can we have a separate thread for Seba-Nile and grey_yahoo and whoever else to post their discredited racist propaganda memes, if Torn is not going to censor them at all?

These memes are false, derogatory, and inflammatory, are targeted at a particular religion and ethnicity, and seek to derail any actual discussion people are trying to have about a very sensitive subject. They have been discredited time after time, and simply pivot and come back with more.

They won't even acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist. I have seen a few pro-Israel, or anti-terrorist posters fedded since this conflict began. What line does someone like Seba have to cross before his posts are moderated?

Seba_Nile [1782274]

No, you just find it hard to justify israels war crimes. How are they false if you can read about it on Hareetz (israeli source) or even history books. Ofcourse, Hareetz is now under fire in the knesset for harming israels image during this genocide.

Look at B'Tselem an israeli group which exposes israels genocide and ethnic cleansing/ apartheid and settler colonialism.

Also when you and your likes (Asb and collete) post cartoons of terrorists and they dont get censored yet you expect me who posts pictures directly from the incident to get moderated?

Vernunzio [730674]

Yes, I advocate removing any illegal West Bank settlements and prosecuting any criminal acts committed in their formation. Why did you assume otherwise?

It's not that you are the first person I've heard say "apartheid" or "occupation." The thing is, I don't think these words are applied fairly, accurately, or consistently. Palestine and Israel both have their share of religious supremacists. However, it seems like bad acts of some Israelis are attributed to all Israelis and also to Jews throughout the world, and used to justify crimes and hatred against the entire country of Israel, while the bad acts of Hamas and others are held apart from acts of all of Palestine or all of Islam (as they should of course be distinguished that way, but I ask for the same commonsense courtesy to be extended to Israel/Judaism).

In addition to that, those words are cynically, deceitfully, and intentionally weaponized by the very people who would seek the elimination of Israel from the river to the sea. You only have to look at the words and actions in these forums of people like Seba_Nile and Smilin_Assassin to see what I am talking about.

Sidgar [1828507]

Let me just say I disagree with your depiction of every criticism of Israel as an attack on Jewish people as a whole and on Judaism. This is unwise and will eventually prove damaging. Palestinians don't have a history of persecuting Jews. Much of the anti-Jewish sentiment there cannot be divorced from the suffering of Palestinians under Israel. As Bassem Youssef said, Palestinians didn't chant "Jews will not replace us". In Gaza they say worse stuff, in between the bombings, during the downtime. And as Normal Finkelstein said, Gazans have a right to hate Israel. And you must agree they would hate Israel even if Israel had another name and was associated with another religion and ethnic group.

Regarding the settlements, I'm heartened you have such a stance. I myself am skeptical of the practicality of it. A viable Palestinian state seems more distant than ever, between the growing settlements and the increasingly extremist governments. This is why I think one state with equal rights for all is better. And I've heard the arguments for why Israel won't agree to a Palestinian state and also why they won't agree to a single state. But things were never going to turn out just fine when Zionists decided to carve out their state where they did at the expense of its inhabitants.

Vernunzio [730674]

Can we have a separate thread for Seba-Nile and grey_yahoo and whoever else to post their discredited racist propaganda memes, if Torn is not going to censor them at all?

These memes are false, derogatory, and inflammatory, are targeted at a particular religion and ethnicity, and seek to derail any actual discussion people are trying to have about a very sensitive subject. They have been discredited time after time, and simply pivot and come back with more.

They won't even acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist. I have seen a few pro-Israel, or anti-terrorist posters fedded since this conflict began. What line does someone like Seba have to cross before his posts are moderated?

Seba_Nile [1782274]

No, you just find it hard to justify israels war crimes. How are they false if you can read about it on Hareetz (israeli source) or even history books. Ofcourse, Hareetz is now under fire in the knesset for harming israels image during this genocide.

Look at B'Tselem an israeli group which exposes israels genocide and ethnic cleansing/ apartheid and settler colonialism.

Also when you and your likes (Asb and collete) post cartoons of terrorists and they dont get censored yet you expect me who posts pictures directly from the incident to get moderated?

Asbestos [2605613]

Big honest pictures like this one that you posted, master historian? You wouldn’t know a history book if you were sitting on it to see over the steering wheel. Even after you got shredded for your fake “history” you still cling to the gaslighting.


Your crap is foolishly easy to debunk. You’ve been exposed as a liar and an imposter. No one with any sense believes you. Go cook Larten’s dinner so it’s done in time for you to straighten up the house before you rub his feet.

Staff Edit - Advertising

Vernunzio [730674]

Can we have a separate thread for Seba-Nile and grey_yahoo and whoever else to post their discredited racist propaganda memes, if Torn is not going to censor them at all?

These memes are false, derogatory, and inflammatory, are targeted at a particular religion and ethnicity, and seek to derail any actual discussion people are trying to have about a very sensitive subject. They have been discredited time after time, and simply pivot and come back with more.

They won't even acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist. I have seen a few pro-Israel, or anti-terrorist posters fedded since this conflict began. What line does someone like Seba have to cross before his posts are moderated?

Seba_Nile [1782274]

No, you just find it hard to justify israels war crimes. How are they false if you can read about it on Hareetz (israeli source) or even history books. Ofcourse, Hareetz is now under fire in the knesset for harming israels image during this genocide.

Look at B'Tselem an israeli group which exposes israels genocide and ethnic cleansing/ apartheid and settler colonialism.

Also when you and your likes (Asb and collete) post cartoons of terrorists and they dont get censored yet you expect me who posts pictures directly from the incident to get moderated?

Asbestos [2605613]

Big honest pictures like this one that you posted, master historian? You wouldn’t know a history book if you were sitting on it to see over the steering wheel. Even after you got shredded for your fake “history” you still cling to the gaslighting.


Your crap is foolishly easy to debunk. You’ve been exposed as a liar and an imposter. No one with any sense believes you. Go cook Larten’s dinner so it’s done in time for you to straighten up the house before you rub his feet.

Staff Edit - Advertising

Seba_Nile [1782274]

This was in British-mandate occupied Palestine.

Vernunzio [730674]

Can we have a separate thread for Seba-Nile and grey_yahoo and whoever else to post their discredited racist propaganda memes, if Torn is not going to censor them at all?

These memes are false, derogatory, and inflammatory, are targeted at a particular religion and ethnicity, and seek to derail any actual discussion people are trying to have about a very sensitive subject. They have been discredited time after time, and simply pivot and come back with more.

They won't even acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist. I have seen a few pro-Israel, or anti-terrorist posters fedded since this conflict began. What line does someone like Seba have to cross before his posts are moderated?

Seba_Nile [1782274]

No, you just find it hard to justify israels war crimes. How are they false if you can read about it on Hareetz (israeli source) or even history books. Ofcourse, Hareetz is now under fire in the knesset for harming israels image during this genocide.

Look at B'Tselem an israeli group which exposes israels genocide and ethnic cleansing/ apartheid and settler colonialism.

Also when you and your likes (Asb and collete) post cartoons of terrorists and they dont get censored yet you expect me who posts pictures directly from the incident to get moderated?

Asbestos [2605613]

Big honest pictures like this one that you posted, master historian? You wouldn’t know a history book if you were sitting on it to see over the steering wheel. Even after you got shredded for your fake “history” you still cling to the gaslighting.


Your crap is foolishly easy to debunk. You’ve been exposed as a liar and an imposter. No one with any sense believes you. Go cook Larten’s dinner so it’s done in time for you to straighten up the house before you rub his feet.

Staff Edit - Advertising

Seba_Nile [1782274]

This was in British-mandate occupied Palestine.

Asbestos [2605613]

Deflecting from being caught in your lies?