Message to the Israeli People - Page 8 | Politics & Law | TORN

Message to the Israeli People

    • deadalus29 [2536273]
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    Posted on 05:22:44 - 12/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    deadalus29 [2536273]

    What genocide are you refereeing to? to the negative "genocide" (AKA - positive growth rate) the Palestinians are currently experiencing?
    The international laws clearly states that killing civilians is OK, in certain cases (which, needless to say, happens at the Gaza strip)

    How Hamas can be removed without bombing (also) innocent people? Please answer with practical tactical solution which will not result in more innocents death and allow Israel to win the war which was forced upon it.

    Smilin-Assassin [965750]

    How about the root cause of Hamas? How they came into being and why? Because last I checked, you remove cancer not by shooting and bombing nearby patients, doctors, hospitals, mosques, bakeries, homes, refugee camps and churches. If that's how you would treat cancer, you'd run out of business soon enough unless you have Biden on your side, falling with every step he takes.

    There is only one genocide currently being discussed. And no one will say that it's the Zionists because they are apparently defending themselves from children and women based on their murder rate. Wrong way to remove Hamas if you ask me. That's like removing every other cell but the cancer cell.

    But then again, I wouldn't know. I haven't read the Hamas charter or the Zionist charter.

    deadalus29 [2536273]

    I have no idea what you are talking about, but your cancer example is great - when you treat cancer you have to damage healthy cells as well.

    You dont call a doctor who cut out healthy cells along with the cancerous cell a mutilator, so you shouldnt call Israel, who kills innocents along with cancerous Hamas terrorists murderers

    Smilin-Assassin [965750]

    No, you don't "have" to. That's why oncologists don't operate on certain brain tumors. Like the ones on the brain stem because it's typically inoperable. Get what I am saying? You don't bomb a whole open-air prison of 2.2m civilians to kill a measly 40k people. Because chances are, you will be killing everything and everyone else like it is happening as we see right now. They have been bombing for a month and Hamas is still alive and well as far as we can see on X, formerly Twitter. And that to me is enough to make me believe that the zionists are doing something else.

    Also, why cut off and block electricity, and water for the 2.2 million Gazans? Not to mention the bombing of hospitals, bakeries, churches, mosques, and refugee camps and the fishermen's boats on Gaza's shore. Because Hamas drinks water, uses electricity to charge their GoPros, and lives under those buildings eating bread, pastries, and fish?

    One month of bombing has proven that Hamas isn't their target because Hamas isn't weakening and the Gazans aren't leaving Gaza. So why not stop the bombing because they (the army of the occupiers) aren't achieving what they want (unless this is exactly what they want)? You say that Hamas uses human shields. Human shields to defend themselves from what? White phosphorus and 30k tons of bombs? From the buildings that collapse on top of themselves?

    deadalus29 [2536273]

    You don't bomb a whole open-air prison of 2.2m civilians to kill a measly 40k people. Because chances are, you will be killing everything and everyone else like it is happening as we see right now
    Do you recognize the fact that this is not happening, in our reality, right? The death toll in the Palestinian side is not 2.2M, in contrast to your claims, and Israel did not bombed the whole Gaza strip.

    I need to ask because it may be seen from your thing you call text that you have lost all connection to the real world.

    They stop the electricity and bomb houses because Hamas uses the electricity to pump air to the tunnels he dug below the said houses, and they bomb fishermen boat because Hamas uses them as attack boats to drop terrorists on Israel's beaches and murder innocent civilians, just like they did on 7/10 terror attacks.

    IDF has won many battles against the Hamas in the past month. Your claim that Hamas is not weakening is without any correlation to the real world, again.

    Smilin-Assassin [965750]

    I truly cherish the feeling of satisfaction when my questions are answered, as it not only broadens my knowledge but also reaffirms the importance of addressing every inquiry in any argument. So I appreciate that before I humbly ask some more questions.
    Do you recognize the fact that this is not happening, in our reality, right? The death toll in the Palestinian side is not 2.2M, in contrast to your claims, and Israel did not bombed the whole Gaza strip.
    Never, not even once, did I say that the death toll in Palestine has reached 2.2 million. We both know you don't understand English well. So let's not talk hastily. I said, and I quote, "You don't bomb a whole open-air prison of 2.2m civilians to kill a measly 40k people". The zionists are bombing Gaza. They are killing Gazans. The death toll has exceeded 10k, the last time I checked. And from what i have seen from the zionist media, Hamas is merely 40k freedom fighters. Your "peace-loving" zionists are bombing THE WHOLE OF GAZA. Who the f**k says we bombed xx.xx and gives f**king coordination or the area of the land? THE ZIONISTS ARE BOMBING GAZA.

    I need to ask because it may be seen from your thing you call text that you have lost all connection to the real world.
    Go ahead and ask. I see no question. I will answer whatever question you have.

    They stop the electricity and bomb houses because Hamas uses the electricity to pump air to the tunnels he dug below the said houses, and they bomb fishermen boat because Hamas uses them as attack boats to drop terrorists on Israel's beaches and murder innocent civilians, just like they did on 7/10 terror attacks.
    Cut electricity from 2.2 million people, including 100+ premature babies in NICU because Hamas needs oxygen in their underground tunnels? I wonder how they have been fighting the zionists for this long without air then. Makes me think that the Hamas are like turtles or some shit that don't need to breathe like humans do. Don't know much about them except that they are destroying Merkava tanks like they are made of tin.

    bomb the fishermen's boats because Hamas used them as attack boats... I am trying not to laugh at that statement... have you seen these boats you're calling attack boats?

    What you are saying is that collective punishment is what the zionists are doing, yes? They are depriving 2.2 million Gazans of basic human necessities to hurt Hamas? And yet, whenever I check certain X handles for updates on the war, I see a bunch of Merkavas broken. Hamas is like a cockroach, eh?

    IDF has won many battles against the Hamas in the past month.
    That is nice, right? Many battles were won against Hamas in the past month. And yet, You do not see the zionists making claims of destroying anything meaningful, do you? I mean, I certainly don't. And I have seen the zionists destroy hundreds of thousands of buildings. But nothing on their advancement into Gaza by land. Why? Doesn't want to celebrate too early? That must be it yeah. Makes more sense.

    Your claim that Hamas is not weakening is without any correlation to the real world, again.
    Yeah, no correlation to the real world. Just in my head.

    Now, I ask more questions.
    1. What are they doing in the West Bank where there is no Hamas? Last I saw, 155 West Bankers murdered since October 7th.
    2. Why do you think Israel only managed to kill 60 or so Hamas fighters when they have dropped 30,000 + tons of bombs on Gaza?
    3. Do you think that bombing Gaza (an open-air prison of 2.2 million people, and half of that is children under the age of 18) is the way to go about finding where Hamas is? Why?
    4. Where do you think the 1000s of Gazans seeking refuge in hospitals should evacuate/go to when the zionists call them to evacuate so that they can destroy the hospitals?
    5. If the zionists are so sure about the tunnels under Al-Shifa Hospital, why don't they use a more precise approach?
    6. Why drop 30,000 tons of bombs and destroy literally every building including refugee camps and murder 10,300+ civilians?
    Never, not even once, did I say that the death toll in Palestine has reached 2.2 million. We both know you don't understand English well. So let's not talk hastily. I said, and I quote, "You don't bomb a whole open-air prison of 2.2m civilians to kill a measly 40k people". The zionists are bombing Gaza. They are killing Gazans. The death toll has exceeded 10k, the last time I checked. And from what i have seen from the zionist media, Hamas is merely 40k freedom fighters. Your "peace-loving" zionists are bombing THE WHOLE OF GAZA. Who the f**k says we bombed xx.xx and gives f**king coordination or the area of the land? THE ZIONISTS ARE BOMBING GAZA.
    I'm sorry, but what exactly do you mean by the claim the Israel bomb "whole of Gaza"?
    If you mean by that the all (or most) of the building were bombed than nope, that never happened. Israel is bombing only selected buildings (which they claim are a valid military targets) while most of the buildings are left standing.

    Cut electricity from 2.2 million people, including 100+ premature babies in NICU because Hamas needs oxygen in their underground tunnels? I wonder how they have been fighting the zionists for this long without air then. Makes me think that the Hamas are like turtles or some shit that don't need to breathe like humans do. Don't know much about them except that they are destroying Merkava tanks like they are made of tin.
    1) Turtles need to breath like humans do.
    2) Hamas had stockpiled gas to their generators, gas the refuse to share with their hospitals and babies in the NICU.
    3) Electrical infrastructure of the military that fights you is a valid target.

    bomb the fishermen's boats because Hamas used them as attack boats... I am trying not to laugh at that statement... have you seen these boats you're calling attack boats?

    Its floats? Its carries terrorist to murder civilians at the beach? Its an attack boat...
    You dont need to sink an aircraft carrier with that, just to murder civilians...

    That is nice, right? Many battles were won against Hamas in the past month. And yet, You do not see the zionists making claims of destroying anything meaningful, do you? I mean, I certainly don't. And I have seen the zionists destroy hundreds of thousands of buildings. But nothing on their advancement into Gaza by land. Why? Doesn't want to celebrate too early? That must be it yeah. Makes more sense.

    I dont understand what you are trying to say, but I did see report on Israelis destroying major Hamas base and claiming that they are soon to conquere Hamas headquarters under Saifa hospital, which are gain by land advancement.

    1. What are they doing in the West Bank where there is no Hamas? Last I saw, 155 West Bankers murdered since October 7th.

    There are armed terrorists in the west bank, from Hamas and other organizations. nothing new there

    2. Why do you think Israel only managed to kill 60 or so Hamas fighters when they have dropped 30,000 + tons of bombs on Gaza?
    They didnt. According to previous battles numbers it is safe to assume that Israel killed ~5K Hamas fighters (in Gaza alone, more 2K that invaded Israel on 7/10). Hamas simply lie and says that they are civilians.

    3. Do you think that bombing Gaza (an open-air prison of 2.2 million people, and half of that is children under the age of 18) is the way to go about finding where Hamas is? Why?
    No one has said that the bombings are to find the location of Hamas, it is quite the opposite - They know where Hamas is and they bombing just those buildings. Sadly, Hamas uses tactics of human shield and uses many "civilian" buildings as its outposts.

    4. Where do you think the 1000s of Gazans seeking refuge in hospitals should evacuate/go to when the zionists call them to evacuate so that they can destroy the hospitals?
    To south of Gaza, according to IDF instructions.

    5. If the zionists are so sure about the tunnels under Al-Shifa Hospital, why don't they use a more precise approach?
    Sadly, the Israel Enterprise 1701D has its transporters under maintenance, so military maneuver accompanied by close fire support is the next best thing

    6. Why drop 30,000 tons of bombs and destroy literally every building including refugee camps and murder 10,300+ civilians?
    Again, you prove that you have no connection with our reality. In the real world, most of Gaza stand untouched, with only limited (but many) number of builders were bombed. You can see that yourself in any "horrific" picture from Gaza - many buildings stands.

    Hamas (Palestine's leaders) intentionally murder children and elderly for fun.
    If you support Palestine you also support intentional murder of children and elderly.
    Its that simple.

    • Jabajaba [2499335]
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    Posted on 07:11:13 - 12/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Jabajaba [2499335]

    https://youtu.be/wiGp2mvFLY0?si=8Zpff8zSJ2Ch5eTy

    Have a listen to this chap - International law should be followed at all times, no excuses. Genocide is genocide, simple as that.

    Hamas should be able to be removed without bombing innocent people or telling 2m civilians to "move" in 24 hours...

    I am personally appalled by the UK and US stance on all of this - the nations that troll around the world claiming to be morally superior to everyone else, only until they decide that it is in their interest to back an ally that is commiting horrendous war crimes.

    This is not anything to do with religion. You just need to be a human being to see that the innocent people killed in Israel by hamas is wrong and the backlash on innocent civilians in Palestine is wrong.

    deadalus29 [2536273]

    What genocide are you refereeing to? to the negative "genocide" (AKA - positive growth rate) the Palestinians are currently experiencing?
    The international laws clearly states that killing civilians is OK, in certain cases (which, needless to say, happens at the Gaza strip)

    How Hamas can be removed without bombing (also) innocent people? Please answer with practical tactical solution which will not result in more innocents death and allow Israel to win the war which was forced upon it.
    You should watch the YouTube clip buddy. All action needs to be proportionate. There's 20k Hamas and 2m civilians. Bombing a refugee camp to kill 1 hamas but murdering 500+ civilians is against international law. He covers the genocide of the Palestinian people and is a reputable source (just left the UN after 30+ years as he felt he could do more good outside and a lawyer).

    I'm not here to debate strategy. Simply stating there must be another way rather than killing people (mainly children - 50% of the population) that have nothing to do with it, other than to be unlucky enough to be born there.

    • Collete [1389080]
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    Posted on 07:14:41 - 12/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Jabajaba [2499335]

    https://youtu.be/wiGp2mvFLY0?si=8Zpff8zSJ2Ch5eTy

    Have a listen to this chap - International law should be followed at all times, no excuses. Genocide is genocide, simple as that.

    Hamas should be able to be removed without bombing innocent people or telling 2m civilians to "move" in 24 hours...

    I am personally appalled by the UK and US stance on all of this - the nations that troll around the world claiming to be morally superior to everyone else, only until they decide that it is in their interest to back an ally that is commiting horrendous war crimes.

    This is not anything to do with religion. You just need to be a human being to see that the innocent people killed in Israel by hamas is wrong and the backlash on innocent civilians in Palestine is wrong.

    deadalus29 [2536273]

    What genocide are you refereeing to? to the negative "genocide" (AKA - positive growth rate) the Palestinians are currently experiencing?
    The international laws clearly states that killing civilians is OK, in certain cases (which, needless to say, happens at the Gaza strip)

    How Hamas can be removed without bombing (also) innocent people? Please answer with practical tactical solution which will not result in more innocents death and allow Israel to win the war which was forced upon it.

    Jabajaba [2499335]

    You should watch the YouTube clip buddy. All action needs to be proportionate. There's 20k Hamas and 2m civilians. Bombing a refugee camp to kill 1 hamas but murdering 500+ civilians is against international law. He covers the genocide of the Palestinian people and is a reputable source (just left the UN after 30+ years as he felt he could do more good outside and a lawyer).

    I'm not here to debate strategy. Simply stating there must be another way rather than killing people (mainly children - 50% of the population) that have nothing to do with it, other than to be unlucky enough to be born there.
    yes hamas should surrender or at least come out and fight like men then hide behind women and children its bad enough they are filthy rapist and murderers but to endanger their own people because they are cowards and wont fight like real men is sad/

    Kaizaki defeated the dried  up witch and got her prince in the end.

    • deadalus29 [2536273]
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    Posted on 07:44:04 - 12/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Jabajaba [2499335]

    https://youtu.be/wiGp2mvFLY0?si=8Zpff8zSJ2Ch5eTy

    Have a listen to this chap - International law should be followed at all times, no excuses. Genocide is genocide, simple as that.

    Hamas should be able to be removed without bombing innocent people or telling 2m civilians to "move" in 24 hours...

    I am personally appalled by the UK and US stance on all of this - the nations that troll around the world claiming to be morally superior to everyone else, only until they decide that it is in their interest to back an ally that is commiting horrendous war crimes.

    This is not anything to do with religion. You just need to be a human being to see that the innocent people killed in Israel by hamas is wrong and the backlash on innocent civilians in Palestine is wrong.

    deadalus29 [2536273]

    What genocide are you refereeing to? to the negative "genocide" (AKA - positive growth rate) the Palestinians are currently experiencing?
    The international laws clearly states that killing civilians is OK, in certain cases (which, needless to say, happens at the Gaza strip)

    How Hamas can be removed without bombing (also) innocent people? Please answer with practical tactical solution which will not result in more innocents death and allow Israel to win the war which was forced upon it.

    Jabajaba [2499335]

    You should watch the YouTube clip buddy. All action needs to be proportionate. There's 20k Hamas and 2m civilians. Bombing a refugee camp to kill 1 hamas but murdering 500+ civilians is against international law. He covers the genocide of the Palestinian people and is a reputable source (just left the UN after 30+ years as he felt he could do more good outside and a lawyer).

    I'm not here to debate strategy. Simply stating there must be another way rather than killing people (mainly children - 50% of the population) that have nothing to do with it, other than to be unlucky enough to be born there.
    How do you define the proportion ratio?

    I do not know of a case where 500 innocents civilians were killed to get only one Hamas guy, but continuing your argument - If that Hamas guy is high ranking officer and killing him would greatly diminish the ability of 20k warriors to fight than yes, that seems like a proportionate attack.

    Beside? how do you value the life of the defender against the life of the assailant (as the moral of the human race in the last 5000 years dictate that we should)? If that Hamas guy was finishing the immediate terror attack which will kill 50 Israel civilians than killing 500 enemy's civilians will be just, according to the defender. It is the enemy fault (and formal war crime) that it uses its civilians as human shield.

    I will write it again - a person who believe for more then 10 seconds that a nation which experience a positive growth rate is undergoing a genocide is a full retard person. Genocide is destroying a nation, and positive growth rate is literally the exact opposite.

    If you can come up with a way to fight terror organization which uses its civilians as human shields without killing those civilians you should advise it to Israel, which will immediately do just that, they are the last one who need more hate against them at the moment. Until you find such a way you should not claim that such a way "must be exist" because apparently, it doesnt exist.
    Last edited by deadalus29 on 07:47:37 - 12/11/23

    Hamas (Palestine's leaders) intentionally murder children and elderly for fun.
    If you support Palestine you also support intentional murder of children and elderly.
    Its that simple.

    • Jabajaba [2499335]
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    Posted on 07:32:50 - 13/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Jabajaba [2499335]

    https://youtu.be/wiGp2mvFLY0?si=8Zpff8zSJ2Ch5eTy

    Have a listen to this chap - International law should be followed at all times, no excuses. Genocide is genocide, simple as that.

    Hamas should be able to be removed without bombing innocent people or telling 2m civilians to "move" in 24 hours...

    I am personally appalled by the UK and US stance on all of this - the nations that troll around the world claiming to be morally superior to everyone else, only until they decide that it is in their interest to back an ally that is commiting horrendous war crimes.

    This is not anything to do with religion. You just need to be a human being to see that the innocent people killed in Israel by hamas is wrong and the backlash on innocent civilians in Palestine is wrong.

    deadalus29 [2536273]

    What genocide are you refereeing to? to the negative "genocide" (AKA - positive growth rate) the Palestinians are currently experiencing?
    The international laws clearly states that killing civilians is OK, in certain cases (which, needless to say, happens at the Gaza strip)

    How Hamas can be removed without bombing (also) innocent people? Please answer with practical tactical solution which will not result in more innocents death and allow Israel to win the war which was forced upon it.

    Jabajaba [2499335]

    You should watch the YouTube clip buddy. All action needs to be proportionate. There's 20k Hamas and 2m civilians. Bombing a refugee camp to kill 1 hamas but murdering 500+ civilians is against international law. He covers the genocide of the Palestinian people and is a reputable source (just left the UN after 30+ years as he felt he could do more good outside and a lawyer).

    I'm not here to debate strategy. Simply stating there must be another way rather than killing people (mainly children - 50% of the population) that have nothing to do with it, other than to be unlucky enough to be born there.

    deadalus29 [2536273]

    How do you define the proportion ratio?

    I do not know of a case where 500 innocents civilians were killed to get only one Hamas guy, but continuing your argument - If that Hamas guy is high ranking officer and killing him would greatly diminish the ability of 20k warriors to fight than yes, that seems like a proportionate attack.

    Beside? how do you value the life of the defender against the life of the assailant (as the moral of the human race in the last 5000 years dictate that we should)? If that Hamas guy was finishing the immediate terror attack which will kill 50 Israel civilians than killing 500 enemy's civilians will be just, according to the defender. It is the enemy fault (and formal war crime) that it uses its civilians as human shield.

    I will write it again - a person who believe for more then 10 seconds that a nation which experience a positive growth rate is undergoing a genocide is a full retard person. Genocide is destroying a nation, and positive growth rate is literally the exact opposite.

    If you can come up with a way to fight terror organization which uses its civilians as human shields without killing those civilians you should advise it to Israel, which will immediately do just that, they are the last one who need more hate against them at the moment. Until you find such a way you should not claim that such a way "must be exist" because apparently, it doesnt exist.
    So under international law, this is actually deemed collective punishment of a people. So is illegal.

    But as with your groups of likers or dislikers it seems that it doesn't matter the actual reality of the situation.

    The refugee camp is a real example - check it out. And no murdering 500 innocents for 1 person is not something that could ever be acceptable.

    A full ground offensive would have been a better option than bombing or shelling then at least soldiers can decide whether they want to directly murder innocent people :)

    • Halrian [3023326]
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    Posted on 08:56:29 - 13/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Jabajaba [2499335]

    So under international law, this is actually deemed collective punishment of a people. So is illegal.

    But as with your groups of likers or dislikers it seems that it doesn't matter the actual reality of the situation.

    The refugee camp is a real example - check it out. And no murdering 500 innocents for 1 person is not something that could ever be acceptable.

    A full ground offensive would have been a better option than bombing or shelling then at least soldiers can decide whether they want to directly murder innocent people :)
    A point for thinking,ground offensive got it's disadvantages.Put yourself in the shoes of soldier entering hostile territory or a cop arresting a suspect.Each move of each civilian can look threatening and on cases of which the civilian is armed, ignoring it means your death.When terrorists are hiding among civilians,there is zero ways to avoid civilian deaths completely, regardless of the way operations are intiaited.A war has civilian costs,all that can be done are measures to minimize this costs.
    • Kasto [2151656]
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    Posted on 09:16:27 - 13/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Jabajaba [2499335]

    So under international law, this is actually deemed collective punishment of a people. So is illegal.

    But as with your groups of likers or dislikers it seems that it doesn't matter the actual reality of the situation.

    The refugee camp is a real example - check it out. And no murdering 500 innocents for 1 person is not something that could ever be acceptable.

    A full ground offensive would have been a better option than bombing or shelling then at least soldiers can decide whether they want to directly murder innocent people :)
    We can all talk from the comfort of our seats, but reality is there is a war between Palestine and Israel. A war that wasn't started by Israel.

    We can all cry about laws and legalities, but reality is, during an active war, no one gives a crap. If you have served, you would know that the safety of your battallion/group is way more important than enemy civilians. Especially, when there are enemies hiding on the enemy civilian population or the civilian population aids/hides the enemy.

    At that stage, it's their lives versus your life/group's life.

    It's war, there are casualties. Does that make it okay? Hell no. But I do not try to even comprehend the thoughts of soldiers going into Gaza.

    It's fine to talk about ethics and morals from the safety of our chairs, but when you are in hell, you do not have the luxury to think like that.

    That is war for the past thousand years, and it's evident that nothing will change. Especially, when we saw the atrocities in Ukraine/Russian which was the closest to Western Nations.

    Good luck implementing international laws to US war crimes. Good luck implementing international laws to Israel who is backed by US.
    Last edited by Kasto on 10:46:32 - 13/11/23
    • deadalus29 [2536273]
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    Posted on 17:30:30 - 13/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Jabajaba [2499335]

    https://youtu.be/wiGp2mvFLY0?si=8Zpff8zSJ2Ch5eTy

    Have a listen to this chap - International law should be followed at all times, no excuses. Genocide is genocide, simple as that.

    Hamas should be able to be removed without bombing innocent people or telling 2m civilians to "move" in 24 hours...

    I am personally appalled by the UK and US stance on all of this - the nations that troll around the world claiming to be morally superior to everyone else, only until they decide that it is in their interest to back an ally that is commiting horrendous war crimes.

    This is not anything to do with religion. You just need to be a human being to see that the innocent people killed in Israel by hamas is wrong and the backlash on innocent civilians in Palestine is wrong.

    deadalus29 [2536273]

    What genocide are you refereeing to? to the negative "genocide" (AKA - positive growth rate) the Palestinians are currently experiencing?
    The international laws clearly states that killing civilians is OK, in certain cases (which, needless to say, happens at the Gaza strip)

    How Hamas can be removed without bombing (also) innocent people? Please answer with practical tactical solution which will not result in more innocents death and allow Israel to win the war which was forced upon it.

    Jabajaba [2499335]

    You should watch the YouTube clip buddy. All action needs to be proportionate. There's 20k Hamas and 2m civilians. Bombing a refugee camp to kill 1 hamas but murdering 500+ civilians is against international law. He covers the genocide of the Palestinian people and is a reputable source (just left the UN after 30+ years as he felt he could do more good outside and a lawyer).

    I'm not here to debate strategy. Simply stating there must be another way rather than killing people (mainly children - 50% of the population) that have nothing to do with it, other than to be unlucky enough to be born there.

    deadalus29 [2536273]

    How do you define the proportion ratio?

    I do not know of a case where 500 innocents civilians were killed to get only one Hamas guy, but continuing your argument - If that Hamas guy is high ranking officer and killing him would greatly diminish the ability of 20k warriors to fight than yes, that seems like a proportionate attack.

    Beside? how do you value the life of the defender against the life of the assailant (as the moral of the human race in the last 5000 years dictate that we should)? If that Hamas guy was finishing the immediate terror attack which will kill 50 Israel civilians than killing 500 enemy's civilians will be just, according to the defender. It is the enemy fault (and formal war crime) that it uses its civilians as human shield.

    I will write it again - a person who believe for more then 10 seconds that a nation which experience a positive growth rate is undergoing a genocide is a full retard person. Genocide is destroying a nation, and positive growth rate is literally the exact opposite.

    If you can come up with a way to fight terror organization which uses its civilians as human shields without killing those civilians you should advise it to Israel, which will immediately do just that, they are the last one who need more hate against them at the moment. Until you find such a way you should not claim that such a way "must be exist" because apparently, it doesnt exist.

    Jabajaba [2499335]

    So under international law, this is actually deemed collective punishment of a people. So is illegal.

    But as with your groups of likers or dislikers it seems that it doesn't matter the actual reality of the situation.

    The refugee camp is a real example - check it out. And no murdering 500 innocents for 1 person is not something that could ever be acceptable.

    A full ground offensive would have been a better option than bombing or shelling then at least soldiers can decide whether they want to directly murder innocent people :)
    Hmm, nope. Collective punishment is a punishment to the civilians without any military gain by itself, in hope that the population will expose/damage the military targets. Since we agreed that attack's target was indeed a military target it is clearly not the case.

    I did not find the case you are speaking about. The worst case of bombing refugee camp by Israel that i've seen talks about ~200 dead (by Hamas, a known terrorist organization, account), in several attacks (and not a single attack), and several Hamas leaders were targeted in those attacks, according to IDF (and not just one).
    If you want to continue discuss on a real case please referee to it.

    A full ground offensive, as you suggested, will only result in much more innocents death. When the ground troops will encounter their enemy they will call to a close artillery and air support which will result in the complete destruction of entire blocks of buildings, in contrast to the limited number of buildings which are being bombed.
    Moreover, if the ground offense will start without bombing more civilians would remain in the area, as the fear of bombs encouraging civilians to flee more effectively than the other types of warning issued by the IDF.

    Investing more than 10 seconds of thinking will show that your suggestion to lower the number of civilians death will only increase it...

    Hamas (Palestine's leaders) intentionally murder children and elderly for fun.
    If you support Palestine you also support intentional murder of children and elderly.
    Its that simple.

    • Seba_Nile [1782274]
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    Posted on 20:53:17 - 13/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Why are Israelis forbidden from taking DNA tests xD why did their presidents like Netanyahu, Ariel Sharon and Ehud have to change their white ass last names to sound more indigenous xD

    8auSZpU.png

    • Seba_Nile [1782274]
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    Posted on 20:54:43 - 13/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Seba_Nile [1782274]





    I like how you totally ignored the video and other stuff that showed no Israel before 1948 massacre genocide and settler colonialism which is now an apartheid state.


    Asbestos [2605613]

    Sebas Propaganda Technique 3A: When caught in a lie, ignore and deflect. Do not ever admit being wrong and pasting bullshit from a propaganda site.

    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    Lod was a city in Palestine. Lod underwent a major change in its population in the mid-20th century. Exclusively Palestinian Arab in 1947, Lod was part of the area designated for an Arab state in the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine; however, in July 1948, the city was occupied by the IDF, and most of its Arab inhabitants were expelled in the 1948 Palestinian expulsion from Lydda and Ramle.

    you didn’t dispel or prove anything. It was a Palestinian airport.

    Asbestos [2605613]

    Ridiculous. It was a British air station. But more importantly, we can confirm with certainty that the stuff you or some propagandist pasted over the picture (look: 1944) is complete crap, because it wouldn’t have said Welcome to Lod at all until 1948.


    It was built British, stayed British, and then was disputed from April 1948 when the British gave it up, until July 1948, ending up under Israeli control.


    The city of Lod was never a city in Palestine. If you were going to make that claim, you would have called it by its Arab name “Lydda” instead of its Hebrew name “Lod”

    ”Welcome to Lod” on the side of the building speaks absolute volumes to the lies you tell. You’ve been absolutely caught in your nonsense on this one.


    Sebas Propaganda Technique 3B: When pressed, continue to deflect. Double down on the lies. Gaslight. Do not ever admit being wrong and pasting bullshit from a propaganda site.

    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    Who were there before the British mandate/ occupation, it was Palestinian land.

    deadalus29 [2536273]

    Nope, thats one of your lies that you lie in hope that a stupid forum reader might believe you.
    A non stupid forum reader will do the quickest of search and will find out that before the British mandate the area was an Ottoman land, and all the Arab population was loyal Ottoman subjects, without any reference to a distinct Palestinian nation, beside the bureaucratic reference to the county of Palestine, a county in the Ottoman empire, which can not be regarded as a state in any way or form.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Palestinians
    According to your logic, there was no Indians in the Indian subcontinent during British colonialism it was just British lands. Stupid idiot. Hope the same happens to you and your family

    8auSZpU.png

    • Collete [1389080]
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    Posted on 20:58:30 - 13/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    ‘I didn’t have the history’ beech go read the bible. Go read any history book, world map or atlas. You’ll see there existed Palestine but not Israel.




























    If you ask a Native American or Palestinian about their culture they will be able to show you traditions and clothes of their people, if you ask an America or Israeli they won’t as they are colonisers living on land they stole from someone else. Black trench coat and hat in the desert? Lmao

    Kasto [2151656]

    As you can see from the image below, everything was conquered by the Great Alexander. Can we agree that everything belongs to Greece? We liberated the whole are from Persian rule. So we own everything. Including Turkey (Sorry).

    With your logic, Greece should go to war with Albania because there was no Albania before, it was created with a British promise. Or go to war with Turkey to retake constantinople.

    Or, hear me out, we can learn to live together in harmony. Have you tried that?

    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    If Israel can claim Palestine, the Arabs can claim Spain, the Italians can claim England. That’s what I’m saying Israel has no right to claim a land that’s not there’s, Palestine has always been there and will always be there.

    exactly what I’m saying. Under Islamic rule for the past 1400 years, Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together peacefully here. Infact it was the Muslims who invited Jewish families back back in the later part of the 5th century and again after the crusades. Again the Palestinians let them in here when Christian- secular euorope would oppress them, yet this time they took everything from Palestinians and didn’t want to coexist peacefully.

    don’t tell me to live peacefully with someone who killed my family, steals my home, land, wealth, business and agriculture and tries to distort my history.
    Aint you from Bangladesh you mong

    Kaizaki defeated the dried  up witch and got her prince in the end.

    • Seba_Nile [1782274]
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    Posted on 21:17:25 - 13/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    ‘I didn’t have the history’ beech go read the bible. Go read any history book, world map or atlas. You’ll see there existed Palestine but not Israel.




























    If you ask a Native American or Palestinian about their culture they will be able to show you traditions and clothes of their people, if you ask an America or Israeli they won’t as they are colonisers living on land they stole from someone else. Black trench coat and hat in the desert? Lmao

    Kasto [2151656]

    As you can see from the image below, everything was conquered by the Great Alexander. Can we agree that everything belongs to Greece? We liberated the whole are from Persian rule. So we own everything. Including Turkey (Sorry).

    With your logic, Greece should go to war with Albania because there was no Albania before, it was created with a British promise. Or go to war with Turkey to retake constantinople.

    Or, hear me out, we can learn to live together in harmony. Have you tried that?

    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    If Israel can claim Palestine, the Arabs can claim Spain, the Italians can claim England. That’s what I’m saying Israel has no right to claim a land that’s not there’s, Palestine has always been there and will always be there.

    exactly what I’m saying. Under Islamic rule for the past 1400 years, Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together peacefully here. Infact it was the Muslims who invited Jewish families back back in the later part of the 5th century and again after the crusades. Again the Palestinians let them in here when Christian- secular euorope would oppress them, yet this time they took everything from Palestinians and didn’t want to coexist peacefully.

    don’t tell me to live peacefully with someone who killed my family, steals my home, land, wealth, business and agriculture and tries to distort my history.

    Collete [1389080]

    Aint you from Bangladesh you mong
    You’re so used to copy and paste, you can’t comprehend simple sentences.

    how can you tell someone to live peacefully when they kill your family, steal your home, land, wealth, business and agriculture etc.

    8auSZpU.png

    • deadalus29 [2536273]
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    Posted on 22:07:57 - 13/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Asbestos [2605613]

    Sebas Propaganda Technique 3A: When caught in a lie, ignore and deflect. Do not ever admit being wrong and pasting bullshit from a propaganda site.

    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    Lod was a city in Palestine. Lod underwent a major change in its population in the mid-20th century. Exclusively Palestinian Arab in 1947, Lod was part of the area designated for an Arab state in the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine; however, in July 1948, the city was occupied by the IDF, and most of its Arab inhabitants were expelled in the 1948 Palestinian expulsion from Lydda and Ramle.

    you didn’t dispel or prove anything. It was a Palestinian airport.

    Asbestos [2605613]

    Ridiculous. It was a British air station. But more importantly, we can confirm with certainty that the stuff you or some propagandist pasted over the picture (look: 1944) is complete crap, because it wouldn’t have said Welcome to Lod at all until 1948.


    It was built British, stayed British, and then was disputed from April 1948 when the British gave it up, until July 1948, ending up under Israeli control.


    The city of Lod was never a city in Palestine. If you were going to make that claim, you would have called it by its Arab name “Lydda” instead of its Hebrew name “Lod”

    ”Welcome to Lod” on the side of the building speaks absolute volumes to the lies you tell. You’ve been absolutely caught in your nonsense on this one.


    Sebas Propaganda Technique 3B: When pressed, continue to deflect. Double down on the lies. Gaslight. Do not ever admit being wrong and pasting bullshit from a propaganda site.

    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    Who were there before the British mandate/ occupation, it was Palestinian land.

    deadalus29 [2536273]

    Nope, thats one of your lies that you lie in hope that a stupid forum reader might believe you.
    A non stupid forum reader will do the quickest of search and will find out that before the British mandate the area was an Ottoman land, and all the Arab population was loyal Ottoman subjects, without any reference to a distinct Palestinian nation, beside the bureaucratic reference to the county of Palestine, a county in the Ottoman empire, which can not be regarded as a state in any way or form.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Palestinians

    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    According to your logic, there was no Indians in the Indian subcontinent during British colonialism it was just British lands. Stupid idiot. Hope the same happens to you and your family
    Nope, you continue to lie stupid lies in hope for a stupid forum reader will somehow support you.
    A non stupid reader will know with a quick search that the Indians in the Indian subcontinent have a rich history of ruling the land of India, therefore my logic will dictate that there were Indians during the British colonialism, in contrast to your lie.

    Hamas (Palestine's leaders) intentionally murder children and elderly for fun.
    If you support Palestine you also support intentional murder of children and elderly.
    Its that simple.

    • daprinceomar [2125322]
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    Posted on 23:23:24 - 13/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    • Markland [1385260]
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    Posted on 01:04:18 - 14/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Where is the outcry from the world over this:


    No one, however, offends liberal and centrist Israelis quite like Itamar Ben-Gvir. Ben-Gvir, who entered parliament in 2021, leads a far-right party called Otzma Yehudit, or Jewish Power. His role model and ideological wellspring has long been Meir Kahane, a Brooklyn rabbi who moved to Israel in 1971 and, during a single term in the Knesset, tested the moral limits of the country. Israeli politicians strive to reconcile Israel’s identities as a Jewish state and a democracy. Kahane argued that “the idea of a democratic Jewish state is nonsense.” In his view, demographic trends would inevitably turn Israel’s non-Jews into a majority, and so the ideal solution was “the immediate transfer of the Arabs.” To Kahane, Arabs were “dogs” who “must sit quietly or get the hell out.” His rhetoric was so virulent that lawmakers from both sides of the aisle used to walk out of the Knesset when he spoke. His party, Kach (Thus), was finally barred from parliament in 1988. Jewish Power is an ideological offshoot of Kach; Ben-Gvir served as a Kach youth leader and has called Kahane a “saint.”

    Ben-Gvir, who is forty-six, has been convicted on at least eight charges, including supporting a terrorist organization and incitement to racism, compiling a criminal record so long that, when he appeared before a judge, “we had to change the ink on the printer,” Dvir Kariv, a former official in the Shin Bet intelligence agency, told me. As recently as last October, Netanyahu refused to share a stage with him, or even to be seen with him in photographs. But a series of disappointing elections persuaded Netanyahu to change his mind.



    This man is the Minister of the Interior in Israel, given that position by Bibi and who has responsibility for much of what goes on in the occupied West Bank

    Can you imagine the outcry if any other country in the world had put a person convicted under terrorism legislation in one of the most powerful positions in their government?

    He was a member of Kach (Kahane Chai) which was designated as a terrorist organisation by the USA

    As Kach became less active it was downgraded to a Specially Designated Global Terrorist Entity by the USA

    There are good and bad people on both sides

    There are extremists on both sides

    And there are terrorists and their supporters on both sides
    • Asbestos [2605613]
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    Posted on 05:55:43 - 14/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    Why are Israelis forbidden from taking DNA tests xD why did their presidents like Netanyahu, Ariel Sharon and Ehud have to change their white ass last names to sound more indigenous xD
    Because the world has a nasty habit of rounding them up and killing them, so they understandably don’t want to store this kind of data where craven murderers might be able to gain access to it. But you knew that, because you support and fantasize about it.


    • Collete [1389080]
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    Posted on 06:20:17 - 14/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    ‘I didn’t have the history’ beech go read the bible. Go read any history book, world map or atlas. You’ll see there existed Palestine but not Israel.




























    If you ask a Native American or Palestinian about their culture they will be able to show you traditions and clothes of their people, if you ask an America or Israeli they won’t as they are colonisers living on land they stole from someone else. Black trench coat and hat in the desert? Lmao

    Kasto [2151656]

    As you can see from the image below, everything was conquered by the Great Alexander. Can we agree that everything belongs to Greece? We liberated the whole are from Persian rule. So we own everything. Including Turkey (Sorry).

    With your logic, Greece should go to war with Albania because there was no Albania before, it was created with a British promise. Or go to war with Turkey to retake constantinople.

    Or, hear me out, we can learn to live together in harmony. Have you tried that?

    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    If Israel can claim Palestine, the Arabs can claim Spain, the Italians can claim England. That’s what I’m saying Israel has no right to claim a land that’s not there’s, Palestine has always been there and will always be there.

    exactly what I’m saying. Under Islamic rule for the past 1400 years, Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together peacefully here. Infact it was the Muslims who invited Jewish families back back in the later part of the 5th century and again after the crusades. Again the Palestinians let them in here when Christian- secular euorope would oppress them, yet this time they took everything from Palestinians and didn’t want to coexist peacefully.

    don’t tell me to live peacefully with someone who killed my family, steals my home, land, wealth, business and agriculture and tries to distort my history.

    Collete [1389080]

    Aint you from Bangladesh you mong

    Seba_Nile [1782274]

    You’re so used to copy and paste, you can’t comprehend simple sentences.

    how can you tell someone to live peacefully when they kill your family, steal your home, land, wealth, business and agriculture etc.
    Yes the land was stolen from the jewish people in the first place

    Kaizaki defeated the dried  up witch and got her prince in the end.

    • Collete [1389080]
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    Posted on 06:21:20 - 14/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Markland [1385260]

    Where is the outcry from the world over this:


    No one, however, offends liberal and centrist Israelis quite like Itamar Ben-Gvir. Ben-Gvir, who entered parliament in 2021, leads a far-right party called Otzma Yehudit, or Jewish Power. His role model and ideological wellspring has long been Meir Kahane, a Brooklyn rabbi who moved to Israel in 1971 and, during a single term in the Knesset, tested the moral limits of the country. Israeli politicians strive to reconcile Israel’s identities as a Jewish state and a democracy. Kahane argued that “the idea of a democratic Jewish state is nonsense.” In his view, demographic trends would inevitably turn Israel’s non-Jews into a majority, and so the ideal solution was “the immediate transfer of the Arabs.” To Kahane, Arabs were “dogs” who “must sit quietly or get the hell out.” His rhetoric was so virulent that lawmakers from both sides of the aisle used to walk out of the Knesset when he spoke. His party, Kach (Thus), was finally barred from parliament in 1988. Jewish Power is an ideological offshoot of Kach; Ben-Gvir served as a Kach youth leader and has called Kahane a “saint.”

    Ben-Gvir, who is forty-six, has been convicted on at least eight charges, including supporting a terrorist organization and incitement to racism, compiling a criminal record so long that, when he appeared before a judge, “we had to change the ink on the printer,” Dvir Kariv, a former official in the Shin Bet intelligence agency, told me. As recently as last October, Netanyahu refused to share a stage with him, or even to be seen with him in photographs. But a series of disappointing elections persuaded Netanyahu to change his mind.



    This man is the Minister of the Interior in Israel, given that position by Bibi and who has responsibility for much of what goes on in the occupied West Bank

    Can you imagine the outcry if any other country in the world had put a person convicted under terrorism legislation in one of the most powerful positions in their government?

    He was a member of Kach (Kahane Chai) which was designated as a terrorist organisation by the USA

    As Kach became less active it was downgraded to a Specially Designated Global Terrorist Entity by the USA

    There are good and bad people on both sides

    There are extremists on both sides

    And there are terrorists and their supporters on both sides
    He would fit in well with the hamas hes as crazy as them

    Kaizaki defeated the dried  up witch and got her prince in the end.

    • Markland [1385260]
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    Posted on 15:17:36 - 14/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Markland [1385260]

    Where is the outcry from the world over this:


    No one, however, offends liberal and centrist Israelis quite like Itamar Ben-Gvir. Ben-Gvir, who entered parliament in 2021, leads a far-right party called Otzma Yehudit, or Jewish Power. His role model and ideological wellspring has long been Meir Kahane, a Brooklyn rabbi who moved to Israel in 1971 and, during a single term in the Knesset, tested the moral limits of the country. Israeli politicians strive to reconcile Israel’s identities as a Jewish state and a democracy. Kahane argued that “the idea of a democratic Jewish state is nonsense.” In his view, demographic trends would inevitably turn Israel’s non-Jews into a majority, and so the ideal solution was “the immediate transfer of the Arabs.” To Kahane, Arabs were “dogs” who “must sit quietly or get the hell out.” His rhetoric was so virulent that lawmakers from both sides of the aisle used to walk out of the Knesset when he spoke. His party, Kach (Thus), was finally barred from parliament in 1988. Jewish Power is an ideological offshoot of Kach; Ben-Gvir served as a Kach youth leader and has called Kahane a “saint.”

    Ben-Gvir, who is forty-six, has been convicted on at least eight charges, including supporting a terrorist organization and incitement to racism, compiling a criminal record so long that, when he appeared before a judge, “we had to change the ink on the printer,” Dvir Kariv, a former official in the Shin Bet intelligence agency, told me. As recently as last October, Netanyahu refused to share a stage with him, or even to be seen with him in photographs. But a series of disappointing elections persuaded Netanyahu to change his mind.



    This man is the Minister of the Interior in Israel, given that position by Bibi and who has responsibility for much of what goes on in the occupied West Bank

    Can you imagine the outcry if any other country in the world had put a person convicted under terrorism legislation in one of the most powerful positions in their government?

    He was a member of Kach (Kahane Chai) which was designated as a terrorist organisation by the USA

    As Kach became less active it was downgraded to a Specially Designated Global Terrorist Entity by the USA

    There are good and bad people on both sides

    There are extremists on both sides

    And there are terrorists and their supporters on both sides

    Collete [1389080]

    He would fit in well with the hamas hes as crazy as them
    Like I said, there are crazies on both sides

    And its the good, ordinary, innocent people that are suffering and dying in plain sight of the whole world with few, if any, words of condemnation

    Murder and war crimes are still murder and war crimes no matter who commits them or why
    • Sidgar [1828507]
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    Posted on 17:05:39 - 14/11/23 (9 months ago)
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    Markland [1385260]

    Where is the outcry from the world over this:


    No one, however, offends liberal and centrist Israelis quite like Itamar Ben-Gvir. Ben-Gvir, who entered parliament in 2021, leads a far-right party called Otzma Yehudit, or Jewish Power. His role model and ideological wellspring has long been Meir Kahane, a Brooklyn rabbi who moved to Israel in 1971 and, during a single term in the Knesset, tested the moral limits of the country. Israeli politicians strive to reconcile Israel’s identities as a Jewish state and a democracy. Kahane argued that “the idea of a democratic Jewish state is nonsense.” In his view, demographic trends would inevitably turn Israel’s non-Jews into a majority, and so the ideal solution was “the immediate transfer of the Arabs.” To Kahane, Arabs were “dogs” who “must sit quietly or get the hell out.” His rhetoric was so virulent that lawmakers from both sides of the aisle used to walk out of the Knesset when he spoke. His party, Kach (Thus), was finally barred from parliament in 1988. Jewish Power is an ideological offshoot of Kach; Ben-Gvir served as a Kach youth leader and has called Kahane a “saint.”

    Ben-Gvir, who is forty-six, has been convicted on at least eight charges, including supporting a terrorist organization and incitement to racism, compiling a criminal record so long that, when he appeared before a judge, “we had to change the ink on the printer,” Dvir Kariv, a former official in the Shin Bet intelligence agency, told me. As recently as last October, Netanyahu refused to share a stage with him, or even to be seen with him in photographs. But a series of disappointing elections persuaded Netanyahu to change his mind.



    This man is the Minister of the Interior in Israel, given that position by Bibi and who has responsibility for much of what goes on in the occupied West Bank

    Can you imagine the outcry if any other country in the world had put a person convicted under terrorism legislation in one of the most powerful positions in their government?

    He was a member of Kach (Kahane Chai) which was designated as a terrorist organisation by the USA

    As Kach became less active it was downgraded to a Specially Designated Global Terrorist Entity by the USA

    There are good and bad people on both sides

    There are extremists on both sides

    And there are terrorists and their supporters on both sides
    Everyone thinks Bibi's political career is finished. But when he's gone, the likes of Ben-Gvir and Smotrich will take center stage.

    11:45:34 - 05/07/21 You used 10 energy and 6 happiness training your dexterity in Force Training increasing it by 1,111.11 to 2,307,004.07

    14:08:06 - 17/11/21 You used 18 nerve successfully hacking the F.B.I mainframe gaining $300,000

    01:21:40 - 17/01/22 You used 18 nerve successfully hacking the F.B.I mainframe gaining $350,350

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