China protests - Page 9 | Politics & Law | TORN
China protests
    • Unlucky [2472585]
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    Posted on 12:53:18 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    I mean I’ve literally told you something I believe in the last half an hour. 


    If you stop pretending I’ve said things and read what I’ve said you’ll learn things.
    • Lenin [2199004]
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    Posted on 13:05:27 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    Unlucky [2472585]

    I mean I’ve literally told you something I believe in the last half an hour.


    If you stop pretending I’ve said things and read what I’ve said you’ll learn things.
    in the last half hour you only said you said you "don't" believe in western hegemony.

    say something you DO believe in, jordan
    Last edited by Lenin on 13:07:27 - 30/11/22
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    • Unlucky [2472585]
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    Posted on 13:08:44 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    Lenin [2199004]

    in the last half hour you only said you said you "don't" believe in western hegemony.

    say something you DO believe in, jordan
    Here you go noodle brains. 


    Link
    • Lenin [2199004]
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    Posted on 13:11:19 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    Unlucky [2472585]

    Here you go noodle brains.


    Link
    no pal. i mean an actual stance on something. not "condemnation", so worthless
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    • Unlucky [2472585]
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    Posted on 13:14:33 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    Lenin [2199004]

    no pal. i mean an actual stance on something. not "condemnation", so worthless
    My stance is clearly violence against peaceful protestors is wrong (something you appear to disagree on) 


    Stir up your noodles and you can work it out.

    Edit - Also I know you know my stance on the Ukraine war, as you were in that thread trying to pretend I said things I didn’t say as well.
    Last edited by Unlucky on 13:15:18 - 30/11/22
    • Lenin [2199004]
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    Posted on 13:20:00 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    Unlucky [2472585]

    My stance is clearly violence against peaceful protestors is wrong (something you appear to disagree on)


    Stir up your noodles and you can work it out.

    Edit - Also I know you know my stance on the Ukraine war, as you were in that thread trying to pretend I said things I didn’t say as well.
    lmao nope, you pulled the same shit in that thread too, pedantry, peterson-esque tropes, refusal to be pinned to any stance

    just "anti"

    name a "pro".
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    Posted on 13:33:12 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    China to punish internet users for ‘liking’ posts in crackdown after zero-Covid protests

    Junkies - Recruiting New and Established Torn Citizens. No Chain/War - Just Fly -

    Torn Exchange: Price List

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    Posted on 14:41:06 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    Student arrested for calling First Lady fat reminded me of this
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    Posted on 15:00:00 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    • Unlucky [2472585]
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    Posted on 15:01:41 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    Lenin [2199004]

    lmao nope, you pulled the same shit in that thread too, pedantry, peterson-esque tropes, refusal to be pinned to any stance

    just "anti"

    name a "pro".
    I’m pro not killing civilians and not torturing protestors. Is that not enough for you? 


    I’m pro Geneva convention and rules of war.


    I’m pro freedom of speech (the real one, not what RHCP thinks it is).


    I’m pro vaccine, I’m pro socialised medicine.


    I’m pro UBI and worker’s Co-OPs.


    What I’m anti is bad faith arguing. That’s why you think I’m anti you.
    • Lenin [2199004]
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    Posted on 15:04:53 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    loaded article that makes wild assumptions and wheels out western "china experts" to make leading claims.

    "crackdown after zero-covid protests", highly misleading. legislation is dated for the 16th, weeks before this shit, and totally unrelated.

    clickbait crock of shit.
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    • mrnoob2 [2770824]
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    Posted on 15:07:30 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    Lenin [2199004]

    lmao nope, you pulled the same shit in that thread too, pedantry, peterson-esque tropes, refusal to be pinned to any stance

    just "anti"

    name a "pro".

    Unlucky [2472585]

    I’m pro not killing civilians and not torturing protestors. Is that not enough for you?


    I’m pro Geneva convention and rules of war.


    I’m pro freedom of speech (the real one, not what RHCP thinks it is).


    I’m pro vaccine, I’m pro socialised medicine.


    I’m pro UBI and worker’s Co-OPs.


    What I’m anti is bad faith arguing. That’s why you think I’m anti you.
    What would you call the ideology described by these positions? 

    Genuinely curious about this, not trying to snark.
    • Unlucky [2472585]
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    Posted on 15:11:46 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    mrnoob2 [2770824]

    What would you call the ideology described by these positions?

    Genuinely curious about this, not trying to snark.
    Dunno. Like I said to one of you (sorry don’t remember which) I don’t ascribe myself an ideology. I believe what I believe. 


    Unlucky-ism maybe?
    • mrnoob2 [2770824]
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    Posted on 15:14:45 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    mrnoob2 [2770824]

    What would you call the ideology described by these positions?

    Genuinely curious about this, not trying to snark.

    Unlucky [2472585]

    Dunno. Like I said to one of you (sorry don’t remember which) I don’t ascribe myself an ideology. I believe what I believe.


    Unlucky-ism maybe?
    Hm, fair enough. It's very similar to a set of beliefs I passed through on the way to my current position, and one I see fairly often with people online to tend to self describe as market or libertarian socialists. I was curious as to whether you consider yourself a socialist I suppose, with further questions forthcoming about your views on Marx, Engels and Lenin (the historical one).
    • Lenin [2199004]
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    Posted on 15:27:14 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    Unlucky [2472585]

    I’m pro not killing civilians and not torturing protestors. Is that not enough for you?


    I’m pro Geneva convention and rules of war.


    I’m pro freedom of speech (the real one, not what RHCP thinks it is).


    I’m pro vaccine, I’m pro socialised medicine.


    I’m pro UBI and worker’s Co-OPs.


    What I’m anti is bad faith arguing. That’s why you think I’m anti you.
    f**k sakes i edited this post instead of posting a new one.
    Last edited by Lenin on 15:34:54 - 30/11/22
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    • Unlucky [2472585]
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    Posted on 15:28:10 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    mrnoob2 [2770824]

    What would you call the ideology described by these positions?

    Genuinely curious about this, not trying to snark.

    Unlucky [2472585]

    Dunno. Like I said to one of you (sorry don’t remember which) I don’t ascribe myself an ideology. I believe what I believe.


    Unlucky-ism maybe?

    mrnoob2 [2770824]

    Hm, fair enough. It's very similar to a set of beliefs I passed through on the way to my current position, and one I see fairly often with people online to tend to self describe as market or libertarian socialists. I was curious as to whether you consider yourself a socialist I suppose, with further questions forthcoming about your views on Marx, Engels and Lenin (the historical one).
    Market socialist is probably closest. However I’m sure I hold enough beliefs to get myself kicked out of that camp quickly. 


    Don’t know much at all about Engels and Lenin. I’ve read of the works of Marx, not read the capital for the same reason I’ve not finished the Silmarillion. However I agree with the basic premise that there will always be animosity between the workers and the owner over the value of labour. However I think this ignores the risk involved in owning capital, the the company folds the worker can get another job, however the owner is down.


    Probably why I think worker Co-Ops are the way forward.
    Last edited by Unlucky on 15:28:42 - 30/11/22
    • Unlucky [2472585]
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    Posted on 15:34:16 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    Unlucky [2472585]

    I’m pro not killing civilians and not torturing protestors. Is that not enough for you?


    I’m pro Geneva convention and rules of war.


    I’m pro freedom of speech (the real one, not what RHCP thinks it is).


    I’m pro vaccine, I’m pro socialised medicine.


    I’m pro UBI and worker’s Co-OPs.


    What I’m anti is bad faith arguing. That’s why you think I’m anti you.

    Lenin [2199004]

    f**k sakes i edited this post instead of posting a new one.
    alright, first you claimed the police were brutalizing these folks,


    We’ve started another round of things I didn’t say.


    rules of war, okay? lol. "i support the geneva conventions", ground breaking. really sucks for all the vocal enemies of the geneva conventions here on torn dot com

    Literally got told on torn that the Rules of war and the Geneva convention shouldn’t be taken seriously on torn.com (hence why I said it)

    free speech? as in, no limits? what about hate? criminal activity? misinformation?


    I already said not the free speech that RCHP believes in.


    you can claim i'm arguing in bad faith but you straight up started it here with your claim that china came up with the zero-covid policy as a gotcha versus the west's ambivalent response,
    Another thing I didn’t say.


    you never argue "in good faith", you always seek the first opportunity to obfuscate your views and attack semantics

    Nah, your problem with me is I don’t argue against strawman. What would be the point? I don’t hold those beliefs why would I argue for them?
    However that doesn’t work for you, because your go to move is a strawman arguement. That’s why you get so stressed.
    • Lenin [2199004]
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    Posted on 15:46:27 - 30/11/22 (2 months ago)
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    Unlucky [2472585]

    alright, first you claimed the police were brutalizing these folks,


    We’ve started another round of things I didn’t say.


    rules of war, okay? lol. "i support the geneva conventions", ground breaking. really sucks for all the vocal enemies of the geneva conventions here on torn dot com

    Literally got told on torn that the Rules of war and the Geneva convention shouldn’t be taken seriously on torn.com (hence why I said it)

    free speech? as in, no limits? what about hate? criminal activity? misinformation?


    I already said not the free speech that RCHP believes in.


    you can claim i'm arguing in bad faith but you straight up started it here with your claim that china came up with the zero-covid policy as a gotcha versus the west's ambivalent response,
    Another thing I didn’t say.


    you never argue "in good faith", you always seek the first opportunity to obfuscate your views and attack semantics

    Nah, your problem with me is I don’t argue against strawman. What would be the point? I don’t hold those beliefs why would I argue for them?
    However that doesn’t work for you, because your go to move is a strawman arguement. That’s why you get so stressed.
    "brutality"
    I condemn the violence done against both the Chinese and the French protestors.
    what actual "violence"?

    "rules of war"
    'shouldn't be taken seriously', i don't think that's how it was meant. taken with a grain of salt, hoped for but not expected, is how i'd view it. as i said before, name a government that engages in war that follows that shit to the letter, i'd love to hear about it.

    "free speech"
    i assumed by "free speech that RHCP believes in" you meant extending to private business. i mean from the government. so, yes to limiting those things?

    "china's zero covid"
    The CCP invested a lot of political capital into Zero COVID at the start of the pandemic. They pointed to western countries trying to ease lockdowns early and said to their people “this is why the west is bad they care more for money that people” and then came up with their Zero COVID policy.
    the f**k is this then?

    no response to whether or not you support your governemnt involving itself in other nation's affairs. noted
    Last edited by Lenin on 15:57:07 - 30/11/22
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    • Lenin [2199004]
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    Posted on 15:53:05 - 30/11/22 (1 month ago)
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    mrnoob2 [2770824]

    What would you call the ideology described by these positions?

    Genuinely curious about this, not trying to snark.
    with support of ubi, i'd say liberal socdem at best. not a real solution nor even a healthy bandaid; it absolves corporations of their responsibilities to their workers

    walmart workers on welfare is a subsidy for walmart
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    • mrnoob2 [2770824]
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    Posted on 16:19:07 - 30/11/22 (1 month ago)
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    mrnoob2 [2770824]

    What would you call the ideology described by these positions?

    Genuinely curious about this, not trying to snark.

    Unlucky [2472585]

    Dunno. Like I said to one of you (sorry don’t remember which) I don’t ascribe myself an ideology. I believe what I believe.


    Unlucky-ism maybe?

    mrnoob2 [2770824]

    Hm, fair enough. It's very similar to a set of beliefs I passed through on the way to my current position, and one I see fairly often with people online to tend to self describe as market or libertarian socialists. I was curious as to whether you consider yourself a socialist I suppose, with further questions forthcoming about your views on Marx, Engels and Lenin (the historical one).

    Unlucky [2472585]

    Market socialist is probably closest. However I’m sure I hold enough beliefs to get myself kicked out of that camp quickly.


    Don’t know much at all about Engels and Lenin. I’ve read of the works of Marx, not read the capital for the same reason I’ve not finished the Silmarillion. However I agree with the basic premise that there will always be animosity between the workers and the owner over the value of labour. However I think this ignores the risk involved in owning capital, the the company folds the worker can get another job, however the owner is down.


    Probably why I think worker Co-Ops are the way forward.
    Okay - that's not quite the root of class conflict, but fair enough if you haven't read Marx. 

    Worker coops exist now - so do you think non-coop business structures should be banned? If so, how do you think that could be achieved and if not, what difference is there between worker coops as the way forward, and how they exist at the moment?
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