Vaccines alone won't stop the Pandemic | Politics & Law |…
Vaccines alone won't stop the Pandemic
  •   Hoch [1772040]Hoch [1772040]
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    Thread created on 16:58:14 - 26/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Last replied 18:49:19 - 03/09/21 (1 month ago)
    Israeli Situ

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  •   Hoch [1772040]Hoch [1772040]
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    Posted on 16:58:36 - 26/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Reserved for N95 Mask Ads

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  • TWI Limpd [789073]Limpd [789073]
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    Posted on 17:06:18 - 26/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Its those damn right wingers that won't get vaccinated is the problem

    Triumph is an inevitable source of greatness

    For all things to exist they must collide

    Procrastination is not determination

  •   Hoch [1772040]Hoch [1772040]
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    Posted on 17:31:30 - 26/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Funny as it states in the article of the 514 hospitalized Israelis, 59% of them have been fully vaccinated.

    Fistyboy and Champion downvoted this thread. Hahaha bring it on chumps

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  • NOOB AineMari [2117276]AineMari [2117276]
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    Posted on 19:23:24 - 26/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    ATfd7Hz.png

  • CR -El- [463504]-El- [463504]
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    Posted on 19:38:16 - 26/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Limpd [789073]

    Its those damn right wingers that won't get vaccinated is the problem
    You said it, not me.
  • NS Capgros [2088627]Capgros [2088627]
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    Posted on 19:47:56 - 26/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated

    "From this type of result in various places, I have seen tweets suggesting vaccines don't work or have lost their effectiveness vs. severe disease, and I have seen other articles quote this type of figure as further evidence for the reduction of effectiveness of the vaccines in trying to justify 3rd shot boosters.


    However, while these numbers are true, to quote them as evidence for low vaccine effectiveness is wrong and misleading. Sometimes, with observational data there is confounding of multiple factors that can make it easy to misinterpret simple percentages like this, and the current vaccination situation in Israel brings a perfect storm of confounding factors that lead to confusion if not thought through carefully.



    After accounting for the vaccination rates and stratifying by age groups, from these same data we can see that the vaccines retain high effectiveness (85-95%) vs. severe disease, showing that when it comes to preventing severe disease, the Pfizer vaccine is still performing very well vs. Delta, even in Israel from whence the most concerning data have arisen.


    In conclusion, as long as there is a major age disparity in vaccination rates, with older individuals being more highly vaccinated, then the fact that older people have an inherently higher risk of hospitalization when infected with a respiratory virus means that it is always important to stratify results by age; if not the overall effectiveness will be biased downwards and a poor representation of how well the vaccine is working in preventing serious disease (the same holds for effectiveness vs. death).Even more fundamentally, it is important to use infection and disease rates (per 100k, e.g.) and not raw counts to compare unvaccinated and vaccinated groups to adjust for the proportion vaccinated.

    Use of raw counts exaggerates the vaccine effectiveness when vaccinated proportion is low and attenuates the vaccine effectiveness when, like in Israel, vaccines proportions are high. This is not just an issue of making vaccines look worse than they are ... any summary computing "proportion of hospitalized that are unvaccinated" that covers a period of time in which the proportion vaccinated was low can be similarly misleading, especially if there was a massive Covid-19 surge during that time periods. For example, computing total proportion of hospitalized covid infections in the USA from unvaccinated individuals while aggregating over the entire 2021 (January to present), a time periods that includes the early months in which virtually all USA residents were unvaccinated and there was a massive winter surge, will be similarly misleading. Thus, these artifacts can be used by some to make the vaccines look better
    than they in fact are, e.g. any report suggesting things like 99.9% of hospitalizations are from unvaccinated when covering a long period of time like this.


    The bottom line is there is very strong evidence that the vaccines have high effectiveness protecting against severe disease, even for Delta, and even in these Israeli data that on the surface appear to suggest the Pfizer vaccine might have waning effectiveness. This is clearly evident if the data are analyzed carefully, and agrees with all other published results to date from other countries.
    Last edited by Capgros on 19:50:27 - 26/08/21
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    Posted on 19:59:58 - 26/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Vaccines aren’t meant to stop the pandemic, they are meant to allow us to live normal lifes again.
  • TWI Limpd [789073]Limpd [789073]
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    Posted on 01:07:54 - 27/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Limpd [789073]

    Its those damn right wingers that won't get vaccinated is the problem

    -El- [463504]

    You said it, not me.
    Hook line and sinker guess what the black population is the most unlikely to be vaccinated due to previous concerns and we know black people vote 92%+black women 95+%democrat 
    so there spreading lies that it's right wingers when a certain demographic is more unlikely to be vaxxed.

    Not that I care there trying the blame game like humanity hasn't had our share or sickness in the past
    Last edited by Limpd on 01:08:47 - 27/08/21

    Triumph is an inevitable source of greatness

    For all things to exist they must collide

    Procrastination is not determination

  • CR -El- [463504]-El- [463504]
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    Posted on 01:30:41 - 27/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Limpd [789073]

    Its those damn right wingers that won't get vaccinated is the problem

    -El- [463504]

    You said it, not me.

    Limpd [789073]

    Hook line and sinker guess what the black population is the most unlikely to be vaccinated due to previous concerns and we know black people vote 92%+black women 95+%democrat
    so there spreading lies that it's right wingers when a certain demographic is more unlikely to be vaxxed.

    Not that I care there trying the blame game like humanity hasn't had our share or sickness in the past
    We trust the government as much as we trust you.

    There. I said it.

    Here's the difference, again, between us & you: we don't typically go around throwing hissy fits about wearing masks in public or saying complete dumb shit like "you're violating my freedoms".

    That's you guys. And we laugh at that entitlement.

    And each and EVERY time you guys do something really f**kin' stupid, you turn your attention to us...to take the heat off so you don't look like shit. You don't want to wear masks, or get the vax. And then you swear up and down that you're special...and not given a f**k about who could catch it from you if you were exposed. I just can't f**k with that mentality. Hell, in quarantine most conservative whites were losing their shit...so I know you couldn't survive the hood, jim crow, or the f**k shit we stress over daily.

    I know you couldn't.

    And yes, I have both shots. Oldest son got both. Youngest son tomorrow. We're susceptible because we're asthmatic.
  • JFK™ Collete [1389080]Collete [1389080]
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    Posted on 01:51:29 - 27/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    The virus as we all know  keeps mutating and they will have to  adapt the vaccines or create new ones by the look of things to come we will need booster shots for years unless a breakthrough happens.
    Last edited by Collete on 09:33:28 - 27/08/21

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  • MMCP WiseTheRumGone [2078276]WiseTheRumGone [2078276]
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    Posted on 06:06:27 - 27/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Collete [1389080]

    The virus as we all know keeps mutating and they will have to adapt the vaccines or create new ones by the look of things to come we will need booster shots for years unless a breakthrough happens.
    the reason covid is super bad is cuz we had no immunity against it, thats why its called a novel virus.

    it sucks that anti vaxxers and a lack of global self quarantine got us here, but its going to be an endemic virus now

    "Refusing to help a neighbor who's house burned down is shitty. Refusing when you helped start the fire is monstrous."

  • TWI Limpd [789073]Limpd [789073]
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    Posted on 11:40:49 - 27/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Limpd [789073]

    Its those damn right wingers that won't get vaccinated is the problem

    -El- [463504]

    You said it, not me.

    Limpd [789073]

    Hook line and sinker guess what the black population is the most unlikely to be vaccinated due to previous concerns and we know black people vote 92%+black women 95+%democrat
    so there spreading lies that it's right wingers when a certain demographic is more unlikely to be vaxxed.

    Not that I care there trying the blame game like humanity hasn't had our share or sickness in the past

    -El- [463504]

    We trust the government as much as we trust you.

    There. I said it.

    Here's the difference, again, between us & you: we don't typically go around throwing hissy fits about wearing masks in public or saying complete dumb shit like "you're violating my freedoms".

    That's you guys. And we laugh at that entitlement.

    And each and EVERY time you guys do something really f**kin' stupid, you turn your attention to us...to take the heat off so you don't look like shit. You don't want to wear masks, or get the vax. And then you swear up and down that you're special...and not given a f**k about who could catch it from you if you were exposed. I just can't f**k with that mentality. Hell, in quarantine most conservative whites were losing their shit...so I know you couldn't survive the hood, jim crow, or the f**k shit we stress over daily.

    I know you couldn't.

    And yes, I have both shots. Oldest son got both. Youngest son tomorrow. We're susceptible because we're asthmatic.
    Have fun with your 3rd ,4th,etc booster the efficiency is lowering on how well it works

    Triumph is an inevitable source of greatness

    For all things to exist they must collide

    Procrastination is not determination

  • NS Capgros [2088627]Capgros [2088627]
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    Posted on 11:52:26 - 27/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Limpd [789073]

    Its those damn right wingers that won't get vaccinated is the problem

    -El- [463504]

    You said it, not me.

    Limpd [789073]

    Hook line and sinker guess what the black population is the most unlikely to be vaccinated due to previous concerns and we know black people vote 92%+black women 95+%democrat
    so there spreading lies that it's right wingers when a certain demographic is more unlikely to be vaxxed.

    Not that I care there trying the blame game like humanity hasn't had our share or sickness in the past

    -El- [463504]

    We trust the government as much as we trust you.

    There. I said it.

    Here's the difference, again, between us & you: we don't typically go around throwing hissy fits about wearing masks in public or saying complete dumb shit like "you're violating my freedoms".

    That's you guys. And we laugh at that entitlement.

    And each and EVERY time you guys do something really f**kin' stupid, you turn your attention to us...to take the heat off so you don't look like shit. You don't want to wear masks, or get the vax. And then you swear up and down that you're special...and not given a f**k about who could catch it from you if you were exposed. I just can't f**k with that mentality. Hell, in quarantine most conservative whites were losing their shit...so I know you couldn't survive the hood, jim crow, or the f**k shit we stress over daily.

    I know you couldn't.

    And yes, I have both shots. Oldest son got both. Youngest son tomorrow. We're susceptible because we're asthmatic.

    Limpd [789073]

    Have fun with your 3rd ,4th,etc booster the efficiency is lowering on how well it works
    If it keeps me and my family safe I will, just like  people take the flu vaccine every year because it can keep them from dying. I see no problem in that. diseases evolve, so should the vaccine.
  •   Hoch [1772040]Hoch [1772040]
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    Posted on 14:37:51 - 27/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Limpd [789073]

    Its those damn right wingers that won't get vaccinated is the problem

    -El- [463504]

    You said it, not me.

    Limpd [789073]

    Hook line and sinker guess what the black population is the most unlikely to be vaccinated due to previous concerns and we know black people vote 92%+black women 95+%democrat
    so there spreading lies that it's right wingers when a certain demographic is more unlikely to be vaxxed.

    Not that I care there trying the blame game like humanity hasn't had our share or sickness in the past

    -El- [463504]

    We trust the government as much as we trust you.

    There. I said it.

    Here's the difference, again, between us & you: we don't typically go around throwing hissy fits about wearing masks in public or saying complete dumb shit like "you're violating my freedoms".

    That's you guys. And we laugh at that entitlement.

    And each and EVERY time you guys do something really f**kin' stupid, you turn your attention to us...to take the heat off so you don't look like shit. You don't want to wear masks, or get the vax. And then you swear up and down that you're special...and not given a f**k about who could catch it from you if you were exposed. I just can't f**k with that mentality. Hell, in quarantine most conservative whites were losing their shit...so I know you couldn't survive the hood, jim crow, or the f**k shit we stress over daily.

    I know you couldn't.

    And yes, I have both shots. Oldest son got both. Youngest son tomorrow. We're susceptible because we're asthmatic.

    Limpd [789073]

    Have fun with your 3rd ,4th,etc booster the efficiency is lowering on how well it works

    Capgros [2088627]

    If it keeps me and my family safe I will, just like people take the flu vaccine every year because it can keep them from dying. I see no problem in that. diseases evolve, so should the vaccine.
    Do you get the flu vaccine annually?

    Image may contain: possible text that says 'I WOULD LIKE TO APOLOGIZE TO ANYONE I HAVE NOT YET OFFENDED PLEASE BE PATIENT WILL GET TO YOU SHORTLY'

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    Posted on 14:40:52 - 27/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Hoch [1772040]

    Do you get the flu vaccine annually?
    I do and I love it!
  • NS Capgros [2088627]Capgros [2088627]
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    Posted on 14:49:17 - 27/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    -El- [463504]

    You said it, not me.

    Limpd [789073]

    Hook line and sinker guess what the black population is the most unlikely to be vaccinated due to previous concerns and we know black people vote 92%+black women 95+%democrat
    so there spreading lies that it's right wingers when a certain demographic is more unlikely to be vaxxed.

    Not that I care there trying the blame game like humanity hasn't had our share or sickness in the past

    -El- [463504]

    We trust the government as much as we trust you.

    There. I said it.

    Here's the difference, again, between us & you: we don't typically go around throwing hissy fits about wearing masks in public or saying complete dumb shit like "you're violating my freedoms".

    That's you guys. And we laugh at that entitlement.

    And each and EVERY time you guys do something really f**kin' stupid, you turn your attention to us...to take the heat off so you don't look like shit. You don't want to wear masks, or get the vax. And then you swear up and down that you're special...and not given a f**k about who could catch it from you if you were exposed. I just can't f**k with that mentality. Hell, in quarantine most conservative whites were losing their shit...so I know you couldn't survive the hood, jim crow, or the f**k shit we stress over daily.

    I know you couldn't.

    And yes, I have both shots. Oldest son got both. Youngest son tomorrow. We're susceptible because we're asthmatic.

    Limpd [789073]

    Have fun with your 3rd ,4th,etc booster the efficiency is lowering on how well it works

    Capgros [2088627]

    If it keeps me and my family safe I will, just like people take the flu vaccine every year because it can keep them from dying. I see no problem in that. diseases evolve, so should the vaccine.

    Hoch [1772040]

    Do you get the flu vaccine annually?
    I don't since I'm not a big risk (yet), but if the doctor decides it might be best I will discuss it with her and probably start doing it.
  • LGC beeg [2603292]beeg [2603292]
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    Posted on 15:02:33 - 27/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Limpd [789073]

    Hook line and sinker guess what the black population is the most unlikely to be vaccinated due to previous concerns and we know black people vote 92%+black women 95+%democrat
    so there spreading lies that it's right wingers when a certain demographic is more unlikely to be vaxxed.

    Not that I care there trying the blame game like humanity hasn't had our share or sickness in the past

    -El- [463504]

    We trust the government as much as we trust you.

    There. I said it.

    Here's the difference, again, between us & you: we don't typically go around throwing hissy fits about wearing masks in public or saying complete dumb shit like "you're violating my freedoms".

    That's you guys. And we laugh at that entitlement.

    And each and EVERY time you guys do something really f**kin' stupid, you turn your attention to us...to take the heat off so you don't look like shit. You don't want to wear masks, or get the vax. And then you swear up and down that you're special...and not given a f**k about who could catch it from you if you were exposed. I just can't f**k with that mentality. Hell, in quarantine most conservative whites were losing their shit...so I know you couldn't survive the hood, jim crow, or the f**k shit we stress over daily.

    I know you couldn't.

    And yes, I have both shots. Oldest son got both. Youngest son tomorrow. We're susceptible because we're asthmatic.

    Limpd [789073]

    Have fun with your 3rd ,4th,etc booster the efficiency is lowering on how well it works

    Capgros [2088627]

    If it keeps me and my family safe I will, just like people take the flu vaccine every year because it can keep them from dying. I see no problem in that. diseases evolve, so should the vaccine.

    Hoch [1772040]

    Do you get the flu vaccine annually?

    Capgros [2088627]

    I don't since I'm not a big risk (yet), but if the doctor decides it might be best I will discuss it with her and probably start doing it.
    Why do you want me and my family to die of the flu?
  • CR -El- [463504]-El- [463504]
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    Posted on 16:37:52 - 27/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Limpd [789073]

    Its those damn right wingers that won't get vaccinated is the problem

    -El- [463504]

    You said it, not me.

    Limpd [789073]

    Hook line and sinker guess what the black population is the most unlikely to be vaccinated due to previous concerns and we know black people vote 92%+black women 95+%democrat
    so there spreading lies that it's right wingers when a certain demographic is more unlikely to be vaxxed.

    Not that I care there trying the blame game like humanity hasn't had our share or sickness in the past

    -El- [463504]

    We trust the government as much as we trust you.

    There. I said it.

    Here's the difference, again, between us & you: we don't typically go around throwing hissy fits about wearing masks in public or saying complete dumb shit like "you're violating my freedoms".

    That's you guys. And we laugh at that entitlement.

    And each and EVERY time you guys do something really f**kin' stupid, you turn your attention to us...to take the heat off so you don't look like shit. You don't want to wear masks, or get the vax. And then you swear up and down that you're special...and not given a f**k about who could catch it from you if you were exposed. I just can't f**k with that mentality. Hell, in quarantine most conservative whites were losing their shit...so I know you couldn't survive the hood, jim crow, or the f**k shit we stress over daily.

    I know you couldn't.

    And yes, I have both shots. Oldest son got both. Youngest son tomorrow. We're susceptible because we're asthmatic.

    Limpd [789073]

    Have fun with your 3rd ,4th,etc booster the efficiency is lowering on how well it works
    If it helps, we'll keep going back. 

    The next time I may have to get it a booster will be next April.

    I really don't see what the problem is, with you guys.
  • JFK™ CRLF [2095076]CRLF [2095076]
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    Posted on 16:43:44 - 27/08/21 (1 month ago)
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    Capgros [2088627]

    https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated

    "From this type of result in various places, I have seen tweets suggesting vaccines don't work or have lost their effectiveness vs. severe disease, and I have seen other articles quote this type of figure as further evidence for the reduction of effectiveness of the vaccines in trying to justify 3rd shot boosters.


    However, while these numbers are true, to quote them as evidence for low vaccine effectiveness is wrong and misleading. Sometimes, with observational data there is confounding of multiple factors that can make it easy to misinterpret simple percentages like this, and the current vaccination situation in Israel brings a perfect storm of confounding factors that lead to confusion if not thought through carefully.



    After accounting for the vaccination rates and stratifying by age groups, from these same data we can see that the vaccines retain high effectiveness (85-95%) vs. severe disease, showing that when it comes to preventing severe disease, the Pfizer vaccine is still performing very well vs. Delta, even in Israel from whence the most concerning data have arisen.


    In conclusion, as long as there is a major age disparity in vaccination rates, with older individuals being more highly vaccinated, then the fact that older people have an inherently higher risk of hospitalization when infected with a respiratory virus means that it is always important to stratify results by age; if not the overall effectiveness will be biased downwards and a poor representation of how well the vaccine is working in preventing serious disease (the same holds for effectiveness vs. death).Even more fundamentally, it is important to use infection and disease rates (per 100k, e.g.) and not raw counts to compare unvaccinated and vaccinated groups to adjust for the proportion vaccinated.

    Use of raw counts exaggerates the vaccine effectiveness when vaccinated proportion is low and attenuates the vaccine effectiveness when, like in Israel, vaccines proportions are high. This is not just an issue of making vaccines look worse than they are ... any summary computing "proportion of hospitalized that are unvaccinated" that covers a period of time in which the proportion vaccinated was low can be similarly misleading, especially if there was a massive Covid-19 surge during that time periods. For example, computing total proportion of hospitalized covid infections in the USA from unvaccinated individuals while aggregating over the entire 2021 (January to present), a time periods that includes the early months in which virtually all USA residents were unvaccinated and there was a massive winter surge, will be similarly misleading. Thus, these artifacts can be used by some to make the vaccines look better
    than they in fact are, e.g. any report suggesting things like 99.9% of hospitalizations are from unvaccinated when covering a long period of time like this.


    The bottom line is there is very strong evidence that the vaccines have high effectiveness protecting against severe disease, even for Delta, and even in these Israeli data that on the surface appear to suggest the Pfizer vaccine might have waning effectiveness. This is clearly evident if the data are analyzed carefully, and agrees with all other published results to date from other countries.
    TL;DR -- Vaccines are key, but not enough alone.

    More from NPR News: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why
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