RambleRocket [2200354]

ehhh i dunno..... white people in south africa are facing more discrimination and harm than black people in america.... so if white people in south america shouldnt be crying then black people in america should be crying far less right?

so im not sure that ones a very good argument from a humanitarian standpoint.
everyones human, everyone should be treated as a human wherever they are i wont even mention whatever skin colour they are because it doesnt need that divide as whatever skin colour you are you are still human. there is no difference between 1 human and the other.

although ideology is indeed a big difference and causes problems.... but ideological differences should be sorted by debate and co-operation... which is hard when alot of them, like religions, have conditioned their followers to be like brick walls to reasoning. which is like cult behaviour, we need to get rid of cult like ideologies to progress humanity. but then again, for all i know, perhaps my idea of that is cult like too? and thus maybe my views are also a problem? would we know if we are infected by cult like views or not? probably not, as thats how hard and brick walled they make people .... which then causes a problem as to identifying the cult like ideologies that shut down reasoning and co-operation.

Show post

Capgros [2088627]

ehhh i dunno..... white people in south Africa are facing more discrimination and harm than black people in america.... so if white people in south america shouldnt be crying then black people in America should be crying far less right?

eeeeeh sorry no, white people in south Africa are in general(not all) still pretty privileged so that makes the rest of your rant also pretty useless

RambleRocket [2200354]

ANYONE even the poorest of america is more privileged than ANYONE in africa though....

even the lowest of fancy western lifestyles are probably quite richer than any african lifestyle. dont see many people in africa that can lounge about sitting on their ass playing xbox all day do we? lol while alot of poor people in america can do that....

Capgros [2088627]

Do you really believe they still live in caves there or something? you obviously don't know a lot about South Africa

RambleRocket [2200354]

no.... but still their quality of life is certainly worse than americas.

americans are just too privileged to see their own privilege.
we can perhaps search quality of life stats for each country and compare maybe to try and find statistical comparisons of the 2 countries to sort which one has more opportunity and better quality of life? that will probably act as a good judge between us on this perhaps?

Capgros [2088627]

I'm pretty sure my sister had a better life there than a lot of people in the USA have, and with her many others, still in general they will be poorer yes. I also don't think that there are a lot of Americans sitting all day on their couch playing Xbox, but I don't have any statistics on that.

SporkMonkey [2065017]

What a complex topic... I would consider myself a Conservative Constitutionalist, leaning libertarian. Maybe the same? Words seem to have different meaning to different people.

Taxes - Generally speaking, taxes are theft. Americans see very little in return for the taxes they are forced to give. Most of the money collected by the government is wasted. The media lies about the rich not paying enough when, in reality, 50% of people pay no taxes and those making above $100k are paying most of the taxes. I would love to see a national sales tax. You pay a fixed amount on everything you buy (except food). Let's say 25% for ease of the conversation. The number could be lower, it's not the point. Buy a new car? 25%. Buy a new private jet? 25%. Buy a home appliance? 25%. Point being, the more you spend and higher the price tag (the rich) the more you pay in taxes. EVERYONE pays something, though. It would probably make the tax code 3 pages long.

Free market capitalist, not to be confused with the crony capitalism we currently see.

Strong supporter of the 1st Amendment and the Right to PEACEFULLY assemble and the Right to free speech, which is usually offensive speech.

I am a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment. How strong? I believe I should be able to buy and drive a tank if I have the money for it. I believe 2A lobbyists like the NRA have failed. They should be in Chicago defending people that get hit with felony possession for having a gun they should be legally allowed to own, but don't because they are black.

Our justice system needs to be reformed. People are being held in for profit prisons for stupid stuff, like possession of weed.

Our education system needs to be changed. We have used the same system for 150 years with little change. Classes now look the same as they did generations ago. There is a reason STEM charters produce better educated kids than most public schools.

The US needs to stop being the world police, but there are times when evil deserves to die. That's a fine line, but as the past 20 years have shown, there is little point to being in Afghanistan.

Heathcare needs to be reformed. I am not for government funded healthcare, as our country cannot afford it. I would love to see drug prices come way down and insurance companies be allowed to write policies nation wide. You'd see commercials on TV for Geiko heath insurance saying to can save 15% in 15 minutes. Competition lowers prices.

The war on drugs failed. Stop. Make weed legal, start addressing the mental health issue for people that abuse the harder stuff.

Mental health is ignored in the US. I do not have an answer for this, but we, as a society, should stop ignoring it and blaming everything else for violent outbursts.

I am pro-legal immigration. I have a strong history of immigration in this generation of my family. Right now, there is more money to be made in human trafficking from Mexico than in drugs. The pathway to citizenship should be clear, but at the same time there should be some expectation of being able to transition into American society. Learn functional English. Having said that, America is one of the only countries where learning a functional second language isn't the norm. Being in Texas, learning functional Spanish should be expected.

I am not going to debate my stances. I am happy to entertain questions, but the second someone starts to tell me I am wrong and why, I will be happy to tell that person to f**k off. That's not the point of the thread.

ZickyJackz [497258]

Boner for him? Nah, not exactly. I just think he is what billionaires should be. People who use their vast wealth and fame to help humanity. Even if it isn't "enough" help for some, its leagues better than what most rich f**ks do. You don't seem wall street or hedge fund f**kers doing jack shit to help people.

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Capgros [2088627]

Do you even know where his wealth comes from?, white, rich South African parents...well....

ZickyJackz [497258]

Does that even matter? Your claim was that he "invented nothing".

Again, He is filthy rich, yes. But he has done some good for humanity.

And what does it matter that his parents are "white"? Would it somehow be better if they were Arabian? Or Asian?

Capgros [2088627]

Well, it kind of shows white privilege, not that you can blame Musk for it, but wealthy people are not always wealthy because they are better than others.

White from South Africa, while owning an emerald mine says something (although musk denies this), I just don't believe in the hype around rich people, but maybe you are right and my comment was a bit too harsh, on the other hand, many reports from his factories have come that he is kind of a racist dickhead towards black people, but yeah, without hard evidence that's hard to say.

Menial Tasks, Slurs and Swastikas: Many Black Workers at Tesla Say They Faced Racism

MrSeraph [2270413]

Most White, South Africans who left (Elon Musk has talked about why he left, and why he would never go back) South Africa are racist towards black South Africans.

And for good reason, there's been growing tensions and a series of militants in South Africa hellbent on forcibly removing the white man from South Africa - People who blame the countries problems on the white man.

When you lived in a country where neighbouring farmers or individuals would be murdered in coldblood in their fenced off communities, you grow a deeply rooted mistrust towards the group that perpetrated the crime.

I'm not a huge fan of Elon Musk - But I dig the stuff he's been working towards such as: Re-igniting the space-race in America, helping fast track the electric car industry into efficient more weather resistant electric vehicles (Just 5 years ago electric vehicles were a firm no in colder parts in Canada, Tesla has managed to keep their batteries fully functional in up to -50c), sparking a significant push into renewables and solar energy.

But there's also a few quack ideas he's had: Hyperloop - Sorry but this is straight Sci-Fi and unpractical and comes with significant safety concerns, his projected cost/launch of his reusable rockets (So far it's actually cheaper to manufacture new rockets than refit their reusable designs, but I believe in the long run they'll be able to bring that cost per launch down significantly - Assuming we can either make more fuel efficient rockets (unlikely, but am not a physicist), or find an alternative fuel (I think we'd have to look to Sci-Fi movies/books in regards to this one)

Capgros [2088627]

You couldn't make shit up, the white genocide theory......You forgot that the white man were the invading force in South Africa and took all their richness, not that every white man is guilty, surely not, but they are not massively being killed or anything like that and you can understand that over a century of keeping indigenous people poor and second hand citizens is not really constructive, actually the representation of the black people has been very mild regarding what happened after the apartheid ended. You forget that black people were massively murdered for decades.

"In one of the most devastating aspects of apartheid, the government forcibly removed black South Africans from rural areas designated as “white” to the homelands and sold their land at low prices to white farmers. From 1961 to 1994, more than 3.5 million people were forcibly removed from their homes and deposited in the Bantustans, where they were plunged into poverty and hopelessness"

White people in South Africa shouldn't be the ones crying.

Capgros [2088627]

Yeah I think so, a lot of these companies don't have to research new things to make a profit, they will squeeze as much as possible out of the old ways before investing in something that might not even be a success. that's why government funded research in all sectors is by far the biggest help in moving forward.

Lifecheese [2486313]

Right, but the people who benefit under the corrupt system now are not going to suddenly accept defeat and go home. If the same government that they loot and manipulate now suddenly has additional trillions up for grabs, they're going to grab it just as they always have. So government-funded solution is only practical once we have created a system that lacks the waste and injustice created by our massive glut of foolish laws. If our healthcare becomes government funded, it is likely to get more expensive, not less. We have to fix the endemic problems before a public option is even viable.

Capgros [2088627]

"If our healthcare becomes government funded, it is likely to get more expensive"

Worldwide statistics disagree, for instance, here in Spain we are much poorer, but healthcare is much more available and we pay less per person. Maybe some ultra rich person has to go to the US for a special ultra new kind of treatment, but the average Joe is far better off here in terms of healthcare.

for the rest, without the government you wouldn't be able to use your computer or the internet because it simply wouldn't exist, this was the result of government funded research that broaden our understanding of how thing work in general, the private sector just took something that already existed and turned it into a consumer product, but nothing fundamental new was made by this sector.

Capgros [2088627]

Yeah I think so, a lot of these companies don't have to research new things to make a profit, they will squeeze as much as possible out of the old ways before investing in something that might not even be a success. that's why government funded research in all sectors is by far the biggest help in moving forward.

Lifecheese [2486313]

Right, but the people who benefit under the corrupt system now are not going to suddenly accept defeat and go home. If the same government that they loot and manipulate now suddenly has additional trillions up for grabs, they're going to grab it just as they always have. So government-funded solution is only practical once we have created a system that lacks the waste and injustice created by our massive glut of foolish laws. If our healthcare becomes government funded, it is likely to get more expensive, not less. We have to fix the endemic problems before a public option is even viable.

Capgros [2088627]

"If our healthcare becomes government funded, it is likely to get more expensive"

Worldwide statistics disagree, for instance, here in Spain we are much poorer, but healthcare is much more available and we pay less per person. Maybe some ultra rich person has to go to the US for a special ultra new kind of treatment, but the average Joe is far better off here in terms of healthcare.

for the rest, without the government you wouldn't be able to use your computer or the internet because it simply wouldn't exist, this was the result of government funded research that broaden our understanding of how thing work in general, the private sector just took something that already existed and turned it into a consumer product, but nothing fundamental new was made by this sector.

LollipopJackson [2670493]

Not true.

The computer was actually invented in private capacity and then the computer technology was revolutionised by IBM, who was a completely private company at the time. The reason they did it? Capitalism.

SaintLuke [2220265]

flipping burgers is now considered an essential job?

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

you can replace those 2 words with stock clerk if you disagree

SaintLuke [2220265]

you could indeed replace them 2 words...but my reply will still be pretty much the same. Only thing i would change is the fact a monkey can put shit on a shelf. So it does not really help your argument of them deserving $20/h or whatever it is folks are wanting now.

MrSeraph [2270413]

I'd also argue from a business owners perspective for $20/hr to stock shelves I'd still rather invest in a multi million dollar automation project.

I'd rather displace more workers than pay a handful of employees an outrageous $20/hr to stock shelves, and pay 2-3 people $40/hr to maintain the automated systems.

If I have a choice between hiring 20 employees for $20/hr - Or the option to replace those 20 employees with 2-3 people for $40/hr, I'd rather take less employees. But that's because there's A LOT more paperwork involved with 20 employees than there is for 3.

SaintLuke [2220265]

flipping burgers is now considered an essential job?

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

you can replace those 2 words with stock clerk if you disagree

SaintLuke [2220265]

you could indeed replace them 2 words...but my reply will still be pretty much the same. Only thing i would change is the fact a monkey can put shit on a shelf. So it does not really help your argument of them deserving $20/h or whatever it is folks are wanting now.

MrSeraph [2270413]

I'd also argue from a business owners perspective for $20/hr to stock shelves I'd still rather invest in a multi million dollar automation project.

I'd rather displace more workers than pay a handful of employees an outrageous $20/hr to stock shelves, and pay 2-3 people $40/hr to maintain the automated systems.

If I have a choice between hiring 20 employees for $20/hr - Or the option to replace those 20 employees with 2-3 people for $40/hr, I'd rather take less employees. But that's because there's A LOT more paperwork involved with 20 employees than there is for 3.

SaintLuke [2220265]

I wish folks could understand this very simple concept...but it does not seem likely. Demand outrageous pay for the simplest jobs...them jobs will no longer be available.

RambleRocket [2200354]

could be less competition in denmark. where as in america youd have like fast food chain after fast food chain burger joints besides burger joints.... where as in denmark you might have 1 burger place per 100 miles maybe lol or 1 burger place per city and cities being spread out a bit. and so with less each place gets more custom than the american ones.... too much saturated market in america, too much competition and everyone wanting a share of the same limited pie.

RambleRocket [2200354]

could be less competition in denmark. where as in america youd have like fast food chain after fast food chain burger joints besides burger joints.... where as in denmark you might have 1 burger place per 100 miles maybe lol or 1 burger place per city and cities being spread out a bit. and so with less each place gets more custom than the american ones.... too much saturated market in america, too much competition and everyone wanting a share of the same limited pie.

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

there's more competition in Denmark. pizza chains basically can't exist because there are too many food places that offer things cheaper and better.

before saying dumb shit like "you might have 1 burger place per 100 miles maybe lol or 1 burger place per city" you should try and do some research

RambleRocket [2200354]

could be less competition in denmark. where as in america youd have like fast food chain after fast food chain burger joints besides burger joints.... where as in denmark you might have 1 burger place per 100 miles maybe lol or 1 burger place per city and cities being spread out a bit. and so with less each place gets more custom than the american ones.... too much saturated market in america, too much competition and everyone wanting a share of the same limited pie.

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

there's more competition in Denmark. pizza chains basically can't exist because there are too many food places that offer things cheaper and better.

before saying dumb shit like "you might have 1 burger place per 100 miles maybe lol or 1 burger place per city" you should try and do some research

RambleRocket [2200354]

and before you call it dumb perhaps you should check my wording and see "might" and guess what "might" makes the sentence like. does "might" make it a absolute and saying "this is what it is like 100%"? ... or does "might" imply the lack of knowledge in itself and give away that it is a... i dunno the word at the moment a "maybe" type of guess or a questioning "if" type of wording.

RambleRocket [2200354]

could be less competition in denmark. where as in america youd have like fast food chain after fast food chain burger joints besides burger joints.... where as in denmark you might have 1 burger place per 100 miles maybe lol or 1 burger place per city and cities being spread out a bit. and so with less each place gets more custom than the american ones.... too much saturated market in america, too much competition and everyone wanting a share of the same limited pie.

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

there's more competition in Denmark. pizza chains basically can't exist because there are too many food places that offer things cheaper and better.

before saying dumb shit like "you might have 1 burger place per 100 miles maybe lol or 1 burger place per city" you should try and do some research

RambleRocket [2200354]

and before you call it dumb perhaps you should check my wording and see "might" and guess what "might" makes the sentence like. does "might" make it a absolute and saying "this is what it is like 100%"? ... or does "might" imply the lack of knowledge in itself and give away that it is a... i dunno the word at the moment a "maybe" type of guess or a questioning "if" type of wording.

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

I still call it dumb. It's an extremely dumb rebuttal and you should concede your position on the minimum wage right now if you had any intellectual integrity.

SaintLuke [2220265]

flipping burgers is now considered an essential job?

Show post

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

you can replace those 2 words with stock clerk if you disagree

SaintLuke [2220265]

you could indeed replace them 2 words...but my reply will still be pretty much the same. Only thing i would change is the fact a monkey can put shit on a shelf. So it does not really help your argument of them deserving $20/h or whatever it is folks are wanting now.

MrSeraph [2270413]

I'd also argue from a business owners perspective for $20/hr to stock shelves I'd still rather invest in a multi million dollar automation project.

I'd rather displace more workers than pay a handful of employees an outrageous $20/hr to stock shelves, and pay 2-3 people $40/hr to maintain the automated systems.

If I have a choice between hiring 20 employees for $20/hr - Or the option to replace those 20 employees with 2-3 people for $40/hr, I'd rather take less employees. But that's because there's A LOT more paperwork involved with 20 employees than there is for 3.

SaintLuke [2220265]

I wish folks could understand this very simple concept...but it does not seem likely. Demand outrageous pay for the simplest jobs...them jobs will no longer be available.

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

care to tell me why burger flippers and stock clerks in Denmark earn 25 an hour and business still profits?


here's a hint, they produce WAY MORE VALUE THAN YOU THINK

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

you can replace those 2 words with stock clerk if you disagree

Show post

SaintLuke [2220265]

you could indeed replace them 2 words...but my reply will still be pretty much the same. Only thing i would change is the fact a monkey can put shit on a shelf. So it does not really help your argument of them deserving $20/h or whatever it is folks are wanting now.

MrSeraph [2270413]

I'd also argue from a business owners perspective for $20/hr to stock shelves I'd still rather invest in a multi million dollar automation project.

I'd rather displace more workers than pay a handful of employees an outrageous $20/hr to stock shelves, and pay 2-3 people $40/hr to maintain the automated systems.

If I have a choice between hiring 20 employees for $20/hr - Or the option to replace those 20 employees with 2-3 people for $40/hr, I'd rather take less employees. But that's because there's A LOT more paperwork involved with 20 employees than there is for 3.

SaintLuke [2220265]

I wish folks could understand this very simple concept...but it does not seem likely. Demand outrageous pay for the simplest jobs...them jobs will no longer be available.

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

care to tell me why burger flippers and stock clerks in Denmark earn 25 an hour and business still profits?


here's a hint, they produce WAY MORE VALUE THAN YOU THINK

SaintLuke [2220265]

No, a monkey can do the job...in America we have a tendency to invent automation for a simple job when folks want to be paid a stupid amount of money to do it. So if idiots like yourself want to try and push this outrageous pay for a stupid simple job that is not really needed....they will make the job automated. Then there will be no pay for the younger folks trying to get job experience.

SaintLuke [2220265]

you could indeed replace them 2 words...but my reply will still be pretty much the same. Only thing i would change is the fact a monkey can put shit on a shelf. So it does not really help your argument of them deserving $20/h or whatever it is folks are wanting now.

Show post

MrSeraph [2270413]

I'd also argue from a business owners perspective for $20/hr to stock shelves I'd still rather invest in a multi million dollar automation project.

I'd rather displace more workers than pay a handful of employees an outrageous $20/hr to stock shelves, and pay 2-3 people $40/hr to maintain the automated systems.

If I have a choice between hiring 20 employees for $20/hr - Or the option to replace those 20 employees with 2-3 people for $40/hr, I'd rather take less employees. But that's because there's A LOT more paperwork involved with 20 employees than there is for 3.

SaintLuke [2220265]

I wish folks could understand this very simple concept...but it does not seem likely. Demand outrageous pay for the simplest jobs...them jobs will no longer be available.

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

care to tell me why burger flippers and stock clerks in Denmark earn 25 an hour and business still profits?


here's a hint, they produce WAY MORE VALUE THAN YOU THINK

SaintLuke [2220265]

No, a monkey can do the job...in America we have a tendency to invent automation for a simple job when folks want to be paid a stupid amount of money to do it. So if idiots like yourself want to try and push this outrageous pay for a stupid simple job that is not really needed....they will make the job automated. Then there will be no pay for the younger folks trying to get job experience.

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

what? dafuq do you mean people below 18 don't get paid that wage lol what.

MrSeraph [2270413]

I'd also argue from a business owners perspective for $20/hr to stock shelves I'd still rather invest in a multi million dollar automation project.

I'd rather displace more workers than pay a handful of employees an outrageous $20/hr to stock shelves, and pay 2-3 people $40/hr to maintain the automated systems.

If I have a choice between hiring 20 employees for $20/hr - Or the option to replace those 20 employees with 2-3 people for $40/hr, I'd rather take less employees. But that's because there's A LOT more paperwork involved with 20 employees than there is for 3.

Show post

SaintLuke [2220265]

I wish folks could understand this very simple concept...but it does not seem likely. Demand outrageous pay for the simplest jobs...them jobs will no longer be available.

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

care to tell me why burger flippers and stock clerks in Denmark earn 25 an hour and business still profits?


here's a hint, they produce WAY MORE VALUE THAN YOU THINK

SaintLuke [2220265]

No, a monkey can do the job...in America we have a tendency to invent automation for a simple job when folks want to be paid a stupid amount of money to do it. So if idiots like yourself want to try and push this outrageous pay for a stupid simple job that is not really needed....they will make the job automated. Then there will be no pay for the younger folks trying to get job experience.

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

what? dafuq do you mean people below 18 don't get paid that wage lol what.

SaintLuke [2220265]

you raise min. wage to something stupid, the monkey jobs go away. The monkey jobs go away, younger folks wont get the work experience they need. Not sure how i can make it any simpler for you.


Was talking to a lady the other day and she worded the way i feel better then i can. Folks should get paid a FAIR wage for what they do not EQUAL wage.

MrSeraph [2270413]

I'd also argue from a business owners perspective for $20/hr to stock shelves I'd still rather invest in a multi million dollar automation project.

I'd rather displace more workers than pay a handful of employees an outrageous $20/hr to stock shelves, and pay 2-3 people $40/hr to maintain the automated systems.

If I have a choice between hiring 20 employees for $20/hr - Or the option to replace those 20 employees with 2-3 people for $40/hr, I'd rather take less employees. But that's because there's A LOT more paperwork involved with 20 employees than there is for 3.

Show post

SaintLuke [2220265]

I wish folks could understand this very simple concept...but it does not seem likely. Demand outrageous pay for the simplest jobs...them jobs will no longer be available.

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

care to tell me why burger flippers and stock clerks in Denmark earn 25 an hour and business still profits?


here's a hint, they produce WAY MORE VALUE THAN YOU THINK

SaintLuke [2220265]

No, a monkey can do the job...in America we have a tendency to invent automation for a simple job when folks want to be paid a stupid amount of money to do it. So if idiots like yourself want to try and push this outrageous pay for a stupid simple job that is not really needed....they will make the job automated. Then there will be no pay for the younger folks trying to get job experience.

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

what? dafuq do you mean people below 18 don't get paid that wage lol what.

SaintLuke [2220265]

you raise min. wage to something stupid, the monkey jobs go away. The monkey jobs go away, younger folks wont get the work experience they need. Not sure how i can make it any simpler for you.


Was talking to a lady the other day and she worded the way i feel better then i can. Folks should get paid a FAIR wage for what they do not EQUAL wage.

SaintLuke [2220265]

I wish folks could understand this very simple concept...but it does not seem likely. Demand outrageous pay for the simplest jobs...them jobs will no longer be available.

Show post

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

care to tell me why burger flippers and stock clerks in Denmark earn 25 an hour and business still profits?


here's a hint, they produce WAY MORE VALUE THAN YOU THINK

SaintLuke [2220265]

No, a monkey can do the job...in America we have a tendency to invent automation for a simple job when folks want to be paid a stupid amount of money to do it. So if idiots like yourself want to try and push this outrageous pay for a stupid simple job that is not really needed....they will make the job automated. Then there will be no pay for the younger folks trying to get job experience.

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

what? dafuq do you mean people below 18 don't get paid that wage lol what.

SaintLuke [2220265]

you raise min. wage to something stupid, the monkey jobs go away. The monkey jobs go away, younger folks wont get the work experience they need. Not sure how i can make it any simpler for you.


Was talking to a lady the other day and she worded the way i feel better then i can. Folks should get paid a FAIR wage for what they do not EQUAL wage.

WiseTheRumGone [2078276]

except that happened in western Europe and jobs didn't go away.

stores are 24/7 looking for young employees.

and what? equal wage? stock clerks don't get paid 50 an hour like the average software job.

your not living in reality