Lindice [1855058]

Don't wanna get into an argument, of course slavery didn't just happen to black people, I assumed your post was within the context of the opening scene for Episode 2, don't think because you read some article on some website you know it all.

Slavery is real, it happened, not just to blacks, blacks were colonised and forced to work against their will, there are those who decided to fight back (they died most of the time) and there are those who decided to try and be like their "white masters" (they were despised).

Now I really don't want to go through a lengthy discussion about slavery and which people where enslaved more but these are facts you can lie to yourself all you want but these things happened.


What you saw in Episode 2 which you said made you almost puke I can assure you in reality far worse things happened to slaves. This is not about blacks and whites fact is a HUGE number of africans were shipped to European countries / America etc. to be slaves. THAT IS A FACT and that is what was being portrayed in Episode 2 and the hatred the slaves had for their captors, that was real life and all that shit happened, whether you accept it or not.

Americans DID NOT abolish slavery, that's what you seem to be implying, many black people died fighting for their freedom, they got support in the end from some "white" people who eventually came to realize how wrong slavery was.

One thing you are right about though is this not being the right place for this discussion.

MadHatter [486416]

1) I've read much more on the topic than just "some article on some website" and there is a plethora of evidence supporting my claim that slavery wasn't a racial white vs black issue. In that scene, the guy tells the slaves: "Oh, you don't know you're black yet" and made the insinuations that them being black in America was what created their oppression, not the fact that they were slaves in America. I'm not denying that there was a racial divide and that black people were treated more than poorly for centuries in America, but let's not treat it like we were imprisoning black people just because they were black. They were captured as slaves because the Europeans were able to convince the Africans to sell out their fellow man. Slavery was an atrocity (and unfortunately still is in many parts of the world), but it was an economic atrocity, and one that played on human greed rather than prejudice and racism.

2) "there are those that decided to try and be like their 'white masters'" - oh yes, trying to be like their white masters by profiting off the subjugation and abuse of their fellow man. It's somehow still all the white man's fault that these terrible human beings used their freedom to perpetuate the same atrocities. Jesus christ, it can't possibly be that slavery was economic, and these people utilized it for their own selfish means. Nah, they were just brainwashed by the white devils. How about the Native Americans that owned slaves? Were they brainwashed by the white people too?

3) Many black people died fighting for their freedom? Very true. But if black people didn't have rights and didn't have social and political influence, then what did it matter? In the end, it would have come down to the support given from white people, yeah? Again, you can't have it both ways. If the white people (I'm not going to say 'we' in regards to this because I'm descended from a line of poor immigrants) treated black people like animals, and used slavery as a tool of oppression rather than one for economic gain, how did any black movement for freedom gain momentum.

I mean, it's just absurd that we keep bringing race into this issue, and using it to demonize white people. Racism and racial prejudice do exist. They existed then, and they exist today. But they exist across all nationalities and ethnicities. Using slavery as a racial issue is just an easy way of worsening current-day racial divides, and an effective one because anybody who tries to talk honestly about it gets immediately dismissed as a racist.

The fact that this is so prevalent in our media (much more so today than, say, ten years ago) is destructive to race relations. This white guilt and white shaming nonsense is undeniably racist in its own way. Besides, these days white people (people of white European descent and white people in culturally-diverse European nations) are statistically among the most racially/culturally tolerant and accepting people in the world, if not the most. Why don't we receive credit where credit is due?

Lindice [1855058]

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Lindice [1855058]

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MadHatter [486416]

Being black automatically gives you insight into slavery? Being white means I know less about slavery than black people? How silly.

What does race have to do with historical knowledge? People that know more about a historical subject are the people that have done more research. I think it's far beyond racist to suggest that any race should have an inherent understanding of a historical subject. I mean, it's mind blowing that anyone would claim that, as it's not a legitimate argument, it's a means of shutting up anyone that's trying to honestly discuss a touchy subject.

All throughout history, white people of various ethnicities/nationalities/etc have been slaves in various regions and to various other ethnicities/nationalities. What inherent understanding of slavery does that offer me? In fact, descendants of every ethnicity have at some time, in some place, been the victims of slavery of some form. Do we all start with an inherent understanding of slavery? Being a more emotionally-charged subject for some people doesn't give them more of a right to hold opinions on it, and it doesn't give their opinions any more weight. All that matters is the facts and the people that hold them. Facts don't care about feelings, and facts aren't prejudiced or racist.

Lindice [1855058]

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MadHatter [486416]

Being black automatically gives you insight into slavery? Being white means I know less about slavery than black people? How silly.

What does race have to do with historical knowledge? People that know more about a historical subject are the people that have done more research. I think it's far beyond racist to suggest that any race should have an inherent understanding of a historical subject. I mean, it's mind blowing that anyone would claim that, as it's not a legitimate argument, it's a means of shutting up anyone that's trying to honestly discuss a touchy subject.

All throughout history, white people of various ethnicities/nationalities/etc have been slaves in various regions and to various other ethnicities/nationalities. What inherent understanding of slavery does that offer me? In fact, descendants of every ethnicity have at some time, in some place, been the victims of slavery of some form. Do we all start with an inherent understanding of slavery? Being a more emotionally-charged subject for some people doesn't give them more of a right to hold opinions on it, and it doesn't give their opinions any more weight. All that matters is the facts and the people that hold them. Facts don't care about feelings, and facts aren't prejudiced or racist.

Lindice [1855058]

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TheInternet [2052645]

I can tell Lindice is American thats for sure xD

I think when he says "white man" he is referring to the white races in America and possible extended to British white people as the Brits practiced power/control very widely. I wonder do you lump like Norweigans in there too with "white man"?? cause altogether completely different cultures.

oh yeah and as a witness to your guys argument, if i were to tag one side with the phrase "most ignorant" it would probably be Lindice for refusing to see the situation in question from a different perspective and denying all your wonderful points MadHatter. Though this is hardly the thread for any of it xD

TheInternet [2052645]

I can tell Lindice is American thats for sure xD

I think when he says "white man" he is referring to the white races in America and possible extended to British white people as the Brits practiced power/control very widely. I wonder do you lump like Norweigans in there too with "white man"?? cause altogether completely different cultures.

oh yeah and as a witness to your guys argument, if i were to tag one side with the phrase "most ignorant" it would probably be Lindice for refusing to see the situation in question from a different perspective and denying all your wonderful points MadHatter. Though this is hardly the thread for any of it xD

Lindice [1855058]

I'll just leave this to those who watch the episode and come back to read your comment. That's the only was anyone will understand what this whole argument is about and why I said your argument happens to be one of the dumbest things anyone ever said to me.
Sure black people know nothing about slavery, they exaggerate it. :/

Lindice [1855058]

MadHatter has placed a bounty on you with a reward of $300,000

Lol #triggeredWhiteGuy

-El- [463504]

Yes. I'd say he didn't like what you wrote.

What he keenly ignores is redlining (their massive economic gain) & the fact that without people of color in the US, these folks would have no culture. As it is, you can clearly see how slavery gets dismissed, hence the guilty always get upset. Basically..."hit dogs always holler". Literally....NONE. Then he wants to pat himself on the back with..."but white people helped too...". Just remember, they still have a holiday for Columbus.

In any case, I was looking for a thread like this because my co-worker bugged the shit out of me to watch this show insisting I'd like it.

Lindice [1855058]

Sam9000 disliked your post

Sam9000 disliked your post

More #triggered "white" supremacists.

#START OF INTERNET SARCASM

They obviously know more about slavery than the people who were enslaved and still suffer discrimination because of their race and skin colour.

For sure "black" people are ignorant about racism and just exaggerate things to make "white" people look bad.
Of course just because I read some article on a website about HOW SLAVERY REALLY WENT DOWN I know the truth now. I cannot be told otherwise by anyone.
For sure "white" north americans and europeans were mainly responsible for the freedom of slaves and it had absolutely NOTHING to do with the slaves who fought and died for their beliefs, had nothing to do with the slaves that were raped and abused and torn from their families.
They did not earn their freedom, it was GIVEN to them by their "white" masters, without their "white" masters they wouldn't be free right now.

#END OF INTERNET SARCASM.


How anyone can be that stupid is beyond me but this is the internet so I guess shit like thiss goes down a lot.
In the first place this whole topic started just because someone felt the need to "puke" when he saw a scene in a movie about slaves who revolted against their captors.

SMH

I have played many games but torn by far has the most stupid, racist, ignorant bunch of people I ever saw. Pissing on a really sensitive topic just because you "read some article on a website" wtf. Nuff said. >.>

-El- [463504]

Yes. I'd say he didn't like what you wrote.

What he keenly ignores is redlining (their massive economic gain) & the fact that without people of color in the US, these folks would have no culture. As it is, you can clearly see how slavery gets dismissed, hence the guilty always get upset. Basically..."hit dogs always holler". Literally....NONE. Then he wants to pat himself on the back with..."but white people helped too...". Just remember, they still have a holiday for Columbus.

In any case, I was looking for a thread like this because my co-worker bugged the shit out of me to watch this show insisting I'd like it.

MadHatter [486416]

"without people of color in the US, these folks would have no culture"

eh... what? That's nonsense

"the guilty always get upset"

I'm not guilty of shit. THAT is what pisses me off so much about these debates. I'm "guilty" (or part of the "guilty party") simply because I'm white? That's BEYOND RACIST. I'm getting really tired of all this white guilt that I'm supposed to feel because of things that people who weren't even my ancestors did, simply because we have the same color of skin. Do you not see the irony of calling me racist, when you are EXPLICITLY judging me based on the color of my skin?

More than anything else, this is spitting on the people that truly have suffered as slaves, and the people that are currently suffering as slaves. Instead of wasting all of our time and energy trying to place blame and victimhood on past atrocities, how about we start working together to end the CURRENT atrocities?

MadHatter [486416]

I'm done with this. I've said my piece, you've said yours.