saltyvalves - Page 8 | Graveyard | TORN
saltyvalves
    • Unlucky [2472585]
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    Posted on 23:21:02 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    MightyGoober [812478]

    Idea:

    Can Chedburn create his own Charity? Can the chairies mission, literally be to give to other charities? Is that a thing?

    Boom, personal player tax problem fixed, and you can track all of our donations in your own database (since you guys want that for some reason)
    I’ll admit I’ve joined this thread half way, and possibly don’t understand but, have we really got from 

    We want to do something for charity - Reeeeee Ched is only doing this for tax relief.


    To

    how about this - Reeeeee only if WE get tax relief.


    Like I say, if I’ve missed a lot and happy to be corrected.
    Last edited by Unlucky on 23:21:43 - 22/11/22
    • Mordros [37]
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    Posted on 23:24:18 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    bogie [148747]

    Intention or not it's exactly what you achieved through your misinformation...

    If you don't want to use such a system then don't use it. If you want to donate money to Torn to get benefits then you're always better off doing regular donator packs. The purpose of the charity centre would never be a "pay to win" system, as it would be largely cosmetic with some minor perks, that would no doubt be not quite as good as buying donator packs, but unique enough where there's some people who would be interested.

    This whole system is about Torn working alongside it's community to benefit the world as a whole, and provide an incentive for people to donate for charitable causes.

    The whole argument of "but I could claim this myself!!!" is a bit ridiculous in my view as if that's the case then go ahead and do that directly to the charity then? That's great! Win win! You get what you want and the charity, which is what we want to benefit here, rather than Torn in any way, gets support!

    But were you ever going to do that? Probably not... The whole point here is about giving some way where people would donate to charity and get something they might want in place of that, utilising the community as a whole to really make a larger difference for society.

    We have a great community here in Torn, and want what we've done here to help make the world better.

    Adrenalinas [1974447]

    I like the idea.
    Titles, different color names, and so on still have "some minor perks" mentioned there can be a kinda op like a book voucher (especially if you could get more than one) anyway savages made a mistake by telling this
    Torn will provide a range of in-game rewards which increase in usefulness and prestige the more you donate

    that kinda sounded like making torn p2w. I think if it would be described like Ched said

    All rewards would be cosmetic, or provide a very slight / minor advantage which is very limited.
    it would be much less resistance

    sugarvalves [1963573]

    You're right, that part was badly worded. I should've pointed out that the small number of rewards that are even slightly useful - if the community thinks we should introduce them at all - would only be for top-tier charitable donators who are throwing down absolutely obscene amounts.

    The OP is clearly a mouth-breathing disappointment who enjoys playing the villain, but I completely understand and agree with anyone who responded to the thread negatively due to the perception that we were suggesting a charity-based P2W format. That's not the intention. We're not Activision, and as far as I know, we're not introducing a Neymar NPC anytime soon. I think we've got the license for Eric Djemba-Djemba though.

    Anyway, I'll figure out a better way to word everything when we post this again, as our main aim is to find out what the community actually wants in return for donating - and of course, what you don't want.
    I think things have gotten a little off topic, when are we getting Djemba-Djemba (so good they named him twice)?

    rn

    • Beerstein [1322136]
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    Posted on 23:24:41 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    Zapi [2414001]

    This thread is on a whole new level of clusterf**k shit posting.
    That should be a generic disclaimer auto attached to the top of every thread when created in Torn.

     

    • sugarvalves [1963573]
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    Posted on 23:26:08 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    bogie [148747]

    Intention or not it's exactly what you achieved through your misinformation...

    If you don't want to use such a system then don't use it. If you want to donate money to Torn to get benefits then you're always better off doing regular donator packs. The purpose of the charity centre would never be a "pay to win" system, as it would be largely cosmetic with some minor perks, that would no doubt be not quite as good as buying donator packs, but unique enough where there's some people who would be interested.

    This whole system is about Torn working alongside it's community to benefit the world as a whole, and provide an incentive for people to donate for charitable causes.

    The whole argument of "but I could claim this myself!!!" is a bit ridiculous in my view as if that's the case then go ahead and do that directly to the charity then? That's great! Win win! You get what you want and the charity, which is what we want to benefit here, rather than Torn in any way, gets support!

    But were you ever going to do that? Probably not... The whole point here is about giving some way where people would donate to charity and get something they might want in place of that, utilising the community as a whole to really make a larger difference for society.

    We have a great community here in Torn, and want what we've done here to help make the world better.

    Nova [1570883]

    He does have a point though.

    In the UK, if I donated £50K to the charity myself, I would receive tax relief in the form of gift aid, by grossing up the BRB by £62.5k (£50K/0.8), therefore increasing my basic rate band from £37.7k to £100.2k, receiving tax relief on the income donated as this income would be taxed at 20% rather than 40%.

    Or if I donate through a payroll giving scheme, the donation is directly deducted from my employment income, therefore once again I don't pay tax on that income.

    If I was to make the donation through Torn I would receive a few cosmetics benefit which would likely carry a lower monetary value than the amount of tax I would have saved.

    Obviously, Torn itself doesn't benefit from these donations in any way, other than perhaps from a reputational perspective, however, I think people should still be aware that there are more benefits to be had from donating themselves, as I think we can all agree no one should pay tax on the money they intend to donate to charity.

    Andyman [471591]

    Degreed Accountant in the US here.

    Just a heads up for anyone in the US, federal law does not allow charitable donations through a payroll deduction to be done pre-tax. (Unlike an HSA contribution or 401k contribution)

    A donation to a Torn charity is going to be treated as any other charity assuming the Torn charity is a 501(c)(3)
    I'm enjoying the fact that the guy who tried to derail the original thread has now had his own thread derailed with actual useful information.
    • Beerstein [1322136]
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    Posted on 23:30:48 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    At this point I'm waiting for the "What if I want the benefits/cosmetics but really don't want my money to go towards helping people that should pull themselves up by their boostraps? Also, as a secondary question, will Ched know if I try to reverse the payment?"
    Last edited by Beerstein on 23:31:56 - 22/11/22

     

    • ANARCHIA [2632824]
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    Posted on 23:31:48 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    sugarvalves [1963573]

    I'm enjoying the fact that the guy who tried to derail the original thread has now had his own thread derailed with actual useful information.
    i sure f**king believe it, since the thread was about your inelegant message.

    are your parents proud of you?

    edit:
    sugarvalves disliked your post

    salty...
    Last edited by ANARCHIA on 00:17:34 - 23/11/22
    • Fulcrom [2814991]
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    Posted on 23:37:22 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    this is a shitpost but to confusing to read can it really be called a shitpost if its not shitty enough for our 2 brain cells
    • MightyGoober [812478]
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    Posted on 23:40:02 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    MightyGoober [812478]

    Idea:

    Can Chedburn create his own Charity? Can the chairies mission, literally be to give to other charities? Is that a thing?

    Boom, personal player tax problem fixed, and you can track all of our donations in your own database (since you guys want that for some reason)

    Unlucky [2472585]

    I’ll admit I’ve joined this thread half way, and possibly don’t understand but, have we really got from

    We want to do something for charity - Reeeeee Ched is only doing this for tax relief.


    To

    how about this - Reeeeee only if WE get tax relief.


    Like I say, if I’ve missed a lot and happy to be corrected.
    Cheds/Torns/Sugars goal: Have players give money to charities.

    If you can incentivise people, lets think of ways to do that. The people who don't need a single reason to give to charity, probably already do.

    If you can convince the most selfish person in the world to give to charity, you achieved the goal.

    Also, if you don't carry a sense of skepticism whenever money is involved, you're probably not that great with money.

    • JoeSkull [533524]
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    Posted on 23:52:06 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    How some of ya'll be acting...

    Last edited by JoeSkull on 00:06:46 - 23/11/22
    • Beerstein [1322136]
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    Posted on 23:53:48 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    JoeSkull [533524]

    How some of ya'll be acting...

    Wait aren't the players the community? I'm confused.

     

    • Unlucky [2472585]
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    Posted on 23:56:43 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    MightyGoober [812478]

    Idea:

    Can Chedburn create his own Charity? Can the chairies mission, literally be to give to other charities? Is that a thing?

    Boom, personal player tax problem fixed, and you can track all of our donations in your own database (since you guys want that for some reason)

    Unlucky [2472585]

    I’ll admit I’ve joined this thread half way, and possibly don’t understand but, have we really got from

    We want to do something for charity - Reeeeee Ched is only doing this for tax relief.


    To

    how about this - Reeeeee only if WE get tax relief.


    Like I say, if I’ve missed a lot and happy to be corrected.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    Cheds/Torns/Sugars goal: Have players give money to charities.

    If you can incentivise people, lets think of ways to do that. The people who don't need a single reason to give to charity, probably already do.

    If you can convince the most selfish person in the world to give to charity, you achieved the goal.

    Also, if you don't carry a sense of skepticism whenever money is involved, you're probably not that great with money.
    So what’s the issue?
    • JoeSkull [533524]
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    Posted on 00:07:13 - 23/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    JoeSkull [533524]

    How some of ya'll be acting...

    Beerstein [1322136]

    Wait aren't the players the community? I'm confused.
    My mistake, was supposed to say "Ched and Charity". Fixed it. Thanks!
    • Migs [2166018]
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    Posted on 00:09:18 - 23/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    Seems like a lot over nothing that important. Donate through game if you want. Donate personally if you want. Don't donate at all. Whether Ched makes money or not through this isn't even our business. It's his platform and the only obligation he has to you is in the form of completing monetary transactions for items he states he will give you in game (I.e donator packs)

    Sometimes seems the community being the size it is with a owner who actively participates in it makes people think they have a "right" to certain information that they don't. It's a private entity with almost no obligation to any of us. Does seem weird to me when staff act blatantly unprofessional in responses but ultimately if Ched is cool with it that's the end of it.

    • Rebelraider [2654066]
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    Posted on 00:13:34 - 23/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    Since you are getting something else in return not sure if it can be deducted. But otherwise an individual should be able to deduct what they donated. 

    This reminds me of the misinformation out there claiming that grocery stores get to claim what you donate at point of sale purchases. Which is not true either.

    Welcome to Costco, I love you.

    • Beerstein [1322136]
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    Posted on 00:14:05 - 23/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    Migs [2166018]

    Seems like a lot over nothing that important. Donate through game if you want. Donate personally if you want. Don't donate at all. Whether Ched makes money or not through this isn't even our business. It's his platform and the only obligation he has to you is in the form of completing monetary transactions for items he states he will give you in game (I.e donator packs)

    Sometimes seems the community being the size it is with a owner who actively participates in it makes people think they have a "right" to certain information that they don't. It's a private entity with almost no obligation to any of us. Does seem weird to me when staff act blatantly unprofessional in responses but ultimately if Ched is cool with it that's the end of it.
    Agree on both points. But it's important to present a good image to sell a product, in this case donations. Also staff have always been unprofessional and it's unfortunate tbh. There's a difference between roleplay (duke shit) and actual shit talk. I get their desire to defend Ched especially since he has good intentions but lashing out at players is a pretty poor and very unprofessional way to do it. But like you said, cheds game and ultimately he seems cool with it.

     

    • Prevalence [2825160]
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    Posted on 00:14:08 - 23/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    One thing to note: Picking a book of your choice is way too good of a reward.

    Getting the 99k happy book when you're brand new completely bypasses the happy jump stages of the game.

    You'd be saving billions + months of time. Is that fair to everyone who doesn't donate?
    • Beerstein [1322136]
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    Posted on 00:16:54 - 23/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    Prevalence [2825160]

    One thing to note: Picking a book of your choice is way too good of a reward.

    Getting the 99k happy book when you're brand new completely bypasses the happy jump stages of the game.

    You'd be saving billions + months of time. Is that fair to everyone who doesn't donate?
    Early stats are essentially time gated, so tbh that's selling massive amounts of power that is otherwise unattainable without extreme luck. Not really a fan of it myself.

     

    • SporkMonkey [2065017]
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    Posted on 00:17:53 - 23/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    Tarelli [1060371]

    When I give to charity I don't do it to get money back...

    finally [2060206]

    But why not, if you can? Not like charity gets less, in fact you could donate more if you calculate the deductions of taxes in :) Win win to me :)

    Tarelli [1060371]

    I don't know if I can.

    Its not something I'd bother looking in to.

    I just give to causes when I see fit.

    finally [2060206]

    Sounds like the norm torn player, not giving a damn about their taxes, so cant blame you there! You do you!

    Tarelli [1060371]

    My wife is a accountant, why would I care about my taxes???

    finally [2060206]

    Clearly your wife is a shit accountant, sorry to tell you.
    This book may help you wrap this thread up in a more positive manner.





    You're not doing a great job bringing people over to your side of the arguement.
    • Ariston [2322328]
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    Posted on 00:26:17 - 23/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    Forums are the real Crimes 2.0

    CR-animated-Ariston.gif

    • Beerstein [1322136]
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    Posted on 00:31:52 - 23/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    Ariston [2322328]

    Forums are the real Crimes 2.0
    Forums are the original Crime. That's the real reason we think crimes 2.0 hasn't come, it's been there all along.

     

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