saltyvalves - Page 7 | Graveyard | TORN
saltyvalves
    • gl1tchh [2395677]
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    Posted on 22:38:22 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    Good job, you now have 2 threads making you look like an uninformed chucklef**k. Maybe quit while you're not too far behind.

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    • Beerstein [1322136]
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    Posted on 22:40:32 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    finally [2060206]



    Sugartits representing TORN as a f**king retard asshole, sugartits parents must be proud they never made it out of committee to staff.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    Being shutdown for asking legitimate questions isn't right.

    The moment I started reading over it, i figured Torn benefits.

    In some way or form, Ched wouldn't do this unless it benefited his business. Whether it's a tax incentive, or something else.... there is something.

    If there is literally no business case for Ched, why add it?

    bogie [148747]

    Honestly that's just depressing that people genuinely cannot comprehend a genuine want to provide a means of help for people without a business incentive.


    There is nothing in it for Torn other than the knowledge that we can, as a community, better the world around us.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    First off, players being genuinely curious is being met with a large amount of hostility. If this does get released, you're going to need quite a big bullet proof Q&A page. We have questions, did you expect a mass amount of people to just blindly act like sheep?

    -

    Honestly, just let people donate directly to charity. Maybe a page with links out directly to their websites. You could list the countries where people get personal tax incentives (among other things), and your push could actually make people donate to causes, if that's all you want.


    If this is added to Torn, I'm going to feel like I'll have to drop $x amount of cash to "get a missed book", which already pisses me off because of the way the book chance is generated to an infinite loop of subscriber status. Not sure what I'm talking about?? clicky

    You're like Apple "fixing" problems they create.

    What if I don't want to donate to charity?
    The moment you say "well don't" ...

    ...


    ...

    You're offering services that you can't get anywhere else in the game. If I want to keep up, I'll have to. You listed way more than cosmetics in the rewards. I find some of those listed things OP.
    Stick to the colours and cosmetics.

    sugarvalves [1963573]

    This isn't a fair assessment of what actually happened at all, and I think if you go back and read through the thread, you'll agree.

    Genuine curiosity and questions are precisely what we wanted. Finally did not provide this. He suggested that the Charity Center was being set up to earn tax relief, refused to back down when called out on his incorrect interpretation of tax regulations, and ended by graciously editing his first post to admit he knew the sum total of f**k all about the situation, before admitting he was really only concerned about the lack of tax relief he himself would be able to claim.

    In doing this, Finally fulled derailed the thread, a thread that was posted specifically so we could discuss which rewards would be within the limits that the Torn community prefers. Not wanting charitable donations to affect gameplay at all, even for the most generous donators, is a perfectly legitimate view that we were and are still happy to discuss. Unfortunately, we didn't get to dig into any of this, because of one selfish, disingenuous, know-nothing attention seeker.

    And that's why I reacted angrily. I felt compelled to step in and stop this person because I know for a fact that what Ched's trying to do here is fundamentally good. We want to debate the ins and outs of this feature with the community to make sure it works for you all, hence why we set up the original thread. But if you think I'm going to respond politely when someone tries to make out that there are selfish motives behind this venture, you'll be unpleasantly surprised.
    I still say there's nothing wrong with game level power based rewards as long as it can't be seen as exclusivity.

    Example being my +300 energy gain from MCS stock for 25k+ donation, you could buy enough donor packs with 25k to level up +3 levels on MCS at 8-10 (the highest levels) and game design prevents you from gaining more than 1,000E at once. So effectively you could buy the same with even less money and have the Torn cash value to play with. So it's not exclusive, anyone can buy and sell donor packs at any time to lvl up MCS and get even better rewards than that. You can't get lvl 13 MCS because again capped at 1,000E.

    So I'm definitely not against buying power as long as it aligns with donor pack value (or close) and isn't exclusive. It's about incentivizing charitible donations. Sure you get LESS by donating to charity than buying and selling donor packs, but charity gets it, everyone wins.
    Last edited by Beerstein on 22:41:53 - 22/11/22

     

    • Lenin [2199004]
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    Posted on 22:40:41 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    i am strongly resisting my urge to shit all over the "make the world better" rhetoric that comes with appealing to charity, but the humble small business passion project nature of torn does tend to make me believe in a more pure altruistic reasoning for these kinds of statements than naked self-promotion - i'll wait until i see some external advert that mentions it needlessly before i actually groan

    tl;dr: imma get that gold honourbar lmao
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    • Nobody [237547]
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    Posted on 22:40:56 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    Juggernaut [39773]

    tax right off or not, there's nothing stopping you from choosing to donate directly, it's not as if you'll be rewarded with SE's.

    Personally, I think it's a good idea with 1 simple downside. Charity should be given as... well, charity. Rewards shouldn't be expected and when I think about the people in the future glory-bragging on the forums all I can picture are the soccer moms or influencer wannabe's filming themselves giving the homeless 10 cents and expecting to be treated like they shit gold.

    I'd also like it if the torn community could vote for new charities every so often

    JoeSkull [533524]

    While yes, I agree that charity should come from the heart, not all people are likely to donate. By providing a small incentive, it raises charitable contributions. Also, some may be on the fence on donating. Incentives help tip the scales.

    I see this to be more closely related to a long term charity drive rather than some evil tax evasion scheme. Whatever the reason, there is good to come from it.

    I don't have a lot of expendable cash but I have a large family. I do gather old clothes from my family to donate. I may or may not claim it on my taxes, typically not though. I do it because I want to avoid waste while helping people. If I had money to donate, I'd be all for Torn's charity (depending on the charity organizations and causes). I get to support a good cause AND get a small benefit in return? Why not?

    Beerstein [1322136]

    Also, research, finding legitimate institutions, going over their books etc. is a nightmare for most people. If a company they trust says they'll do that legwork and all you have to do is literally the same thing you do to make a pament that you're already doing anyway, it makes people a lot more comfortable dropping the $$$.

    The best incentive IMO would be something like up to +3 levels on your MCS block. At a low level it's great but limited value. The higher your BASE level of the stock is, the more value it is but the more you'd have to invest (caps at 10 cause max 1,000E). So essentailly to get the full value you'd need base lvl 7 in MCS, but still good for new players.

    ^^^A scaling incentive like that would be perfect for massive donations of like 10-25k. I'd have to double check the cost of 8-10 MCS but I spsuect it'd be valued at something like 25k in donor packs. So it'd incentivize massive donations, limit the amount of power given to a reasonable number for that donation, and incentivize the player to also invest heavily in MCS in-game.

    Edit: It's around 200b potential value. That's around 43k in USD for donor packs. So something like +3 levels in MCS would actually be a perfect incentive for a 25k+ donation (Imagine trying to sell 8,000 donator packs, f**k that) It's a super high value bonus if you invest for it, but it's also not a massive advantage and for putting 25k+ in charity? Hell yes.


    Varides disliked your post

    saltyvalves

    Clearly doesn't like chairty as you could literally buy more via donator packs in-game than that benefit would give.

    TL;DR 25k+ donations should give instant +300E passive to MCS stock blocks in addition to the other cosmetic bonuses. 25k in donor packs sold in-game would give more cash than lvl 8-10 MCS costs anyway and anyone downvoting this hates charity.
    I think you complicated your post so much so that people got confused, I believe a simpler way to say it would be "provide half the value that donator packs would give" or something along those lines. I got you covered with an R+ though!

    a6c6fc03-c67a-0db1-1806971.gif

    • MightyGoober [812478]
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    Posted on 22:42:35 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    finally [2060206]



    Sugartits representing TORN as a f**king retard asshole, sugartits parents must be proud they never made it out of committee to staff.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    Being shutdown for asking legitimate questions isn't right.

    The moment I started reading over it, i figured Torn benefits.

    In some way or form, Ched wouldn't do this unless it benefited his business. Whether it's a tax incentive, or something else.... there is something.

    If there is literally no business case for Ched, why add it?

    bogie [148747]

    Honestly that's just depressing that people genuinely cannot comprehend a genuine want to provide a means of help for people without a business incentive.


    There is nothing in it for Torn other than the knowledge that we can, as a community, better the world around us.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    First off, players being genuinely curious is being met with a large amount of hostility. If this does get released, you're going to need quite a big bullet proof Q&A page. We have questions, did you expect a mass amount of people to just blindly act like sheep?

    -

    Honestly, just let people donate directly to charity. Maybe a page with links out directly to their websites. You could list the countries where people get personal tax incentives (among other things), and your push could actually make people donate to causes, if that's all you want.


    If this is added to Torn, I'm going to feel like I'll have to drop $x amount of cash to "get a missed book", which already pisses me off because of the way the book chance is generated to an infinite loop of subscriber status. Not sure what I'm talking about?? clicky

    You're like Apple "fixing" problems they create.

    What if I don't want to donate to charity?
    The moment you say "well don't" ...

    ...


    ...

    You're offering services that you can't get anywhere else in the game. If I want to keep up, I'll have to. You listed way more than cosmetics in the rewards. I find some of those listed things OP.
    Stick to the colours and cosmetics.

    sugarvalves [1963573]

    This isn't a fair assessment of what actually happened at all, and I think if you go back and read through the thread, you'll agree.

    Genuine curiosity and questions are precisely what we wanted. Finally did not provide this. He suggested that the Charity Center was being set up to earn tax relief, refused to back down when called out on his incorrect interpretation of tax regulations, and ended by graciously editing his first post to admit he knew the sum total of f**k all about the situation, before admitting he was really only concerned about the lack of tax relief he himself would be able to claim.

    In doing this, Finally fulled derailed the thread, a thread that was posted specifically so we could discuss which rewards would be within the limits that the Torn community prefers. Not wanting charitable donations to affect gameplay at all, even for the most generous donators, is a perfectly legitimate view that we were and are still happy to discuss. Unfortunately, we didn't get to dig into any of this, because of one selfish, disingenuous, know-nothing attention seeker.

    And that's why I reacted angrily. I felt compelled to step in and stop this person because I know for a fact that what Ched's trying to do here is fundamentally good. We want to debate the ins and outs of this feature with the community to make sure it works for you all, hence why we set up the original thread. But if you think I'm going to respond politely when someone tries to make out that there are selfish motives behind this venture, you'll be unpleasantly surprised.
    If Torn truly does not benefit in ANY way, why become the middleman at all?

    Do you need more development ideas? Updates here get released pretty slowly, This is such a waste of valuable developer time.


    Link to your favourite charities, possibly even with a referral link for tracking (not by user), and list the benefits of donating, along with the good heart feelings.

    I'm really not sure why RL donating is making its way into the game.

    • Beerstein [1322136]
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    Posted on 22:46:46 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    finally [2060206]



    Sugartits representing TORN as a f**king retard asshole, sugartits parents must be proud they never made it out of committee to staff.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    Being shutdown for asking legitimate questions isn't right.

    The moment I started reading over it, i figured Torn benefits.

    In some way or form, Ched wouldn't do this unless it benefited his business. Whether it's a tax incentive, or something else.... there is something.

    If there is literally no business case for Ched, why add it?

    bogie [148747]

    Honestly that's just depressing that people genuinely cannot comprehend a genuine want to provide a means of help for people without a business incentive.


    There is nothing in it for Torn other than the knowledge that we can, as a community, better the world around us.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    First off, players being genuinely curious is being met with a large amount of hostility. If this does get released, you're going to need quite a big bullet proof Q&A page. We have questions, did you expect a mass amount of people to just blindly act like sheep?

    -

    Honestly, just let people donate directly to charity. Maybe a page with links out directly to their websites. You could list the countries where people get personal tax incentives (among other things), and your push could actually make people donate to causes, if that's all you want.


    If this is added to Torn, I'm going to feel like I'll have to drop $x amount of cash to "get a missed book", which already pisses me off because of the way the book chance is generated to an infinite loop of subscriber status. Not sure what I'm talking about?? clicky

    You're like Apple "fixing" problems they create.

    What if I don't want to donate to charity?
    The moment you say "well don't" ...

    ...


    ...

    You're offering services that you can't get anywhere else in the game. If I want to keep up, I'll have to. You listed way more than cosmetics in the rewards. I find some of those listed things OP.
    Stick to the colours and cosmetics.

    sugarvalves [1963573]

    This isn't a fair assessment of what actually happened at all, and I think if you go back and read through the thread, you'll agree.

    Genuine curiosity and questions are precisely what we wanted. Finally did not provide this. He suggested that the Charity Center was being set up to earn tax relief, refused to back down when called out on his incorrect interpretation of tax regulations, and ended by graciously editing his first post to admit he knew the sum total of f**k all about the situation, before admitting he was really only concerned about the lack of tax relief he himself would be able to claim.

    In doing this, Finally fulled derailed the thread, a thread that was posted specifically so we could discuss which rewards would be within the limits that the Torn community prefers. Not wanting charitable donations to affect gameplay at all, even for the most generous donators, is a perfectly legitimate view that we were and are still happy to discuss. Unfortunately, we didn't get to dig into any of this, because of one selfish, disingenuous, know-nothing attention seeker.

    And that's why I reacted angrily. I felt compelled to step in and stop this person because I know for a fact that what Ched's trying to do here is fundamentally good. We want to debate the ins and outs of this feature with the community to make sure it works for you all, hence why we set up the original thread. But if you think I'm going to respond politely when someone tries to make out that there are selfish motives behind this venture, you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    If Torn truly does not benefit in ANY way, why become the middleman at all?

    Do you need more development ideas? Updates here get released pretty slowly, This is such a waste of valuable developer time.


    Link to your favourite charities, possibly even with a referral link for tracking (not by user), and list the benefits of donating, along with the good heart feelings.

    I'm really not sure why RL donating is making its way into the game.
    Why do it at all? Because Ched is in a position to influence people, in a position to incentivize people and because he maybe sees that as having a responsibility to act to make the world a better place. 

    Because he's not a prick like Elon Musk that doesn't understand that his gains by exploiting others obligates him to help humanity but instead is a self-abdorbed douchebag.

    Honestly if you're in a position to influence for good, wouldn't you want to? It amazes me how many people don't understand why Ched would want to help people.
    Last edited by Beerstein on 22:47:05 - 22/11/22

     

    • MightyGoober [812478]
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    Posted on 22:49:57 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    MightyGoober [812478]

    Being shutdown for asking legitimate questions isn't right.

    The moment I started reading over it, i figured Torn benefits.

    In some way or form, Ched wouldn't do this unless it benefited his business. Whether it's a tax incentive, or something else.... there is something.

    If there is literally no business case for Ched, why add it?

    bogie [148747]

    Honestly that's just depressing that people genuinely cannot comprehend a genuine want to provide a means of help for people without a business incentive.


    There is nothing in it for Torn other than the knowledge that we can, as a community, better the world around us.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    First off, players being genuinely curious is being met with a large amount of hostility. If this does get released, you're going to need quite a big bullet proof Q&A page. We have questions, did you expect a mass amount of people to just blindly act like sheep?

    -

    Honestly, just let people donate directly to charity. Maybe a page with links out directly to their websites. You could list the countries where people get personal tax incentives (among other things), and your push could actually make people donate to causes, if that's all you want.


    If this is added to Torn, I'm going to feel like I'll have to drop $x amount of cash to "get a missed book", which already pisses me off because of the way the book chance is generated to an infinite loop of subscriber status. Not sure what I'm talking about?? clicky

    You're like Apple "fixing" problems they create.

    What if I don't want to donate to charity?
    The moment you say "well don't" ...

    ...


    ...

    You're offering services that you can't get anywhere else in the game. If I want to keep up, I'll have to. You listed way more than cosmetics in the rewards. I find some of those listed things OP.
    Stick to the colours and cosmetics.

    sugarvalves [1963573]

    This isn't a fair assessment of what actually happened at all, and I think if you go back and read through the thread, you'll agree.

    Genuine curiosity and questions are precisely what we wanted. Finally did not provide this. He suggested that the Charity Center was being set up to earn tax relief, refused to back down when called out on his incorrect interpretation of tax regulations, and ended by graciously editing his first post to admit he knew the sum total of f**k all about the situation, before admitting he was really only concerned about the lack of tax relief he himself would be able to claim.

    In doing this, Finally fulled derailed the thread, a thread that was posted specifically so we could discuss which rewards would be within the limits that the Torn community prefers. Not wanting charitable donations to affect gameplay at all, even for the most generous donators, is a perfectly legitimate view that we were and are still happy to discuss. Unfortunately, we didn't get to dig into any of this, because of one selfish, disingenuous, know-nothing attention seeker.

    And that's why I reacted angrily. I felt compelled to step in and stop this person because I know for a fact that what Ched's trying to do here is fundamentally good. We want to debate the ins and outs of this feature with the community to make sure it works for you all, hence why we set up the original thread. But if you think I'm going to respond politely when someone tries to make out that there are selfish motives behind this venture, you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    If Torn truly does not benefit in ANY way, why become the middleman at all?

    Do you need more development ideas? Updates here get released pretty slowly, This is such a waste of valuable developer time.


    Link to your favourite charities, possibly even with a referral link for tracking (not by user), and list the benefits of donating, along with the good heart feelings.

    I'm really not sure why RL donating is making its way into the game.

    Beerstein [1322136]

    Why do it at all? Because Ched is in a position to influence people, in a position to incentivize people and because he maybe sees that as having a responsibility to act to make the world a better place.

    Because he's not a prick like Elon Musk that doesn't understand that his gains by exploiting others obligates him to help humanity but instead is a self-abdorbed douchebag.

    Honestly if you're in a position to influence for good, wouldn't you want to? It amazes me how many people don't understand why Ched would want to help people.
    Doesn't answer my question about becoming the middleman, who tracks the date, time, amount donated, frequency of donations to charities.

    You can do everything you just listed without building it into the game. A charity awareness page with bright colours and fluffy flavour text is all you need.

    • Whisper [1828766]
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    Posted on 22:52:09 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    MightyGoober [812478]

    Being shutdown for asking legitimate questions isn't right.

    The moment I started reading over it, i figured Torn benefits.

    In some way or form, Ched wouldn't do this unless it benefited his business. Whether it's a tax incentive, or something else.... there is something.

    If there is literally no business case for Ched, why add it?

    bogie [148747]

    Honestly that's just depressing that people genuinely cannot comprehend a genuine want to provide a means of help for people without a business incentive.


    There is nothing in it for Torn other than the knowledge that we can, as a community, better the world around us.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    First off, players being genuinely curious is being met with a large amount of hostility. If this does get released, you're going to need quite a big bullet proof Q&A page. We have questions, did you expect a mass amount of people to just blindly act like sheep?

    -

    Honestly, just let people donate directly to charity. Maybe a page with links out directly to their websites. You could list the countries where people get personal tax incentives (among other things), and your push could actually make people donate to causes, if that's all you want.


    If this is added to Torn, I'm going to feel like I'll have to drop $x amount of cash to "get a missed book", which already pisses me off because of the way the book chance is generated to an infinite loop of subscriber status. Not sure what I'm talking about?? clicky

    You're like Apple "fixing" problems they create.

    What if I don't want to donate to charity?
    The moment you say "well don't" ...

    ...


    ...

    You're offering services that you can't get anywhere else in the game. If I want to keep up, I'll have to. You listed way more than cosmetics in the rewards. I find some of those listed things OP.
    Stick to the colours and cosmetics.

    sugarvalves [1963573]

    This isn't a fair assessment of what actually happened at all, and I think if you go back and read through the thread, you'll agree.

    Genuine curiosity and questions are precisely what we wanted. Finally did not provide this. He suggested that the Charity Center was being set up to earn tax relief, refused to back down when called out on his incorrect interpretation of tax regulations, and ended by graciously editing his first post to admit he knew the sum total of f**k all about the situation, before admitting he was really only concerned about the lack of tax relief he himself would be able to claim.

    In doing this, Finally fulled derailed the thread, a thread that was posted specifically so we could discuss which rewards would be within the limits that the Torn community prefers. Not wanting charitable donations to affect gameplay at all, even for the most generous donators, is a perfectly legitimate view that we were and are still happy to discuss. Unfortunately, we didn't get to dig into any of this, because of one selfish, disingenuous, know-nothing attention seeker.

    And that's why I reacted angrily. I felt compelled to step in and stop this person because I know for a fact that what Ched's trying to do here is fundamentally good. We want to debate the ins and outs of this feature with the community to make sure it works for you all, hence why we set up the original thread. But if you think I'm going to respond politely when someone tries to make out that there are selfish motives behind this venture, you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    If Torn truly does not benefit in ANY way, why become the middleman at all?

    Do you need more development ideas? Updates here get released pretty slowly, This is such a waste of valuable developer time.


    Link to your favourite charities, possibly even with a referral link for tracking (not by user), and list the benefits of donating, along with the good heart feelings.

    I'm really not sure why RL donating is making its way into the game.

    Beerstein [1322136]

    Why do it at all? Because Ched is in a position to influence people, in a position to incentivize people and because he maybe sees that as having a responsibility to act to make the world a better place.

    Because he's not a prick like Elon Musk that doesn't understand that his gains by exploiting others obligates him to help humanity but instead is a self-abdorbed douchebag.

    Honestly if you're in a position to influence for good, wouldn't you want to? It amazes me how many people don't understand why Ched would want to help people.
    e girls on tik tok have more pulling power
    • Beerstein [1322136]
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    Posted on 22:52:16 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    bogie [148747]

    Honestly that's just depressing that people genuinely cannot comprehend a genuine want to provide a means of help for people without a business incentive.


    There is nothing in it for Torn other than the knowledge that we can, as a community, better the world around us.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    First off, players being genuinely curious is being met with a large amount of hostility. If this does get released, you're going to need quite a big bullet proof Q&A page. We have questions, did you expect a mass amount of people to just blindly act like sheep?

    -

    Honestly, just let people donate directly to charity. Maybe a page with links out directly to their websites. You could list the countries where people get personal tax incentives (among other things), and your push could actually make people donate to causes, if that's all you want.


    If this is added to Torn, I'm going to feel like I'll have to drop $x amount of cash to "get a missed book", which already pisses me off because of the way the book chance is generated to an infinite loop of subscriber status. Not sure what I'm talking about?? clicky

    You're like Apple "fixing" problems they create.

    What if I don't want to donate to charity?
    The moment you say "well don't" ...

    ...


    ...

    You're offering services that you can't get anywhere else in the game. If I want to keep up, I'll have to. You listed way more than cosmetics in the rewards. I find some of those listed things OP.
    Stick to the colours and cosmetics.

    sugarvalves [1963573]

    This isn't a fair assessment of what actually happened at all, and I think if you go back and read through the thread, you'll agree.

    Genuine curiosity and questions are precisely what we wanted. Finally did not provide this. He suggested that the Charity Center was being set up to earn tax relief, refused to back down when called out on his incorrect interpretation of tax regulations, and ended by graciously editing his first post to admit he knew the sum total of f**k all about the situation, before admitting he was really only concerned about the lack of tax relief he himself would be able to claim.

    In doing this, Finally fulled derailed the thread, a thread that was posted specifically so we could discuss which rewards would be within the limits that the Torn community prefers. Not wanting charitable donations to affect gameplay at all, even for the most generous donators, is a perfectly legitimate view that we were and are still happy to discuss. Unfortunately, we didn't get to dig into any of this, because of one selfish, disingenuous, know-nothing attention seeker.

    And that's why I reacted angrily. I felt compelled to step in and stop this person because I know for a fact that what Ched's trying to do here is fundamentally good. We want to debate the ins and outs of this feature with the community to make sure it works for you all, hence why we set up the original thread. But if you think I'm going to respond politely when someone tries to make out that there are selfish motives behind this venture, you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    If Torn truly does not benefit in ANY way, why become the middleman at all?

    Do you need more development ideas? Updates here get released pretty slowly, This is such a waste of valuable developer time.


    Link to your favourite charities, possibly even with a referral link for tracking (not by user), and list the benefits of donating, along with the good heart feelings.

    I'm really not sure why RL donating is making its way into the game.

    Beerstein [1322136]

    Why do it at all? Because Ched is in a position to influence people, in a position to incentivize people and because he maybe sees that as having a responsibility to act to make the world a better place.

    Because he's not a prick like Elon Musk that doesn't understand that his gains by exploiting others obligates him to help humanity but instead is a self-abdorbed douchebag.

    Honestly if you're in a position to influence for good, wouldn't you want to? It amazes me how many people don't understand why Ched would want to help people.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    Doesn't answer my question about becoming the middleman, who tracks the date, time, amount donated, frequency of donations to charities.

    You can do everything you just listed without building it into the game. A charity awareness page with bright colours and fluffy flavour text is all you need.
    A charity awareness post wont generate as much money as having an artist scribble off a few things and insert it into the template that is game items. It's not about bare minimum, it's about action.

    I get it you want faster better development we all do, but this isn't gonna suddenly cause Torn development to screech to a halt and Ched has seen it as worth the investment for the returns it'd give. Good on him honestly.

     

    • Beerstein [1322136]
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    Posted on 22:52:52 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    bogie [148747]

    Honestly that's just depressing that people genuinely cannot comprehend a genuine want to provide a means of help for people without a business incentive.


    There is nothing in it for Torn other than the knowledge that we can, as a community, better the world around us.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    First off, players being genuinely curious is being met with a large amount of hostility. If this does get released, you're going to need quite a big bullet proof Q&A page. We have questions, did you expect a mass amount of people to just blindly act like sheep?

    -

    Honestly, just let people donate directly to charity. Maybe a page with links out directly to their websites. You could list the countries where people get personal tax incentives (among other things), and your push could actually make people donate to causes, if that's all you want.


    If this is added to Torn, I'm going to feel like I'll have to drop $x amount of cash to "get a missed book", which already pisses me off because of the way the book chance is generated to an infinite loop of subscriber status. Not sure what I'm talking about?? clicky

    You're like Apple "fixing" problems they create.

    What if I don't want to donate to charity?
    The moment you say "well don't" ...

    ...


    ...

    You're offering services that you can't get anywhere else in the game. If I want to keep up, I'll have to. You listed way more than cosmetics in the rewards. I find some of those listed things OP.
    Stick to the colours and cosmetics.

    sugarvalves [1963573]

    This isn't a fair assessment of what actually happened at all, and I think if you go back and read through the thread, you'll agree.

    Genuine curiosity and questions are precisely what we wanted. Finally did not provide this. He suggested that the Charity Center was being set up to earn tax relief, refused to back down when called out on his incorrect interpretation of tax regulations, and ended by graciously editing his first post to admit he knew the sum total of f**k all about the situation, before admitting he was really only concerned about the lack of tax relief he himself would be able to claim.

    In doing this, Finally fulled derailed the thread, a thread that was posted specifically so we could discuss which rewards would be within the limits that the Torn community prefers. Not wanting charitable donations to affect gameplay at all, even for the most generous donators, is a perfectly legitimate view that we were and are still happy to discuss. Unfortunately, we didn't get to dig into any of this, because of one selfish, disingenuous, know-nothing attention seeker.

    And that's why I reacted angrily. I felt compelled to step in and stop this person because I know for a fact that what Ched's trying to do here is fundamentally good. We want to debate the ins and outs of this feature with the community to make sure it works for you all, hence why we set up the original thread. But if you think I'm going to respond politely when someone tries to make out that there are selfish motives behind this venture, you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    If Torn truly does not benefit in ANY way, why become the middleman at all?

    Do you need more development ideas? Updates here get released pretty slowly, This is such a waste of valuable developer time.


    Link to your favourite charities, possibly even with a referral link for tracking (not by user), and list the benefits of donating, along with the good heart feelings.

    I'm really not sure why RL donating is making its way into the game.

    Beerstein [1322136]

    Why do it at all? Because Ched is in a position to influence people, in a position to incentivize people and because he maybe sees that as having a responsibility to act to make the world a better place.

    Because he's not a prick like Elon Musk that doesn't understand that his gains by exploiting others obligates him to help humanity but instead is a self-abdorbed douchebag.

    Honestly if you're in a position to influence for good, wouldn't you want to? It amazes me how many people don't understand why Ched would want to help people.

    Whisper [1828766]

    e girls on tik tok have more pulling power
    Surely you mean more tugging power. Also good on them, they can donate too.

     

    • Nobody [237547]
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    Posted on 22:53:31 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    finally [2060206]



    Sugartits representing TORN as a f**king retard asshole, sugartits parents must be proud they never made it out of committee to staff.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    Being shutdown for asking legitimate questions isn't right.

    The moment I started reading over it, i figured Torn benefits.

    In some way or form, Ched wouldn't do this unless it benefited his business. Whether it's a tax incentive, or something else.... there is something.

    If there is literally no business case for Ched, why add it?
    Well, Ched is well off with cash, not enough to give him dragons sickness yet though.

    Also, it does "benefit" torn to have charitable efforts, not sure if they'd get any publicity from that work specifically, especially out to their target audience, but it does put this game in a good light. Doesn't make the game more enjoyable specifically, but it does move the game slightly away from a pure cash based focus.

    This has been talked about ever since pre-respo IIRC, if I am correct on that, this is older than the crimes 2.0 announcement... If anything, this should have come much sooner, just like C2.0.

    a6c6fc03-c67a-0db1-1806971.gif

    • Andyman [471591]
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    Posted on 22:59:32 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    bogie [148747]

    Intention or not it's exactly what you achieved through your misinformation...

    If you don't want to use such a system then don't use it. If you want to donate money to Torn to get benefits then you're always better off doing regular donator packs. The purpose of the charity centre would never be a "pay to win" system, as it would be largely cosmetic with some minor perks, that would no doubt be not quite as good as buying donator packs, but unique enough where there's some people who would be interested.

    This whole system is about Torn working alongside it's community to benefit the world as a whole, and provide an incentive for people to donate for charitable causes.

    The whole argument of "but I could claim this myself!!!" is a bit ridiculous in my view as if that's the case then go ahead and do that directly to the charity then? That's great! Win win! You get what you want and the charity, which is what we want to benefit here, rather than Torn in any way, gets support!

    But were you ever going to do that? Probably not... The whole point here is about giving some way where people would donate to charity and get something they might want in place of that, utilising the community as a whole to really make a larger difference for society.

    We have a great community here in Torn, and want what we've done here to help make the world better.

    Nova [1570883]

    He does have a point though.

    In the UK, if I donated £50K to the charity myself, I would receive tax relief in the form of gift aid, by grossing up the BRB by £62.5k (£50K/0.8), therefore increasing my basic rate band from £37.7k to £100.2k, receiving tax relief on the income donated as this income would be taxed at 20% rather than 40%.

    Or if I donate through a payroll giving scheme, the donation is directly deducted from my employment income, therefore once again I don't pay tax on that income.

    If I was to make the donation through Torn I would receive a few cosmetics benefit which would likely carry a lower monetary value than the amount of tax I would have saved.

    Obviously, Torn itself doesn't benefit from these donations in any way, other than perhaps from a reputational perspective, however, I think people should still be aware that there are more benefits to be had from donating themselves, as I think we can all agree no one should pay tax on the money they intend to donate to charity.
    Degreed Accountant in the US here.

    Just a heads up for anyone in the US, federal law does not allow charitable donations through a payroll deduction to be done pre-tax. (Unlike an HSA contribution or 401k contribution)

    A donation to a Torn charity is going to be treated as any other charity assuming the Torn charity is a 501(c)(3)
    • Unlucky [2472585]
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    Posted on 23:00:57 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    finally [2060206]



    Sugartits representing TORN as a f**king retard asshole, sugartits parents must be proud they never made it out of committee to staff.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    Being shutdown for asking legitimate questions isn't right.

    The moment I started reading over it, i figured Torn benefits.

    In some way or form, Ched wouldn't do this unless it benefited his business. Whether it's a tax incentive, or something else.... there is something.

    If there is literally no business case for Ched, why add it?
    But was OP shut down? He was DM'ed (as apposed to the forum which would arguable resulted in a bigger pile on, as shown here). He could of licked his wounds and no one would of known it.

    Its fine to consider the alternative benefits, but to strait up declare something wrong, and be called out for being a moron is a great tradition of these forums, that i myself would like to see continued.

    I'm a big fan of the fact i can call bellends being bellends bellends, and i don't want that to end, and i thing that right should extend to sugar.
    • JoeSkull [533524]
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    Posted on 23:01:14 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    For the people screaming "wHy nOt DoNaTe DiReCtLy" because you're afraid Ched is scheming, I think the next time Torn has downtime, you should have to donate to a charity to get your chain restored. 

    Always the first to cry "me! This isn't fair! Gimme free stuff!" but suddenly suspicious of Ched cuz "tAxEs". Give me a break.
    • CHINGADERA [2270005]
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    Posted on 23:03:53 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    MightyGoober [812478]

    Being shutdown for asking legitimate questions isn't right.

    The moment I started reading over it, i figured Torn benefits.

    In some way or form, Ched wouldn't do this unless it benefited his business. Whether it's a tax incentive, or something else.... there is something.

    If there is literally no business case for Ched, why add it?

    bogie [148747]

    Honestly that's just depressing that people genuinely cannot comprehend a genuine want to provide a means of help for people without a business incentive.


    There is nothing in it for Torn other than the knowledge that we can, as a community, better the world around us.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    First off, players being genuinely curious is being met with a large amount of hostility. If this does get released, you're going to need quite a big bullet proof Q&A page. We have questions, did you expect a mass amount of people to just blindly act like sheep?

    -

    Honestly, just let people donate directly to charity. Maybe a page with links out directly to their websites. You could list the countries where people get personal tax incentives (among other things), and your push could actually make people donate to causes, if that's all you want.


    If this is added to Torn, I'm going to feel like I'll have to drop $x amount of cash to "get a missed book", which already pisses me off because of the way the book chance is generated to an infinite loop of subscriber status. Not sure what I'm talking about?? clicky

    You're like Apple "fixing" problems they create.

    What if I don't want to donate to charity?
    The moment you say "well don't" ...

    ...


    ...

    You're offering services that you can't get anywhere else in the game. If I want to keep up, I'll have to. You listed way more than cosmetics in the rewards. I find some of those listed things OP.
    Stick to the colours and cosmetics.

    sugarvalves [1963573]

    This isn't a fair assessment of what actually happened at all, and I think if you go back and read through the thread, you'll agree.

    Genuine curiosity and questions are precisely what we wanted. Finally did not provide this. He suggested that the Charity Center was being set up to earn tax relief, refused to back down when called out on his incorrect interpretation of tax regulations, and ended by graciously editing his first post to admit he knew the sum total of f**k all about the situation, before admitting he was really only concerned about the lack of tax relief he himself would be able to claim.

    In doing this, Finally fulled derailed the thread, a thread that was posted specifically so we could discuss which rewards would be within the limits that the Torn community prefers. Not wanting charitable donations to affect gameplay at all, even for the most generous donators, is a perfectly legitimate view that we were and are still happy to discuss. Unfortunately, we didn't get to dig into any of this, because of one selfish, disingenuous, know-nothing attention seeker.

    And that's why I reacted angrily. I felt compelled to step in and stop this person because I know for a fact that what Ched's trying to do here is fundamentally good. We want to debate the ins and outs of this feature with the community to make sure it works for you all, hence why we set up the original thread. But if you think I'm going to respond politely when someone tries to make out that there are selfish motives behind this venture, you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    If Torn truly does not benefit in ANY way, why become the middleman at all?

    Do you need more development ideas? Updates here get released pretty slowly, This is such a waste of valuable developer time.


    Link to your favourite charities, possibly even with a referral link for tracking (not by user), and list the benefits of donating, along with the good heart feelings.

    I'm really not sure why RL donating is making its way into the game.

    Beerstein [1322136]

    Why do it at all? Because Ched is in a position to influence people, in a position to incentivize people and because he maybe sees that as having a responsibility to act to make the world a better place.

    Because he's not a prick like Elon Musk that doesn't understand that his gains by exploiting others obligates him to help humanity but instead is a self-abdorbed douchebag.

    Honestly if you're in a position to influence for good, wouldn't you want to? It amazes me how many people don't understand why Ched would want to help people.
    I hear you bro, I see you. You're a passionate person. 

    I believe you mentioned it in one of your posts, if it wasn't you here's to that person, "the vast majority are selfish people and need a reason to give to others." I agree with this wholeheartedly, I've worked in middle to upper management for a long time and everyone is extremely selfish and only really want to accomplish the job with the most benefit to themselves.

    It's a vicious cycle for humans and it will persist until the blessed meteor comes. I digress, what makes you so sure Ched is not a prick? Finally may not have went about his post as diplomatically as possible to truly bring some engagement from Ched on the topic since he became irritated and locked the thread, but we need answers. Not just shinies for money. I have shinies, why do I want those shinies?

    We have the mouthpiece out here posting and going, dropping insults. Yada yada hostilities blah blah but no answers.

    This appears poorly put together, hastily pushed and I don't want to detract from the "work" that has been put in to this idea from Ched and Co. but if so much work was put in to the idea where's the presentation? I would expect this from a high schooler presenting. Not a for profit company looking to "help the world through the community".

    Imagine simping for a female, ever.

    #freehaha_noob

    • JDWV [2029519]
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    Posted on 23:10:10 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    bogie [148747]

    Honestly that's just depressing that people genuinely cannot comprehend a genuine want to provide a means of help for people without a business incentive.


    There is nothing in it for Torn other than the knowledge that we can, as a community, better the world around us.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    First off, players being genuinely curious is being met with a large amount of hostility. If this does get released, you're going to need quite a big bullet proof Q&A page. We have questions, did you expect a mass amount of people to just blindly act like sheep?

    -

    Honestly, just let people donate directly to charity. Maybe a page with links out directly to their websites. You could list the countries where people get personal tax incentives (among other things), and your push could actually make people donate to causes, if that's all you want.


    If this is added to Torn, I'm going to feel like I'll have to drop $x amount of cash to "get a missed book", which already pisses me off because of the way the book chance is generated to an infinite loop of subscriber status. Not sure what I'm talking about?? clicky

    You're like Apple "fixing" problems they create.

    What if I don't want to donate to charity?
    The moment you say "well don't" ...

    ...


    ...

    You're offering services that you can't get anywhere else in the game. If I want to keep up, I'll have to. You listed way more than cosmetics in the rewards. I find some of those listed things OP.
    Stick to the colours and cosmetics.

    sugarvalves [1963573]

    This isn't a fair assessment of what actually happened at all, and I think if you go back and read through the thread, you'll agree.

    Genuine curiosity and questions are precisely what we wanted. Finally did not provide this. He suggested that the Charity Center was being set up to earn tax relief, refused to back down when called out on his incorrect interpretation of tax regulations, and ended by graciously editing his first post to admit he knew the sum total of f**k all about the situation, before admitting he was really only concerned about the lack of tax relief he himself would be able to claim.

    In doing this, Finally fulled derailed the thread, a thread that was posted specifically so we could discuss which rewards would be within the limits that the Torn community prefers. Not wanting charitable donations to affect gameplay at all, even for the most generous donators, is a perfectly legitimate view that we were and are still happy to discuss. Unfortunately, we didn't get to dig into any of this, because of one selfish, disingenuous, know-nothing attention seeker.

    And that's why I reacted angrily. I felt compelled to step in and stop this person because I know for a fact that what Ched's trying to do here is fundamentally good. We want to debate the ins and outs of this feature with the community to make sure it works for you all, hence why we set up the original thread. But if you think I'm going to respond politely when someone tries to make out that there are selfish motives behind this venture, you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    If Torn truly does not benefit in ANY way, why become the middleman at all?

    Do you need more development ideas? Updates here get released pretty slowly, This is such a waste of valuable developer time.


    Link to your favourite charities, possibly even with a referral link for tracking (not by user), and list the benefits of donating, along with the good heart feelings.

    I'm really not sure why RL donating is making its way into the game.

    Beerstein [1322136]

    Why do it at all? Because Ched is in a position to influence people, in a position to incentivize people and because he maybe sees that as having a responsibility to act to make the world a better place.

    Because he's not a prick like Elon Musk that doesn't understand that his gains by exploiting others obligates him to help humanity but instead is a self-abdorbed douchebag.

    Honestly if you're in a position to influence for good, wouldn't you want to? It amazes me how many people don't understand why Ched would want to help people.

    CHINGADERA [2270005]

    I hear you bro, I see you. You're a passionate person.

    I believe you mentioned it in one of your posts, if it wasn't you here's to that person, "the vast majority are selfish people and need a reason to give to others." I agree with this wholeheartedly, I've worked in middle to upper management for a long time and everyone is extremely selfish and only really want to accomplish the job with the most benefit to themselves.

    It's a vicious cycle for humans and it will persist until the blessed meteor comes. I digress, what makes you so sure Ched is not a prick? Finally may not have went about his post as diplomatically as possible to truly bring some engagement from Ched on the topic since he became irritated and locked the thread, but we need answers. Not just shinies for money. I have shinies, why do I want those shinies?

    We have the mouthpiece out here posting and going, dropping insults. Yada yada hostilities blah blah but no answers.

    This appears poorly put together, hastily pushed and I don't want to detract from the "work" that has been put in to this idea from Ched and Co. but if so much work was put in to the idea where's the presentation? I would expect this from a high schooler presenting. Not a for profit company looking to "help the world through the community".
    Im just here cause everyone else is and you quoted a million people.  Cheers.  Continue your business.

    • MightyGoober [812478]
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    Posted on 23:13:01 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    finally [2060206]



    Sugartits representing TORN as a f**king retard asshole, sugartits parents must be proud they never made it out of committee to staff.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    Being shutdown for asking legitimate questions isn't right.

    The moment I started reading over it, i figured Torn benefits.

    In some way or form, Ched wouldn't do this unless it benefited his business. Whether it's a tax incentive, or something else.... there is something.

    If there is literally no business case for Ched, why add it?

    bogie [148747]

    Honestly that's just depressing that people genuinely cannot comprehend a genuine want to provide a means of help for people without a business incentive.


    There is nothing in it for Torn other than the knowledge that we can, as a community, better the world around us.

    finally [2060206]

    Imagine if there was third parties you could work with, so you could provide game benefits, and people could claim their tax benefits? sounds crazy, I know, but there are organizations like betterplace.org, and afaik they even have APIs.

    But who am I to say this, I never donate, right :)

    bogie [148747]

    This is an option we actually looked at in the past, the levels of red tape surrounding it made it impossible for us to achieve, and many charities actually didn't want to partner with "a crime game" out of fear of losing out on other donations through bad press.

    Ched comments on that here if you want a better source, this isn't an idea we've recently pulled out of nowhere, a lot of consideration has gone in to this and we want to make the world better with our community, I'm truly baffled why you continue to double down to shit on giving money to charity and discourage the same of others.
    https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=2&t=15968091&b=0&a=0&start=0&to=16934158
    Idea:

    Can Chedburn create his own Charity? Can the chairies mission, literally be to give to other charities? Is that a thing?

    Boom, personal player tax problem fixed, and you can track all of our donations in your own database (since you guys want that for some reason)

    • sugarvalves [1963573]
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    Posted on 23:13:25 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    bogie [148747]

    Honestly that's just depressing that people genuinely cannot comprehend a genuine want to provide a means of help for people without a business incentive.


    There is nothing in it for Torn other than the knowledge that we can, as a community, better the world around us.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    First off, players being genuinely curious is being met with a large amount of hostility. If this does get released, you're going to need quite a big bullet proof Q&A page. We have questions, did you expect a mass amount of people to just blindly act like sheep?

    -

    Honestly, just let people donate directly to charity. Maybe a page with links out directly to their websites. You could list the countries where people get personal tax incentives (among other things), and your push could actually make people donate to causes, if that's all you want.


    If this is added to Torn, I'm going to feel like I'll have to drop $x amount of cash to "get a missed book", which already pisses me off because of the way the book chance is generated to an infinite loop of subscriber status. Not sure what I'm talking about?? clicky

    You're like Apple "fixing" problems they create.

    What if I don't want to donate to charity?
    The moment you say "well don't" ...

    ...


    ...

    You're offering services that you can't get anywhere else in the game. If I want to keep up, I'll have to. You listed way more than cosmetics in the rewards. I find some of those listed things OP.
    Stick to the colours and cosmetics.

    sugarvalves [1963573]

    This isn't a fair assessment of what actually happened at all, and I think if you go back and read through the thread, you'll agree.

    Genuine curiosity and questions are precisely what we wanted. Finally did not provide this. He suggested that the Charity Center was being set up to earn tax relief, refused to back down when called out on his incorrect interpretation of tax regulations, and ended by graciously editing his first post to admit he knew the sum total of f**k all about the situation, before admitting he was really only concerned about the lack of tax relief he himself would be able to claim.

    In doing this, Finally fulled derailed the thread, a thread that was posted specifically so we could discuss which rewards would be within the limits that the Torn community prefers. Not wanting charitable donations to affect gameplay at all, even for the most generous donators, is a perfectly legitimate view that we were and are still happy to discuss. Unfortunately, we didn't get to dig into any of this, because of one selfish, disingenuous, know-nothing attention seeker.

    And that's why I reacted angrily. I felt compelled to step in and stop this person because I know for a fact that what Ched's trying to do here is fundamentally good. We want to debate the ins and outs of this feature with the community to make sure it works for you all, hence why we set up the original thread. But if you think I'm going to respond politely when someone tries to make out that there are selfish motives behind this venture, you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    If Torn truly does not benefit in ANY way, why become the middleman at all?

    Do you need more development ideas? Updates here get released pretty slowly, This is such a waste of valuable developer time.


    Link to your favourite charities, possibly even with a referral link for tracking (not by user), and list the benefits of donating, along with the good heart feelings.

    I'm really not sure why RL donating is making its way into the game.

    Beerstein [1322136]

    Why do it at all? Because Ched is in a position to influence people, in a position to incentivize people and because he maybe sees that as having a responsibility to act to make the world a better place.

    Because he's not a prick like Elon Musk that doesn't understand that his gains by exploiting others obligates him to help humanity but instead is a self-abdorbed douchebag.

    Honestly if you're in a position to influence for good, wouldn't you want to? It amazes me how many people don't understand why Ched would want to help people.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    Doesn't answer my question about becoming the middleman, who tracks the date, time, amount donated, frequency of donations to charities.

    You can do everything you just listed without building it into the game. A charity awareness page with bright colours and fluffy flavour text is all you need.
    I was discussing this with someone earlier. I won't name them in case they don't want to be drawn into all this, but they said "Sometimes, even just small tokenary benefits is enough to get people to do the right thing that otherwise wouldn't." That's why I think this is worthwhile.
    • Beerstein [1322136]
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    Posted on 23:19:47 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    bogie [148747]

    Honestly that's just depressing that people genuinely cannot comprehend a genuine want to provide a means of help for people without a business incentive.


    There is nothing in it for Torn other than the knowledge that we can, as a community, better the world around us.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    First off, players being genuinely curious is being met with a large amount of hostility. If this does get released, you're going to need quite a big bullet proof Q&A page. We have questions, did you expect a mass amount of people to just blindly act like sheep?

    -

    Honestly, just let people donate directly to charity. Maybe a page with links out directly to their websites. You could list the countries where people get personal tax incentives (among other things), and your push could actually make people donate to causes, if that's all you want.


    If this is added to Torn, I'm going to feel like I'll have to drop $x amount of cash to "get a missed book", which already pisses me off because of the way the book chance is generated to an infinite loop of subscriber status. Not sure what I'm talking about?? clicky

    You're like Apple "fixing" problems they create.

    What if I don't want to donate to charity?
    The moment you say "well don't" ...

    ...


    ...

    You're offering services that you can't get anywhere else in the game. If I want to keep up, I'll have to. You listed way more than cosmetics in the rewards. I find some of those listed things OP.
    Stick to the colours and cosmetics.

    sugarvalves [1963573]

    This isn't a fair assessment of what actually happened at all, and I think if you go back and read through the thread, you'll agree.

    Genuine curiosity and questions are precisely what we wanted. Finally did not provide this. He suggested that the Charity Center was being set up to earn tax relief, refused to back down when called out on his incorrect interpretation of tax regulations, and ended by graciously editing his first post to admit he knew the sum total of f**k all about the situation, before admitting he was really only concerned about the lack of tax relief he himself would be able to claim.

    In doing this, Finally fulled derailed the thread, a thread that was posted specifically so we could discuss which rewards would be within the limits that the Torn community prefers. Not wanting charitable donations to affect gameplay at all, even for the most generous donators, is a perfectly legitimate view that we were and are still happy to discuss. Unfortunately, we didn't get to dig into any of this, because of one selfish, disingenuous, know-nothing attention seeker.

    And that's why I reacted angrily. I felt compelled to step in and stop this person because I know for a fact that what Ched's trying to do here is fundamentally good. We want to debate the ins and outs of this feature with the community to make sure it works for you all, hence why we set up the original thread. But if you think I'm going to respond politely when someone tries to make out that there are selfish motives behind this venture, you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

    MightyGoober [812478]

    If Torn truly does not benefit in ANY way, why become the middleman at all?

    Do you need more development ideas? Updates here get released pretty slowly, This is such a waste of valuable developer time.


    Link to your favourite charities, possibly even with a referral link for tracking (not by user), and list the benefits of donating, along with the good heart feelings.

    I'm really not sure why RL donating is making its way into the game.

    Beerstein [1322136]

    Why do it at all? Because Ched is in a position to influence people, in a position to incentivize people and because he maybe sees that as having a responsibility to act to make the world a better place.

    Because he's not a prick like Elon Musk that doesn't understand that his gains by exploiting others obligates him to help humanity but instead is a self-abdorbed douchebag.

    Honestly if you're in a position to influence for good, wouldn't you want to? It amazes me how many people don't understand why Ched would want to help people.

    CHINGADERA [2270005]

    I hear you bro, I see you. You're a passionate person.

    I believe you mentioned it in one of your posts, if it wasn't you here's to that person, "the vast majority are selfish people and need a reason to give to others." I agree with this wholeheartedly, I've worked in middle to upper management for a long time and everyone is extremely selfish and only really want to accomplish the job with the most benefit to themselves.

    It's a vicious cycle for humans and it will persist until the blessed meteor comes. I digress, what makes you so sure Ched is not a prick? Finally may not have went about his post as diplomatically as possible to truly bring some engagement from Ched on the topic since he became irritated and locked the thread, but we need answers. Not just shinies for money. I have shinies, why do I want those shinies?

    We have the mouthpiece out here posting and going, dropping insults. Yada yada hostilities blah blah but no answers.

    This appears poorly put together, hastily pushed and I don't want to detract from the "work" that has been put in to this idea from Ched and Co. but if so much work was put in to the idea where's the presentation? I would expect this from a high schooler presenting. Not a for profit company looking to "help the world through the community".
    I know enough to know Cheds a good person. I say this as someone that isn't subscribing solely because AB+ bloodbags actively f**k over new players. Sure there's plenty that bugs me but even I have seen enough to know he cares about the game, the players, and others in general. There are signs if you look for them between his staffing, his own donation efforts that aren't publicized (sorry Ched, some of us are well aware) the way he's chosen to re-invest into the game and stuff he says even if he isn't great with people sometimes.

    You don't have to take my word for it, it is what it is that's just my personal stance. As for how he presented it, I suspect this is another one of Cheds quirks, he demands committee go through the shitty ass forum suggestion system instead of dropping it right into the committee (unless relevant) and chose to hold himself to the same standards here without dropping a full on professional presentation. In retrospect maybe he feels it was a mistake which is why he closed it and said it'd be presented better next time.

    He's also had experience only running Torn since being a teenager so doesn't have practical presentation experience the way someone like LT_Wolf would for example, so yeah you're probably not gonna get your standard presentation. He can probably do at least a decent job but it's likely that the way he presented it was again intentional as he tried to put himself among rather than above the community. He also probably and clearly incorrectly assumed that others would understand the basics of charitable donations a bit better.

    TL;DR Shit happens but there's not really a good reason for people to keep going for the throat here IMO and I say this as someone that doesn't donate solely because part of the game design bothers me that much.
    Last edited by Beerstein on 23:23:09 - 22/11/22

     

    • Zapi [2414001]
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    Posted on 23:20:21 - 22/11/22 (1 year ago)
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    This thread is on a whole new level of clusterf**k shit posting.
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