Jumping vs Energy training (with data and plots!) | Tutorials …

Jumping vs Energy training (with data and plots!)

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    • Omanpx [1906686]
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    Thread created on 14:56:57 - 05/09/22 (4 years ago)
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    Last replied 17:36:41 - 16/09/26 (1 month ago)
    You can skip the text and go straight to the TLDR sections to see a summary of the results. My results mostly agree with the idea that Jumping is better up to ~200k stats, then switching to energy-based training is more effective. All of the data is simulated using the new Gym gains formula with stat cap removed.

    The recent changes to gym gains have brought new attention to training in general. As a returning Torn resident after an extended break, i have been wondering what is the best training method for me to grow fast to be able to participate in Ranked Wars and fun daily Torn activities (like mugging and bounty hunting). An issue is that there are so many ways to train and so many threads claiming to describe the best method, one can easily get confused. As a data-driven person, i decided to compare these methods for myself and pick what’s best for me. In this post, i will share my findings which will hopefully help you decide on how to train.

    A huge shoutout goes to Vladar et al. for their work in deciphering the gym training formula, without which none of this could have been possible. If you want to play around and test things for yourself (or find and point out the mistakes i made here :P), here is a link to the R code to reproduce these calculations. If you don’t like looking at lines of code, i have also created an interactive Gym Gains Calculator (once again based on Vladar’s work), which also includes a tool to estimate gains over a time period, or the time it would take you to reach a certain goal using a defined training method- Torn-UI.

    The Tests

    Here is our average Joe with no life outside of Torn and no concern for his health:
    - Subscriber status (150 base E, 720 natural daily E)
    - Living in PI without yacht (4525 base happy, 2% gains bonus)
    - Sleep is for the weak, can train 24/7
    - No additional Job, Faction, Education or Book bonus
    - Using refills daily (+150 E daily)
    - All trains are done on Dex (just because) in George's gym (10 E per train)
    - Training is done for 60 days consistently (as many trains as cooldowns allow)
    - All training is simulated with 4 different starting stat values: 10k, 300k, 5mil, 100mil

    Here are the Jump types included in the analysis along with some reasoning how and why some choices were made.

    Classic Happy jump
    4x Xanax + 5x EDVD + Ecstasy + Refill = 32h CD (one train every 1.5 days)
    - Energy: 1000
    - Happy: 34050
    - Cost per train: ~22mil
    - Number of trains: 40
    - Total cost: 880mil

    Classic Happy jump: Adult Novelties
    * Double happy from EDVDs
    4x Xanax + 5x EDVD + Ecstasy + Refill = 32h CD (one train every 1.5 days)
    - Energy: 1150
    - Happy: 59050
    - Cost per train: ~22mil
    - Number of trains: 40
    - Total cost: 880mil

    Single choco jump
    1x Xanax + 48x Big Boxes of Chocolate + Ecstasy + Refill = 24h CD (one train per day)
    - Energy: 550
    - Happy: 12410
    - Cost per train: ~2.4mil
    - Number of trains: 60
    - Total cost: 144mil

    Half choco jump
    1x Xanax + 24x Big Boxes of Chocolate + Ecstasy + Refill(*) = 12h CD (two trains per day)
    * Since you can refill energy with points only once per day, i will split the energy gain over both jumps
    - Energy: 475
    - Happy: 10730
    - Cost per train: ~1mil + daily refill
    - Number of trains: 120
    - Total cost: 120mil + 60x Refill = 188mil

    Energy training
    Energy training is very hard to put into exact formulas, because there are many ways to go about it.
    You can waste a bit of E regen and time Xanax with max E for optimal Happy, you can ignore Happy and just spam E on cooldown, you can include FHCs in your ration to get even more E, etc. I will not even consider the can of worms that is E cans here (hehe, see what i did there?).

    Energy training: 3x Xanax
    * For simplicity, let's say you train every 5 hours for natural regen + one refill and split the xanax gains evenly
    3x Xanax + 750 natural regen + 150 refill = 6 trains per day
    - Energy: 270 (average)
    - Happy: 4525
    - Cost per train: ~600k
    - Number of trains: 360
    - Total cost: 216mil

    Energy training: 2x Xanax (more chill approach)
    * For simplicity, let's say you train every 5 hours for natural regen + one refill and split the xanax gains evenly
    2x Xanax + 750 natural regen + 150 refill = 6 trains per day
    - Energy: 230 (average)
    - Happy: 4525
    - Cost per train: ~470k
    - Number of trains: 360
    - Total cost: 170mil

    Energy training: FHC (extreme case)
    * In this case, we split the E gain from FHCs over all 6 trains, but ignore the happy gain
    If you are using FHCs for training, the extra amount of happy is pretty much pointless at this point.
    3x Xanax + 720 natural regen + 4x FHC + 150 refill = 6 trains per day
    - Energy: 370 (average)
    - Happy: 4525
    - Cost per train: ~10.6mil
    - Number of trains: 360
    - Total cost: 3.8bil

    The Results

    Energy training with FHC is clearly providing the largest gains, followed by the other two Energy training methods. Surprisingly, the higher your starting stat is, the more viable Half Choco jumping becomes, even passing Happy jumping at some point.



    Stat gains after 60 days of consistent training with different starting stat values.

    While FHC training looks nice, it is an extreme scenario for this thread, so let’s look at the other methods without the FHC training:



    Stat gains after 60 days of consistent training with different starting stat values. FHC training excluded for clarity.

    Without the expensive FHC method cluttering our results, we can clearly see that if you start Jumping early and do it consistently, Happy jumps will provide you the fastest growth up to a certain point (eventually Energy training will catch up regardless). However, if you are starting out with a decently high stat already (300k+), Jump training is actually not that great and over the 60 days of training, Energy training methods are the clear winners. When we reach the millions, the gap between Energy training and Jump training grows wider and is pretty evident. Interestingly, Half Choco jump takes third place and even outperforms the buffed up Happy jumps! This actually becomes less surprising, when we look at how gains depend on Happy vs Energy at different starting points.


    Gains after simulating training using different methods for a fixed duration (the time it takes to finish a Happy jump). Rectangle highlights the sweetspot to switch from Jumps to Energy based training. Red dot shows where Half choco jumps surpass Happy jumps.

    If we simulate training over a fixed time period (the time it takes to do a happy jump in this case) using the most practical methods, we can try and determine the exact moment when Energy outweighs Happy. Switching from Jump training to Energy based training is best around 250-400k stat. If you insist on jumping, then Half-Choco jumps become more efficient at around 1.2mil stat. Only exception is if you are working in an AN company - in that case, Happy jumping offers the best gains up to ~900k stat.

    TLDR: If you are just starting out, Jumping is a great way to reach the level where pure energy training is better. Value of Happy is linear, while gains from additional Energy spent are almost exponential. If your stats are close to 200k, you should consider dropping jumps and focus on energy training instead. To get even more gains, use the free booster cooldown for E items (Cans or FHC).
    Or just drink beer and do crimes :)

    Short note on value

    Naturally, people might have different goals and different resources. Looking at the value of each method (stat % gained per $ spent), we see an interesting image:


    Gains and Value (% gain per $ spent) for each training after 60 days. Value is multiplied by 1 billion to bring to scale (actual values not shown).

    FHC energy training provides best gains, but is absurdly expensive. Best value option is to do 3 or 2 Xanax per day training if your stat is at least 250k. Jumping is a great way to grow early on, before you reach the critical threshold of 250k. Happy jumping is faster than Half Choco jumps, but not by that much when you factor in the cost.

    TLDR: Do Half Choco jumps up to ~200k stat value, then switch to pure energy training (at least 2 Xanax/day). This provides the best bang-for-your-buck and allows for maximum flexibility in terms of timing your trains.

    Links and resources:
    Vladar’s thread
    Happy jump guide
    Choco jump guide
    for the code (didn’t want to mix work and freetime in github, sorry)
    Torn-UI (self-plug)

    If you have any questions, suggestions or see some obvious glaring errors, you are more than welcome to point them out so i can fix them and update the results. I know that this thread does not introduce any ground breaking insights, i just thought it would be nice to have these things clearly put in one place with actual data (even though simulated) backing it up.

    Omanpx
    Last edited by Omanpx on 11:42:47 - 12/12/22 (3 years ago)

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    • TRAPBILLIEJEAN [2631792]
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    Posted on 15:04:36 - 05/09/22 (4 years ago)
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    reserved
    • Qfiffle [2557282]
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    Posted on 05:15:01 - 07/09/22 (4 years ago)
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    That's great! I did these calculations when I was still at the "should I be happy jumping" stage, and there's one more option that you didn't include, but that quickly outpaces what you call half and full choco-jumps. That's choco-jumps without stacking any xanax. So just on a full e bar plus refill for 300e total, 24 or 48 hours (depending on faction) worth of big boxes of chocolates and an ecstasy.

    These are great for the stage where the lost e from sitting on xanax e for 6-8 hours and not regenerating would have given you more gains than the extra happy on that 250e would, but where the just over half a xanax you miss out on by taking an ecstasy is still less gains than doubling your choc happy gives. I've lost my notes/script from the time but I seem to recall it was somewhere in around the 80k-150k in a stat mark that this was the case.

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    • iron [2428902]
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    Posted on 07:17:21 - 07/09/22 (4 years ago)
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    Great! Any data on how that stacks up with 99k happy jump?
    • Omanpx [1906686]
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    Posted on 07:29:11 - 07/09/22 (4 years ago)
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    Hmm, would need to define how often a 99k jump is possible, but i would expect something like this: 99k jump is much better at lower stats, maybe up to a few hundred k, but later on energy wins anyway. Half choco jumps actually win over happy jumps because of this reason - doing them spends more e over the same time period, and e outweights happy at that point. 99k jumps would be very sparse, so not a good choice to rely on them consistently imo. Just guessing for now though :)
    Last edited by Omanpx on 07:29:45 - 07/09/22 (4 years ago)

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    • KraytLord09 [2215256]
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    Posted on 16:33:57 - 24/09/22 (4 years ago)
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    Bump. Good info, man. Can i get you to make graphs of the 250m and 500m mark? Still kind of interested to see how the happy still affects a user at higher stats.
    • Omanpx [1906686]
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    Posted on 21:32:01 - 24/09/22 (4 years ago)
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    KraytLord09 [2215256]

    Bump. Good info, man. Can i get you to make graphs of the 250m and 500m mark? Still kind of interested to see how the happy still affects a user at higher stats.
    Thanks. Here are some of the graphs for the stats you wanted, but to be fair, after ~100mil everything looks pretty much the same. At that point, main facto becomes energy spent during the day and happy has little to no effect. That's why Half-choco jumps perform so well - their overall energy spent is higher than HJ or Full choco.


    Without the FHC jumps:



    Stats gained during the same period (the time it takes to do 1 HJ) with starting stat value on the X axis.



    You can see that at this stage, the gain is almost linear and depends almost entirely on energy spent. If you want to play around with different scenarios yourself, try the Gains goal estimator in Torn-UI (you might need to get creative to simulate some stuff, like multiple jumps a day :)).

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    • Omanpx [1906686]
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    Posted on 10:11:27 - 04/10/22 (4 years ago)
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    Bump

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    • PoloMulder [2809520]
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    Posted on 13:23:05 - 05/10/22 (4 years ago)
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    Help a noob out here, what would an energy training with 2, or 3 xan look like in a daily schedule?

    like in the morning begin with max energy, pop a xan, train, refill and train. 6-8 hour drug cd.

    let energy refill nat. And train

    let energie refill nat., pop xan and train?
    • GraceWatson [2199610]
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    Posted on 13:59:41 - 05/10/22 (4 years ago)
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    PoloMulder [2809520]

    Help a noob out here, what would an energy training with 2, or 3 xan look like in a daily schedule? like in the morning begin with max energy, pop a xan, train, refill and train. 6-8 hour drug cd. let energy refill nat. And train let energie refill nat., pop xan and train?
    Yeah, just like that. One advice though, train your natural e, refill, train again THEN take your Xanax. Just to make sure you don't loose your e cause of OD
    • Catarchy [2632824]
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    Posted on 23:13:09 - 06/10/22 (4 years ago)
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    great guide
    • Gunsmith [2155255]
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    Posted on 16:38:38 - 07/10/22 (4 years ago)
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    PoloMulder [2809520]

    Help a noob out here, what would an energy training with 2, or 3 xan look like in a daily schedule? like in the morning begin with max energy, pop a xan, train, refill and train. 6-8 hour drug cd. let energy refill nat. And train let energie refill nat., pop xan and train?

    GraceWatson [2199610]

    Yeah, just like that. One advice though, train your natural e, refill, train again THEN take your Xanax. Just to make sure you don't loose your e cause of OD
    I’ve always wondered what’s worth in this scenario, as can does give bonus happy at the cost of the OD chance
    • WanderingOwl97 [2667240]
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    Posted on 18:41:11 - 07/10/22 (4 years ago)
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    This is a great guide especially since I have just came back from a year away from Torn. My stats are pretty low and I was wondering what was more affective for my income/stats/age. Now I don't have to wonder! :)
    • Omanpx [1906686]
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    Posted on 09:56:15 - 15/10/22 (4 years ago)
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    As some people noted, these calculations do not take into account special events and extreme cases, like poison mistletoe steals. I am aware of that, but the guide was intended to help determine what training strategy to use on a daily basis - days like caffeine con are exceptions and you should utilize them for maximum potential.

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    • Omanpx [1906686]
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    Posted on 14:48:42 - 18/10/22 (4 years ago)
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    Another important thing i think i forgot to point out - if you stick to energy training instead of jumping, you will unlock new gyms WAY faster. This will lead to a lot more gains in the long run, making jumps mostly useful for a quick catch up or boost when starting out.

    Torn is a marathon, so long term goals should always be your focus, therefore i highly recommend switching to energy training as soon as you can.

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    • Opalsocks [2768284]
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    Posted on 01:45:50 - 19/10/22 (4 years ago)
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    Omanpx [1906686]

    Hmm, would need to define how often a 99k jump is possible, but i would expect something like this: 99k jump is much better at lower stats, maybe up to a few hundred k, but later on energy wins anyway. Half choco jumps actually win over happy jumps because of this reason - doing them spends more e over the same time period, and e outweights happy at that point. 99k jumps would be very sparse, so not a good choice to rely on them consistently imo. Just guessing for now though :)
    Would it be possible to request the graphs with the 99k jumps included assuming they could be done every 2 days? Assuming 4 fhcs used, refill, and 1k stack?
    • Omanpx [1906686]
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    Posted on 08:14:38 - 23/10/22 (4 years ago)
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    Omanpx [1906686]

    Hmm, would need to define how often a 99k jump is possible, but i would expect something like this: 99k jump is much better at lower stats, maybe up to a few hundred k, but later on energy wins anyway. Half choco jumps actually win over happy jumps because of this reason - doing them spends more e over the same time period, and e outweights happy at that point. 99k jumps would be very sparse, so not a good choice to rely on them consistently imo. Just guessing for now though :)

    Opalsocks [2768284]

    Would it be possible to request the graphs with the 99k jumps included assuming they could be done every 2 days? Assuming 4 fhcs used, refill, and 1k stack?
    Sorry for the late response, but i think this post will help answer your question :)

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    • Omanpx [1906686]
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    Posted on 16:50:38 - 29/10/22 (4 years ago)
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    Bump to get back into training mood before Halloween ends!

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    • VoidEater [2799205]
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    Posted on 22:36:16 - 05/11/22 (3 years ago)
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    Nice one man, usefull info, good job!

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    • SPGoding [2826456]
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    Posted on 07:31:00 - 06/11/22 (3 years ago)
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    Omanpx [1906686]

    Hmm, would need to define how often a 99k jump is possible, but i would expect something like this: 99k jump is much better at lower stats, maybe up to a few hundred k, but later on energy wins anyway. Half choco jumps actually win over happy jumps because of this reason - doing them spends more e over the same time period, and e outweights happy at that point. 99k jumps would be very sparse, so not a good choice to rely on them consistently imo. Just guessing for now though :)

    Opalsocks [2768284]

    Would it be possible to request the graphs with the 99k jumps included assuming they could be done every 2 days? Assuming 4 fhcs used, refill, and 1k stack?
    So I've sent this graph to opal via discord, but if anyone is curious, at ~1.4m you should stop 99k jump + fhc
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