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Star Wars - Who's the strongest?
  • TCF MrBateman [1775325]MrBateman [1775325]
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    Thread created on 18:23:53 - 29/07/14 (4 month ago)
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    Last replied 20:21:03 - 08/08/14 (4 month ago)

    As the title suggests this is a discussion about the strongest being in Star Wars. To null things down im sticking to the new canon set by Lucasfilms, so please no EU material. Sorry ğ

    In my personal opinion I believe the strongest is Mace Windu, because he single handedly had the Emperor at his disposal. Where as Yoda did not.

    Last edited by MrBateman on 18:25:00 - 29/07/14
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    Posted to on 23:04:18 - 31/07/14 (4 month ago)
    Lonestar
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    Posted to on 07:34:56 - 01/08/14 (4 month ago)
    You called??.
  • LS meninblack123 [1615348]meninblack123 [1615348]
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    Posted to on 23:20:29 - 03/08/14 (4 month ago)
    ^^^hahaha R+ that
  •   marduke [426197]marduke [426197]
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    Posted to on 23:31:19 - 03/08/14 (4 month ago)

    MrBateman [1775325]

    As the title suggests this is a discussion about the strongest being in Star Wars. To null things down im sticking to the new canon set by Lucasfilms, so please no EU material. Sorry ğ

    In my personal opinion I believe the strongest is Mace Windu, because he single handedly had the Emperor at his disposal. Where as Yoda did not.

    Are we going by skill with light-saber, or force powers/midichlorians?  Also, do the animated series count as EU?  Just wondering since I think lucusfilms had at least some input on the stuff.  Plus there's a new series coming to one of the disney channels & disney having bought lucasfilms, so idk if that counts.  Not to mention there's that animated movie that takes place before the 3d/cgi clonewars series not 100% sure how that one falls either.

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    Posted to on 10:19:34 - 04/08/14 (4 month ago)
    The 3D clone wars is part of the new canon and Rebels will be as well. I'm going by everything that makes them strong and could they defeat so and so because they are the strongest.
  •   marduke [426197]marduke [426197]
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    Posted to on 16:05:06 - 04/08/14 (4 month ago)
     

    MrBateman [1775325]

    The 3D clone wars is part of the new canon and Rebels will be as well. I'm going by everything that makes them strong and could they defeat so and so because they are the strongest.


    Ok, well... I'd guess Anakin skywalker/darth vader.  In the cannon stuff he: had a higher midichlorian count than yoda, he was a clone-wars general that lead several key decisive victories, blew up a trade-federation ship before hitting puberty/around 10, survived being burned by lava, has a bunch of cybernetic augmentations to physical abilities post burn and a few pre-burn, is widely believe to be 'the chosen one'/one prophcised to bring balance to the force, killed the emporer/sith lord.

    The expanded universe material such as the videogames make him seem even stronger, but don't aren't allowed and I haven't read any of the novels.  The chosen thing is debatable I will admit; however, until the new movies come out and apply their 20-20 hindsight with luke founding the new jedi order(from what I've read in the star wars roleplay game by fantasy flight games), the score sheet is more towards the father than the son in terms of what they've done.

    Likewise, his defeat at the hands of Obi-wan could be a blow to his strength/power, but again debatable given the stuff that happened just moments ago, location of the fight, and some of the build up in that movie. No offense, darth beat mace and obi-wan only beat grevious (wounded by darth) by using a blaster instead of lightsaber so grevious wasn't at full health at the time for that fight.  Finally, he did beat obi-wan in the rematch.....granted obi-wan was an old man and did a suicide by sith so I suppose that win is debatable as well, but all this combined seem to make seem like the strongest in canon in my opinion.


    Edit: I apologize for typos & grammatical errors.
    Last edited by marduke on 16:05:52 - 04/08/14
  • TCF MrBateman [1775325]MrBateman [1775325]
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    Posted to on 19:45:33 - 04/08/14 (4 month ago)
    Anakin didn't defeat Mace! He bloody cut off his arm while he was about to slay one of the galaxies strongest, and even with that the Emperor zapped him out the window (Deserved a better death)

    And Darth Vader didn't defeat Obi, he knew he would be stronger with the force if he passed on. Fair enough tho I think Vader could have beat him in a fair fight, if Obi-Wan put 100% in.

    George Lucas has stated that Anakin is the chosen one not Luke so that isn't debatable no matter what.
    Last edited by MrBateman on 19:51:49 - 04/08/14
  •   marduke [426197]marduke [426197]
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    Posted to on 23:44:29 - 04/08/14 (4 month ago)

    MrBateman [1775325]

    Anakin didn't defeat Mace! He bloody cut off his arm while he was about to slay one of the galaxies strongest, and even with that the Emperor zapped him out the window (Deserved a better death)

    And Darth Vader didn't defeat Obi, he knew he would be stronger with the force if he passed on. Fair enough tho I think Vader could have beat him in a fair fight, if Obi-Wan put 100% in.

    George Lucas has stated that Anakin is the chosen one not Luke so that isn't debatable no matter what.


    Lol, ok and granted Mace's death could've been better.  Still, a bit surprised that what was it...'order 66'? was so effective given how the generals were so proficient with light-sabers and in tune with the force.  I think they should've been able to sense that their troops would turn on them with enough of a heads up to kill most troopers in the room and flee for at least a good chunk of them.

    Ok, I concede that Anakin isn't the chosen one if Lucas says so.  Still, given the track record of accomplishments between father & son it seems kinda odd.  I mean, robot chicken's star wars specials kinda poked fun at this with an alt. reason for why darth vader turned on the emperor.  It was mostly what's going on in each character's mind, but its close enough.  The EU material 'The Force Unleashed' seemed like a nice explanation to the relationship between darth and the emperor in that darth was trying to kill him instead of waiting for his dying son to ask nicely for his help.

    One joke that's been made is how messed up or useless the force*the near galaxy-spanning collective consciousness of the midicholorians* is.  The jedi with a thousand + years couldn't sense 1 Machiavellian senator from Naboo could use the force, trained in the ways of the sith, and was working to both consolidate power and undermine the order for decades.  Nor could the force save the vast majority of jedi at the end of the clone wars.  I'm not sure if they gave moral support or actual help in blowing up the 1st death-star which had already destroyed an entire planet.... And all that bad stuff happened to the guys who were supposedly using the force correctly/as intended & those same(though slightly modified) ideals will be used AGAIN in the new jedi order that luke founds so kinda makes me wonder how was it so messed up pre-clonewars that those microbial lifeforms had to kill off or let most of their hosts die in such a way?  Granted so much light, but after all of that the effect is back at square one but with a lower population count.

    Also, slight chicken or the egg scenario, were there star-wars novels that before the movies that got turned into the original movies, or was it script which became novelizations and then then entire EU material?

  • TCF MrBateman [1775325]MrBateman [1775325]
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    Posted to on 15:19:24 - 05/08/14 (4 month ago)

    No there were no novels before the films, but that doesn't matter. I said no EU related stuff because it alienates some fans and by GOD, we could debate about so much stuff and get side tracked.

    There's a prequel novel to Star Wars Rebels which is part of the new canon and I'm looking forward to reading it, cause all I'm saying iis if this new guy (Kanan Jarrus) can survive Order 66. And keep himself hidden from the force he must be pretty skilled.

    Last edited by MrBateman on 15:27:06 - 05/08/14
  •   marduke [426197]marduke [426197]
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    Posted to on 20:15:29 - 05/08/14 (4 month ago)

    MrBateman [1775325]

    No there were no novels before the films, but that doesn't matter. I said no EU related stuff because it alienates some fans and by GOD, we could debate about so much stuff and get side tracked.

    There's a prequel novel to Star Wars Rebels which is part of the new canon and I'm looking forward to reading it, cause all I'm saying iis if this new guy (Kanan Jarrus) can survive Order 66. And keep himself hidden from the force he must be pretty skilled.

     Cool, I haven't read any of the novels, but might start if I get all the Fantasy Flight table-top rpg star-wars books since there's so much stuff in the star wars universe and keeping track of it all.

    Out of curiosity, what of the 1980's tv series & the holiday special?  I'm pretty sure Ewoks, Droids, and the holiday special aren't canon but just want to make sure.

  • TCF MrBateman [1775325]MrBateman [1775325]
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    Posted to on 13:26:46 - 06/08/14 (4 month ago)
    Nope non of it is canon, just go on star wars.com they have all the canon there. The films, the clone wars, rebels and all future books and comics released (star wars legends will continue in the EU)
  •   marduke [426197]marduke [426197]
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    Posted to on 17:27:58 - 06/08/14 (4 month ago)

    MrBateman [1775325]

    Nope non of it is canon, just go on star wars.com they have all the canon there. The films, the clone wars, rebels and all future books and comics released (star wars legends will continue in the EU)

     Ok, thanks for the reference link for both myself and other readers of this thread.  I hope others partake in this discussion soon. lol.

  • TCF MrBateman [1775325]MrBateman [1775325]
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    Posted to on 18:02:03 - 06/08/14 (4 month ago)
    New Canon books http://www.scifinow.co.uk/news/star-wars-episode-vi-new-canon-books-revealed/
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    Posted to on 18:05:06 - 06/08/14 (4 month ago)

    MrBateman [1775325]

    New Canon books http://www.scifinow.co.uk/news/star-wars-episode-vi-new-canon-books-revealed/

     

    thanks again lol :)

  • True Snake-Jailbird [1575776]Snake-Jailbird [1575776]
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    Posted to on 01:29:20 - 08/08/14 (4 month ago)
    The Emperor allowed Mace to beat him, remember The Emperor defeated Yoda too. I'd probably say the Emperor or Anakin/Vader is the strongest. Anakin is the chosen one, he did bring balance to the force through his redemption of killing the Emperor and saving the last Jedi. I'd also say Darth Maul is probably one of the best lightsaber users, he killed Qui-gon and held of both Qui-gon and Obi-Wan, he also died in a pretty BS way, would have much preferred him as the Sith Lord until Episode III where Anakin would then take his place. I like Christopher Lee but didn't like Count Dooku.
     
    Darth Maul revealing his double lightsaber blew my mind when I was it and was the first villian I ever loved.
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    Posted to on 02:34:02 - 08/08/14 (4 month ago)

    Victarion [1575776]

    The Emperor allowed Mace to beat him, remember The Emperor defeated Yoda too. I'd probably say the Emperor or Anakin/Vader is the strongest. Anakin is the chosen one, he did bring balance to the force through his redemption of killing the Emperor and saving the last Jedi. I'd also say Darth Maul is probably one of the best lightsaber users, he killed Qui-gon and held of both Qui-gon and Obi-Wan, he also died in a pretty BS way, would have much preferred him as the Sith Lord until Episode III where Anakin would then take his place. I like Christopher Lee but didn't like Count Dooku.

     
    Darth Maul revealing his double lightsaber blew my mind when I was it and was the first villian I ever loved.

     I don't know about the emperor allowing Mace to beat him.  In the movies it sounded like the strength of the jedi/force users were measured by different criteria so that while specialists were common as would be generalists, finding someone who could max out the stats in more than one area, so to speak, would be quite rare.  As a result, it could be argued that Mace was stronger than the emperor in terms of skill with a lightsaber, he was weak than the emperor when it came to using the force as a weapon in combat.

    This brings me to wanting to call b.s. a little bit with yoda's skill.  To be fair we never see him use his lightsaber until his fight, and the original movies had him nearly a thousand years old.  That being said, the timeline would have yoda at around 850 or so during the clone wars/fall of the jedi.  He's never shown to be that althletic in earlier movies until that fight scene and then he suddenly jumps all over the place.  Bio-mechanically it doesn't make sense, especially given the aging processes of most forms of life on earth.  Even if he had a possible force assist, the reflexes seemed too good for too long.  I could understand him being harder to hit since his lightsaber would cover more and he'd be a smaller target, I can understand him using his skill with the force as a counter to the sith's mastery of the force, but turning him from a strong defensive strategist character to such an offensive one in combat all at once stretches my suspension of disbelief too far.

  • True Snake-Jailbird [1575776]Snake-Jailbird [1575776]
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    Posted to on 12:34:20 - 08/08/14 (4 month ago)
    The Emperor allowed Mace to defeat him because he knew Mace would want to kill him there and then. With Anakin being sympathetic towards the Emperor he knew that Anakin wouldn't let him and it was this moment that anakin was set up to betray the jedi's and take his place as Darth Vader. Even right before their fight, The Emperor dispatches three Jedi masters with ease.
    Last edited by Snake-Jailbird on 12:35:56 - 08/08/14
  •   marduke [426197]marduke [426197]
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    Posted to on 20:21:03 - 08/08/14 (4 month ago)

    Victarion [1575776]

    The Emperor allowed Mace to defeat him because he knew Mace would want to kill him there and then. With Anakin being sympathetic towards the Emperor he knew that Anakin wouldn't let him and it was this moment that anakin was set up to betray the jedi's and take his place as Darth Vader. Even right before their fight, The Emperor dispatches three Jedi masters with ease.

     Still, it seems like he'd have to know they'd send anakin for this to work.  For the entire clone-wars saga I can see him playing both sides of the coin because he'd have so much intelligence and either way he'd win on the government political level.  However, the jedi are a more personal level, their movements more random, chaotic, and in general less well known.  It's hard to predict how many jedi will be sent to deal with something, the skill/power of each jedi, and to be honest it kinda stretches belief for the emperor being on both sides.  I mean, I can believe it, its just that with all the media attention around such a political position, all the security staff watching his moves to make sure he stays alive, a large or powerful contingent of jedi trying to find out about him, that he somehow manages to: get the crystals for lightsaber without jedi noticing, master the force to such a high level, acquire and maintain such skill with a lightsaber, and do both hologram and personal meetings with separatist generals/sith.  Oh, and train an apprentice or two.  All with no one, not even a paparazzi tabloid story finding out.  If his skill had deteriorated due to lack of practice, it makes it easier for him to keep his cover.  If he kept practicing shouldn't the guards go 'hey that sounds like a lightsaber in there' kind of concern.

    Anyway, throwing the fight just seems harder for me to believe than actually lose the fight.  To be fair, Mace probably should've just killed him instead of talking or letting him talk and claim it was the heat of battle.