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Thread created on Mon Apr 22, 2013 04:25:24
Last replied to on Mon Apr 29, 2013 14:51:34
Wanted to know what the citizens of Torn thoughts are regarding betting and faction wars?

Official of course, use a trusted member preferably a member off staff as the middle man to hold both factions wager and watch over the terms if needed, not by any means suggesting opening up a faction war like a sporting event you'd bet on in the bookie a simple one off bet of say.. 5bn cash from both faction leaders victor takes all.

As a faction leader would you be interested to do the above with an upcoming war?
As a member off staff, would you be willing too take the role of middleman for a faction bet?
As a citizen what are your thought on the above, would you be interested?

I just think personally it would make warring much more interesting, some people have probably already done this, some have probably already done this then wimped out when they lost -.-
I think id put a lot more effort into a war if i knew there was a substantial amount of my friends money at stake, hell some factions might all chip in and be payed out accordingly if they win that would get them working.

Your thoughts?

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CircleJerk
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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 05:46:34
staff would be overwhelmed with people making like 2m wars and suff it wouldnt be worth their time! they wouldnt be able to keep up


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GirlFriday

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 06:02:53
It would have to be coded into the game. I think it would be cool though.

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Cypher

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 07:28:39
This has already been suggested, but staff said NO!, because it could be fixed.

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Alex-

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 07:45:20
External betting on factions could be fixed, but internal betting could work as it's their cash on the line.

For substantial bets if factions needed a staffer i don't mind holding the pot.

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 07:45:49
How can this be fixed? lol a faction is going to throw the war so they loose their bet?

It's not faction vs faction where others can bet on the war.. it's leader vs leader 1 off bet on the war winner takes all

Why on earth would a leader fix the bet so they loose?

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Amn3sia

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 08:47:54
they fix it so they can win a lot of money..

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 09:08:21
By Brad [1605430]
How can this be fixed? lol a faction is going to throw the war so they loose their bet?

It's not faction vs faction where others can bet on the war.. it's leader vs leader 1 off bet on the war winner takes all

Why on earth would a leader fix the bet so they loose?


As Alex pointed out when it's there are external bets of high sums going on (people who are not in the faction and not participants of the war betting on the outcome of the war), it could be fixed, but if there are only internal bets (which you seem to be suggesting) are not likely to be fixed.

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1605430
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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:38:12
My post was directed at Nova, i didn't actually see Alex post till now, he posted as i was writing that reply, I know how/why it wouldn't work with external parties betting that's why I'm not suggesting that.

not by any means suggesting opening up a faction war like a sporting event you'd bet on in the bookie a simple one off bet


I thought i made it quite clear that I'm not suggesting for others to bet on the outcome of the war just leader vs leader betting with a trusted third party to make sure it's not just "yeah okay if you win I'll give you 1bn!" /faction looses / no cash sent -.- ... this way the wagers are already sent out and the trusted member i.e a member off staff i.e Alex for instance sends the victor their winnings.

Thanks for the reply btw Alex! it's nice to know there's alteast one staff0r who would be willing too

I doubt staff would get flooded with bets because they can just say no... and it would be nice if say 5 staff members said they would be willing to have a list of them with their minimum betting requirement or say one only does HoF wars, then if a leader is looking for a trusted third party they know who to ask.

It's just a thought, i don't see anyway this could be fixed by any team because as i said why on earth would a leader fix the bet so they loose.

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Baka

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:59:08
Im sure this happened once,a bet was available at the official bookies ,cant remember the two factions but the plug got pulled because of rumours of fixing

im sure that happened

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Bullzeye

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 13:52:34
i remember they tried this, made it bets in the bookies, but it didnt work out

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 14:12:18
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_Cynic_

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 14:30:39
this will not work because its so hard to stick to terms when there are 100 members in a faction!
How do you ensure every member has equipped the right faction. What if someone has been away for a few weeks and doesnt know?

How do you stop changes during the war such as people leaving? (or getting fedded)

Way to many variables to take into account.

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 14:40:56
By _Cynic_ [206537]
this will not work because its so hard to stick to terms when there are 100 members in a faction!
How do you ensure every member has equipped the right faction. What if someone has been away for a few weeks and doesnt know?

How do you stop changes during the war such as people leaving? (or getting fedded)

Way to many variables to take into account.


That's just picking at things that could go wrong with any termed war, and would 100% be valid points if this was for termed wars only, which it is not, it's a bit like saying what happens if one leader decides to kick all their members and fly overseas and wait for the war to time out, there was so winner/looser in the "war" but i think it's obvious/fair to say they lost ...

If one faction don't follow the agreed terms they loose, all it means is don't wager a termed war if your faction isn't going to cooperate, same with any termed war in general, if someone is inactive and don't hear about it straight away, well won't there be an active faction chat going where they can pop their head in and say hi? IRC / faction forum thread, little issues that occur to any termed war.
Not saying the third party player has to referee the war(s) but I'm sure like anyone they can pass good judgement on if one side isn't playing by the rules

Last Edited: Mon Apr 22, 2013 14:47:45
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Noc

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 14:52:09
id not trust anyone even staff now that scamming is legal esp alex

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_Cynic_

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 15:12:37
By Brad [1605430]
By _Cynic_ [206537]
this will not work because its so hard to stick to terms when there are 100 members in a faction!
How do you ensure every member has equipped the right faction. What if someone has been away for a few weeks and doesnt know?

How do you stop changes during the war such as people leaving? (or getting fedded)

Way to many variables to take into account.


That's just picking at things that could go wrong with any termed war, and would 100% be valid points if this was for termed wars only, which it is not, it's a bit like saying what happens if one leader decides to kick all their members and fly overseas and wait for the war to time out, there was so winner/looser in the "war" but i think it's obvious/fair to say they lost ...

If one faction don't follow the agreed terms they loose, all it means is don't wager a termed war if your faction isn't going to cooperate, same with any termed war in general, if someone is inactive and don't hear about it straight away, well won't there be an active faction chat going where they can pop their head in and say hi? IRC / faction forum thread, little issues that occur to any termed war.
Not saying the third party player has to referee the war(s) but I'm sure like anyone they can pass good judgement on if one side isn't playing by the rules


I have yet to see one termed war, where there has not been arguments about players breaking terms. Its hardly picking at things.
Its not about factions not cooperating, its about things that are beyond the ability of a leader to control. Say you arrange a termed war, everyone is informed, but Player A becomes inactive just before it starts and doesnt have time to unequip or equip a particular weapon. (People do have lives outside Torn!).
Suddenly you have lost before the event has even started! and nothing you can do about it.

And what happens if like in most wars there are people on both sides who have broken the terms? Every war would end a draw!

The only way betting would work is untermed wars.


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DB_farid

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 15:47:40
Well cynic if you want 1 war which eneded without whining with terms. Then go look for TuS vs IBB. We had terms and well no one broke any.

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 16:20:30
By Alex- [435186]
External betting on factions could be fixed, but internal betting could work as it's their cash on the line.

For substantial bets if factions needed a staffer i don't mind holding the pot.



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JimmyJames

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 20:14:07
I would much prefer the old faction war system when you made people pay to end wars. Much better than winning a bet.


On a side note though, I never quite grasped the concept of not allowing a parimutuel bookie event on factions because of possible fixing. Factions can extort and scam each other, so who cares if they also fix a bookie event.

The one time that it was done, it was canceled because of all the possibilities of outside influence when people are betting on the outcome. Not because either faction had any plans on throwing the war.

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Hammerhead

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 20:59:35
From the one time it was tried to allow betting on faction wars.

14/04/10
2:44:13 AM You have placed a bet of $4,000,000 on BC Vulpes Vulpes Faction Id 7709. The match starts: April 17th 00:00 AM GMT.

I didn't save the event from when it got canceled and all the money returned.

The other faction in the bet was BAMF.



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Blackjack-x

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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 21:15:09
I think it would be great
specially for weaker factions

there will be a reason for them to put all their efforts rather than just giving up

a stake system where they could fight for respect and something to cover their cost
as wars can be every expensive

although there are flaws, i think this idea if taken into consideration
can be improved for suitability

would like to see everyone give CnC and ways it can be improved rather than saying NO

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matty_h
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Posted on Mon Apr 22, 2013 23:03:25
would it need a faction memeber could it not just use a similar system to RR one faction leader invites another it takes the cash from them which the system holds once the war is over the payout is automatic

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Posted on Tue Apr 23, 2013 14:15:11
@ Blackjack-x people are saying no because for some reason even know I've tried to explain they still think I'm trying to say open a faction war like a sporting event you'd be in the bookie which i don't know how many times i have to say I'm not

That's why they're saying no, because of fixing/cheating which has nothing to do with what i'm even saying.. At least when Hammerhead posted and didn't get what the threads about he also come out with quite an awesome saved event, I'm going to try one last time to see if faction talk can understand I am NOT trying to say we should open up betting on faction wars like you would in the bookie with a sporting event, it's just a one off bet between leaders


Matty_h thank you for actually understanding maybe it's not just me.. that would be awesome a RR like system for this but of course that would have to be coded which means we'd have to wait about 5 years before it gets noticed and a further 3 years+ to actually happen, using a trusted third party is just a way to do it in the mean time

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EmMortal

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Posted on Tue Apr 23, 2013 17:57:30
The idea of 2 factions warring against each other both paying money into the pot, and which ever faction wins takes all is fair. Because i mean honestly, you wouldn't put billions of cash on the line with another faction and just lose the war if you knew it was your money on the line.

The idea of torn citizens placing bets on which faction from the war will win however i think is slightly off and probably won't happen..i mean..it could be set-up. But obviously the first idea cannot be setup unless you just want to give your money over to the other faction

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JimmyJames

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Posted on Tue Apr 23, 2013 18:31:48
I'd trust most faction leaders over a lot of staff any day. There would be no need for the middleman here.

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Hammerhead

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Posted on Tue Apr 23, 2013 18:36:53
Brad I did and do get what you are talking about. Unless you are a restart you are not old enough to remember back when scamming was illegal and a few factions did in fact try to do a wager on the outcome between the two factions leader to leader. The only terms I remember from these were the first to gain a set amount of respect from the other faction won the bet. This was also before any chain bonuses or chain limits on respect gains it was just hit the other faction as much as you could while keeping the chain going with the other 49 factions you had in the warbase.

I remember reading several of these types of threads in faction talk at the time but I can not remember if any of the wars happened maybe some of the older members can remember more.

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1605430
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Posted on Tue Apr 23, 2013 18:44:38
@EmMortal - my point exactly

@Jimmyjames - You might, but that's not to say if the bet was high enough they'd pull out at the end if they loose, also how can you not trust a member off staff, if they were to scam, as their role in the city I'm pretty sure for this case because the scam would be illgal action would be taken against the said member off staff, surly fedding and the scam money/items returned.

@Hammerhead - It just seemed from your post you thought like many others im saying about putting them in the bookie from your post "From the one time it was tried to allow betting on faction wars" followed by the saved event from the bookie that's why i was under the impression you also thought i meant about hosting betting on wars via the bookie, but thanks for the awesome info! honestly.

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JimmyJames

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Posted on Wed Apr 24, 2013 04:14:00
By Brad [1605430]
@Jimmyjames - You might, but that's not to say if the bet was high enough they'd pull out at the end if they loose, also how can you not trust a member off staff, if they were to scam, as their role in the city I'm pretty sure for this case because the scam would be illgal action would be taken against the said member off staff, surly fedding and the scam money/items returned.


Was not my intentions to turn this into a thread about staff and/or scamming, but I've never seen stuff returned after a staff member scammed people.

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g_ho

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Posted on Sat Apr 27, 2013 15:31:00
I still think, even with it faction on faction betting that it could get dirty. With $20b on the line what's to say I don't pay another faction $2b to declare to hurt their ranks and feign a level of deniability. Long time friends have screwed each other over less. And then every time you are at war and another faction jumps in for fun you're going to think it is to do with the money when sometimes it's probably not.

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Posted on Sun Apr 28, 2013 01:59:07
By Blexi [1458703]
By Brad [1605430]
How can this be fixed? lol a faction is going to throw the war so they loose their bet?

It's not faction vs faction where others can bet on the war.. it's leader vs leader 1 off bet on the war winner takes all

Why on earth would a leader fix the bet so they loose?


As Alex pointed out when it's there are external bets of high sums going on (people who are not in the faction and not participants of the war betting on the outcome of the war), it could be fixed, but if there are only internal bets (which you seem to be suggesting) are not likely to be fixed.


It can still be fixed.

Faction A and Faction B agree a wager. Each put $10 into the pot.

Fixer comes along and offers 5 Faction B newbies $1 each to lose. Faction B leader doesnt know this.

Fixer then funds Faction A wager.

Faction A win the war taking $10 profit from the bet.

Fixer pays noobs a total of $5 keeping $5 for himself plus getting his original stake back.

End result: Faction B leader gas been scammed out of $10 but his noobs profited from it as did the fixer.

Now....imagine if it was for billions instead of the chump change in my scenario.....

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Jamie
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Posted on Sun Apr 28, 2013 09:48:37
I like the idea from my time in high ranked factions this could work well

Last Edited: Sun Apr 28, 2013 09:49:49
Forum Main>>Faction Talk>> Faction war $$$ for $$$
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