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TedThomas

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Posted on Thu Oct 10, 2013 20:42:54
By CoolHandLuke [1582871]
By BraedynDarke [1778788]
I wasn't going to participate in this, but CoolHandLuke can you cite any valid scientific articles that would back stories from the Bible? If you're gonna make a statement like that you need to be able to back it up.


how about the 10 plagues for a quick example.

every plague is explainable through science and the order they happen make it more so.

heres a video that will explain it better then i could in words (smarter people then myself)

[urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQevxiAs1BA[/url]

heres 3 videos, watch if you want or dont it doesnt really matter to me.

(3 videos are part 1, part2, part 3)

another example that i just remembered is when god rained fire on sodom. Scientist have said the fire was really just a meteor shower.


Too bad that in all of documented history there isnt any evidence that it ever happened at all, even if it is scientifically plausible. You would think that the Egyptians might have thought to write down that all their 1st born children died one day. Weird huh?

And even if it did happen all you are "proving" is that it was a natural occurrence that someone decided was the work of god, when it wasnt. So really its nothing different than someone from ancient Greece saying that someone getting hit by lightning was because of Zeus.

Last Edited: Thu Oct 10, 2013 20:55:20
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Gungrave
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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 05:28:34
a friend once gave me a great answer after i asked him why little kids stop beleiving in imaginary friends to which he replied they don't its just the name of "imaginary friends" simply changes to "god and jesus"

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BraedynDarke
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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 05:33:00
By TedThomas [887131]
By CoolHandLuke [1582871]
By BraedynDarke [1778788]
I wasn't going to participate in this, but CoolHandLuke can you cite any valid scientific articles that would back stories from the Bible? If you're gonna make a statement like that you need to be able to back it up.


how about the 10 plagues for a quick example.

every plague is explainable through science and the order they happen make it more so.

heres a video that will explain it better then i could in words (smarter people then myself)

[urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQevxiAs1BA[/url]

heres 3 videos, watch if you want or dont it doesnt really matter to me.

(3 videos are part 1, part2, part 3)

another example that i just remembered is when god rained fire on sodom. Scientist have said the fire was really just a meteor shower.


Too bad that in all of documented history there isnt any evidence that it ever happened at all, even if it is scientifically plausible. You would think that the Egyptians might have thought to write down that all their 1st born children died one day. Weird huh?

And even if it did happen all you are "proving" is that it was a natural occurrence that someone decided was the work of god, when it wasnt. So really its nothing different than someone from ancient Greece saying that someone getting hit by lightning was because of Zeus.


Also where in the bible is there anything about "god" creating meteors to begin with? According to the bible, the rest of the universe simply does not exist.

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Collete

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 05:35:38
By CowsGoMoo95 [1727658]
Why do you people bash religion as the downfall of mankind? Are you that ignorant as to believe religion causes our problems? Yes there is violence because of it, but it's seriously dying out. You don't see too many holy wars any more. Only in the middle east and I can see that whole fiasco ending by the turn of the century.
Want to know what you guys should focus your unnecessary hate on? Money. Money is going to desimate this entire planet. Hell, people fund entire wars SOLELY to make a profit (Looking at you America.)
Corporations don't give a crap about you and they own you.
We're gonna end up killing each other over... money



No holy wars and only in the middle east you say tell that to Boko Haram In nigeria.

Boko Haram targets include churches, individual Christians, persons engaged in unIslamic activities, Muslim critics, northern elders, schools, police stations, government buildings, newspapers, and banks. International Criminal Court prosecutor Fatou Bensouda stated in November 2012 that there is a reasonable basis to believe that Boko Haram has committed crimes against humanity in Nigeria. - See more at: http://www.uscirf.gov/reports-and-briefs/did-you-know/4078.html#sthash.jAZP6g1z.dpuf


Boko Haram has attacked churches on Christmas Eve or Christmas day three years in a row from 2010 to 2012, initiating these attacksin northern cities with a history of sectarian violence in an effort to further destabilize Nigeria. It also has killed individual Christians and in January 2012 called on Christians to leave northern Nigeria. Boko Haram attacked a Christian area of Kano on July 30, killing 45 and damaging churches, and prior to that date, had burned down several churches after the Nigerian government on May 14 declared a state of emergency in Borno, Yobe, and Adamawa states. In addition to its bombings and burnings at, and shootings of, churches, Boko Haram has attacked beer parlors, poker players, and soccer viewing centers. - See more at: http://www.uscirf.gov/reports-and-briefs/did-you-know/4078.html#sthash.jAZP6g1z.dpuf


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CowsGoMoo95
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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 05:44:23
By Collete [1389080]
By CowsGoMoo95 [1727658]
Why do you people bash religion as the downfall of mankind? Are you that ignorant as to believe religion causes our problems? Yes there is violence because of it, but it's seriously dying out. You don't see too many holy wars any more. Only in the middle east and I can see that whole fiasco ending by the turn of the century.
Want to know what you guys should focus your unnecessary hate on? Money. Money is going to desimate this entire planet. Hell, people fund entire wars SOLELY to make a profit (Looking at you America.)
Corporations don't give a crap about you and they own you.
We're gonna end up killing each other over... money



No holy wars and only in the middle east you say tell that to Boko Haram In nigeria.

Boko Haram targets include churches, individual Christians, persons engaged in unIslamic activities, Muslim critics, northern elders, schools, police stations, government buildings, newspapers, and banks. International Criminal Court prosecutor Fatou Bensouda stated in November 2012 that there is a reasonable basis to believe that Boko Haram has committed crimes against humanity in Nigeria. - See more at: http://www.uscirf.gov/reports-and-briefs/did-you-know/4078.html#sthash.jAZP6g1z.dpuf


Boko Haram has attacked churches on Christmas Eve or Christmas day three years in a row from 2010 to 2012, initiating these attacksin northern cities with a history of sectarian violence in an effort to further destabilize Nigeria. It also has killed individual Christians and in January 2012 called on Christians to leave northern Nigeria. Boko Haram attacked a Christian area of Kano on July 30, killing 45 and damaging churches, and prior to that date, had burned down several churches after the Nigerian government on May 14 declared a state of emergency in Borno, Yobe, and Adamawa states. In addition to its bombings and burnings at, and shootings of, churches, Boko Haram has attacked beer parlors, poker players, and soccer viewing centers. - See more at: http://www.uscirf.gov/reports-and-briefs/did-you-know/4078.html#sthash.jAZP6g1z.dpuf


Hmmm, I did not know of this. But is this a holy war or just an extremist? I know either one is wrong, but I am curious. Is this basically a religious terrorist or is there actually a war going on?

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Collete

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 06:05:14
By CowsGoMoo95 [1727658]
By Collete [1389080]
By CowsGoMoo95 [1727658]
Why do you people bash religion as the downfall of mankind? Are you that ignorant as to believe religion causes our problems? Yes there is violence because of it, but it's seriously dying out. You don't see too many holy wars any more. Only in the middle east and I can see that whole fiasco ending by the turn of the century.
Want to know what you guys should focus your unnecessary hate on? Money. Money is going to desimate this entire planet. Hell, people fund entire wars SOLELY to make a profit (Looking at you America.)
Corporations don't give a crap about you and they own you.
We're gonna end up killing each other over... money



No holy wars and only in the middle east you say tell that to Boko Haram In nigeria.

Boko Haram targets include churches, individual Christians, persons engaged in unIslamic activities, Muslim critics, northern elders, schools, police stations, government buildings, newspapers, and banks. International Criminal Court prosecutor Fatou Bensouda stated in November 2012 that there is a reasonable basis to believe that Boko Haram has committed crimes against humanity in Nigeria. - See more at: http://www.uscirf.gov/reports-and-briefs/did-you-know/4078.html#sthash.jAZP6g1z.dpuf


Boko Haram has attacked churches on Christmas Eve or Christmas day three years in a row from 2010 to 2012, initiating these attacksin northern cities with a history of sectarian violence in an effort to further destabilize Nigeria. It also has killed individual Christians and in January 2012 called on Christians to leave northern Nigeria. Boko Haram attacked a Christian area of Kano on July 30, killing 45 and damaging churches, and prior to that date, had burned down several churches after the Nigerian government on May 14 declared a state of emergency in Borno, Yobe, and Adamawa states. In addition to its bombings and burnings at, and shootings of, churches, Boko Haram has attacked beer parlors, poker players, and soccer viewing centers. - See more at: http://www.uscirf.gov/reports-and-briefs/did-you-know/4078.html#sthash.jAZP6g1z.dpuf


Hmmm, I did not know of this. But is this a holy war or just an extremist? I know either one is wrong, but I am curious. Is this basically a religious terrorist or is there actually a war going on?


Holy war they have burned down dozens of churchs they want sharia law


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Fujiko

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 14:18:51
muslims.jpg

www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/pakistan-muslims-form-symbolic-human-shield-protect-christian-church-terrorist-attacks

You can find loads of examples of religion being used as a tool (read: justification) for any number of atrocities.

You can also find loads of examples of religion inspiring to help one another and do good in the world.

In the end, its not religion who should be bashed, but those people who use it to justify harming others.

People who use it for the purpose of learning instead of vying for a leg up in their own struggle for dominance or control of others, should rather be respected, if not praised.

Last Edited: Fri Oct 11, 2013 14:32:04
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KickRocks

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 14:46:46
I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't think there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and parading around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face white and praying to a rock.
-Howard Stern


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PopadaPill

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 15:07:58
By Fujiko [341315]
muslims.jpg

www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/pakistan-muslims-form-symbolic-human-shield-protect-christian-church-terrorist-attacks

You can find loads of examples of religion being used as a tool (read: justification) for any number of atrocities.

You can also find loads of examples of religion inspiring to help one another and do good in the world.

In the end, its not religion who should be bashed, but those people who use it to justify harming others.

People who use it for the purpose of learning instead of vying for a leg up in their own struggle for dominance or control of others, should rather be respected, if not praised.


Do you think its ok to tell children that there is a higher power controlling the world around them,judging them constantly,may be they put two and two together and realize their mates are not doing the same god as them or any god at all,and being told what happens if you dont follow the right guy.

Its stressing out kids for no benefit what so ever to them,it is a sad state of affairs if you ask me.

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LSD

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 15:16:03
By KickRocks [1030718]
I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't think there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and parading around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face white and praying to a rock.
-Howard Stern


I, too, look to Howard Stern for guidance. He's a well informed person.

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Fujiko

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 15:21:54
By PopadaPill [900338]
Do you think its ok to tell children that there is a higher power controlling the world around them,judging them constantly,may be they put two and two together and realize their mates are not doing the same god as them or any god at all,and being told what happens if you don't follow the right guy.

Its stressing out kids for no benefit what so ever to them,it is a sad state of affairs if you ask me.


Yes, well, you've already made your view on the matter clear.

I could iterate and re-iterate that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity do indeed hold the key to solving all major world problems, point to sources from a leading cultural anthropologist that confirms that claim, explain that the story of Jesus teaches the same as Socrates in Plato's Crito, Phaedo and Apology (the Socratic Dialogues) if any of those be understood correctly by a person, and that compound interest is at the heart of this iniquity and that the commandment against usury is the real enemy of a reasonable state of human equity and harmony the world over, and so on.

I've even gone so far as to present those concepts quite eloquently, to deaf ears.

What else can I do?

*kicks the stone*

Last Edited: Fri Oct 11, 2013 15:23:17
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MachineGunSteve

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 15:31:30
By Fujiko [341315]
By PopadaPill [900338]
Do you think its ok to tell children that there is a higher power controlling the world around them,judging them constantly,may be they put two and two together and realize their mates are not doing the same god as them or any god at all,and being told what happens if you don't follow the right guy.

Its stressing out kids for no benefit what so ever to them,it is a sad state of affairs if you ask me.


Yes, well, you've already made your view on the matter clear.

I could iterate and re-iterate that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity do indeed hold the key to solving all major world problems, point to sources from a leading cultural anthropologist that confirms that claim, explain that the story of Jesus teaches the same as Socrates in Plato's Crito, Phaedo and Apology (the Socratic Dialogues) if any of those be understood correctly by a person, and that compound interest is at the heart of this iniquity and that the commandment against usury is the real enemy of a reasonable state of human equity and harmony the world over, and so on.

I've even gone so far as to present those concepts quite eloquently, to deaf ears.

What else can I do?

*kicks the stone*


As you say, we already had Socrates and Plato... few paid attention hundreds of years before Christ, and little has changed 2000 years on. Three diverging messages that all spring from the same source still only equals three different "teams", or "tribes, or whatever... add in those who do not believe and then we have 4 "teams", add in all the other "teams", who believe in something else, and we have lots of "teams"... lots of "teams" equals lots of reasons to hate, abuse, and kill. Perhaps the solution is in the message of one or several of those "teams", but few can hear the message for all the hate filled screaming about which team is correct...

Give me Plato any day.


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KickRocks

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 16:10:47
By LSD [883567]
By KickRocks [1030718]
I'm sickened by all religions. Religion has divided people. I don't think there's any difference between the pope wearing a large hat and parading around with a smoking purse and an African painting his face white and praying to a rock.
-Howard Stern


I, too, look to Howard Stern for guidance. He's a well informed person.


I don't look to anyone for guidance. But I do listen to the opinions of people I respect. Howard Stern being one of them.

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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 17:12:01
By MachineGunSteve [184119]
By Fujiko [341315]
By PopadaPill [900338]
Do you think its ok to tell children that there is a higher power controlling the world around them,judging them constantly,may be they put two and two together and realize their mates are not doing the same god as them or any god at all,and being told what happens if you don't follow the right guy.

Its stressing out kids for no benefit what so ever to them,it is a sad state of affairs if you ask me.


Yes, well, you've already made your view on the matter clear.

I could iterate and re-iterate that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity do indeed hold the key to solving all major world problems, point to sources from a leading cultural anthropologist that confirms that claim, explain that the story of Jesus teaches the same as Socrates in Plato's Crito, Phaedo and Apology (the Socratic Dialogues) if any of those be understood correctly by a person, and that compound interest is at the heart of this iniquity and that the commandment against usury is the real enemy of a reasonable state of human equity and harmony the world over, and so on.

I've even gone so far as to present those concepts quite eloquently, to deaf ears.

What else can I do?

*kicks the stone*


As you say, we already had Socrates and Plato... few paid attention hundreds of years before Christ, and little has changed 2000 years on. Three diverging messages that all spring from the same source still only equals three different "teams", or "tribes, or whatever... add in those who do not believe and then we have 4 "teams", add in all the other "teams", who believe in something else, and we have lots of "teams"... lots of "teams" equals lots of reasons to hate, abuse, and kill. Perhaps the solution is in the message of one or several of those "teams", but few can hear the message for all the hate filled screaming about which team is correct...

Give me Plato any day.


But then, you don't like Plato's Solution: the Politeia run by the Philosopher-King with Absolute and Arbitrary Power - and of course, the death of every little Periokos who does not comply with every Regal whim. In Plato's Polis, you do not get to express the sentiment 'we would rather die'.
You simply perish the first time you refuse to conform. There is no waiting for you to express an opinion of the matter. It's the Anthill.

Last Edited: Fri Oct 11, 2013 17:21:41
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PopadaPill

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 17:16:49
By Fujiko [341315]
By PopadaPill [900338]
Do you think its ok to tell children that there is a higher power controlling the world around them,judging them constantly,may be they put two and two together and realize their mates are not doing the same god as them or any god at all,and being told what happens if you don't follow the right guy.

Its stressing out kids for no benefit what so ever to them,it is a sad state of affairs if you ask me.


Yes, well, you've already made your view on the matter clear.

I could iterate and re-iterate that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity do indeed hold the key to solving all major world problems, point to sources from a leading cultural anthropologist that confirms that claim, explain that the story of Jesus teaches the same as Socrates in Plato's Crito, Phaedo and Apology (the Socratic Dialogues) if any of those be understood correctly by a person, and that compound interest is at the heart of this iniquity and that the commandment against usury is the real enemy of a reasonable state of human equity and harmony the world over, and so on.

I've even gone so far as to present those concepts quite eloquently, to deaf ears.

What else can I do?

*kicks the stone*


course you have dear,any idea how long it would take to solve these problems as such if your plan came into action..would we bring back moses to lower the rising sea levels.Make sure your pick him up on the way to work,i hear he gets lost easily.

PopadaPIllSiggy_zps19cd92e3.jpg
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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 17:31:12
By PopadaPill [900338]
By Fujiko [341315]
By PopadaPill [900338]
Do you think its ok to tell children that there is a higher power controlling the world around them,judging them constantly,may be they put two and two together and realize their mates are not doing the same god as them or any god at all,and being told what happens if you don't follow the right guy.

Its stressing out kids for no benefit what so ever to them,it is a sad state of affairs if you ask me.


Yes, well, you've already made your view on the matter clear.

I could iterate and re-iterate that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity do indeed hold the key to solving all major world problems, point to sources from a leading cultural anthropologist that confirms that claim, explain that the story of Jesus teaches the same as Socrates in Plato's Crito, Phaedo and Apology (the Socratic Dialogues) if any of those be understood correctly by a person, and that compound interest is at the heart of this iniquity and that the commandment against usury is the real enemy of a reasonable state of human equity and harmony the world over, and so on.

I've even gone so far as to present those concepts quite eloquently, to deaf ears.

What else can I do?

*kicks the stone*


course you have dear,any idea how long it would take to solve these problems as such if your plan came into action..would we bring back moses to lower the rising sea levels.Make sure your pick him up on the way to work,i hear he gets lost easily.

Why bring back Moses?
Deny mankind his cars, planes, and lets not forget his heating,and the problem is solved.




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MachineGunSteve

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 18:33:13
By DarthBrogo [21801]
By MachineGunSteve [184119]
By Fujiko [341315]
By PopadaPill [900338]
Do you think its ok to tell children that there is a higher power controlling the world around them,judging them constantly,may be they put two and two together and realize their mates are not doing the same god as them or any god at all,and being told what happens if you don't follow the right guy.

Its stressing out kids for no benefit what so ever to them,it is a sad state of affairs if you ask me.


Yes, well, you've already made your view on the matter clear.

I could iterate and re-iterate that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity do indeed hold the key to solving all major world problems, point to sources from a leading cultural anthropologist that confirms that claim, explain that the story of Jesus teaches the same as Socrates in Plato's Crito, Phaedo and Apology (the Socratic Dialogues) if any of those be understood correctly by a person, and that compound interest is at the heart of this iniquity and that the commandment against usury is the real enemy of a reasonable state of human equity and harmony the world over, and so on.

I've even gone so far as to present those concepts quite eloquently, to deaf ears.

What else can I do?

*kicks the stone*


As you say, we already had Socrates and Plato... few paid attention hundreds of years before Christ, and little has changed 2000 years on. Three diverging messages that all spring from the same source still only equals three different "teams", or "tribes, or whatever... add in those who do not believe and then we have 4 "teams", add in all the other "teams", who believe in something else, and we have lots of "teams"... lots of "teams" equals lots of reasons to hate, abuse, and kill. Perhaps the solution is in the message of one or several of those "teams", but few can hear the message for all the hate filled screaming about which team is correct...

Give me Plato any day.


But then, you don't like Plato's Solution: the Politeia run by the Philosopher-King with Absolute and Arbitrary Power - and of course, the death of every little Periokos who does not comply with every Regal whim. In Plato's Polis, you do not get to express the sentiment 'we would rather die'.
You simply perish the first time you refuse to conform. There is no waiting for you to express an opinion of the matter. It's the Anthill.


But a Philosopher-King would be the same as a benevolent dictator (at least to my way of thinking), which I have always believed would be the perfect form of governance... in theory of course.

Problem is in finding anyone who is truly benevolent to all concerned.

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Hades

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 19:07:07
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Last Edited: Fri Oct 11, 2013 21:01:02
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Fujiko

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 20:16:46
I concur that many paths can lead to the same destination, if followed with understanding. Even so, I see no need to "bash" any one of them, even based on those who corrupt the teaching for their own selfish gain, is there?

How much has life really changed? As it were, humanity's problems still have the same root causes, so I would argue that it hasn't changed at all!


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DeadLiftBrah
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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 20:21:17
People who bash your mum are too idiots for creating you.

If the bar ain't bending... He be pretending!
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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 20:53:56
By MachineGunSteve [184119]


But a Philosopher-King would be the same as a benevolent dictator (at least to my way of thinking), which I have always believed would be the perfect form of governance... in theory of course.

Problem is in finding anyone who is truly benevolent to all concerned.

If you find one - a benevolent dictator - let me know.
Which is to say I understand your point.


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Gungrave
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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 21:17:16
By PopadaPill [900338]
By Fujiko [341315]
muslims.jpg

www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/pakistan-muslims-form-symbolic-human-shield-protect-christian-church-terrorist-attacks

You can find loads of examples of religion being used as a tool (read: justification) for any number of atrocities.

You can also find loads of examples of religion inspiring to help one another and do good in the world.

In the end, its not religion who should be bashed, but those people who use it to justify harming others.

People who use it for the purpose of learning instead of vying for a leg up in their own struggle for dominance or control of others, should rather be respected, if not praised.


Do you think its ok to tell children that there is a higher power controlling the world around them,judging them constantly,may be they put two and two together and realize their mates are not doing the same god as them or any god at all,and being told what happens if you dont follow the right guy.

Its stressing out kids for no benefit what so ever to them,it is a sad state of affairs if you ask me.


you left out the fact that many parents use religion as a means to teach kids good morals otherwise they go to hell for being bad when in fact all you need to teach good morals is firm parenting and a thick belt to spank your kids when they get out of line and start doing really stupid shit.

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 22:00:45
By Gungrave [470221]
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www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/pakistan-muslims-form-symbolic-human-shield-protect-christian-church-terrorist-attacks

You can find loads of examples of religion being used as a tool (read: justification) for any number of atrocities.

You can also find loads of examples of religion inspiring to help one another and do good in the world.

In the end, its not religion who should be bashed, but those people who use it to justify harming others.

People who use it for the purpose of learning instead of vying for a leg up in their own struggle for dominance or control of others, should rather be respected, if not praised.


Do you think its ok to tell children that there is a higher power controlling the world around them,judging them constantly,may be they put two and two together and realize their mates are not doing the same god as them or any god at all,and being told what happens if you dont follow the right guy.

Its stressing out kids for no benefit what so ever to them,it is a sad state of affairs if you ask me.


you left out the fact that many parents use religion as a means to teach kids good morals otherwise they go to hell for being bad when in fact all you need to teach good morals is firm parenting and a thick belt to spank your kids when they get out of line and start doing really stupid shit.



You should have to use neither religion or a belt.
If you are using religion to tech you kids to be good they will only bee good because if they done they will burn for eternity. lol
As for the belt. Well do i need to type any more?

Children just need love and he right guidance from the parents. Not tricking, blackmailing or beating them into submition.

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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 22:34:20
By PopadaPill [900338]

Do you think its ok to tell children that there is a higher power controlling the world around them,judging them constantly,may be they put two and two together and realize their mates are not doing the same god as them or any god at all,and being told what happens if you dont follow the right guy.

Its stressing out kids for no benefit what so ever to them,it is a sad state of affairs if you ask me.



Since you mention it,it certainly is good to do JUST that.

Such indoctrination - other things being equal - will teach children to focus on doing what is right, to destest moral slscknes, weigh every action with sober gravity, and avoid companionship with those who do not maintain a narrow niche-focus on strict and uncompromising standards of conventional morality.

Granted! There are secular ways of achieving much the same.

I grew up in a secular household with parents who emphatically did not believe in any God.
Nonetheless they did manage to teach me to detest divorce,abortion,drugs,extra-marital sex, moral slackness and so on and so forth - and have nothing to do with those who are insufficiently committed to eradicate slackness and pleasure-seeking in general.

But those secular ways did not teach compassion for the victims, merely hatred for the rule-breakers.
Religion taught that the Rulebreaker can be redeemed as opposed to excluded permanently - or shoved into the Gulag on first offense.
I certainly no longer think of Morality as a competitive Winner-take-all sport.

Last Edited: Fri Oct 11, 2013 23:01:40
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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 22:43:39
By Hades [1728299]



You should have to use neither religion or a belt.
If you are using religion to tech you kids to be good they will only bee good because if they done they will burn for eternity. lol
As for the belt. Well do i need to type any more?

Children just need love and he right guidance from the parents. Not tricking, blackmailing or beating them into submition.


Bulldust! By and large,parents who try it your way do NOT instill in their children unwavering commitment to the strictest possible standards of morality. We can see that every day in our streets.

Furthermore, Submission to Parental authority- and Authority in general- must be absolute, unquestioning, instantaneous and unconditional.
That is not contingent upon Religion.

Take the Politeia [Plato], or China under Mao, or the First Emperor, and the writ simply reads: 'you disobey, you die'.

Last Edited: Fri Oct 11, 2013 23:19:17
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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 23:26:12
From The Independent (uk)...

A new review of 63 scientific studies stretching back over decades has concluded that religious people are less intelligent than non-believers.

A piece of University of Rochester analysis, led by Professor Miron Zuckerman, found a reliable negative relation between intelligence and religiosity in 53 out of 63 studies.

According to the study entitled, 'The Relation Between Intelligence and Religiosity: A Meta-Analysis and Some Proposed Explanations', published in the 'Personality and Social Psychology Review', even during early years the more intelligent a child is the more likely it would be to turn away from religion.

In old age above average intelligence people are less likely to believe, the researchers also found.

One of the studies used in Zuckerman's paper was a life-long analysis of the beliefs of 1,500 gifted children with with IQs over 135.

The study began in 1921 and continues today. Even in extreme old age the subjects had much lower levels of religious belief than the average population.

The review, which is the first systematic meta-analysis of the 63 studies conducted in between 1928 and 2012, showed that of the 63 studies, 53 showed a negative correlation between intelligence and religiosity, while 10 showed a positive one.

Only two studies showed significant positive correlations and significant negative correlations were seen in a total of 35 studies.

The authors of the review looked at each study independently, taking into account the quality of data collection, the size of the sample and the analysis methods used.

The three psychologists carrying out the review defined intelligence as the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly, and learn from experience.

Religiosity is defined by the psychologists as involvement in some (or all) facets of religion.

According to the review, other factors - such as gender or education - did not make any difference to the correlation between intelligence and religious belief.

The level of belief, or otherwise, did however vary dependent upon age with the correlation found to be weakest among the pre-college population.

The paper concludes that: "Most extant explanations (of a negative relation) share one central theme the premise that religious beliefs are irrational, not anchored in science, not testable and, therefore, unappealing to intelligent people who 'know better'."

Criticisms of the conclusions include that the paper only deals with a definition of analytic intelligence and fails to consider newly identified forms of creative and emotional intelligence.

The psychologists who carried out the review also sought to pre-empt the secularist interpretation of the findings by suggesting that more intelligent people are less likely to have religious beliefs as they associate themselves with ideas around personal control.

"Intelligent people typically spend more time in school - a form of self-regulation that may yield long-term benefits," the researchers wrote.

"More intelligent people get higher level jobs (and better employment (and higher salary) may lead to higher self-esteem, and encourage personal control beliefs."


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Posted on Fri Oct 11, 2013 23:27:37
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Posted on Sat Oct 12, 2013 00:05:14
Too bad they did not make the comparison with the correlation between Intelligence and Crime Rate.

Or the correlation between the kant of the teaching staff and the kant of pupil.

The paper concludes that: "Most extant explanations (of a negative relation) share one central theme the premise that religious beliefs are irrational, not anchored in science, not testable and, therefore, unappealing to intelligent people who 'know better'."

That says more about the prevailing intellectual climate at contemporary Uni level

Had you performed the same tests in in the 17th century you'd have had the reverse results.

Last Edited: Sat Oct 12, 2013 00:23:01
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Posted on Sat Oct 12, 2013 04:24:38
True

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Posted on Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:42:58
By DarthBrogo [21801]
By PopadaPill [900338]

Do you think its ok to tell children that there is a higher power controlling the world around them,judging them constantly,may be they put two and two together and realize their mates are not doing the same god as them or any god at all,and being told what happens if you dont follow the right guy.

Its stressing out kids for no benefit what so ever to them,it is a sad state of affairs if you ask me.



Since you mention it,it certainly is good to do JUST that.

Such indoctrination - other things being equal - will teach children to focus on doing what is right, to destest moral slscknes, weigh every action with sober gravity, and avoid companionship with those who do not maintain a narrow niche-focus on strict and uncompromising standards of conventional morality.

Granted! There are secular ways of achieving much the same.

I grew up in a secular household with parents who emphatically did not believe in any God.
Nonetheless they did manage to teach me to detest divorce,abortion,drugs,extra-marital sex, moral slackness and so on and so forth - and have nothing to do with those who are insufficiently committed to eradicate slackness and pleasure-seeking in general.

But those secular ways did not teach compassion for the victims, merely hatred for the rule-breakers.
Religion taught that the Rulebreaker can be redeemed as opposed to excluded permanently - or shoved into the Gulag on first offense.
I certainly no longer think of Morality as a competitive Winner-take-all sport.


I suppose its the luck of the draw on how mentality ill,i mean religious your parents are.


I never shout,ball at my kid,never used intimidation and hes doing very well.

At 11 hes using his own logic to work out why there 'proberly' isnt a god...11 ffs...deary me

Last Edited: Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:56:36
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