By _TheCrow_ [686314]
Let me ask YOU something. You think it foolish for a parent to teach their kids how to use and take care of their guns, so what would you prefer? Having people picking up guns for the first time at the age of legal consumption and them know nothing about using one? I'd rather trust a 12 year old who's been shooting and training since they were 6 than a drunken 21 year old swinging around a pistol saying "Hey, look what I bought last week. This shit is boss."
same goes for driving, drinking, getting married, joining the army, getting a job.
there must be a reason for having a minimum age for things, wouldn't you agree?
I don't know where you are all from but where I live there is no age limit on being allowed to shoot a firearm. You must take a hunter safety course and be 13(?) to hunt, although you are not required to take hunter safety to shoot firearms I think it is wise to do so. Lots of stuff in life can be dangerous if not properly handled and shown the respect it deserves, it is no different than a car. I have no problem with people owning firearms as long as they fully understand how to safely handle them.
By TedThomas [887131]
And we were talking about being able to own whatever gun you want (aka, an assault rife), not guns in general so what is your point. I dont remember anyone saying you shouldnt be able to own a gun at all.
And what the hell does Obama have to do with anything, he has done absolutely nothing to take any gun rights away from anyone. In fact he has expanded gun rights.
I am not really an Obama "supporter" anyways. Just because idiots want to come on here and say shit that is completely wrong and spread misinformation and I say something about it doesnt mean I think Obama is that great. He is definitely better than most people want to give him credit for, and he certainly isnt the devil.
* Obama has endorsed a total ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of all handguns.
* He endorsed on a ban on the sale or transfer of all semi-automatic firearms.
* He backed a 500% increase in federal taxes on guns and ammunition.
* He voted to ban single-shot, over-under, and side-by-side shotguns.
* He even opposed efforts to protect Americans from prosecution if they used guns in their homes for self defense.
Yeah, he's done nothing to take away gun rights from anybody, huh?
I know you're the type that never considers himself wrong and thinks they know it all, but this is a subject I'm willing to go toe-to-toe with you on, even though it'd be like talking to a brick wall.
By TedThomas [887131]
And we were talking about being able to own whatever gun you want (aka, an assault rife), not guns in general so what is your point. I dont remember anyone saying you shouldnt be able to own a gun at all.
And what the hell does Obama have to do with anything, he has done absolutely nothing to take any gun rights away from anyone. In fact he has expanded gun rights.
I am not really an Obama "supporter" anyways. Just because idiots want to come on here and say shit that is completely wrong and spread misinformation and I say something about it doesnt mean I think Obama is that great. He is definitely better than most people want to give him credit for, and he certainly isnt the devil.
* Obama has endorsed a total ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of all handguns.
* He endorsed on a ban on the sale or transfer of all semi-automatic firearms.
* He backed a 500% increase in federal taxes on guns and ammunition.
* He voted to ban single-shot, over-under, and side-by-side shotguns.
* He even opposed efforts to protect Americans from prosecution if they used guns in their homes for self defense.
Yeah, he's done nothing to take away gun rights from anybody, huh?
I know you're the type that never considers himself wrong and thinks they know it all, but this is a subject I'm willing to go toe-to-toe with you on, even though it'd be like talking to a brick wall.
Good job at falling for the lies that the NRA has been spreading.
By TedThomas [887131]
So what you are saying is you are buying into the NRA propaganda even though Obama has done nothing but expand gun rights. Good to know....
Also, I dont see any gun 'expansions laws' in his 'home' city of Chicago
By TedThomas [887131]
So what you are saying is you are buying into the NRA propaganda even though Obama has done nothing but expand gun rights. Good to know....
So what that big image says is that Obama scared the shit out of ignorant republicans and they went out and bought way more guns because they felt the need to protect themselves when that socialist black man tries to take away their rights.
I don't really think he's that bad, although I do think he's far more charismatic than he is an actual good leader.
Selling 7500 Bottles of Pumpkin Brew In my bazaar. Stock up on a huge collection
lol, *if* he gets reelected, you'll see his true intentions since he won't have to worry about another election. That's when all hell will break loose.. as he shits on our rights and wipes his ass with the constitution.
Also, this topic was towards gun enthusiasts (sorry if the topic wasn't obvious enough). Not a bunch of whiney ass bitches crying about people exercising their rights. So let's try to stick to the topic...
Still nice to see them again, Swag. I added a few more to my collection and going out here shortly to pick up a few more. I'll send you the pics when I see you on irc bro.
Your stance on Obama's views about gun control should be tempered and compared to Romney's stance, as he is the presumptive Republican candidate (gag... oh sorry, I just vomited a little bit in my mouths, sorry...) and was a supporter of The Brady Bill. Romney will say, vote, do, anything to get elected. I would not in any way trust Romney to protect the Second Amendment, unless it is politically beneficial to him. He is an elitist asshole, who can not be trusted any further than you can see him. One need only look at his voting record, legislation efforts, and overall history, to see that Romney is no friend to the Constitution, or gun rights advocates.
Who is better... Romney or Obama?
I say they are two sides of the same coin, and neither of them is going to be confused with Gen. Wingate or Col. Church anytime soon.
By joeykickdoors [1362446]
lol, *if* he gets reelected, you'll see his true intentions since he won't have to worry about another election. That's when all hell will break loose.. as he shits on our rights and wipes his ass with the constitution.
You have absolutely nothing to back that up. You are talking paranoid delusional bullshit.
Your stance on Obama's views about gun control should be tempered and compared to Romney's stance, as he is the presumptive Republican candidate (gag... oh sorry, I just vomited a little bit in my mouths, sorry...) and was a supporter of The Brady Bill. Romney will say, vote, do, anything to get elected. I would not in any way trust Romney to protect the Second Amendment, unless it is politically beneficial to him. He is an elitist asshole, who can not be trusted any further than you can see him. One need only look at his voting record, legislation efforts, and overall history, to see that Romney is no friend to the Constitution, or gun rights advocates.
Who is better... Romney or Obama?
I say they are two sides of the same coin, and neither of them is going to be confused with Gen. Wingate or Col. Church anytime soon.
One thing you have to consider is where the 2 were raised. Obama in Hawaii/Washington State/Indonesia and Romney in Michigan. That will be the difference in this gun views. Obama has probably never went hunting or done anykind of sport shooting in his life. Romney probably has. Either way, our guns wont be touched, but it would be nice to know we had somebody on our side in office.
By joeykickdoors [1362446]
lol, *if* he gets reelected, you'll see his true intentions since he won't have to worry about another election. That's when all hell will break loose.. as he shits on our rights and wipes his ass with the constitution.
You have absolutely nothing to back that up. You are talking paranoid delusional bullshit.
You're wrong here Ted. Presidents have almost always got a little more testy in a second term because of not having to worry about reelection. Obama would be no different. We wont have to worry about that though, he wont be back in office.
By joeykickdoors [1362446]
lol, *if* he gets reelected, you'll see his true intentions since he won't have to worry about another election. That's when all hell will break loose.. as he shits on our rights and wipes his ass with the constitution.
You have absolutely nothing to back that up. You are talking paranoid delusional bullshit.
You're wrong here Ted. Presidents have almost always got a little more testy in a second term because of not having to worry about reelection. Obama would be no different. We wont have to worry about that though, he wont be back in office.
The only thing Obama has done even in relation to guns since he took office is expand concealed carry laws.
To say he is going to just completely turn around and start making all these regulations all of a sudden is made up bullshit. People are just making shit up out of thin air as another reason to dislike Obama when he has done nothing to indicate he would do that. Its complete made up speculation that the NRA has been repeating over and over in order to scare people into thinking Obama is after their guns, when he isnt.
Why is it that like 80% of the accusations that come from the right and the reason why they dont like Obama, are false and usually completely made up? Cant they come up with real criticisms?
By joeykickdoors [1362446]
lol, *if* he gets reelected, you'll see his true intentions since he won't have to worry about another election. That's when all hell will break loose.. as he shits on our rights and wipes his ass with the constitution.
You have absolutely nothing to back that up. You are talking paranoid delusional bullshit.
You're wrong here Ted. Presidents have almost always got a little more testy in a second term because of not having to worry about reelection. Obama would be no different. We wont have to worry about that though, he wont be back in office.
The only thing Obama has done even in relation to guns since he took office is expand concealed carry laws.
To say he is going to just completely turn around and start making all these regulations all of a sudden is made up bullshit. People are just making shit up out of thin air as another reason to dislike Obama when he has done nothing to indicate he would do that. Its complete made up speculation that the NRA has been repeating over and over in order to scare people into thinking Obama is after their guns, when he isnt.
Why is it that like 80% of the accusations that come from the right and the reason why they dont like Obama, are false and usually completely made up? Cant they come up with real criticisms?
Every one of these were either from an Obama interview or directly from Illinois voting records. Now tell me he is for expanding anything tl do with guns.
In March 2004, the Illinois Senate passed Senate Bill 2165, a law introduced in response to DeMar's case, with
provisions designed to assert a right of citizens to protect themselves against home invasions, such that self-defense
requirements would be viewed to take precedence over local ordinances against handgun possession. The measure passed the Illinois Senate by a vote of 38-20. Barack Obama was one of the 20 state senators voting against the measure. Governor Rod Blagojevich vetoed the bill. On Nov. 9, 2004, the Illinois Senate voted 40-18 to override Blagojevich's veto. Again, Obama acted against the bill. On Nov. 17, the Illinois House voted overwhelmingly, 85-30, to override the governor's veto and Senate Bill 2165 became law.
FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban
Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, “No, my writing wasn’t on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns.”
Actually, Obama’s writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line: 35. Do you support state legislation to: a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes. b. ban assault weapons? Yes. c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.
Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok
Q: You said recently, “I have no intention of taking away folks’ guns.” But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you’ve said that it’s constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?
A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it’s important for us to recognize that we’ve got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people’s traditions.
2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month
Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month (it did not pass). He voted against letting people violate local weapons bans in cases of self-defense, but also voted in2004 to let retired police officers carry concealed handguns.
Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois senate that allowed retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons. If there was any issue on which Obama rarely deviated, it was gun control. He was the most strident candidate when it came to enforcin and expanding gun control laws. So this vote jumped out as inconsistent.
When I queried him about the vote, he said, “I didn’t find that [vote] surprising. I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry. This was a narrow exception in an exceptional circumstance where a retired police officer might find himself vulnerable as a consequence of the work he has previously done--and had been trained extensively in the proper use of firearms.“ It wasn’t until a few weeks later that another theory came forward about the uncharacteristic vote. Obama was battling with his GOP opponent to win the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police.
Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban
KEYES: [to Obama]: I am a strong believer in the second amendment. The gun control mentality is ruthlessly absurd. It suggests that we should pass a law that prevents law abiding citizens from carrying weapons. You end up with a situation where the crook have all the guns and the law abiding citizens cannot defend themselves. I guess that’s good enough for Senator Obama who voted against the bill that would have allowed homeowners to defend themselves if their homes were broken into.
OBAMA: Let’s be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban.
Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions
Principles that Obama supports on gun issues: Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons. Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms. Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:
Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices
Can you point me to the part where he has done anything as president about guns other than allow firearms in national park? I am having a hard time finding it...
By TedThomas [887131]
Can you point me to the part where he has done anything as president about guns other than allow firearms in national park? I am having a hard time finding it...
Hes done absolutely nothing with guns as president. That was the reason for the comment about him in his second term above. IF he was given a second term, it would be on his little socialist checklist.
So in other words, he has done nothing as president to indicate he is going to go after guns at any point and you are just making up shit based on your paranoid delusions because if he wasnt going after guns you would have to agree with him on something.
No, i never said he was a huge threat to guns in the first place. I wouldnt put an assault rifle ban past him, and when he first took office there was proposed legislation to massively increase taxes on ammo but it got put on the back burner for other things. Im also saying that he isnt pro-gun as you are making him out to be and that gun issues wouldnt come out until a second term, because if he tried it now, it would be political death and he wouldnt stand a chance at getting reelected. Quit putting words in my mouth. You can spin what i say like the rest of the retards around here. I gave you proof hes against guns, and the only reason he has passed the couple laws he has is because they were tied to other stuff.
That nice you have "proof" that he wasnt completely pro-gun (actually he was, making restrictions on certain guns doesnt make you anti-gun. It makes you a reasonable human being) when he wasnt president. The fact of the matter is he hasnt done anything during his presidency to make anyone think that its an issue he is going to ever focus on or else you would think he would have at least said something after Chicago's handgun ban expired or mentioned once in the last 3 1/2 years that he wants to work on gun regulation at some point.
Anything you have to say about what you think he is going to do is complete speculation that really has no foundation. You are judging the guy over what you think he may or may not do based on your own assumptions.
By TedThomas [887131]
That nice you have "proof" that he wasnt completely pro-gun (actually he was, making restrictions on certain guns doesnt make you anti-gun. It makes you a reasonable human being) when he wasnt president. The fact of the matter is he hasnt done anything during his presidency to make anyone think that its an issue he is going to ever focus on or else you would think he would have at least said something after Chicago's handgun ban expired or mentioned once in the last 3 1/2 years that he wants to work on gun regulation at some point.
Anything you have to say about what you think he is going to do is complete speculation that really has no foundation. You are judging the guy over what you think he may or may not do based on your own assumptions.
No foundation, like what he has said and his previous voting record. Im not just throwing out bullshit, everything ive posted has had facts behind it. If he has voted against certain things in the past, dont you think he would do it again?
Plus he voted against a bill that had to do with self defense in cases involving home invasions, thats not being a reasonable human being, thats not giving a f**k.
Like is said before....
/discussion
This was meant to be a thread for gun enthusiast, not for people to rub Obamas balls.
Yes, no foundation. Have you ever thought that maybe he thinks gun control should taken care of at the state level?
Why would I think he would "do it again" if he hasnt even mentioned guns in the 3 years he has been president unless I just want something to bitch about?
That's like me saying that Mitt Romney will probably start a war with Russia because he said they were our biggest "geopolitical foe" (which was completely wrong, I think he thinks we are still in the 50's).
BTW, he voted to not allow people to violate gun bans in cases of self defense. In other words, if you live in a city that has banned handguns and you shoot someone who breaks into your house with a handgun, you will still get in trouble for having a handgun. Actually learn what you are talking about.
I just think the most important stat that is usually overlooked is... US cities around the country have been DROPPING in crime rates, including murder and other violent crimes, pretty drastically since the 1990s. Ironically, this SHARP DECREASE in crime has been taking place during economic turbulence and increased gun ownership.... while many European cities and countries, specifically London, have been experiencing increases in crime.
Who knows if the decrease is related to gun ownership, but you can pretty conclusively say that at least we know for SURE that guns are not making the country more violent over the past 20 years.
![Spurtung [96875]](http://awardimages.torn.com/96875-74581-large.png "Spurtung [96875]")
![_V_ [1033988]](http://awardimages.torn.com/1033988-30704-large.png "_V_ [1033988]")
![joeykickdoors [1362446]](http://awardimages.torn.com/1362446-81927-large.png "joeykickdoors [1362446]")
![TedThomas [887131]](http://awardimages.torn.com/887131-65195-large.png "TedThomas [887131]")
![TORN_STAFF [1601847]](http://awardimages.torn.com/1601847-56304-large.png "TORN_STAFF [1601847]")
![Claws [981697]](http://awardimages.torn.com/981697-65116-large.png "Claws [981697]")
![Swag [929733]](http://awardimages.torn.com/929733-83272-large.png "Swag [929733]")
I added a few more to my collection and going out here shortly to pick up a few more. I'll send you the pics when I see you on irc bro. 
![MachineGunSteve [184119]](http://awardimages.torn.com/184119-21906-large.png "MachineGunSteve [184119]")
![RowdyRedneck [995650]](http://awardimages.torn.com/995650-83094-large.png "RowdyRedneck [995650]")
![bosox [278767]](http://awardimages.torn.com/278767-86027-large.png "bosox [278767]")
Follow @TornRPG