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Forum Main>>Suggestions>> Remove faction committment merits.
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Like50people

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Posted on Fri Jun 14, 2013 20:49:09
I personally am working towards the faction day merits, but i believe giving it a "days as a member of a faction" asa total of all days of being a faction member rather than for just one faction would be very nice for the people who war for different factions for money and stuff along those lines :;);

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MimeFaceKiller

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Posted on Sat Jun 15, 2013 01:52:43
Merits = good
Removing merits = bad

The mime has spoken.

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Butters

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Posted on Sat Jun 15, 2013 02:08:44
By Moustache [1649810]
I personally am working towards the faction day merits, but i believe giving it a ";days as a member of a faction"; asa total of all days of being a faction member rather than for just one faction would be very nice for the people who war for different factions for money and stuff along those lines :;;);;


I disagree - you choose to guest chain or regularly hop between factions for some other reason then you forego the merits (;if this was done then you might as well just make them age-based merits as that's all the faction commitment merits will essentially amount to);.

Other merits in torn require choices to be made in terms of how you play the game - so if you want the faction commitment merits then you have to stick with the one faction for long enough (;same goes for marriage);.

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Hobbie

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Posted on Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:25:38
By Butters [34298]
By Moustache [1649810]
I personally am working towards the faction day merits, but i believe giving it a ";;days as a member of a faction";; asa total of all days of being a faction member rather than for just one faction would be very nice for the people who war for different factions for money and stuff along those lines :;;;);;;


I disagree - you choose to guest chain or regularly hop between factions for some other reason then you forego the merits (;;if this was done then you might as well just make them age-based merits as that';s all the faction commitment merits will essentially amount to);;.

Other merits in torn require choices to be made in terms of how you play the game - so if you want the faction commitment merits then you have to stick with the one faction for long enough (;;same goes for marriage);;.


Equally, why should there not be a string of merits for guest chaining and faction hopping?
I agree I wouldn't create 'days in any faction' merits initially, but it's about changing what we have to a lesser evil. And it sounds like you're getting too hung up on the 'commitment' side of the awards. And the problem if that people DO go for the faction commitment merits - active players sitting in dead/dying factions where they're unhappy for 1000 days. Doesn't sound like a good feature of the game.


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Butters

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Posted on Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:48:25
There's a lot of smoke and mirrors in your reply there Hobbie but not a whole lot of legitimate justification for the suggested change - if an active player is willing to sit in a faction that doesn't suit their goals in torn just for a few merits then so be it, that's they choice that they're making however questionable it may be (;after all torn is all about making choices regarding how you want to play and which goals you want to achieve and, as a result, potentially foregoing some aspects of torn game play);.

Seriously it's time to stop painting the "commitment" aspect of these merits as being "harmful" or "an evil" - yes picking up all of the faction commitment awards isn't a trivial exercise (;hell I'd have gotten there long ago myself if I hadn't left my faction a few times in the past for various reasons);, but that's the whole point of the commitment awards (;you have to tough it out for 1000 days in the one faction to get them all);.

In my opinion this is just an exercise in some experienced players trying to shift the goalposts here in a rather hypocritical way because it suits them to do so - like I said if this was seriously being considered then they might as well throw away the "time spent in faction" award and just make it a player age-based award, because that is precisely what the "reworked" faction awards will amount to.

I'm getting bloody sick of this game turning into a namby pamby exercise where everyone is constantly looking to have any restriction that gets up their nose eased (;and to be honest some of the supporters here often express the same opinion when it comes to other suggestions which is where the hypocrisy comes into play); - people just need to harden the f**k up and live with their choices and/or the hand that they've been dealt.

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sHoTz

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Posted on Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:54:56
By bogie [148747]
Appreciate the feedback so far, positive and negative.

I like the idea of having it as days spent in a faction. Not indifferent from the 'days spent as a donator' so this definitely is something that CAN be done. Changed it to days spent in faction. I don't think it should be attacks made on another faction as we basically have this already in the form of respect merits.

Whilst the same logic could arguably be applied to marriage it doesn't nearly matter as much so I don't think any changes are necessary with them, you're not so dependent on your spouse's activity anyway and this is definitely not as restrictive as being stuck in a dead faction.


This makes 100%; sense

Rated + for a excellent thought out suggestion

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E3rks_
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Posted on Sat Jun 15, 2013 19:06:03
A total must!

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Ganon

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Posted on Sun Jun 16, 2013 17:01:37
By pimptastic [427672]
By bogie [148747]
By Gheed [661744]
";Loyalty"; ";Commitment"; Should be awarded imho


';Inactivity'; and ';Laziness'; should not.

I';m perfectly active. I just don';t jump factions daily.


Well, the faction hoppers dont like you getting merits from it.
And Bogie is about to put loyalty to extinction, well merits wise at least...

And whats next, putting days married as days merits instead of days married to the same person?
...

Last Edited: Sun Jun 16, 2013 17:07:00
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Ganon

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Posted on Sun Jun 16, 2013 17:08:26
By Butters [34298]
There';s a lot of smoke and mirrors in your reply there Hobbie but not a whole lot of legitimate justification for the suggested change - if an active player is willing to sit in a faction that doesn';t suit their goals in torn just for a few merits then so be it, that';s they choice that they';re making however questionable it may be (;;after all torn is all about making choices regarding how you want to play and which goals you want to achieve and, as a result, potentially foregoing some aspects of torn game play);;.

Seriously it';s time to stop painting the ";commitment"; aspect of these merits as being ";harmful"; or ";an evil"; - yes picking up all of the faction commitment awards isn';t a trivial exercise (;;hell I';d have gotten there long ago myself if I hadn';t left my faction a few times in the past for various reasons);;, but that';s the whole point of the commitment awards (;;you have to tough it out for 1000 days in the one faction to get them all);;.

In my opinion this is just an exercise in some experienced players trying to shift the goalposts here in a rather hypocritical way because it suits them to do so - like I said if this was seriously being considered then they might as well throw away the ";time spent in faction"; award and just make it a player age-based award, because that is precisely what the ";reworked"; faction awards will amount to.

I';m getting bloody sick of this game turning into a namby pamby exercise where everyone is constantly looking to have any restriction that gets up their nose eased (;;and to be honest some of the supporters here often express the same opinion when it comes to other suggestions which is where the hypocrisy comes into play);; - people just need to harden the f**k up and live with their choices and/or the hand that they';ve been dealt.


^^^ This makes 100%; sense to me...

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bogie

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Posted on Sun Jun 16, 2013 20:27:49
By Ganon [237543]
By Butters [34298]
There';;s a lot of smoke and mirrors in your reply there Hobbie but not a whole lot of legitimate justification for the suggested change - if an active player is willing to sit in a faction that doesn';;t suit their goals in torn just for a few merits then so be it, that';;s they choice that they';;re making however questionable it may be (;;;after all torn is all about making choices regarding how you want to play and which goals you want to achieve and, as a result, potentially foregoing some aspects of torn game play);;;.

Seriously it';;s time to stop painting the ";;commitment";; aspect of these merits as being ";;harmful";; or ";;an evil";; - yes picking up all of the faction commitment awards isn';;t a trivial exercise (;;;hell I';;d have gotten there long ago myself if I hadn';;t left my faction a few times in the past for various reasons);;;, but that';;s the whole point of the commitment awards (;;;you have to tough it out for 1000 days in the one faction to get them all);;;.

In my opinion this is just an exercise in some experienced players trying to shift the goalposts here in a rather hypocritical way because it suits them to do so - like I said if this was seriously being considered then they might as well throw away the ";;time spent in faction";; award and just make it a player age-based award, because that is precisely what the ";;reworked";; faction awards will amount to.

I';;m getting bloody sick of this game turning into a namby pamby exercise where everyone is constantly looking to have any restriction that gets up their nose eased (;;;and to be honest some of the supporters here often express the same opinion when it comes to other suggestions which is where the hypocrisy comes into play);;; - people just need to harden the f**k up and live with their choices and/or the hand that they';;ve been dealt.


^^^ This makes 100%;; sense to me...


Not to me. This is a game that you play, and any sort of merit that is designed to limit your gamePLAY is always going to be severely detrimental. I don't see why this is more favourable for older players like myself, if anything removing this is worse for people like me with all the merits than anything else. I'd be willing to sacrifice those 10 merits entirely.

Being in a faction is not about how long you can sit your inactive ass there, it's about how much respect you can earn for it. We should have never had commitment merits and only had respect earned merits. Now that we have those then commitment merits are entirely obsolete.

The very idea of even calling them commitment merits is itself absurd, it's not as if you're committing much by just being inactive, using your own energy towards gaining high levels of respect for the faction in even a short space of time is a far bigger commitment than doing nothing for 1000 days.

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Butters

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Posted on Tue Jun 18, 2013 04:49:37
That's still all smoke and mirrors - you get the rewards you deserve for the respect you generate for the faction already in the forum of faction upgrades.

Your initial stance was all about allowing faction hoppers to get these merits as well - now you're talking about not having them at all, so you need to be clear as to what it is you're after here.

If your stance is still the original one of changing the awards so that they are given for total days spent in a faction, as opposed to consecutive days in a faction, then the point regarding inactive players not "earning" the merits is rendered moot because they will still be getting them even after the proposed change (;and thus all this suggestion is about is a merit grab for faction hoppers);

If your proposing removing them altogether then good luck with that - it's hardly an improvement to the game to remove awards that players have been given.

The merits don't restrict game play at all (;you're just being melodramatic here);, rather they are a manifestation of the choice a player can make between choosing to remain loyal to the one faction - not because they'll get an award, but because they are in it for the long haul, or they can choose more of a mercenary-style approach where they faction hop for cash / perks / reputation / a challenge.

The medals themselves are thus a nice little acknowledgement of the choice to remain in the one faction for an extended period of time. Players who choose to faction hop do so for their own gain, whether it be better upgrades, $$$, a challenge or just a change of scenery, so to say they are losing out due to their choice to faction hop is questionable at best.

Just because you don't see the merit (;pardon the pun); in these awards being based on sticking with the one faction for a continuous period due to having long ago moved on from the stage where you feel staying in the one faction over a longer term is an achievement in itself that doesn't mean other players don't see the value in them.

I fully realise that middle-tier factions would like to have a lot more players flocking to them instead of just gravitating towards small handful of factions with high level / maxed out upgrades and cash to burn, but taking something away from players who choose not to mix in with the factions at the pointy end of the rankings and/or remain loyal to a faction they have helped build up still isn't going to solve the fundamental problems with the faction system (;ie. you'll be pissing off players who have chosen to remain loyal to their faction and not really doing anything to address the drawing power of the bigger / more heavily upgraded factions);.

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Butters

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Posted on Tue Jun 18, 2013 05:06:04
Apologies for the wall of text there - this is a discussion though so I was just putting forward my point of view.

Now that it should be clear as to where I'm coming from I'll step out of the discussion so that it doesn't descend into a back-and-forth argument.

(;I would have put this in as an edit in the post above but it's too much of a pita to edit out all of the semi-colons everywhere so that the edited post doesn't look like crap);

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Karty

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Posted on Sat Jul 20, 2013 19:02:45
Bump!

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bogie

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Posted on Sun Aug 18, 2013 15:21:57
By Karty [285221]
Bump!




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Classico

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Posted on Mon Aug 19, 2013 21:11:41
love u bogie. good point. but really, this commitment merit is affected the game too much.

R+



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bogie

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Posted on Fri Aug 23, 2013 00:47:56
Bump

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bogie

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Posted on Tue Aug 27, 2013 19:48:47
By bogie [148747]
Bump




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bogie

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Posted on Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:32:05
By bogie [148747]
By bogie [148747]
Bump






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bogie

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Posted on Wed Sep 04, 2013 13:32:00
By bogie [148747]
By bogie [148747]
By bogie [148747]
Bump








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bogie

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Posted on Sat Sep 07, 2013 17:03:55
By bogie [148747]
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Bump










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LDP

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Posted on Sat Sep 07, 2013 17:13:58
Not quite sure how this has more - rates than + rates?

The current merit system prevents so many players from going out, 'exploring' and actually having fun outside of their faction.



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TH1RT3EN

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Posted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 05:04:31
Personally, I think the current "Faction Loyalty" merits are just fine the way they are. I see it's been stated several times already (albeit in a round-about sort of way) that the current system is part of the game I know and enjoy. It can be a tough decision as to whether or not to stay in a faction to continue gaining merits, or to leave the faction and start the count over so as to benefit in some other way.

I like having an incentive to stay in one's current faction all the while having the option to leave.

My vote is for keeping this the way it is.

Rated -
(This is based on my opinion of the subject matter, not the quality or relativity of the thread)

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bogie

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Posted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:00:02
That's why^ LDP. People vote on it without actually understanding the suggestion or how the game works.

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Rino_007
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Posted on Mon Sep 09, 2013 18:38:39
How I feel is changing it from time in current faction to time in factions. the difference is obvious; allowing it to start counting all factions it allows them to go to factions that could be a better fit. removing it outright I strongly disagree with as it can be used by some as an advantage. I know ive maxed how many I can buy at my level but that would be giving me a pace of several levels more in an instant.

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bogie

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Posted on Sun Sep 15, 2013 16:10:38
By LDP [1580562]
Not quite sure how this has more - rates than + rates?

The current merit system prevents so many players from going out, 'exploring' and actually having fun outside of their faction.





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Killer

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Posted on Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:09:16
thats not a really good idea. A lot on which i can speak but in my opinion, it may cause big problems.

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bogie

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Posted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 21:25:06
By Anonymous_1234 [1710689]
thats not a really good idea. A lot on which i can speak but in my opinion, it may cause big problems.


Please let's hear your opinion on this and why keeping them will cause bigger problems than replacing them with the system I have proposed?

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WizardRubic

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Posted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 21:52:04
R+. Ched implements tons of stuff to make the game go a bit faster. Like slider bars in the item shops. I remember a time where you had to buy 100 bricks with like 200 clicks or something. This is the same thing. Save em 1000 days instead of 200 clicks. Even better in fact.

Maybe it'll cause whining if some players have stayed in a dead faction for 1k days.

My faction isn't dead and I wouldn't leave it so I dunno how it'd feel if I had to spend 1k days in a dead faction and all the new guys didn't. I'd assume suckish. Worth it though.

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LDP

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Posted on Sun Sep 22, 2013 23:55:10
Bump

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bogie

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Posted on Fri Sep 27, 2013 08:15:31
By WizardRubic [1615031]
Maybe it'll cause whining if some players have stayed in a dead faction for 1k days.


Welcome to Torn Anything will cause whining, even if someone benefits from something they'd still whine. The best course of action is just to ignore it and progress with what would be most beneficial for the game.

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Forum Main>>Suggestions>> Remove faction committment merits.
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