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MachineGunSteve

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Thread created on Fri Nov 01, 2013 14:14:38
Last replied to on Mon Feb 03, 2014 16:39:58
Are those of you who bought into the mystic of Obama being a true liberal still buying it? Has he lived up to your expectations?

How do you feel about this little nugget:

www.businessinsider.com/obama-orders-nsa-to-stop-spying-on-the-world-bank-imf-2013-10

"In response to Reuters inquiries, a senior Obama administration official said, "The United States is not conducting electronic surveillance targeting the headquarters of the World Bank or IMF in Washington."

The Obama administration official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, did not address whether the NSA had eavesdropped on the two entities in the past.

The first official said Obama had ordered a halt to such practices within the last few weeks, about the same time he instructed the NSA to curtail eavesdropping on the United Nations headquarters in New York."

Why hasn't Obama issued such orders in regards to the citizens of the USA? Why is he so concerned about the IMF, and the World Bank? Aren't those two entities the arch-ememies of the left?

Seems Obama may not be the champion of the people that all the leftists had hoped for, huh?

Let it be known... I DO NOT THINK THE REPUBLICANS WOULD BE DOING ANYTHING DIFFERENTLY ON THIS ISSUE.


Last Edited: Fri Nov 01, 2013 15:00:45
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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Fri Nov 01, 2013 16:15:23
I don't really think anyone could be doing anything different, under the circumstances.

The whole thing is the same Morality Tale as presented in the Reconstruction.
Either you resolve the fundamental ideologically tensions with bloodyminded ruthlessness, making it plain that there will be absolutely no place whatsoever for the defeated Confederates to continue existing,or you set yourself up for the inequities that even the 14th and 15th Amendments never truly resolved.

You cannot have a political COMPROMISE with ideological enemies without having exactly that - a compromise WITH ideological enemies. There is no political alternative to the concept of Augustan Peace, by which I mean: a Peace which is the result of total military victory.

I half-way dislike breaking it to you Steve, but despite moments of crushing doubt, as during the Syria crisis, Mr Obama has lived up to my expectations. I hate thinking of the alternative: Republican omnidirectional malevolence.

Last Edited: Fri Nov 01, 2013 16:21:23
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MachineGunSteve

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Posted on Fri Nov 01, 2013 16:31:31
Obama has lived up to my expectations as well, which is why I asked for the opinion of those who most probably had higher expectations of him... people who actually voted for him, lol.





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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Fri Nov 01, 2013 16:41:50
Steve,I would have voted for him.
True,I was not here Election-time, but I made absolutely no secret of my preference at the time.

I repeat: I hate thinking of the alternative: Republican omnidirectional malevolence.

Last Edited: Fri Nov 01, 2013 16:43:26
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MachineGunSteve

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Posted on Fri Nov 01, 2013 16:58:38
I understand your point, Darth... I didn't vote for him nor did I vote for the other guy.

Obama is no champion of the people, though he was touted as one. He is pretty much a status quo politician. That is my point.

Hopefully, all the party loyalists (on both sides) will remember this, come the next election cycle, and hopefully there will be some third party choices worth a vote.

Last Edited: Fri Nov 01, 2013 17:04:26
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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Fri Nov 01, 2013 17:13:41
Point taken.

He is pretty much a status quo politician.

My prime reason - not the only one - for picking him.
The prime Reason and Motive for having a Government, ANY Government!- in the first place.
Je maintiendrai -I Shall Maintai.

Obama is no champion of the people, though he was touted as one.

I should hope never to have to vote for someone who actually is one.
Meaning:I claim I saw right through the mummery for the masses.

hopefully there will be some third party choices

An Executive without a Machinery to command more than his own desk>
Heaven forbid!

Last Edited: Fri Nov 01, 2013 17:16:18
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Tolshortte

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Posted on Fri Nov 01, 2013 23:07:13
so far Obummer is exactly what I thought he would be. only reason I wanted Romney is I felt both were bad choices and Mitt came without Obamacare.



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BuckWyld

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Posted on Fri Nov 01, 2013 23:13:37
By MachineGunSteve [184119]
I understand your point, Darth... I didn't vote for him nor did I vote for the other guy.

Obama is no champion of the people, though he was touted as one. He is pretty much a status quo politician. That is my point.

Hopefully, all the party loyalists (on both sides) will remember this, come the next election cycle, and hopefully there will be some third party choices worth a vote.


I have heard talk of a 3rd party being introduced. I wonder what ever happened to the independent party. It's like they just disappeared from the mainstream entirely.

Last Edited: Sat Nov 02, 2013 08:32:43
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-El-

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Posted on Sat Nov 02, 2013 00:30:06
This almost looks like a dangerous thread to tread on.

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-Cindy-
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Posted on Sat Nov 02, 2013 02:56:28
A true liberal wouldn't stand for Obama's policies. He's what they call a modern liberal... not my cup of tea. A true liberal wouldn't creating and carrying on all of G.W.B.'s shitty policies.

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CravenTHC

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Posted on Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:11:16
By -Cindy- [747490]
A true liberal wouldn't stand for Obama's policies. He's what they call a modern liberal... not my cup of tea. A true liberal wouldn't creating and carrying on all of G.W.B.'s shitty policies.


GW's policies were neo-con. In some cases, they were close to what Clinton did with his time in office. In some cases they were par for the course with modern liberalism. Yet plenty of idiotic republicans touted his presidency. Obama is just a new phase in the world domination of the banks. They seem to have realized that they have the populations of the world placated enough to overtly manipulate government without much interference.

I find it odd that when questioned about spying on the people they simply deny, deny, deny. Then when it comes to spying on the IMF and World Bank it's an outright order to cease and desist. I wonder what could be the reasoning behind the two strategies...

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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:53:13
By CravenTHC [1569996]
By -Cindy- [747490]
A true liberal wouldn't stand for Obama's policies. He's what they call a modern liberal... not my cup of tea. A true liberal wouldn't creating and carrying on all of G.W.B.'s shitty policies.


GW's policies were neo-con. In some cases, they were close to what Clinton did with his time in office. In some cases they were par for the course with modern liberalism. Yet plenty of idiotic republicans touted his presidency. Obama is just a new phase in the world domination of the banks. They seem to have realized that they have the populations of the world placated enough to overtly manipulate government without much interference.

I find it odd that when questioned about spying on the people they simply deny, deny, deny. Then when it comes to spying on the IMF and World Bank it's an outright order to cease and desist. I wonder what could be the reasoning behind the two strategies...


Don't tick off your creditors. Simple, innit?


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MachineGunSteve

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Posted on Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:04:28
"An Executive without a Machinery to command more than his own desk>
Heaven forbid!"

It would be nice to see some concrete advances, and positive outcomes coming from the desk of Mr. Obama, or any president in the last 25 years for that matter... it is all well good and fine that they have the machinery, but it doesn't appear that Mr. Obama has much say over how the machinery runs... General Keith Alexander seems to be the one with all the power.

"Don't tick off your creditors. Simple, innit?"

Hmmm, I seem to remember a $700 billion or so bailout (and that is just what we know about) sent in the other direction. Perhaps we should have just let them all go belly up when we had the chance... not that we the people had any real say so in the matter... no the powerful frat boys all decided to have a circle-jerk, and the common tax-paying citizens were forced to play the pivot man position... and we got to pick up the tab for the beer.

Last Edited: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:08:05
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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:26:21
By and large I'm pretty OK with a Government that can keep the sewage system working.
Making the trains run on time is optional.

Check the South Sea Bubble - or Swag's rendition [pretty good one] of Law's crisis in France.

Unless the system is completely non-performing OR the common man is completely denied access to anything beyond starvation-level to start with, Joe Sixpack picks up the tabs. It only LOOKS different in the South Sea case b/c John Average was kept well below the income-level of Joe Sixpack.

The natural state of mankind - and certainly the 99.9999% - is Harvest Sensitive, i.e. just left to die when things go wrong.

Not that I am any suprised that things did go wrong.
From my POV: crisis happened just as predicted and when as predicted.

Whether you organise a marxist society, or a primitive agricultural one, OR a high-tech republic, things work out the same way.
OK, barring the invention of a ST-TNG style Food Replicator.

If you want a System in which the Financiers do not hold all the cards, the first essential step is to make sure it is a criminal offense to borrow for private consunption. Ditto for Government.
The downside to that is: 'Harvest Sensitive'.

Last Edited: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:40:13
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CravenTHC

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Posted on Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:47:34
Is that the only requisite you have for determining what is a successful government?

What about the various freedoms that can and will be barred from the people?

What about conveniences, luxuries, and other property that can be barred?

What about choice, free will, inspiration, hope?

In a tyrannical society these things do not exist. If/when the tyrants of the day are successful in their bid for dominance then what good is working plumbing? It will only matter when you are told to take a shit, because you certainly won't be free to use the latrine when you want to.

BTW The previously mentioned central banking entities are not our creditors. They are simply our conquerors. The "money" that they loan is non-existent. It is a phantom, an IOU with no value. All it will take is for a run to happen and the peoples of the world to realize that the privileged class have been spending our money all along, and loaning lines of code with dollar signs in front to the governments of the world.

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MachineGunSteve

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Posted on Sat Nov 02, 2013 14:01:05
By DarthBrogo [21801]
By and large I'm pretty OK with a Government that can keep the sewage system working.
Making the trains run on time is optional.

Check the South Sea Bubble - or Swag's rendition [pretty good one] of Law's crisis in France.

Unless the system is completely non-performing OR the common man is completely denied access to anything beyond starvation-level to start with, Joe Sixpack picks up the tabs. It only LOOKS different in the South Sea case b/c John Average was kept well below the income-level of Joe Sixpack.

The natural state of mankind - and certainly the 99.9999% - is Harvest Sensitive, i.e. just left to die when things go wrong.

Not that I am any suprised that things did go wrong.
From my POV: crisis happened just as predicted and when as predicted.

Whether you organise a marxist society, or a primitive agricultural one, OR a high-tech republic, things work out the same way.
OK, barring the invention of a ST-TNG style Food Replicator.

If you want a System in which the Financiers do not hold all the cards, the first essential step is to make sure it is a criminal offense to borrow for private consunption. Ditto for Government.
The downside to that is: 'Harvest Sensitive'.


Your expectations are pretty limited, Darth...

This is why I choose to keep my guns, so that when the sewage systems stop working, I will at least have a slight chance of blowing the heads off the elitist cretins who are eating caviar, while I wallow in the muck eating bugs... at least until their henchmen can get their boots on my neck.

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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Sat Nov 02, 2013 16:29:27
By CravenTHC [1569996]
Is that the only requisite you have for determining what is a successful government?

What about the various freedoms that can and will be barred from the people?

What about conveniences, luxuries, and other property that can be barred?

What about choice, free will, inspiration, hope?

In a tyrannical society these things do not exist. If/when the tyrants of the day are successful in their bid for dominance then what good is working plumbing? It will only matter when you are told to take a shit, because you certainly won't be free to use the latrine when you want to.

BTW The previously mentioned central banking entities are not our creditors. They are simply our conquerors. The "money" that they loan is non-existent. It is a phantom, an IOU with no value. All it will take is for a run to happen and the peoples of the world to realize that the privileged class have been spending our money all along, and loaning lines of code with dollar signs in front to the governments of the world.


Neither bubonic plague nor typhoid CARE about system of government, powerstructur or whatever.

The problems of human interaction are irrelevant to the problems of keeping rats and viruses at bay


And considering the qualities of our current crop of leaders - mostly confined to pronouncing TelePrompter without undue hickups - one should be content if they manage to run the sewage without catastophy striking.


Last Edited: Sat Nov 02, 2013 18:58:57
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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Sat Nov 02, 2013 16:42:51
By MachineGunSteve [184119]
By DarthBrogo [21801]
By and large I'm pretty OK with a Government that can keep the sewage system working.
Making the trains run on time is optional.

Check the South Sea Bubble - or Swag's rendition [pretty good one] of Law's crisis in France.

Unless the system is completely non-performing OR the common man is completely denied access to anything beyond starvation-level to start with, Joe Sixpack picks up the tabs. It only LOOKS different in the South Sea case b/c John Average was kept well below the income-level of Joe Sixpack.

The natural state of mankind - and certainly the 99.9999% - is Harvest Sensitive, i.e. just left to die when things go wrong.

Not that I am any suprised that things did go wrong.
From my POV: crisis happened just as predicted and when as predicted.

Whether you organise a marxist society, or a primitive agricultural one, OR a high-tech republic, things work out the same way.
OK, barring the invention of a ST-TNG style Food Replicator.

If you want a System in which the Financiers do not hold all the cards, the first essential step is to make sure it is a criminal offense to borrow for private consunption. Ditto for Government.
The downside to that is: 'Harvest Sensitive'.


Your expectations are pretty limited, Darth...

This is why I choose to keep my guns, so that when the sewage systems stop working, I will at least have a slight chance of blowing the heads off the elitist cretins who are eating caviar, while I wallow in the muck eating bugs... at least until their henchmen can get their boots on my neck.


There is no shortage of medieval plays on that theme. The plague gets them all. Not that I blame your sentiments.
You can argue [while being 100% right ] that the Black Plague was the direct consequences of a mercantile elite making bad choices. On this case, btw, the crucial error was allowing the dying residents of Caffa a way out rather than simply condemning them to die.

But in our current condition it is foolish to blame the elites.

It was not THEIR but OUR insistence that such things as consumer credit should be tolerated rather than severely PUNISHED.

Human life SHOULD be harsh and austere. I wish wealth only upon my enemies, not on myself or my friends.



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CravenTHC

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Posted on Mon Nov 04, 2013 23:48:16
By DarthBrogo [21801]
Human life SHOULD be harsh and austere. I wish wealth only upon my enemies, not on myself or my friends.


This is one of those times when I'm not sure what the motivation is for this opinion. If you're a masochist then fine, I get it, but why "should" it be?

In the context of the health of the human mind, severely austere conditions would bring on much stress and anxiety. These things are very clearly detrimental to mental and physical health. The only real purpose this serves is to motivate the underclass to work harder, but when you don't reward them with promotion and pay raises from time to time they begin to take on these symptoms anyway. Many to the point of suicide or worse.

I believe that one can live a perfectly comfortable life for under $3,000 per month here in my home state. Of course that varies, but the point is that it doesn't take a truckload of money to bring happiness. For most of us anything above abject poverty is a positive thing. If austerity brings you happiness then more power to you.

"Life's a game made for everyone, and love is the prize."
-Avicii

Last Edited: Mon Nov 04, 2013 23:49:44
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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Tue Nov 05, 2013 08:20:25
Because human life - in the biological sense - is regulated by selective shortage, and not by abundance.


Last Edited: Tue Nov 05, 2013 08:28:48
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MachineGunSteve

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Posted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 02:44:48
I guess there are no Obama fans anymore, lol.

The lights came on, and they all ran for the cracks and crevices I guess.

:@

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-El-

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Posted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 02:46:45
Call them out then.

That settles that.

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Seba_Nile

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Posted on Thu Nov 28, 2013 21:28:53
Republican, Democrats all murderers ''the stuff people do for the struggle of power is crazy''

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MachineGunSteve

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Posted on Sat Nov 30, 2013 17:52:51
By Seba_Nile [1782274]
Republican, Democrats all murderers ''the stuff people do for the struggle of power is crazy''


All murderers? Are you off your meds?

Stop posting, before you blow a gasket.

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Posted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 18:32:05
Well, yeah, when you consider what BOTH parties do to perpetuate all the wars America has been in, and also when you consider the Oklahoma City bombing and 9/11 attacks, also things the government had a hand in, yes, they are murderers. Both parties. They're two sides of the same coin, really.

And regarding the OP, Romtard would have done the same thing. We still would have had an Affordable Care Act. Only the spin would be that Romney was extending his Massachusetts plan to the rest of America. He'd have also been caught with NSA spying - that should be absolutely no surprise anyway seeing as he was totally with Bush when they started "officially" and "lawfully" spying on Americans. We'd also still be stuck in the middle east, and instead of some "weak, apologetic" president who lets those "terrorists" get what they want, we'd be having a warmongering president who agitates them.

The truth is there is an elite establishment that controls everything from behind the scenes, giving us the ILLUSION that there is choice. When people say Americans deserve what they get because they voted for the people in office, it's nothing but a myth. This elite, for over 100 years now, has been controlling the media (it's not some "conspiracy" really, since they technically bought/own the papers and television stations) and pre-selecting/grooming all their political candidates. Then it comes down to Americans picking red or blue. If you notice, they're always squabling over the most insignificant things like gay marriage, abortion, who-said-who-on-whatever-dumb-subject, but when it comes to the real important issues that could sink or save America, they'll come to the same course of action one way or another... just with a different spin on things to keep their little goodcop/badcop charade going.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=C163ILTfAbw

Last Edited: Mon Dec 02, 2013 18:47:08
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Posted on Tue Dec 03, 2013 20:22:47
By Ebony [1481869]
Well, yeah, when you consider what BOTH parties do to perpetuate all the wars America has been in, and also when you consider the Oklahoma City bombing and 9/11 attacks, also things the government had a hand in, yes, they are murderers. Both parties. They're two sides of the same coin, really.

And regarding the OP, Romtard would have done the same thing. We still would have had an Affordable Care Act. Only the spin would be that Romney was extending his Massachusetts plan to the rest of America. He'd have also been caught with NSA spying - that should be absolutely no surprise anyway seeing as he was totally with Bush when they started "officially" and "lawfully" spying on Americans. We'd also still be stuck in the middle east, and instead of some "weak, apologetic" president who lets those "terrorists" get what they want, we'd be having a warmongering president who agitates them.

The truth is there is an elite establishment that controls everything from behind the scenes, giving us the ILLUSION that there is choice. When people say Americans deserve what they get because they voted for the people in office, it's nothing but a myth. This elite, for over 100 years now, has been controlling the media (it's not some "conspiracy" really, since they technically bought/own the papers and television stations) and pre-selecting/grooming all their political candidates. Then it comes down to Americans picking red or blue. If you notice, they're always squabling over the most insignificant things like gay marriage, abortion, who-said-who-on-whatever-dumb-subject, but when it comes to the real important issues that could sink or save America, they'll come to the same course of action one way or another... just with a different spin on things to keep their little goodcop/badcop charade going.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=C163ILTfAbw


I was about to say this. I find it ludicrous that people point the figure at a particular president and lay all the blame there.

Sure they have a role to play, but by and large it's the whole establishment that's been rigged from the get go. I'm not spouting NWO shit here, but stating that as a whole, the direction of policy and action has been pretty much linear since Nixon. Obama is just a cog in a well established machine.
The only difference is he has been trying to appear somewhat socialist, but it's a thin veneer.



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Posted on Wed Dec 04, 2013 02:30:40
The federal reserve has your government in its pocket. You Americans are going to have to take control of your country before the banks have total control over you.
The Fed has as raped the US and you guys supplied the lube.
You are living in a policed stated were you think you are. Free.

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IN_COLD_BLOOD

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Posted on Wed Dec 04, 2013 05:53:52
By MachineGunSteve [184119]
Obama has lived up to my expectations as well, which is why I asked for the opinion of those who most probably had higher expectations of him... people who actually voted for him, lol.






you must have had extremely low expectations lol

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Posted on Wed Dec 04, 2013 05:57:20
By Hades [1728299]
The federal reserve has your government in its pocket. You Americans are going to have to take control of your country before the banks have total control over you.
The Fed has as raped the US and you guys supplied the lube.
You are living in a policed stated were you think you are. Free.


Oh no - not all of us are retarded dude lol. Some of us see exactly what is going on and see exactly how screwed we are. What am i doing about it? Saving my ass by going back into the military. Of course im not going gung-ho this time, just going into the coast guard - very similar to the navy (rank/rate structure wise).

On another note JFK tried to get rid of the federal reserve - look where that got him (just a theory, thought never proven, if you connect the dots, makes a hol lotta sense).

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Hades

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Posted on Wed Dec 04, 2013 08:21:38
I believe JFK was a product of the federal reserve silencing him so as to maintain their control.

Join the military though?
Americas wars are a major factor to its demise with the military spending just at crazy unsustainable levels.

The military does what the banks tell the government todo anyway.

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Seba_Nile

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Posted on Fri Dec 06, 2013 19:35:52
Wanna hear a joke? Obama, wanna hear another one? Bush

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Forum Main>>Non Related>>Politics & Law>> All you Obama Fans...
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