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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Sat Oct 12, 2013 19:06:30
I'm sure that the right Ideas are spread among the Parties. I'm positive that Opinions on both ACA and Debt are not sharply party-divided.

But on compromise,I must point out that at this point, the GOP finds itself unable to compromise within the confines of its own tents, just like the Labour Party in the 'seventies. And that spells electoral disaster.

I also think there is a need for a deeper ... think-session... on the role of paid work in society.
I rather suspect that this will only enter a political phase very late in the programme.

In simple terms: the amount of man-hours needed to produce the amount of goods that an average household consumes has been steadily declining ... at least since WWII. { How many man-hours does it take to produce a a DVD? ). The demand for human labour is not unlimited.

Whether you talk about Big Society [as per David Cameron] or Negative Income Tax or FlexWork - they are based on a dawning recognition that there are limits as to how much of the product Human Labour can actually be marketed and sold.

There is an unintentional and perverse parallel with the medical industry here - the products involved have a very low price-elasticity. Even if you were to offer me haircuts at 10 cents, I would still not be willing to have a haircut every 5 minutes or so.

Last Edited: Sat Oct 12, 2013 19:25:58
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Tolshortte

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Posted on Sat Oct 12, 2013 20:11:19
while labor needs may be decreasing, the prices are not reflecting this trend. and in most markets labor is the highest cost of production, transport, storage.

which brings the great divide we see today. corps are making more money and Joe is making less. I personally say that consumers use the only power they have and boycott corps who are doing this but for some the idea is to simple. Instead they wish to increase tax on the money makers have it redistributed to them via social programs so they can in turn return it to the source of which they received it.

this approach does nothing to solve the problem. it doesn't balance out the global comparisons of earnings and puts the general population in a more reliant position. the only winner in this is the govt and increases their power over the people in which it is supposed to serve.

if we as a whole quit buying the most blatant offenders products they would conform. most people simply don't realize how much their operating costs are regardless of the sea of money they possess. Quite simply their need to sell their wares far exceeds our need to buy it.

this would cause a chain effect that would cause even the more depended upon products we need to conform. ie: if you aren't buying tvs, dvds, blu rays, etc etc then less transporting would be needed thus less fuel, resulting in energy companies to take a hit.

the demand would still remain for such products if you didn't buy them from Sony for example. so this notion that jobs would disappear entirely is false. they would simply relocate to companies that were found more acceptable to the masses.

if we have learned anything its that money speaks volumes. take their money and they will do whatever is necessary to comply to the demands of the public. their investors will make sure of it.

this obviously runs much deeper than can be touched on in a single post, but it should outline the general idea. again if WE THE PEOPLE stand UNITED our demands on the most common goals would be met.



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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Sat Oct 12, 2013 23:08:17
Whn I say that human labor is highly price inelastic, I say that pricing of labour has preciously little impact on demand. So,yes: while labor demands decrease, the prices wont reflect that trend.

People don't unite easily. Certainly not in societies that preach individualism and practise individal liberty. You can observe that in trade union membership e.g. here:
www.publicpurpose.com/lm-unn2003.htm
Or membership of political parties for that matter. Here.
www.economist.com/node/17306082

As I noted previously: wealth is the exchange of assets.[And not the assets per se ].
Taxation policy, as I see it, should reflect that.

Personal taxes by and large should be based on purchases.
Business taxes by and large should be based on turnover.
{ Coincidentally, this will also cut out tax dodges via dutch and irish sandwiches - but that is merely a happy coincidence rather than a primary reason for the move. A consequence rather than a motive.)

But none of that has a great deal to do with the basic realization that human labour cannot indefinitely be treated as the primary source of purchasing power of and for the population at that large.
It is after all only one factor of production.

But that it was treated as such for a long time appears to have more to do with public policy in the 19th and early 20th century than with economic factuality.


Last Edited: Sat Oct 12, 2013 23:31:19
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BuckWyld

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Posted on Sun Oct 13, 2013 00:10:54
By Tolshortte [648554]
again if WE THE PEOPLE stand UNITED our demands on the most common goals would be met.


Or possibly tear gassed. Then arrested. With protesting now being illegal "if secret service determines it to be a threat". Wouldn't be surprised 1 bit if there's something in there about taking away our freedom of speech, or at least in the works of doing so. But hey Amercia wanted change.

I've read the rest of what you guys are talking about. I have nothing to comment on aside from agreeing with MGS on firing every last damn 1 of them.

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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Sun Oct 13, 2013 08:06:16
By BuckWyld [1009930]


Or possibly tear gassed. Then arrested. With protesting now being illegal "if secret service determines it to be a threat". Wouldn't be surprised 1 bit if there's something in there about taking away our freedom of speech, or at least in the works of doing so. But hey Amercia wanted change.

I've read the rest of what you guys are talking about. I have nothing to comment on aside from agreeing with MGS on firing every last damn 1 of them.




What, pray tell, did you all think that the domestic consequences would be of failing to define TWOT [the war on terror] in terms of Total War, rather than as a video game?

You've had the Civil War, did you not? What were the political consequences of failing to completely, utterly and totally subjugate the Rebels? Rosa Parks could tell you.

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Gungrave
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Posted on Wed Oct 16, 2013 21:48:52
By DarthBrogo [21801]
Increase taxes, decrease expenditure.

And don't raise that ceiling at all.


and yet they will still raise that debt ceiling because "hey why not lets do it because we will never be able to pay it back anyway"....

everytime they raise the debt ceiling it is as if they are trying to mend an amputated limb with bandaides because eventually that will come back to destroy this country in time.

Last Edited: Wed Oct 16, 2013 21:49:33
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dunmugmeh

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Posted on Wed Oct 16, 2013 22:04:19
America is like the Roman empire was, a heavily bloated government wasting money on massive vanity projects like oil wars for example and not having enough cash to look after its own citizens.

The Roman Empire collapsed despite having a massive military budget.

Taxation is bad, but as time goes by taxation increases until something drastic happens to put a stop to it ie society collapsing/rebelling against its government.

There are too many pen pushers and paper clip counters in the worlds governments that is why a large proportion of our income gets taken away from us.

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IN_COLD_BLOOD

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Posted on Wed Oct 16, 2013 22:16:10
By BuckWyld [1009930]
By Tolshortte [648554]
again if WE THE PEOPLE stand UNITED our demands on the most common goals would be met.


Or possibly tear gassed. Then arrested. With protesting now being illegal "if secret service determines it to be a threat". Wouldn't be surprised 1 bit if there's something in there about taking away our freedom of speech, or at least in the works of doing so. But hey Amercia wanted change.

I've read the rest of what you guys are talking about. I have nothing to comment on aside from agreeing with MGS on firing every last damn 1 of them.


yea we are turning into Obama's communist dream 1 step at a time, people are too foolish to realize that. The guy belonged to the socialist party before joining democrats (and he only switched because you're not going to win an election outside the 2 major parties). His beliefs are still the same. People don't want to hear that though. I dunno if it's because his black and the media has some white guilt trip goin on or if he legit controls what they put out there - but networks aside from fox news need to start asking him the hard questions about why he has not been able to do the job that was asked of him, that he promised to get done in 2008.

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BuckWyld

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Posted on Thu Oct 17, 2013 00:35:58
By IN_COLD_BLOOD [1613784]
By BuckWyld [1009930]
By Tolshortte [648554]
again if WE THE PEOPLE stand UNITED our demands on the most common goals would be met.


Or possibly tear gassed. Then arrested. With protesting now being illegal "if secret service determines it to be a threat". Wouldn't be surprised 1 bit if there's something in there about taking away our freedom of speech, or at least in the works of doing so. But hey Amercia wanted change.

I've read the rest of what you guys are talking about. I have nothing to comment on aside from agreeing with MGS on firing every last damn 1 of them.


yea we are turning into Obama's communist dream 1 step at a time, people are too foolish to realize that. The guy belonged to the socialist party before joining democrats (and he only switched because you're not going to win an election outside the 2 major parties). His beliefs are still the same. People don't want to hear that though. I dunno if it's because his black and the media has some white guilt trip goin on or if he legit controls what they put out there - but networks aside from fox news need to start asking him the hard questions about why he has not been able to do the job that was asked of him, that he promised to get done in 2008.


The thing im not understanding is. (& im sure one of the brainiacs will fill me in, in a very sarcastic tone. ) Richard Nixon resigned over Watergate, with the threat of a guaranteed impeachment. With the whole NSA & Edward Snowden whistle blowing on spying on our personal information & conversations. Does that not reside in the same category?

& the more im learning about Obamacare, it really is a scary concept to know that i could have a lean put on my house that I've paid gallantly on the last 7 yrs. & my bank account, & forfeiture of my tax return, Because i don't want your insurance. Not to mention that it completely abolishes medicaid/medicare, which i thought i was entitled to upon retirement, seeing as i've paid into it my entire working life. Why the f**k is this asshole still in office?

All the bullshit people gave Clinton for getting his knob slobbed (i liked Bill btw) & yet were so tolerant of this f**kwad. I don't get it man. Are people really that blind because the dude is a couple shades dark of being white? Are we as a nation really that easily susceptible to being brainwashed over a few good speeches & the rite Hollywood stars endorsing someone?

& thats not to say the Republican party is not responsible for some of the strife were going through. Im sure their hands like a lot of being clean as well. But the shit Obama is trying to pull on us. Im seeing some people revokeing their citizenship, & starting fresh somewhere less corrupt.

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-El-

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Posted on Thu Oct 17, 2013 00:58:02
Only in America.

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Cyrax

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Posted on Thu Oct 17, 2013 00:58:17
There are plenty of places for hard working Americans to go to. Costs a bit to set yourself up, but it's possible. Just an idea. Bailing early from the ship is a bit of shake-up but for some it may be a viable choice.

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BuckWyld

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Posted on Thu Oct 17, 2013 01:17:30
By -El- [463504]
Only in America.


NYC is gonna be 1 scary place if the shit hits the fan. Especially for people who have youngins to look after. No doubt in my mind you'll do what you gotta do. Would hate to have to see anyone go through it though.

By Cyrax [249578]
There are plenty of places for hard working Americans to go to. Costs a bit to set yourself up, but it's possible. Just an idea. Bailing early from the ship is a bit of shake-up but for some it may be a viable choice.


Way ahead of ya man. Been doing my research for a while now. The American dollar go's pretty far in Thailand.

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IN_COLD_BLOOD

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Posted on Thu Oct 17, 2013 03:19:57
By BuckWyld [1009930]
By -El- [463504]
Only in America.


NYC is gonna be 1 scary place if the shit hits the fan. Especially for people who have youngins to look after. No doubt in my mind you'll do what you gotta do. Would hate to have to see anyone go through it though.

By Cyrax [249578]
There are plenty of places for hard working Americans to go to. Costs a bit to set yourself up, but it's possible. Just an idea. Bailing early from the ship is a bit of shake-up but for some it may be a viable choice.


Way ahead of ya man. Been doing my research for a while now. The American dollar go's pretty far in Thailand.


Went to pattaya in thailand 3 times... good times... phuket is good too, nice beaches. You could probably buy a nice house for like 40,000 US, maybe less.

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Ri0t

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Posted on Thu Oct 17, 2013 04:04:44
Good news! Our government is back up

Always Buying Meds & Drugs & Flowers! Mail me with prices.
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Gungrave
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Posted on Thu Oct 17, 2013 04:30:44
By Ri0t [1581900]
Good news! Our government is back up


correction its just temporarily back up til december and they've raised the debt ceiling....f**king dumbasses cant get shit done

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_TheCrow_

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Posted on Thu Oct 17, 2013 09:07:34
By -El- [463504]
Only in America.


How much did it hurt you to not say "only in the south"? Just wondering.

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MachineGunSteve

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Posted on Thu Oct 17, 2013 13:12:59
By BuckWyld [1009930]
By IN_COLD_BLOOD [1613784]
By BuckWyld [1009930]
By Tolshortte [648554]
again if WE THE PEOPLE stand UNITED our demands on the most common goals would be met.


Or possibly tear gassed. Then arrested. With protesting now being illegal "if secret service determines it to be a threat". Wouldn't be surprised 1 bit if there's something in there about taking away our freedom of speech, or at least in the works of doing so. But hey Amercia wanted change.

I've read the rest of what you guys are talking about. I have nothing to comment on aside from agreeing with MGS on firing every last damn 1 of them.


yea we are turning into Obama's communist dream 1 step at a time, people are too foolish to realize that. The guy belonged to the socialist party before joining democrats (and he only switched because you're not going to win an election outside the 2 major parties). His beliefs are still the same. People don't want to hear that though. I dunno if it's because his black and the media has some white guilt trip goin on or if he legit controls what they put out there - but networks aside from fox news need to start asking him the hard questions about why he has not been able to do the job that was asked of him, that he promised to get done in 2008.


The thing im not understanding is. (& im sure one of the brainiacs will fill me in, in a very sarcastic tone. ) Richard Nixon resigned over Watergate, with the threat of a guaranteed impeachment. With the whole NSA & Edward Snowden whistle blowing on spying on our personal information & conversations. Does that not reside in the same category?

& the more im learning about Obamacare, it really is a scary concept to know that i could have a lean put on my house that I've paid gallantly on the last 7 yrs. & my bank account, & forfeiture of my tax return, Because i don't want your insurance. Not to mention that it completely abolishes medicaid/medicare, which i thought i was entitled to upon retirement, seeing as i've paid into it my entire working life. Why the f**k is this asshole still in office?

All the bullshit people gave Clinton for getting his knob slobbed (i liked Bill btw) & yet were so tolerant of this f**kwad. I don't get it man. Are people really that blind because the dude is a couple shades dark of being white? Are we as a nation really that easily susceptible to being brainwashed over a few good speeches & the rite Hollywood stars endorsing someone?

& thats not to say the Republican party is not responsible for some of the strife were going through. Im sure their hands like a lot of being clean as well. But the shit Obama is trying to pull on us. Im seeing some people revokeing their citizenship, & starting fresh somewhere less corrupt.


It would be hard for anyone in Washington to bring charges against Obama these days due in large part to the fact that they are all just as guilty as he is. Back in Nixon's day, there were still a few honest politicians in Washington, so they could act justifiably enraged by his actions, plus Watergate was on TV, and in newspapers 24/7 for years. The public outcry was huge. Obama has largely stayed above the fray on the whole NSA thing thus far, but from what I have read there is going to be another big batch of Snowden docs coming out soon, which will show even more data collections going on in other countries, so this mess could land at Obama's feet.

Clinton's only mistake was in being such a huge liar. All he had to say was, "I made a mistake." And the whole thing would have been treated as the embarrassment it was, but instead he had to go the denial route, and so the impeachment nuts in the other party came out for some revenge over past slights to their cause... Nixon, Judge Bork, etc, etc. Just party politics... nothing serious.

Obamacare is a mess. But, it is a mess that the electorate sent Obama to Washington to create... and he did. It is a situation were lots of people wanted this seemingly well intentioned government fix for all our ills, but little attention was paid to the details of how it would work, and fewer details were paid to the logistics of making it work. Thus far, two weeks into it... only the super sick and needy are signing up. These are not the people that are needed to sign up to make it work. Young, healthy, working people are required to sign up to make it work... and so far they are not... so all of us will get to pay a whole lot more for our insurance to make up the difference. Seems fair to me.

Now we are back to the future. The republicans have all but shot themselves in the foot politically over trying to stop Obamacare via shutting down the government... and what was accomplished? Nothing. They get to do it all over again in 3 months or so. The national debt keeps growing. Obamacare is here, and the more left-leaning side has gained considerable clout in the eyes of the voters.

We are well on our way to socialism in this nation.

I predict that Elisabeth Warren will be the next president of the USA. You read it here first.

Last Edited: Thu Oct 17, 2013 13:17:05
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-El-

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Posted on Thu Oct 17, 2013 14:24:44
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
By -El- [463504]
Only in America.


How much did it hurt you to not say "only in the south"? Just wondering.


Oh I can still say it without any fear of retribution.

Now this little bromance you keep trying to initiate isn't working.

Let it go already.

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