| Forum Main>>Non Related>>Politics & Law>> Trayvon Martin, Troy Davis: race and punishment |
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
_TheCrow_
ID: 686314
Level: 40
Posts: 4724
Score: 2943
|
Posted on Sun May 06, 2012 21:12:49
|
Also, I'm not (unlike yourself) ignoring all the other facts. You know like how you kept stating that in the 911 call (which you obviously didn't listen to) he exited his truck and chased Trayvon after he had been told not to when you can clearly hear him exit the vehicle and become winded from running, THEN the dispatcher said they didn't need him to follow, with which he replied "ok" and you can hear his breathing return to normal.
But you've yet to address or correct yourself there, you still go on with "But his gf said _____ so that's what I believe". And you wann talk about being bias and not being reasonable?
|
Me- "I received a 30 day ban, then 4 days later I noticed it became a 60 day ban. Why?
Staff- "Because I can" DIRECT QUOTE
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
TedThomas
ID: 887131
Level: 55
Posts: 21169
Score: 15774
|
Posted on Sun May 06, 2012 21:25:25
|
You also have the right to face the consequences for making the bad decision of putting yourself in that situation in the first place...
|
 |
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
_TheCrow_
ID: 686314
Level: 40
Posts: 4724
Score: 2943
|
Posted on Mon May 07, 2012 05:28:33
|
By TedThomas [887131]
You also have the right to face the consequences for making the bad decision of putting yourself in that situation in the first place... |
Oh the irony....
So if Zimmerman was profiling and/or following Trayvon, no matter who started the confrontation that resulted in a death, Zimmerman is at fault right?..... So being followed and looked at gives everyone the privilege to smash the followers head into the ground..... right? You talk about "Stand Your Ground" laws being wrong, but if "Your're allowed beat the f**k out of anyone who looks at you wrong" becomes a law then we're all screwed.....
Can I ask you a hypothetical question? If it turns out that (I know it would pain you to think this way, but it's just a "what if") Trayvon did in fact attack Zimmerman on his way back to the car, would your opinion change at all? If we all found out that Trayvon did in fact attack Zimmerman after he had given up following was on his way to his vehicle, what would your opinion be? Would Trayvon still be in the right for attacking someone who had PREVIOUSLY followed him yet walked away? If Trayvon then became the aggressor, would it then be ok for Zimmerman to have protected himself or would Zimmerman still be wrong for defending himself?
My guess is
A) You don't respond...
B) "Well since I know the facts and noone else does, I don't have to answer anything hypothetical because I'm already correct about this so noone can question me."
C) "We're not arguing hypothetical situations, you're just a sheltered moron who's wrong and can't admit it."
D) "I am a scientist and a genius so bow befor me!!"
E) A mix of B-D.
I'm guessing E, but leaning towards A
|
Me- "I received a 30 day ban, then 4 days later I noticed it became a 60 day ban. Why?
Staff- "Because I can" DIRECT QUOTE
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
TedThomas
ID: 887131
Level: 55
Posts: 21169
Score: 15774
|
Posted on Mon May 07, 2012 06:57:20
|
Lol.
I like however you set up the scenario, Zimmerman was just some innocent guy who got beat up by a thug who had no choice but to shoot him.
I never said "your're allowed beat the f**k out of anyone who looks at you wrong", nice straw man though. I do however believe that if a stranger who has no authority to harass you approaches you and tries to get physical with you, you have the right to get physical with them (because they might be a crazy person with a gun, for example) and that they do not then have the right to shoot you if they start losing the confrontation.
Apparently you want to live in a country where whenever there is a fight, the losing guy gets to shoot the other person. Sounds great, feel free to keep that policy on your side of the country and maybe you can thin each other out a little.
Yes it would make a difference if Zimmerman started it or not...Its the difference between self defense and voluntary manslaughter. I still think he used excessive force and could face civil charges, but probably shouldnt go to jail.
Cute guesses though, bet you put a lot of thought into them... 
Last Edited: Mon May 07, 2012 06:57:44
|
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
-El-
ID: 463504
Level: 72
Posts: 1954
Score: 1041
|
Posted on Mon May 07, 2012 12:02:47
|
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
By -El- [463504]
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
By -El- [463504]
o_O
Crow, your argument carries as much weight as a feather on a fat bitch. |
So it carries about as much weight as your "the 250lb man that didn't weigh 250lbs should have tossed him around like a rag doll" and "only pussies stop people from bashing their head into the ground" arguments, or Teds "family and friends have no reason to lie so I believe the gf who wasn't on the line during the altercation, but since it makes more sense to me anyone who doesn't agree with me is a f**king moron" argument.
Keep preaching brother, maybe soon you'll both belies your own bs you're shoveling. |
It's hard for you to agree to disagree with someone isn't it lol? |
Depends on how the disagreements is approached. I can agree to disagree all day long with other subjects but somehow this subject brings about personally insults (moron, "sheltered", oblivious o common sense, racist, etc.). Had this all been a civil conversation then there is room for agreeing to disagree, however when know it alls like Ted put their half a cent into it just because they like arguing and trying to undermine people then shit does get taken personal and agreeing to disagree doesn't come into play. |
lol wtf?
Stop lying. Serious.
You're guilty of the same shit you accuse Ted of.
And who's being racist? You brought up race many times before Ted even hopped on this subject on another thread. There isn't a civil conversation with you. You wanna force your opinion on people then have a hissy fit when they don't agree.
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
_TheCrow_
ID: 686314
Level: 40
Posts: 4724
Score: 2943
|
Posted on Mon May 07, 2012 16:40:29
|
By -El- [463504]
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
By -El- [463504]
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
By -El- [463504]
o_O
Crow, your argument carries as much weight as a feather on a fat bitch. |
So it carries about as much weight as your "the 250lb man that didn't weigh 250lbs should have tossed him around like a rag doll" and "only pussies stop people from bashing their head into the ground" arguments, or Teds "family and friends have no reason to lie so I believe the gf who wasn't on the line during the altercation, but since it makes more sense to me anyone who doesn't agree with me is a f**king moron" argument.
Keep preaching brother, maybe soon you'll both belies your own bs you're shoveling. |
It's hard for you to agree to disagree with someone isn't it lol? |
Depends on how the disagreements is approached. I can agree to disagree all day long with other subjects but somehow this subject brings about personally insults (moron, "sheltered", oblivious o common sense, racist, etc.). Had this all been a civil conversation then there is room for agreeing to disagree, however when know it alls like Ted put their half a cent into it just because they like arguing and trying to undermine people then shit does get taken personal and agreeing to disagree doesn't come into play. |
lol wtf?
Stop lying. Serious.
You're guilty of the same shit you accuse Ted of.
And who's being racist? You brought up race many times before Ted even hopped on this subject on another thread. There isn't a civil conversation with you. You wanna force your opinion on people then have a hissy fit when they don't agree.
|
Yes I'M known around here for shoving my opinion down peoples throats and throwing hissy fits. And you wanna talk about not being civil gramps? You're the one that began spouting off all the "boy" and "junior" comments my way cut the righteous shit will ya.
Funny, befor this Trayvon shit, we used to talk football and shit no problem and be civil about things (except when Emporer was involved), but now after one topic you claim I force my opinion down peoples throats and have hissy fits and I cannot be civil. Keep preaching pal.
|
Me- "I received a 30 day ban, then 4 days later I noticed it became a 60 day ban. Why?
Staff- "Because I can" DIRECT QUOTE
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
bosox
ID: 278767
Level: 44
Posts: 6771
Score: 2506
|
Posted on Mon May 07, 2012 17:21:55
|
El, this thread became a race thread when it contained "race" in the title. Cases like this take the attention away from the actual murder and handling of the case, and and put it on the color of the skin, and determining how "white" Zimmerman really is and whether or not hoodies are associated with "blacks." Pretty lame, if you ask me.
|
I buy bulk Morphine |
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
-El-
ID: 463504
Level: 72
Posts: 1954
Score: 1041
|
Posted on Mon May 07, 2012 17:31:46
|
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
By -El- [463504]
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
By -El- [463504]
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
By -El- [463504]
o_O
Crow, your argument carries as much weight as a feather on a fat bitch. |
So it carries about as much weight as your "the 250lb man that didn't weigh 250lbs should have tossed him around like a rag doll" and "only pussies stop people from bashing their head into the ground" arguments, or Teds "family and friends have no reason to lie so I believe the gf who wasn't on the line during the altercation, but since it makes more sense to me anyone who doesn't agree with me is a f**king moron" argument.
Keep preaching brother, maybe soon you'll both belies your own bs you're shoveling. |
It's hard for you to agree to disagree with someone isn't it lol? |
Depends on how the disagreements is approached. I can agree to disagree all day long with other subjects but somehow this subject brings about personally insults (moron, "sheltered", oblivious o common sense, racist, etc.). Had this all been a civil conversation then there is room for agreeing to disagree, however when know it alls like Ted put their half a cent into it just because they like arguing and trying to undermine people then shit does get taken personal and agreeing to disagree doesn't come into play. |
lol wtf?
Stop lying. Serious.
You're guilty of the same shit you accuse Ted of.
And who's being racist? You brought up race many times before Ted even hopped on this subject on another thread. There isn't a civil conversation with you. You wanna force your opinion on people then have a hissy fit when they don't agree.
|
Yes I'M known around here for shoving my opinion down peoples throats and throwing hissy fits. And you wanna talk about not being civil gramps? You're the one that began spouting off all the "boy" and "junior" comments my way cut the righteous shit will ya.
Funny, befor this Trayvon shit, we used to talk football and shit no problem and be civil about things (except when Emporer was involved), but now after one topic you claim I force my opinion down peoples throats and have hissy fits and I cannot be civil. Keep preaching pal. |
Eh no...and try not to twist words around.
You bring up Ted when I'm speaking/quoting directly to you. For what?
You brought up being civil, not me. Do you ever follow the shit you write? Why is it you ignore things written to you in the first place?
Calling you "boy" & "junior" is hitting your self esteem? That "gramps" shit doesn't bother me lol. A son consistently making the honor roll makes my old ass look good.
Last Edited: Mon May 07, 2012 17:32:14
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
TedThomas
ID: 887131
Level: 55
Posts: 21169
Score: 15774
|
Posted on Mon May 07, 2012 20:14:13
|
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
Also, I'm not (unlike yourself) ignoring all the other facts. You know like how you kept stating that in the 911 call (which you obviously didn't listen to) he exited his truck and chased Trayvon after he had been told not to when you can clearly hear him exit the vehicle and become winded from running, THEN the dispatcher said they didn't need him to follow, with which he replied "ok" and you can hear his breathing return to normal.
But you've yet to address or correct yourself there, you still go on with "But his gf said _____ so that's what I believe". And you wann talk about being bias and not being reasonable? |
Dont really get what your point is. He was running and then he stopped running, is that supposed to prove something?
The dispute comes from Zimmerman claims that Treyvon came up to him and said "do you have a problem? You do now," and then punched him in the face, while the girlfriend said she heard someone say "what are you doing here," and then the phone got knocked out of his hand. Two completely different accounts.
Personally I think it sounds like Zimmerman made up a story about how the confrontation happened which he told to police that night, but he didnt realize that Treyvon was on the phone at the time with his girlfriend and didnt know there was anyone who could dispute what he said. Coupled with the fact that it doesnt really make sense that Treyvon would run away then turn around to start a fight with Zimmerman while he was walking back to his car instead of just walking another 100 yards to his house, but makes complete sense that Zimmerman would go confront him to ask him what he was doing; I happen to think that Zimmerman is lying to make it look like he didnt start the confrontation.
But feel free to believe whatever you feel like.
|
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
CoolHandLuke
ID: 1582871
Level: 25
Posts: 2584
Score: 791
|
Posted on Tue May 08, 2012 08:27:11
|
By TedThomas [887131]
But feel free to believe whatever you feel like. |
why not just end with this.....this seems like the perfect statement for everybody here.
|
there's right and there's wrong, you gotta do one or the other If you do the one and your living you do the other you might be walking around but your dead as a beaver hat |
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
TedThomas
ID: 887131
Level: 55
Posts: 21169
Score: 15774
|
Posted on Tue May 08, 2012 08:47:46
|
By CoolHandLuke [1582871]
By TedThomas [887131]
But feel free to believe whatever you feel like. |
why not just end with this.....this seems like the perfect statement for everybody here. |
You are the one that thinks anyone that has a different opinion than you is trying to form a lynch mob and that if anyone questions Zimmerman's story they want him dead...
|
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
CoolHandLuke
ID: 1582871
Level: 25
Posts: 2584
Score: 791
|
Posted on Tue May 08, 2012 09:00:29
|
By TedThomas [887131]
By CoolHandLuke [1582871]
By TedThomas [887131]
But feel free to believe whatever you feel like. |
why not just end with this.....this seems like the perfect statement for everybody here. |
You are the one that thinks anyone that has a different opinion than you is trying to form a lynch mob and that if anyone questions Zimmerman's story they want him dead... |
sorry, i didnt realize you could go far left but i wasnt allowed to go far right. You claim he ran to the "kid" grabbed his shoulder spun his small ass around and screamed at him, the "kid" punched him in the face and Zimmerman being the racist no good white trash that he is pulled his gun and shot him. I said Zimmerman chased the kid, told not too by cops, was going to walk away before getting tackled to the ground and beaten until he finally pulled his gun and shot the man.
You said a GIRLFRIEND on the PHONE (which means she was not there, and didnt see anything what so ever) knows exactly what happened, and how it went down. I said Zimmerman, and the eye witnesses WHERE there and seen it with their own eyes so they know exactly what went down.
You say he should be in jail for life for killing a "kid" who was unarmed and half his size. I say he should have a damn good case for self defense, for trayvon starting the scrap and taking it too far which pushed Zimmerman to pull his gun and use it.
Sorry, didnt realize i could not do what you do but be on the other side. Didnt know it was right for you to be completely on the side of Trayvon, but i could be completely on the side of Zimmerman.
Sorry you dont realize i have a lote of fun playing Devils Advocate (trying to get better) and you are just an easy victim.
But as i said, we should all just leave this thread on your statement that you made.
"But feel free to believe whatever you feel like."
so i will indeed leave it with that, and i will also pay close attention with this case to see how it goes from here and at the end (depending on how far away the end is) will come back and give my opinion on the case again for you to bash and completely dismantle because it most likely wont go hand and hand with your opinion.
|
there's right and there's wrong, you gotta do one or the other If you do the one and your living you do the other you might be walking around but your dead as a beaver hat |
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
TedThomas
ID: 887131
Level: 55
Posts: 21169
Score: 15774
|
Posted on Tue May 08, 2012 09:23:36
|
I did not claim, say, or imply anything close to what you said.
Hope you had fun making shit up though...
This guy explains my position fairly well and saves me from repeating myself.
marinadedave.com/journal/tag/ricardo-ayala
Im on the side of what the evidence points to (that we know of), you are on the side of whatever makes Zimmerman look like an innocent victim...I would like to know what really happened, not just ignore everything that doesnt vindicate Zimmerman.
Like I said, feel free to believe what you want...However I dont remember saying I wasnt going to criticize you for believing it.
Last Edited: Tue May 08, 2012 10:05:53
|
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
_TheCrow_
ID: 686314
Level: 40
Posts: 4724
Score: 2943
|
Posted on Tue May 08, 2012 17:24:59
|
By TedThomas [887131]
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
Also, I'm not (unlike yourself) ignoring all the other facts. You know like how you kept stating that in the 911 call (which you obviously didn't listen to) he exited his truck and chased Trayvon after he had been told not to when you can clearly hear him exit the vehicle and become winded from running, THEN the dispatcher said they didn't need him to follow, with which he replied "ok" and you can hear his breathing return to normal.
But you've yet to address or correct yourself there, you still go on with "But his gf said _____ so that's what I believe". And you wann talk about being bias and not being reasonable? |
Dont really get what your point is. He was running and then he stopped running, is that supposed to prove something?
|
My point here was that while you bash people for just believing whatever they want to believe, not knowing the facts and making shit up to make Zimmerman look innocent, you yourself have clearly overlooked things and made up shit as well. You've repeatedly said that AFTER the dispatcher told Zimmerman he didn't have to pursue that THAT is when he began pursuing and the tapes proved that, when they in fact do not and it actually seams the opposite.
Granted this has f**k all to do with proving any innocence or guilt or give any incite into the end altercation, it shows that you are no more innocent of slinging inaccuracy's than anyone you call a moron for doing the same.
|
Me- "I received a 30 day ban, then 4 days later I noticed it became a 60 day ban. Why?
Staff- "Because I can" DIRECT QUOTE
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
TedThomas
ID: 887131
Level: 55
Posts: 21169
Score: 15774
|
Posted on Tue May 08, 2012 19:22:04
|
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
By TedThomas [887131]
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
Also, I'm not (unlike yourself) ignoring all the other facts. You know like how you kept stating that in the 911 call (which you obviously didn't listen to) he exited his truck and chased Trayvon after he had been told not to when you can clearly hear him exit the vehicle and become winded from running, THEN the dispatcher said they didn't need him to follow, with which he replied "ok" and you can hear his breathing return to normal.
But you've yet to address or correct yourself there, you still go on with "But his gf said _____ so that's what I believe". And you wann talk about being bias and not being reasonable? |
Dont really get what your point is. He was running and then he stopped running, is that supposed to prove something?
|
My point here was that while you bash people for just believing whatever they want to believe, not knowing the facts and making shit up to make Zimmerman look innocent, you yourself have clearly overlooked things and made up shit as well. You've repeatedly said that AFTER the dispatcher told Zimmerman he didn't have to pursue that THAT is when he began pursuing and the tapes proved that, when they in fact do not and it actually seams the opposite.
Granted this has f**k all to do with proving any innocence or guilt or give any incite into the end altercation, it shows that you are no more innocent of slinging inaccuracy's than anyone you call a moron for doing the same. |
No, actually I didnt say that. I said he kept pursuing after he was told not to. Just because he said "ok" doesnt mean he instantly turned around.
He was running, he stopped running and started walking. You do realize that from Zimmerman's car to where Treyvon got shot was only like half a block right.
The difference between my position and your position is that you believe the word of someone you dont know at all and I am going off of what the evidence points to. I wouldnt really call them equal.
If he ran the other way to cut him off, it matches up pretty much perfectly with the time line because he ran for ~30 seconds on the tape. If he had ran 30 seconds and went the way Treyvon did, he would have passed where Treyvon was found, and then when "he was coming back to his car" decided to go down the path at the T intersection for no reason. Never mind the fact that its a long path and there really isnt anywhere for Treyvon to hide so he could ambush Zimmerman like he claims, and that Treyvon's dad's house is at the end of the path so it doesnt really make sense that he would turn around to go start a fight with Zimmerman when he could have just went home.
What it all comes down to is Zimmerman's story doesnt add up and people should be skeptical of his story, but if you want to continue take his word for it for really no reason go right ahead. We will see who was ignoring evidence when the trial comes around. My bet is on ballistics, blood splatter, and autopsy reports not coinciding with Zimmerman's story which is why they decided to file charges against him, but go ahead and stick with taking Zimmerman at his word if it makes you feel better about yourself for whatever reason...
Last Edited: Tue May 08, 2012 20:26:00
|
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
_TheCrow_
ID: 686314
Level: 40
Posts: 4724
Score: 2943
|
Posted on Tue May 08, 2012 23:52:33
|
By TedThomas [887131]
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
By TedThomas [887131]
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
Also, I'm not (unlike yourself) ignoring all the other facts. You know like how you kept stating that in the 911 call (which you obviously didn't listen to) he exited his truck and chased Trayvon after he had been told not to when you can clearly hear him exit the vehicle and become winded from running, THEN the dispatcher said they didn't need him to follow, with which he replied "ok" and you can hear his breathing return to normal.
But you've yet to address or correct yourself there, you still go on with "But his gf said _____ so that's what I believe". And you wann talk about being bias and not being reasonable? |
Dont really get what your point is. He was running and then he stopped running, is that supposed to prove something?
|
My point here was that while you bash people for just believing whatever they want to believe, not knowing the facts and making shit up to make Zimmerman look innocent, you yourself have clearly overlooked things and made up shit as well. You've repeatedly said that AFTER the dispatcher told Zimmerman he didn't have to pursue that THAT is when he began pursuing and the tapes proved that, when they in fact do not and it actually seams the opposite.
Granted this has f**k all to do with proving any innocence or guilt or give any incite into the end altercation, it shows that you are no more innocent of slinging inaccuracy's than anyone you call a moron for doing the same. |
No, actually I didnt say that. I said he kept pursuing after he was told not to. Just because he said "ok" doesnt mean he instantly turned around.
He was running, he stopped running and started walking. You do realize that from Zimmerman's car to where Treyvon got shot was only like half a block right.
The difference between my position and your position is that you believe the word of someone you dont know at all and I am going off of what the evidence points to. I wouldnt really call them equal.
If he ran the other way to cut him off, it matches up pretty much perfectly with the time line because he ran for ~30 seconds on the tape. If he had ran 30 seconds and went the way Treyvon did, he would have passed where Treyvon was found, and then when "he was coming back to his car" decided to go down the path at the T intersection for no reason. Never mind the fact that its a long path and there really isnt anywhere for Treyvon to hide so he could ambush Zimmerman like he claims, and that Treyvon's dad's house is at the end of the path so it doesnt really make sense that he would turn around to go start a fight with Zimmerman when he could have just went home.
What it all comes down to is Zimmerman's story doesnt add up and people should be skeptical of his story, but if you want to continue take his word for it for really no reason go right ahead. We will see who was ignoring evidence when the trial comes around. My bet is on ballistics, blood splatter, and autopsy reports not coinciding with Zimmerman's story which is why they decided to file charges against him, but go ahead and stick with taking Zimmerman at his word if it makes you feel better about yourself for whatever reason... |
By TedThomas [887131]
The fact is, he was in his car. He was told not to follow but he got out of the car to go after him anyways.
|
Looks to me like you're saying he left his vehicle after the dispatcher told him not to, and I'm pretty sure that looks the same to anyone else in here with even a slight grasp of the english language (sorry robocop).
Still find it funny though that the man who loves telling everyone on the internet they have no common sense or that they're flat out morons, and who also thinks Zimmerman is a moron, is basing his opinion of which route Zimmerman took on it not making sense if he took the route that wouldn't fit into your theory of the events... I'm not saying you're wrong, just funny that you're basing it on assuming Zimmerman would do what makes sense when you don't think the guy had any...
I mean apparently many people think Zimmerman had it in his head that he HAD TO catch the guy, so why would it not make sense to take a different path back to his vehicle just in case he happened to see him on another route?
|
Me- "I received a 30 day ban, then 4 days later I noticed it became a 60 day ban. Why?
Staff- "Because I can" DIRECT QUOTE
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
TedThomas
ID: 887131
Level: 55
Posts: 21169
Score: 15774
|
Posted on Wed May 09, 2012 00:03:41
|
So I mis-spoke 3 weeks ago, sue me...Whether he ran before or after has nothing to do with anything anyways.
If he took the other route it doesnt fit his own sequence of events genius. If he went down the other way back to his car then there would have been no opportunity for Treyvon to get behind him.
|
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
_TheCrow_
ID: 686314
Level: 40
Posts: 4724
Score: 2943
|
Posted on Wed May 09, 2012 06:59:20
|
By TedThomas [887131]
So I mis-spoke 3 weeks ago, sue me...Whether he ran before or after has nothing to do with anything anyways.
If he took the other route it doesnt fit his own sequence of events genius. If he went down the other way back to his car then there would have been no opportunity for Treyvon to get behind him.
|
Thats not exactly misspeaking, thats an incorrect opinion you stated as truth befor you knew better, there's a difference. Don't go that route of corrupt senators, governors, presidents, etc. and proclaim you misspoke and it's not what you meant to say... You meant it when you said it because you were misinformed.... you're not perfect shithead, admit it for once.
Something else laughable to point out...
By TedThomas [887131]
The difference between my position and your position is that you believe the word of someone you dont know at all and I am going off of what the evidence points to. I wouldnt really call them equal. |
And the "evidence" you keep pointing to is BELIEVING THE WORD OF SOMEONE YOU DON'T KNOW AT ALL.....
You continuously based your opinion off of the girl Trayvon was on the phone with... so PLEASE tell me your connection to her... PLEASE. If I can't believe a stranger then why is it ok for you???? And we can look at maps all day long, but NOBODY knows the exact routes taken by either men so speculation is just speculation, yet you state it as fact. Hypocrite much?
Lets compare notes here shall we....
What are ALL the REAL FACTS that we know?
1. We know where Zimmermans truck was parked.
2. We know where Martins body was found dead.
3. We have 2 911 calls recorded that prove that
A) Zimmerman attempted to pursue but may or may not have stopped pursuing.
B) Someone screamed for help.
C) Zimmerman fired a shot that killed Martin. (corroborated by his own statement).
4. We know that Zimmerman sustained moderate injuries due to an altercation NOBODY knows who started. (Yes I am not taking into account the GF's statement just as I am not taking into account witness statements because neither can be proven as fact by video or audio evidence)
5. There are conflicting reports of what happened. Zimmerman and POSSIBLY witnesses (who were there) vs. the deceased man's girlfriend who was on the phone with him.
THE END
No one besides Zimmerman knows more than that... those ARE the ONLY facts that we as the public know at this time. Anything else stated is conjecture and holds no merit.
THAT is what my opinion is based off of, not the delusional attempt to defend Zimmerman that you accuse people who disagree with you of having... just facts stated at this time.
So PLEASE, STFU and cast aside your little quips and pet names for people you find inferior of intellect until we all find out more than left wing speculation that you agree with.
|
Me- "I received a 30 day ban, then 4 days later I noticed it became a 60 day ban. Why?
Staff- "Because I can" DIRECT QUOTE
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
TedThomas
ID: 887131
Level: 55
Posts: 21169
Score: 15774
|
Posted on Wed May 09, 2012 09:25:05
|
Lol, I got one fact wrong that doesnt even matter 3 weeks ago before I had read 50 or so articles than what I have now and that discounts everything I say.
You're a funny guy, unintentionally.
No, actually what we do know is...
1. Treyvon stopped by the mailboxes to get out of the rain
2. Zimmerman reported someone looking suspicious and possibly on drugs
3. Treyvon walked past the truck, and started walking faster and/or running
4. Zimmerman gets out of his truck and starts running after him
5. Runs for about 30 seconds
6. He gets off the phone with the dispatcher
7. About a minute and half later Treyvon's girlfriends phone gets disconnected
8. Less than a minute later screams and gunshots are recorded on a 911 call
We know he cut his head at some point, which is pretty common in fights because the head is full of blood vessels and bleeds pretty easily. We also know they weren't "life threatening" enough that he needed to get stitches or any more than a clean up by the EMT.
I know you have a hard time understanding things like forensics and science, but you do realize it is possible to make logical deductions based on facts and circumstance right. You really have to be blind to not see inconsistencies in his story.
Based on the "facts" you gave, how the hell can you say you have an opinion about anything? You basically admitted you dont know anything and you have chosen to believe Zimmerman's story for no reason.
|
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
CoolHandLuke
ID: 1582871
Level: 25
Posts: 2584
Score: 791
|
Posted on Wed May 09, 2012 10:29:59
|
was stupid comment
Last Edited: Wed May 09, 2012 10:41:46
|
there's right and there's wrong, you gotta do one or the other If you do the one and your living you do the other you might be walking around but your dead as a beaver hat |
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
TedThomas
ID: 887131
Level: 55
Posts: 21169
Score: 15774
|
Posted on Wed May 09, 2012 10:42:43
|
By CoolHandLuke [1582871]
| By TedThomas [887131]We also know they weren't "life threatening" enough that he needed to get stitches or any more than a clean up by the EMT. |
i know i said i wasnt going to respond here again for a while. But you think i can get a reference for this statement. Since all i have seen are pics, and cuts on the head almost always look bad. |
He was treated at the scene and took to the police station, look it up yourself.
|
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
TedThomas
ID: 887131
Level: 55
Posts: 21169
Score: 15774
|
Posted on Wed May 09, 2012 11:08:58
|
What people seem to be missing is that there is only 1 story, Zimmerman's. The only other person who knows what happened for sure is dead.
So the options boil down to
A. Believe what Zimmerman says happened, and assume anyone that says anything to the contrary is lying
B. Be skeptical of Zimmerman's story and deduce what could have happened if Zimmerman isnt telling the truth
C. Assume everyone is lying and make up your own story
By choosing A, you are electing to take the word of a complete stranger in the face of contradicting statements. Why would you believe him and then automatically assume the girlfriend is a liar? But why? Do you know him? Is it because he seems like someone trustworthy? Does he seem like someone who wouldnt keep following someone after he was told not to you? Do you really think Treyvon was a thug who basically deserved to get shot?
Or is it that you are just pissed off that this has become a race issue so you want to be on whatever side Jesse Jackson isnt..?
Last Edited: Wed May 09, 2012 11:09:37
|
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
bosox
ID: 278767
Level: 44
Posts: 6771
Score: 2506
|
Posted on Wed May 09, 2012 18:01:27
|
By TedThomas [887131]
Why would you believe him and then automatically assume the girlfriend is a liar? But why? Do you know him? Is it because he seems like someone trustworthy? Does he seem like someone who wouldnt keep following someone after he was told not to you? Do you really think Treyvon was a thug who basically deserved to get shot? |
Well, just because I like playing devil's advocate, as I'm more on your side than anyone else's, but you have a weird way of defending your statements...
1) Why would you believe his girlfriend, and not Zimmerman? Do you know her? Does she seem like she is a completely unbiased witness?
And yes, race DOES cloud the issue here, whether you want to deny that or not.
But now you have entered your own opinions. Because for one, you can't make personal a judgement against Zimmerman based on what we know form a 30 second clip of a 9/11 call about whether or not he would decide to stop following him or not. You blindly asking "does he seem like he would stop?" is no better than crow or luke asking "does it seem like Martin would shoot if he had the chance?"
Also, since we don't for sure know how the scuffle between the two happened, we can look to other precedent and studies, and those studies show that in a fight, just as with knives, people carrying guns have their chances of getting shot by their own gun increase. So perhaps Martin saw Zimmerman had a gun, even though he was not pointing it at him, and perhaps Martin decided to initiate the fight that very quickly became a life and death struggle. For you to say the fight is not drastic means you are heavily being biased towards one side, and not looking at all options. Fact is, someone DID indeed die during the scuffle, so it was a life threatening fight, and we don't know if Martin initiated it after seeing the gun, and we don't know if Zimmerman pointed the gun at martin for no reason, which caused the fight.
Like I said, I believe Zimmerman is guilty, and really had no reason to try to approach Martin. That being said, running after someone isn't against the law, and from what I can gather, it seems Martin was the one who took off running first (which also isn't against the law). The case is much more complicated than anyone on this thread is making it out to be, and it's being further complicated by the fact Zimmerman is "white" or "mostly white" and Martin is "black."
|
I buy bulk Morphine |
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
robocop
ID: 24729
Level: 55
Posts: 6166
Score: 2828
|
Posted on Wed May 09, 2012 18:18:51
|
By bosox [278767]
By TedThomas [887131]
Why would you believe him and then automatically assume the girlfriend is a liar? But why? Do you know him? Is it because he seems like someone trustworthy? Does he seem like someone who wouldnt keep following someone after he was told not to you? Do you really think Treyvon was a thug who basically deserved to get shot? |
Well, just because I like playing devil's advocate, as I'm more on your side than anyone else's, but you have a weird way of defending your statements...
1) Why would you believe his girlfriend, and not Zimmerman? Do you know her? Does she seem like she is a completely unbiased witness?
And yes, race DOES cloud the issue here, whether you want to deny that or not.
But now you have entered your own opinions. Because for one, you can't make personal a judgement against Zimmerman based on what we know form a 30 second clip of a 9/11 call about whether or not he would decide to stop following him or not. You blindly asking "does he seem like he would stop?" is no better than crow or luke asking "does it seem like Martin would shoot if he had the chance?"
Also, since we don't for sure know how the scuffle between the two happened, we can look to other precedent and studies, and those studies show that in a fight, just as with knives, people carrying guns have their chances of getting shot by their own gun increase. So perhaps Martin saw Zimmerman had a gun, even though he was not pointing it at him, and perhaps Martin decided to initiate the fight that very quickly became a life and death struggle. For you to say the fight is not drastic means you are heavily being biased towards one side, and not looking at all options. Fact is, someone DID indeed die during the scuffle, so it was a life threatening fight, and we don't know if Martin initiated it after seeing the gun, and we don't know if Zimmerman pointed the gun at martin for no reason, which caused the fight.
Like I said, I believe Zimmerman is guilty, and really had no reason to try to approach Martin. That being said, running after someone isn't against the law, and from what I can gather, it seems Martin was the one who took off running first (which also isn't against the law). The case is much more complicated than anyone on this thread is making it out to be, and it's being further complicated by the fact Zimmerman is "white" or "mostly white" and Martin is "black." |
It's not about advocating, he didn't do the job.
He got gun, being zealous and did shit. The fact he went free after that is what angry most of the people living there, i mean u kill somebody then go free without charges because ur the security guy owning a gun and being morally over the other.
I mean it's really hard to point somewhere in this case.
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
TedThomas
ID: 887131
Level: 55
Posts: 21169
Score: 15774
|
Posted on Wed May 09, 2012 19:20:46
|
By bosox [278767]
By TedThomas [887131]
Why would you believe him and then automatically assume the girlfriend is a liar? But why? Do you know him? Is it because he seems like someone trustworthy? Does he seem like someone who wouldnt keep following someone after he was told not to you? Do you really think Treyvon was a thug who basically deserved to get shot? |
Well, just because I like playing devil's advocate, as I'm more on your side than anyone else's, but you have a weird way of defending your statements...
1) Why would you believe his girlfriend, and not Zimmerman? Do you know her? Does she seem like she is a completely unbiased witness?
And yes, race DOES cloud the issue here, whether you want to deny that or not.
But now you have entered your own opinions. Because for one, you can't make personal a judgement against Zimmerman based on what we know form a 30 second clip of a 9/11 call about whether or not he would decide to stop following him or not. You blindly asking "does he seem like he would stop?" is no better than crow or luke asking "does it seem like Martin would shoot if he had the chance?"
Also, since we don't for sure know how the scuffle between the two happened, we can look to other precedent and studies, and those studies show that in a fight, just as with knives, people carrying guns have their chances of getting shot by their own gun increase. So perhaps Martin saw Zimmerman had a gun, even though he was not pointing it at him, and perhaps Martin decided to initiate the fight that very quickly became a life and death struggle. For you to say the fight is not drastic means you are heavily being biased towards one side, and not looking at all options. Fact is, someone DID indeed die during the scuffle, so it was a life threatening fight, and we don't know if Martin initiated it after seeing the gun, and we don't know if Zimmerman pointed the gun at martin for no reason, which caused the fight.
Like I said, I believe Zimmerman is guilty, and really had no reason to try to approach Martin. That being said, running after someone isn't against the law, and from what I can gather, it seems Martin was the one who took off running first (which also isn't against the law). The case is much more complicated than anyone on this thread is making it out to be, and it's being further complicated by the fact Zimmerman is "white" or "mostly white" and Martin is "black." |
I didnt make a personal judgement on Zimmerman, I looked at the evidence and have come to the conclusion that it doesnt match what Zimmerman has said happened. Take out everything the girlfriend said and it still doesnt really match up.
There is more than enough reason to be skeptical of his story.
How the fight when down will come out in the forensics. Im not going to guess what happened, but Im going to put my money on it not exonerating Zimmerman which is why they decided to charge him.
Last Edited: Thu May 10, 2012 00:56:02
|
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
_TheCrow_
ID: 686314
Level: 40
Posts: 4724
Score: 2943
|
Posted on Thu May 10, 2012 09:11:30
|
By TedThomas [887131]
Lol, I got one fact wrong that doesnt even matter 3 weeks ago before I had read 50 or so articles than what I have now and that discounts everything I say.
You're a funny guy, unintentionally.
No, actually what we do know is...
1. Treyvon stopped by the mailboxes to get out of the rain
2. Zimmerman reported someone looking suspicious and possibly on drugs
3. Treyvon walked past the truck, and started walking faster and/or running
4. Zimmerman gets out of his truck and starts running after him
5. Runs for about 30 seconds
6. He gets off the phone with the dispatcher
7. About a minute and half later Treyvon's girlfriends phone gets disconnected
8. Less than a minute later screams and gunshots are recorded on a 911 call
We know he cut his head at some point, which is pretty common in fights because the head is full of blood vessels and bleeds pretty easily. We also know they weren't "life threatening" enough that he needed to get stitches or any more than a clean up by the EMT.
I know you have a hard time understanding things like forensics and science, but you do realize it is possible to make logical deductions based on facts and circumstance right. You really have to be blind to not see inconsistencies in his story.
Based on the "facts" you gave, how the hell can you say you have an opinion about anything? You basically admitted you dont know anything and you have chosen to believe Zimmerman's story for no reason. |
..... Are you f**king kidding me?? SERIOUSLY, are you f**king kidding me?
You begin this post by admitting you got something wrong, but act like it's not a big deal (had someone else "mispoke" you'd have verbally shit down their throat) yet you verbally shit on people EVERY time they don't speak in accordance to what your opinion is.... Guess what you pretentious piece of shit, you're f**king human and you're wrong some times just like every else.....
Whats very laughable is that I stated facts that can be proven without bias, yet the first "fact" you stated was the most irrelevant statement backed by no evidence that has been stated in this thread period.... but of course you'll have an excuse....
" 1. Treyvon stopped by the mailboxes to get out of the rain"...Facts are what we were arguing and opinion is what that is....
And you proclaim that FACT.... ?!?!?
Odd how you know where and why Trayvon was while being on the opposite coast.... Lemme guess, did you misspeak again? Or are you in fact a missing witness and thats why you proclaim what you say as truth? PLEASE explain to me how your opinion became fact...
|
Me- "I received a 30 day ban, then 4 days later I noticed it became a 60 day ban. Why?
Staff- "Because I can" DIRECT QUOTE
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
TedThomas
ID: 887131
Level: 55
Posts: 21169
Score: 15774
|
Posted on Thu May 10, 2012 11:38:34
|
Aww, poor wittle guy...You need your binky?
You are truly a sad and pathetic little man...I would feel sorry for you but I really dont care that much...
I didnt really care before but now I hope Zimmerman is guilty so I can laugh in your face...
Last Edited: Thu May 10, 2012 11:43:49
|
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
-El-
ID: 463504
Level: 72
Posts: 1954
Score: 1041
|
Posted on Thu May 10, 2012 16:50:26
|
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
You begin this post by admitting you got something wrong |
That alone caught my attention. It honestly shows the character of a man that will admit he's wrong or gotten something wrong, instead of someone (not you per se') that won't admit when they f**k up.
And there's plenty of people on here that do that shit.
|
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
CoolHandLuke
ID: 1582871
Level: 25
Posts: 2584
Score: 791
|
Posted on Wed May 16, 2012 11:55:21
|
www.documentcloud.org/documents/330631-87688384-zimmerman-family-member-letter-to-naacp.html
an interesting letter for those of you who give a damn.
|
there's right and there's wrong, you gotta do one or the other If you do the one and your living you do the other you might be walking around but your dead as a beaver hat |
| Super secret reinforced spam barrier 2.0 |
joeykickdoors
ID: 1362446
Level: 31
Posts: 3038
Score: 2579
|
Posted on Thu May 17, 2012 10:15:16
|
I give a damn and I read it.
I couldn't copy and paste anything from to quote it, but it sure is funny how the NAACP picks and chooses their fights.. however, this is nothing new.
|
|
|
|
![_TheCrow_ [686314]](http://awardimages.torn.com/686314-57011-large.png "_TheCrow_ [686314]")
![TedThomas [887131]](http://awardimages.torn.com/887131-65195-large.png "TedThomas [887131]")
![-El- [463504]](http://awardimages.torn.com/463504-30159-large.png "-El- [463504]")
![bosox [278767]](http://awardimages.torn.com/278767-86027-large.png "bosox [278767]")
![CoolHandLuke [1582871]](http://awardimages.torn.com/1582871-7245-large.png "CoolHandLuke [1582871]")
![robocop [24729]](http://awardimages.torn.com/24729-92404-large.png "robocop [24729]")
![joeykickdoors [1362446]](http://awardimages.torn.com/1362446-98810-large.png "joeykickdoors [1362446]")
Follow @TornRPG