all the comments so far would have been easy to predict but I find this convo interesting anyway as it is something im undecided about. going to try to quickly give my views both for and against the idea and see what happens.
lets start with clarifying some statements; alcohol and tobacco ARE more dangerous than cannabis, however there are a few points to consider on that. firstly, this only applies to cannabis leaves, not resin, and only when eaten or smoked through a device such as a vaporiser, which releases the thc without igniting the cannabis. otherwise, cannabis is much more carcinogenic than tobacco.
comments about mental health need some clarification too. the causes of mental health disorders are not understood by medical professionals, at the moment all they can assume is that it is both a mixture of genetic predisposition and psychological triggers. As they do not know for sure the cause they cannot say with certainty that cannabis use causes mental illness, although studies can prove users have a higher chance of having it. that proves that it AT-LEAST triggers mental illness, that is not to say it conclusively does not cause it, more research would be required for that so potentially still very risky.
many arguments make the point of it being down to personal choice, and on the surface that seems fair enough. however, drug use (like most actions) DOES impact on society in many other ways. plus, even if it didn't, is it not everyone's duty to do what is best for themselves, the group AND the country?? so just because a person is only harming themselves is no reason not to do everything you can to prevent it. suicide would be an example of that: it is their life, but would you still freely let your friend, family member, or even stranger harm themselves without any attempt to help them??
comments on finances for or against it don't really add up, neither do alcohol tax vs. NHS bills etc. if this is to be your case then the logical conclusion for this is true-cost pricing, where the environmental, societal etc. effects are calculated to give the true cost of an item, only those who can afford to pay for the damage they cause could therefore afford it. this gives a much stronger argument for people having the right to do what they see fit.
as for increasing sentences and the effects that would have; all studies research etc show that successfully dealing with drug issues requires treatment to be increased and penalties decreased, not vice-versa. what benefit is it to a user of drugs if their situation is worsened as a result instead of helped? they are then even more likely to use than the previously were. the obvious truth of this can be seen by viewing the stats on the uk's methadone treatment programme. you are allocated a certain amount, depending on your habit you may be fine. if not you are inevitably going to supplement it, instead of viewing it as a weaning process it is viewed as showing no desire to follow the programme, your allowance is then dropped and the cycle repeats until you are back on the drugs full time.
either way it would seem that treatment needs to be increased, court appointed treatment needs to be followed up and maintained more extensively and awareness and personal perception needs to be changed by a concerted effort through the government.
other than that it is obv that not using is better than using, for the individual and society as a whole. the question therefore only really comes down to one thing, is it more important to grant personal freedom of choice to individuals or to protect the best interests of society as a whole? the individual or the nation? freedom or protection?
As far as using to get high, people will use whether its legal or not. Prohibition on alcohol did not work and it is not working for cannabis. Look at other positive uses for hemp/cannabis.
HISTORY FACTS
*Hemp has been grown for at least the last 12,000 years for fiber (textiles and paper) and food. It has been effectively prohibited in the United States since the 1950s.
*George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both grew hemp. Ben Franklin owned a mill that made hemp paper. Jefferson drafted the Declaration of Independence on hemp paper.
*When US sources of "Manila hemp" (not true hemp) was cut off by the Japanese in WWII, the US Army and US Department of Agriculture promoted the "Hemp for Victory" campaign to grow hemp in the US.
*Because of its importance for sails (the word "canvass" is rooted in "cannabis") and rope for ships, hemp was a required crop in the American colonies.
INDUSTRY FACTS
*Henry Ford experimented with hemp to build car bodies. He wanted to build and fuel cars from farm products.
*BMW is experimenting with hemp materials in automobiles as part of an effort to make cars more recyclable.
*Much of the bird seed sold in the US has hemp seed (it's sterilized before importation), the hulls of which contain about 25% protein.
*Hemp oil once greased machines. Most paints, resins, shellacs, and varnishes used to be made out of linseed (from flax) and hemp oils.
*Rudolph Diesel designed his engine to run on hemp oil.
*Kimberly Clark (on the Fortune 500) has a mill in France which produces hemp paper preferred for bibles because it lasts a very long time and doesn't yellow.
*Construction products such as medium density fiber board, oriented strand board, and even beams, studs and posts could be made out of hemp. Because of hemp's long fibers, the products will be stronger and/or lighter than those made from wood.
*The products that can be made from hemp number over 25,000.
SCIENTIFIC FACTS
*Industrial hemp and marijuana are both classified by taxonomists as Cannabis sativa, a species with hundreds of varieties. C. sativa is a member of the mulberry family. Industrial hemp is bred to maximize fiber, seed and/or oil, while marijuana varieties seek to maximize THC (delta 9 tetrahydrocannabinol, the primary psychoactive ingredient in marijuana).
*While industrial hemp and marijuana may look somewhat alike to an untrained eye, an easily trained eye can easily distinguish the difference.
*Industrial hemp has a THC content of between 0.05 and 1%. Marijuana has a THC content of 3% to 20%. To receive a standard psychoactive dose would require a person to power-smoke 10-12 hemp cigarettes over an extremely short period of time. The large volume and high temperature of vapor, gas and smoke would be almost impossible for a person to withstand.
*If hemp does pollinate any nearby marijuana, genetically, the result will always be lower-THC marijuana, not higher-THC hemp. If hemp is grown outdoors, marijuana will not be grown close by to avoid producing lower-grade marijuana.
*Hemp fibers are longer, stronger, more absorbent and more mildew-resistant than cotton.
*Fabrics made of at least one-half hemp block the sun's UV rays more effectively than other fabrics.
*Many of the varieties of hemp that were grown in North America have been lost. Seed banks weren't maintained. New genetic breeding will be necessary using both foreign and domestic "ditchweed," strains of hemp that went feral after cultivation ended. Various state national guard units often spend their weekends trying to eradicate this hemp, in the mistaken belief they are helping stop drug use.
*A 1938 Popular Mechanics described hemp as a "New Billion Dollar Crop." That's back when a billion was real money.
*Hemp can be made in to a variety of fabrics, including linen quality.
LEGAL FACTS
*The US Drug Enforcement Agency classifies all C. sativa varieties as "marijuana." While it is theoretically possible to get permission from the government to grow hemp, DEA would require that the field be secured by fence, razor wire, dogs, guards, and lights, making it cost-prohibitive.
*The US State Department must certify each year that a foreign nation is cooperating in the war on drugs. The European union subsidizes its farmers to grow industrial hemp. Those nations are not on this list, because the State Department can tell the difference between hemp and marijuana.
*Hemp was grown commercially (with increasing governmental interference) in the United States until the 1950s. It was doomed by the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937, which placed an extremely high tax on marijuana and made it effectively impossible to grow industrial hemp. While Congress expressly expected the continued production of industrial hemp, the Federal Bureau of Narcotics lumped industrial hemp with marijuana, as it's successor the US Drug Enforcement Administration, does to this day.
*Over 30 industrialized democracies do distinguish hemp from marijuana. International treaties regarding marijuana make an exception for industrial hemp.
*Canada now again allows the growing of hemp.
ECOLOGY FACTS
* Hemp growers can not hide marijuana plants in their fields. Marijuana is grown widely spaced to maximize leaves. Hemp is grown in tightly-spaced rows to maximize stalk and is usually harvested before it goes to seed.
*Hemp can be made into fine quality paper. The long fibers in hemp allow such paper to be recycled several times more than wood-based paper.
*Because of its low lignin content, hemp can be pulped using less chemicals than with wood. Its natural brightness can obviate the need to use chlorine bleach, which means no extremely toxic dioxin being dumped into streams. A kinder and gentler chemistry using hydrogen peroxide rather than chlorine dixoide is possible with hemp fibers.
*Hemp grows well in a variety of climates and soil types. It is naturally resistant to most pests, precluding the need for pesticides. It grows tightly spaced, out-competing any weeds, so herbicides are not necessary. It also leaves a weed-free field for a following crop.
*Hemp can displace cotton which is usually grown with massive amounts of chemicals harmful to people and the environment. 50% of all the world's pesticides are sprayed on cotton.
*Hemp can displace wood fiber and save forests for watershed, wildlife habitat, recreation and oxygen production, carbon sequestration (reduces global warming), and other values.
*Hemp can yield 3-8 dry tons of fiber per acre. This is four times what an average forest can yield.
HEALTH FACTS
*If one tried to ingest enough industrial hemp to get 'a buzz', it would be the equivalent of taking 2-3 doses of a high-fiber laxative.
*At a volume level of 81%, hemp oil is the richest known source of polyunsaturated essential fatty acids (the "good" fats). It's quite high in some essential amino acids, including gamma linoleic acid (GLA), a very rare nutrient also found in mother's milk.
*While the original "gruel" was made of hemp seed meal, hemp oil and seed can be made into tasty and nutritional products.
By RowdyRedneck [995650]
Pshhhh silly child, Legalize METH!
How important to you is tooth retention?
Cannabis being legalized would probably save the US economy, or at least mellow folks out about things going to hell.
Canada would be the next Arabian Peninsula.
lol, so its bad for you because its illegal? (na i hear its bad)
In school they told us you could DIE from a puff of weed, i only remembered this cos a girl was debating this with me, the teacher overheard, laughed and said no its not true. LOOOOOOOL
By RowdyRedneck [995650]
Pshhhh silly child, Legalize METH!
How important to you is tooth retention?
Cannabis being legalized would probably save the US economy, or at least mellow folks out about things going to hell.
Canada would be the next Arabian Peninsula.
lol, so its bad for you because its illegal? (na i hear its bad)
In school they told us you could DIE from a puff of weed, i only remembered this cos a girl was debating this with me, the teacher overheard, laughed and said no its not true. LOOOOOOOL
WTF!
Lol teachers always lie When we learned about sex in 7th grade they told us if we had sex with 5 different people we would get AIDS Sometimes I think they just make up this stuff
Greatest fourm post so far
By TedThomas [887131]
By Atlbraves341 [1469632]
Rainbox Six Vegas 2 would be so easy if i got used to the controls better.
So you would be good if you didnt suck at playing at it? Yeah thats how it usually works genius...
By Attitude-Queen [871585]
no, you wanna pay tax on it.
illegel's better, no tax more shit.
:)
Just because it's legal doesn't mean it has to be taxed (other than VAT).
If it is legal, you can grow your own. The standard will be so much better, and you'll have a much broader selection.
And if you really want, you can still buy it untaxed from anyone illegally.
I say its up to the state to decide if its legal or not. just like the Constitution states it should be. END THE FED!!! Billions upon billions of wasted money on this "drug" war and it has gotten us absolutely nowhere. Ron Paul for president..
Making weed illegal has not worked, very similarly to how prohibition didn't work. I am for legalization, though I am strictly opposed to it individually.
They just need to get it over with a make it legal in Some states it is but only on a state level The Feds still can mess with ya though. Here in Washington state you are allowed up to 15 plants and 24oz of smokable bud if you have a green card, in California the limits are even higher and rules less strict.
I would say Cali and Washington are the leaders of the movement, Both are currently working on getting it on to the voting ballot but I know here in Washington we still have a few holdups... hope they get it done quick, most the systems are just abused now anyways.
My question is simply this to all those who oppose making it legal with or without restrictions .. why was it made illegal to begin with? As far as the US goes criminalization is rooted in racism and classism believe it or not and if someone was to thoroughly research you would find that while smoking weed much like smoking anything has major health risk ingesting marijuauna has little to no effect.
And while I'm thinking about it past anti weed commercials help to show the need to legalize it. Now while I do admit that after smoking weed I have experienced heightened awareness (which felt more like paranoia) slight increase in hunger and some off the wall brain farts the only reason I would say it shouldn't be legal is the fact that it will be highly accessible to the youth
By kainey- [306423]
If cannabis gets legalised you should only be allowed to buy enough for personal use, and nothing more as people get addicted to smoking it
Yes but what is the "enough personal use" 25g, 125 ?
1 kilo, already a problem, legalise or not. It's like how many bottle of whisky u can have in your bar without getting sent to jail or hospital.
It's also an economical matter, they are envisaging to legalise cocaine in some south america countries, they'll receive some tourists.
By kainey- [306423]
If cannabis gets legalised you should only be allowed to buy enough for personal use, and nothing more as people get addicted to smoking it
Yes but what is the "enough personal use" 25g, 125 ?
1 kilo, already a problem, legalise or not. It's like how many bottle of whisky u can have in your bar without getting sent to jail or hospital.
It's also an economical matter, they are envisaging to legalise cocaine in some south america countries, they'll receive some tourists.
dude 3 grams out of a cone piece made of foil and a piece of garden hose (thats a shitty set up as you are likely to lose some through a mauable cone) lasted me and a mate like 12 hours...
People get addicted to smoking it like they do drinking alcohol, its not physically addictive, but if you have a fair amount every day for a month or so... then you MAY find you crave it, just like alcoholics are to alcohol. Hell i know people who do.
By kainey- [306423]
If cannabis gets legalised you should only be allowed to buy enough for personal use, and nothing more as people get addicted to smoking it
You never get addicted to it, you do get used to being high though.
Buy enough for personal use means as much as you can smoke. The only reason this system is ever used is to discourage selling, but if it's legal it's obviously going to be sold (Although anyone who actually smokes would probably grow themselves as its pretty simple and a lot cheaper). Not to mention the fact that if someone else wants to smoke a ton of weed it has nothing to do with you. So really I think that your condition would be completely pointless/is kind of retarded.
we should legalize it. its not addictive, it has the ability to cure cancer, it helps people such as myself focus (i did a gram of hash and was able to play skyrim for 3 hours straight until my compy crashed), and it calms people down.
By Vitharr [1430880]
we should legalize it. its not addictive, it has the ability to cure cancer, it helps people such as myself focus (i did a gram of hash and was able to play skyrim for 3 hours straight until my compy crashed), and it calms people down.
Well shit, if it can help you play skyrim for a WHOLE THREE HOURS, and all that after CURING cancer? Shit I got 5 on it.
The reality of legalization is that it would cost a huge number of jobs that cannot be afforded right now. The government employs about 20% of all workers in the US.
Legalization would mean there would be a huge loss of jobs in a bunch of sectors: police, prison guards, pharmaceutical companies, and the DEA, among probably tons of other agencies/committees/etc would suddenly find themselves massively overstaffed and over budget since they no longer had to roll out SWAT teams and helicopters to bust guys growing plants in their house.
You are also talking about all the production and support that goes into keeping those agencies equipped and maintained. That would be a huge secondary effect of legalization and most likely why it will be put off indefinitely, especially considering the Bureau of Labor is already fudging the numbers on the US unemployment rate. No way will we see a massive job cut like that.
By ch3m1st [1563587]
The reality of legalization is that it would cost a huge number of jobs that cannot be afforded right now. The government employs about 20% of all workers in the US.
Legalization would mean there would be a huge loss of jobs in a bunch of sectors: police, prison guards, pharmaceutical companies, and the DEA, among probably tons of other agencies/committees/etc would suddenly find themselves massively overstaffed and over budget since they no longer had to roll out SWAT teams and helicopters to bust guys growing plants in their house.
You are also talking about all the production and support that goes into keeping those agencies equipped and maintained. That would be a huge secondary effect of legalization and most likely why it will be put off indefinitely, especially considering the Bureau of Labor is already fudging the numbers on the US unemployment rate. No way will we see a massive job cut like that.
It would just get rid of resources being wasted on stupid crap like busting people for having fun. It would open up another sector in the farming industry and attract tourism. anyone who has a problem with this drug, will be able to come out and ask for help without being branded a criminal, or to have to suffer people thinking less of them. It would be socially acceptable, like when nicotine addicts beg for smokes on the street, or become aggressive when they cant get their fix... without the begging or aggression part.
There wont really be a loss of jobs, their would be plenty of other drugs for them to complain about. Though i think all drugs should be decriminalised and many discouraged, as prohibition hasent worked for the last 80 years, if anything its made them more harmful, and branding the occaisional user a criminal, potentially destroying thir lives alot of the time, worse then any drug could.
Even if there was a loss of jobs, i dont care, if it needs laws like that for the job to exist, it probably shouldn't.
By Vitharr [1430880]
we should legalize it. its not addictive, it has the ability to cure cancer, it helps people such as myself focus (i did a gram of hash and was able to play skyrim for 3 hours straight until my compy crashed), and it calms people down.
It dosent have the ability to cure cancer, people who go through cemo may use it to make them feel better and help them eat.
By ch3m1st [1563587]
The reality of legalization is that it would cost a huge number of jobs that cannot be afforded right now. The government employs about 20% of all workers in the US.
Legalization would mean there would be a huge loss of jobs in a bunch of sectors: police, prison guards, pharmaceutical companies, and the DEA, among probably tons of other agencies/committees/etc would suddenly find themselves massively overstaffed and over budget since they no longer had to roll out SWAT teams and helicopters to bust guys growing plants in their house.
You are also talking about all the production and support that goes into keeping those agencies equipped and maintained. That would be a huge secondary effect of legalization and most likely why it will be put off indefinitely, especially considering the Bureau of Labor is already fudging the numbers on the US unemployment rate. No way will we see a massive job cut like that.
It would just get rid of resources being wasted on stupid crap like busting people for having fun. It would open up another sector in the farming industry and attract tourism. anyone who has a problem with this drug, will be able to come out and ask for help without being branded a criminal, or to have to suffer people thinking less of them. It would be socially acceptable, like when nicotine addicts beg for smokes on the street, or become aggressive when they cant get their fix... without the begging or aggression part.
There wont really be a loss of jobs, their would be plenty of other drugs for them to complain about. Though i think all drugs should be decriminalised and many discouraged, as prohibition hasent worked for the last 80 years, if anything its made them more harmful, and branding the occaisional user a criminal, potentially destroying thir lives alot of the time, worse then any drug could.
Even if there was a loss of jobs, i dont care, if it needs laws like that for the job to exist, it probably shouldn't.
You misunderstand. I completely support legalization, I'm just saying that there are a huge number of companies that make a huge amount of money on the drug war, and they consistently lobby to keep drugs illegal. It's very unlikely we'll see legalization with the current structure of our corporate/political influence system. It doesn't matter that a huge hemp industry would immediately burgeon and provide us a completely renewable non-tree source of paper (this would also put loggers etc out of business) among all kinds of other benefits (hello, anti-anxiety drug you can grow at home for free! Guess we won't need those 50 million prozac scrips every month after all), it would cost corrections, pharmaceuticals, and other associated businesses way too much money.
By Vitharr [1430880]
we should legalize it. its not addictive, it has the ability to cure cancer, it helps people such as myself focus (i did a gram of hash and was able to play skyrim for 3 hours straight until my compy crashed), and it calms people down.
It dosent have the ability to cure cancer, people who go through cemo may use it to make them feel better and help them eat.
Actually the cannabinoids have also been shown to be anti cancerus. I.e. when you smoke tobacco with weed, it greatly lowers the risk of getting cancer than if you had just smoked the same amount of tobacco. And there's now a fair amount of research going into using cannabinoids to help prevent and cure the disease, but we'll see.
Either way none of this matters. It's harmless, and even if it wasn't its your right to do what you want to yourself, so it should be legal regardless.
By TedThomas [887131]
Smoking anything is not "harmless", inhaling burnt plant material into your lungs isnt going to be good for you no matter how you look at it.
Smoking a vaporiser is harmless.
Eating food cooked with weed is harmless.
Drinking weed tea is harmless.
By TedThomas [887131]
Smoking anything is not "harmless", inhaling burnt plant material into your lungs isnt going to be good for you no matter how you look at it.
Smoking a vaporiser is harmless.
Eating food cooked with weed is harmless.
Drinking weed tea is harmless.
Right, and you arent smoking plant material. You said smoking spliffs is harmless, which is what I disputed.
By TedThomas [887131]
Smoking anything is not "harmless", inhaling burnt plant material into your lungs isnt going to be good for you no matter how you look at it.
Smoking a vaporiser is harmless.
Eating food cooked with weed is harmless.
Drinking weed tea is harmless.
Right, and you arent smoking plant material. You said smoking spliffs is harmless, which is what I disputed.
No, I said "its harmless". It being weed. Can't troll here buddy.
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When we learned about sex in 7th grade they told us if we had sex with 5 different people we would get AIDS
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hope they get it done quick, most the systems are just abused now anyways.
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