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bosox
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Posted on Tue Mar 12, 2013 16:40:11
Ok, then it's just the teams poor management of cap space over the past few years that was still also affected by Flaccos increased cap hit. Not sure why it matters to you how much Flacco contributes to lower cap room though.

Though the fact Flacco is going to have sharply increasing cap hits over the next few seasons plays into tht as well. It's clear Baltimore doesn't think they would be able to resign him in the future, and much of that has to do with Flacco and their other top end players. It's not unique to Baltimore but I'm not sure why you want to deny its happening

Last Edited: Tue Mar 12, 2013 16:43:02
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Posted on Tue Mar 12, 2013 19:45:03
15 more minutes until the free agency period officially starts, I'm pumped to see what moves are made!

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KickRocks

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Posted on Tue Mar 12, 2013 21:24:13
By bosox [278767]
Ok, then it's just the teams poor management of cap space over the past few years that was still also affected by Flaccos increased cap hit. Not sure why it matters to you how much Flacco contributes to lower cap room though.

Though the fact Flacco is going to have sharply increasing cap hits over the next few seasons plays into tht as well. It's clear Baltimore doesn't think they would be able to resign him in the future, and much of that has to do with Flacco and their other top end players. It's not unique to Baltimore but I'm not sure why you want to deny its happening


It doesn't matter to me. You were the one saying that they couldn't be able to sign certain players because of his contract. It's just simply not true.

And, sure, they over extended and are paying the piper this offseason...they still were NFL champions in return though. And they'll be far from gutting the team. They are one of the better managed teams in the NFL, and even you'd have to agree with that.

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Posted on Tue Mar 12, 2013 22:56:15
Again, not sure why you're taking this SO defensively... we all know what happened with the Ravens last year, but that was last season and this is now and the now is that the Ravens are going to lose and have lost key players (Boldin, Kruger and Ellerbe) to FA or trade due to the fact they had a tight budget AND they committed a long term big bucks deal to Flacco. And let's be real... dealing Boldin got you guys a 6th round pick, so unless you draft the next Tom Brady in the 6th round, it's an irrelevant pick. Ravens just couldn't afford the extra $2m/yr. The Ravens were managed pretty well over the past few years, obviously seeing as they built a championship team, but now let's see how well their management really is: staying competitive after a championship and how they go about dealing with the much more expensive contracts their players are going to command on the open market or to resign with the team.

Miami signing Wallace is probably the biggest move of FA so far, and he's a good compliment to a couple other young WRs on the team. Not sure if Tannehill/Moore will do them any favors throwing him the ball though.

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Sekhmet

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 01:33:22
Flacco destroyed any chances of the Ravens bothering anyone for probably 2-3 years.

49ers got Boldin and will probably get Ed Lewis too. No surprise considering we took a couple of Giants last year. I like that 'If you can't beat them, sign them' philosophy.

Getting rid of Alex was a good thing. I hope he likes KC. I'll always have nice thoughts for him and wish he could've settled for a cut in pay as a back up.

Goldson and Walker are gone. I'll just assume Coach see's some good draft picks.

A 6th round pick for Boldin? That's hella cheap for a guy that's just hitting his prime. He's 27, I believe, and only his 3rd season? Brotherly love I guess. Or John is going to make Jim pay out his ass for Lewis, lol.

I'm a conspiracy theorist...what are those HarBro's up to?

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_TheCrow_

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 01:46:31
Boldin is actually 32 and will likely start declining befor too long, but a 6th was nothing for what he brings to the table now.

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 03:11:02
Oh, I heard he was 27. I better check my sources.

I did hear that he wanted to retire a Raven and thought he was a bit young to worry about that. I mean one year with a Super Bowl bound team, get another ring (must be some sort of one of a kind record there), re-sign with the Ravens for nothing and retire.

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KickRocks

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 14:00:47
By Sekhmet [79965]
Oh, I heard he was 27. I better check my sources.

I did hear that he wanted to retire a Raven and thought he was a bit young to worry about that. I mean one year with a Super Bowl bound team, get another ring (must be some sort of one of a kind record there), re-sign with the Ravens for nothing and retire.


You outta check your sources on a lot of things you post.

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 14:07:53
By bosox [278767]
Again, not sure why you're taking this SO defensively... we all know what happened with the Ravens last year, but that was last season and this is now and the now is that the Ravens are going to lose and have lost key players (Boldin, Kruger and Ellerbe) to FA or trade due to the fact they had a tight budget AND they committed a long term big bucks deal to Flacco. And let's be real... dealing Boldin got you guys a 6th round pick, so unless you draft the next Tom Brady in the 6th round, it's an irrelevant pick. Ravens just couldn't afford the extra $2m/yr. The Ravens were managed pretty well over the past few years, obviously seeing as they built a championship team, but now let's see how well their management really is: staying competitive after a championship and how they go about dealing with the much more expensive contracts their players are going to command on the open market or to resign with the team.

Miami signing Wallace is probably the biggest move of FA so far, and he's a good compliment to a couple other young WRs on the team. Not sure if Tannehill/Moore will do them any favors throwing him the ball though.


It's not an irrelevant pick, even if they do decide to use it in the 6th round. Teams do trade picks after all. Things happen on draft day and the Birds know how to draft.

Last Edited: Wed Mar 13, 2013 14:08:53
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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 17:11:58
A 6th round pick is mostly irrelevant in almost all cases. Even a 4th round pick is sort of the standard "just throw in a pick" hook. Boldin may not have 6 years ahead of him, but 2-3 seasons of very productive play is reasonable to expect and for that a 6th round pick is basically giving him away for free because the Ravens are too tied up to afford his contract and don't want to flat out cut him

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IN_COLD_BLOOD

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 20:49:23
so shonn greene signed with titans - im interested to see how he compliments johnson, reggie bush signed with lions - no biggie, mike wallace signed with miami - if tannehill is real deal then that may work. welker in serious talks with denver, wont really hurt new england too bad if their tight ends can stay healthy for entire season. I also hear the ravens are gunna cut bernard pollard - interested to see where he ends up.

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KickRocks

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 21:02:00
By bosox [278767]
A 6th round pick is mostly irrelevant in almost all cases. Even a 4th round pick is sort of the standard "just throw in a pick" hook. Boldin may not have 6 years ahead of him, but 2-3 seasons of very productive play is reasonable to expect and for that a 6th round pick is basically giving him away for free because the Ravens are too tied up to afford his contract and don't want to flat out cut him


Exactly. So they salvaged something for him instead of just terminating his contract.

Trust me, as a fan is kills me to watch them have to let go of so many quality players, but that's part of the game. If you breed good young talent, sometimes you have to let them go. I could name 30+ players without even trying that I've seen leave over the years cause they just simply couldn't afford to keep them. It's nothing new.

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 21:30:52
Welker to Denver is official. Think they are scared of a lack of production though, only a 2 year contract. But Thomas, Decker and Welker sounds scary with even a scrub QB.

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 22:58:14
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
Welker to Denver is official. Think they are scared of a lack of production though, only a 2 year contract. But Thomas, Decker and Welker sounds scary with even a scrub QB.


yea welker is gunna shine with manning as his QB... he made a good choice signing there. i said it before the talk even began that denver would be a perfect fit for him. New England took a hit but are still good because they have dual fast TEs, and they kinda act like slot receivers going over the middle.

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KickRocks

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 23:11:53
He fills the Brandon Stokley void. Sure, he's younger too...but does he have the chemistry Manning and Stokley had? Not a chance.

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 23:13:48
By IN_COLD_BLOOD [1613784]
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
Welker to Denver is official. Think they are scared of a lack of production though, only a 2 year contract. But Thomas, Decker and Welker sounds scary with even a scrub QB.


yea welker is gunna shine with manning as his QB... he made a good choice signing there. i said it before the talk even began that denver would be a perfect fit for him. New England took a hit but are still good because they have dual fast TEs, and they kinda act like slot receivers going over the middle.


Thats all fine and dandy until 'Magic Gronk' smashes up his elbow again freakin in the club lol.

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 23:18:46
By KickRocks [1030718]
He fills the Brandon Stokley void. Sure, he's younger too...but does he have the chemistry Manning and Stokley had? Not a chance.


I don't think the "chemistry" is really gonna matter when the tandem is THAT talented and has even more talent around them. Sure he probably won't be catching 100+ balls there, but thats more to do with competing with Thomas and Decker for balls. I've always liked Stokley, but Manning made him look good, and Welker doesn't need help looking that good. I know some people will say he drops a ball here and that but what do you expect when your catching 100+ for 5 years? Can't always be perfect.

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 23:32:51
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
By IN_COLD_BLOOD [1613784]
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
Welker to Denver is official. Think they are scared of a lack of production though, only a 2 year contract. But Thomas, Decker and Welker sounds scary with even a scrub QB.


yea welker is gunna shine with manning as his QB... he made a good choice signing there. i said it before the talk even began that denver would be a perfect fit for him. New England took a hit but are still good because they have dual fast TEs, and they kinda act like slot receivers going over the middle.


Thats all fine and dandy until 'Magic Gronk' smashes up his elbow again freakin in the club lol.


I'm a jets fan - i hope that's the case, even if they lose gronk they still got hernandez and i honestly think they can use edelman as a slot if needed. I hate the pats just as much as te next guy but im just being realistic with their situation. As for chemistry with manning and welker... i dont think there will be a problem at all. I think they will click within the first 3-4 weeks of the season if not immediately

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KickRocks

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 23:33:15
meh, he was the optimum slot receiver. When someone is your second or third check down on most plays...I think chemistry has quite a bit to do with it.

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 23:37:38
By KickRocks [1030718]
meh, he was the optimum slot receiver. When someone is your second or third check down on most plays...I think chemistry has quite a bit to do with it.


With im and brady - sure, Him and Manning will certainly work out during the summer, get a feel for each other. I don't think them forming a chemistry is gunna take all that long - that was the small point i was trying to make.

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Posted on Wed Mar 13, 2013 23:48:40
I'm sure they will, they are professionals. Stokley was one of my favs when he was a Raven and I enjoyed watching him have success with Indy and Manning. Shame to watch him get snub'd for, what I perceive as, much of the same. Welker isn't gonna make or break Denver next year, by any stretch.

Last Edited: Wed Mar 13, 2013 23:49:28
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Posted on Thu Mar 14, 2013 02:32:02
Pats have Amendola now. Mixed feelings on that. Don't think he's as good as Welker overall, but he's a better outside and deep threat. Funny though, they actually gave him a long term deal and at average 6 mil plus per year after offering Welker 5. I snide message towards Welker maybe?

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Posted on Thu Mar 14, 2013 19:17:26
By _TheCrow_ [686314]
Pats have Amendola now. Mixed feelings on that. Don't think he's as good as Welker overall, but he's a better outside and deep threat. Funny though, they actually gave him a long term deal and at average 6 mil plus per year after offering Welker 5. I snide message towards Welker maybe?


i think the coach still blames him for that drop in the super bowl. A couple of those drops were just bad throws.

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Posted on Thu Mar 14, 2013 20:07:06
By KickRocks [1030718]
I'm sure they will, they are professionals. Stokley was one of my favs when he was a Raven and I enjoyed watching him have success with Indy and Manning. Shame to watch him get snub'd for, what I perceive as, much of the same. Welker isn't gonna make or break Denver next year, by any stretch.


Agreed

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Posted on Thu Mar 14, 2013 21:44:05
As for Welker going to Denver... he'll be good. Competing with Thomas and Decker for balls is going to limit Welker to under 100 catches? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Welker was catching 100+ passes when he was competing with Moss or Gronkowski for multiple years. Welker will be fine in Denver. As for the fact that the Pats didn't resign him.... not sure what to think here. Clearly the Patriots were not heavily interested in him, as they only offered $5m per over 2 seasons, yet signed Amendola for 5 yr $30m+. Then again, Welker was whining for two years about wanting a long term deal worth big bucks, yet goes and signs a short term deal for nearly $4m less than what we paid him last season, what, 48 hours after he became a UFA? Seems fishy on both sides, really. I think both sides were not interested in each other.

As for the Patriots signing Amendola... not sure how I feel. If he can ever stay healthy, I think he'd be more than fine in making up for most of Welker's production... but if you're looking for production similar to Welker... why not pay Welker less money to keep the guy you know can put up 115 catches for 1,200 yards? Honestly, I would rather get away from those slot type receivers....what has it gotten us? We've had the best slot guy in the league for 6 years now and sure, our offense has been prolific.... but we've also had guys catching around 13-23 TDs each year OTHER than Welker. And, not for nothing, but rolling out Gronk, Hernandez, Lloyd and then fill in the blank isn't a terrible offensive set either, to compliment our fairly strong running game. In other words, Welker is replaceable but why bother replacing him with someone else who isn't as good for more money than the guy you had? I question that move.

The only way I'll be ok with this off season is if the Pats pour money into defense. We NEED defense. We've scored well over 500 points a season in the past 3 years, and the other two times since 2007 we didn't was without Brady in 08 and in 09 when we "only" put up 427. We can afford to average 30 points a game instead of 34, IF we can get some defense! That's all I ask for... I'm fine with the move if we balance it out with some D.

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Posted on Thu Mar 14, 2013 21:51:19
And KicksRocks... I realllyyy don't know why you are having so much anxiety with this....

Every team loses players all the time that they can't afford. Every Super Bowl winning team loses players because they get the big pay day from other teams. Look at what the Giants lost just last year, and I wont even go into how many great players the Pats didn't resign after their run of championships... so yes, it's not unique that free agency kills Super Bowl teams.... but that is exasperated when the team is working with a tight budget after agreeing to a long term deal worth big bucks to one player. Baltimore and everyone else saw this slew of free agents leaving the team coming... but you think it's helping them that they gave Flacco that much money?

Basically... other teams overpay to pick players off Super Bowl winning teams, and the Ravens overpaid to keep Flacco from hitting that market in the near future, and they're "paying" for it double by having less money going forward in what was already going to be a rough off-season due to the title.

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Posted on Thu Mar 14, 2013 22:00:06
I, as a fan that follows the team, knew this was going to happen this offseason even prior to last year. There is no anxiety on this end. Ozzie Newsome is easily one of the best GMs in the game and this position is not new for him. I piped up when you kept insisting that their line up being picked apart this offseason has anything to do with Flacco's new contract.

The Ravens are going to put out a more than formidable team this year to defend their title. I am not worried. And it looks like Flacco and Tavon Austin have a workout planned in a few weeks. If he drops to them in the first, you're gonna see another local drafted...and they've had pretty good luck with local boys over the years, especially wide outs.



Where do you think Harrison and Reed are gonna end up, bosox? I'm pretty sure Reed wasn't offered anything much on the Ravens end to stick around.

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Posted on Thu Mar 14, 2013 22:19:38
I don't think the Ravens will be anywhere near as competitive as they were this year. Let's also not forget, Baltimore very nearly played themselves out of the playoffs last year. So for as good as they were in the playoffs, they were a tie-breaker away from being a Wild Card team that would have had to play the Texans instead of the Colts, for one, and were also only 2 games ahead of the Steelers who played without their starting QB and were only an 8 win team. So, let's not pretend Baltimore walked through the regular season and they can afford to lose key guys...

Ravens have:
lost Team leader in sacks
lost Team leader in yards and receptions
lost 2nd team leader in receptions
Cut your team leader in tackles
Lost another one of your best tacklers
Probably going to lose one of your best safeties who is tied for a team best in INTs.

Combine that with Cleveland getting better, Cincy looking like they've got something brewing with Dalton and Green and add in the fact Pittsburgh will probably at least be competitive, again, with you.... and I don't see how Baltimore puts out a formidable team in 2013. Good for you that you guys made the run and got the title, but I do not see any threat of a repeat or contention next year. Familiarize yourself with the words "Super Bowl Hangover." Comparison? 2010 SB Champs lost first round of playoffs in '11. The 2009 Champs lost their first playoff game in 2010. The 2008 Champs missed the 09 playoffs. The 2007 Champs lost their first 08 playoff game. The 2006 Champs lost their first 07 playoff game. The 2005 Champs missed the 06 playoffs....... Ironically, the 2011 Patriots were the most recent Super Bowl team (winning or losing) to even make it back to their conference's title game since.... well, the 2004 Patriots won back to back titles Basically... Super Bowl teams don't normally follow it up, and ESPECIALLY not so when they have little cap room and lose most of their good players.

As for Reed and Harrison... still a shot Patriots resign at least one of them... and in all honesty, whichever comes cheaper is probably the most likely one NE would sign. Supposedly Houston is interested in Reed... but Houston has defense anyways, and would have been better if not for some injuries. So I don't know how much money they'd be willing to spend, plus I think we all agree their window is officially closing/closed on winning a title.

**edit: lol, I said "plaid"**

Last Edited: Thu Mar 14, 2013 22:48:16
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Posted on Thu Mar 14, 2013 22:30:25
All in how you look at it, I suppose. I could argue that they got healthy, as the Indy play off game was the first game the entire defense was playing.

Historically, Raven defensive players that have left to sign elsewhere for big money cause they made waves while in Baltimore (your 'good players'), have had poor success once making the transition. Meanwhile, the Ravens still seem to contend and make the play offs. Just speaking from what has happened in the past, though.

We'll see. I'm actually kind of excited to see some fresh faces on the defense. Not to mention the 'good players' that are still under contract...which includes Ngata, Rice & Suggs.


As far as why Joe Flacco is worth the money he was signed to...you'd just have to have lived through it. Joe Flacco is a franchise QB, like it or not. He is quality, like it or not. Baltimore went from 1996-2008 without a prayer at QB. That is why he is worth every penny.


edit: Except 1996..Vinny was a pro bowler that year. Just was too old to try and build a team around.

Last Edited: Thu Mar 14, 2013 22:33:20
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Posted on Thu Mar 14, 2013 23:00:07
But that doesn't come in to play anymore. You are no longer the little brother who's knocking on the door with the same guys every year and who can fall back on the history of them playing together, and can laugh at how other players they let go don't adapt to new teams... you are The Man now, the target is on your back. It doesn't matter how Boldin, Eberle, Kruger, Reed, Pitta play on their new teams; the fact is you won a title with them and you don't have them anymore. Fresh faces are good if you keep most of your core and add someone else to replace the retirees and the few inevitable FA losses after a title, but not when you have to literally turn over most of your defense and a couple pretty good offensive guys. Baltimore had the winning forumla last year, and now you have to hope you can repeat it with a very different looking roster, which is never likely. The bar is now set at Super Bowl in Baltimore, and trust me it will be very disappointing if/when the Ravens struggle to do anything in January.

And pah-lease with the lived through it. Again, NOTHING special or new that Baltimore or Flacco did in the football world. Flacco is good, but he hasn't showed he can be consistently great and, in all honesty, if you had a more consistent QB you'd probably be looking at multiple titles over these past 5 years. I highly doubt that any other team was going to offer Flacco anywhere near what you guys did.....

For comparison:

Eli Manning has thrown for 4,000+ YDs four times and thrown more TDs than Flacco 4 times in his career, compared to Flacco's career best 3,800 YD just once. Manning also won a Super Bowl in his 4th year as opposed to Flacco's 5th, and it took him two Super Bowls before he started creating cap hits of $20m/yr.... and no one really even considers Eli a great QB.

Last Edited: Thu Mar 14, 2013 23:03:40
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