Thread created on Fri Feb 22, 2013 05:52:54 Last replied to on Wed Mar 06, 2013 00:53:12
This is not a thread created to try and prompt mindless petty accusations flying around over who's doing what.. I want to hear your views on the subject of scripting whether it be changing the background colour / somehow scanning multiple peoples personal details alerting people on a sudden blip i.e bazaar sale.
I personally don't like the use of scripts, i can't remember who made said scripts but i remember using a crime history one, to record my success rate etc from 30/35 nerve if i remember correctly and i remember it randomly bugged out on me literally 3 maybe 4 days before it increased which sucked as i done warehouse arson and warehouse arson only, without changing anything half way i.e no merit upgrades crime enhancers any other perks etc just to keep a clean record of my crimes for future use, and i've used the award organizer one several times when making myself personal goals i like to look what i'm close / semi close to getting and if i feel it's achievable i'll go for it.
Two very nice scripts that i wish the game implanted, although it did pretty much now you can hover over a locked award and it tells you the requirement which is awesome and is what i used mainly to make my current goals, Id love for the game, not some bugged graphs allow us to record data such as gym gains and criminal history easily but meh...
What i don't like is the new scripts that have been wrote lately like for instance the one that seemingly keeps the jail pretty much empty most of the time nowdays which it never use to be, i guess to get a chance to bust someone nowdays it takes you having to use a script? I've never downloaded the script mentioned above but did read a post made by the creator of all the new features and remember thinking holy f**k this thing does a lot..
That's just my view anyway that i don't like scripts that seemingly give a huge advantage to those using it in several aspects of the game, If i'm honest i don't remember much else the script does as i said i just remember it has a hell of a lot of features, i choose not to use it and just play the game how i want to -.-
I would love to see all scripts banned, there's several nice scripts like the one that can aid you in recording crime history and the award organizer one was very nice, featurs id like to see in the game, but there's some that just make you feel like it makes that part of the game pretty pointless, of course there's also a few "black market" scripts by the look of it, i.e people staying logged in 24/7 not going to mention names but Nerbas HoF aided finding this out.. several high profile bans that have happened in the past over "illegal" scripting, one recently of a very rich citizen, who was using a dodgy script to obviously do something illegal, unable to say what as it's none of my business. But thankfully the cheaters have been dealt with.
What I want to know is views on scripting, ow many scripts do you use if any at all? and do you feel they should be made illegal or stay legal.
What i would like is for Mr Joe Chedburn to do a public poll like he did with the Cashier's Check system, maybe try and keep it an unbiased poll and allow citizens to choose since it's us who play the game that it affects, (certain scripts)
Your views please without any bullshit accusations of who does what, especially with no proof.
Thanks
Never used any scripts. Don't like the fact that people have to use scripts to get ahead in a text based game.
If you need a script to do something and it's useful to the entire community it should be built into the game IMO e.g. Exchanging flowers for points at the museum. Do I really have to click "exchange another" when I have 132 sets I want to convert to points? Currently yes, as I don't use scripts. Updates like these should be easy to implement but obviously focus is on other changes and these are not deemed necessary which prompts those that don't want to click hundreds of times to bypass the current system and make it easier for themselves.
Any other scripts that give advantages to people over other players should be banned IMO
There shouldn't even be a poll and scripting should be completely illegal. Period. No matter how big or small, how much or how little, help for some and not all is just crap. There should be NO assistance to players that the game itself does not offer.
If you have an idea for a script that you think could benefit players it should be run by a dev and let them check it out and if it's beneficial to everyone it should be put in game for EVERYONE to use just like City Watch.
Any players using scripts not approved by Dev's and offered in game should be fedded.
Me- "I received a 30 day ban, then 4 days later I noticed it became a 60 day ban. Why?
I don't much like scripts. I don't like the argument of a script that doesn't give you an advantage (which will be repeated a thousand times in this thread, no doubt. i.e. busting, collecting data).
If it didn't give you an advantage you wouldn't use it.
Play the game that has been made or allow all scripts. The differences you all point between the different scripts available aren't real differences at all.
(Not a response to anyone, just things that I'm sure will be typed shortly.)
1 shares in ISTC have been sold for $364. You can withdraw your check from the bank, or wait for it to be credited to your account in 24 hours.
Seems several people already have a similar view, the stuff some of the scripts do are pretty much user suggestions actually made possible, people are using the script like the point exchange one.. BECAUSE nobody listens to what people want.. so they are forced into using scripts.
I think the "user friendly" scripts Chedburn and co should listen to what the people want / already have right now but make it happen, hell there's one guy who is asking Chedburn to hire him, Joe please listen to the player! not saying hire him! but i believe he's very good at what he does, he's a player he understands what we want and i'm sure can make it happen.
I will personally start donating more if more is done and i feel like we the players do actually get heard.
Scripts robots.. macros whatever you want to call it ruin a game.. a game is suppose to be played and enjoyed by someone not a computer.
Allow us to buy the user friendly features with points, city watch is an amazing addon, could be improved and would like many more ingame notifications but the concept of ingame paid addons are very good and should happen more.
I'm sure citywatch wasn't cheap and it needs $$$ same with hiring the team of devs but please listen to what we want and not sweep it under the table and at least consider it.
This thread will collapse, like all threads like these. The main problem is that people don't understand scripts, and by nature we despise and fear things we don't understand.
By AquaRegia [1551111]
This thread will collapse, like all threads like these. The main problem is that people don't understand scripts, and by nature we despise and fear things we don't understand.
If people do not understand then explain.
Hiring for my company 50k int=600k. Druggies are welcome if active. Paying 350k for stalemates, I will unload weapons so anyone can do it.
By AquaRegia [1551111]
This thread will collapse, like all threads like these. The main problem is that people don't understand scripts, and by nature we despise and fear things we don't understand.
If people do not understand then explain.
Here's a very simple way of explaining scripts, in a way that others can understand.
Scripts automate tasks.
These can be small (Re-arrange a faction user list)
Or they can be HUGE (Auto-exchange flowers)
Essentially these scripts were made to make a task quicker, easier, or more user friendly.
Let's take the user list sorter (I have no made one, I know they are available though).
You could write down all the details onto paper/excel.
You could then sort them however you want, manually. (Or automatic with excel)
But the script saves you writing them down - More user friendly and quicker and easier.
This is something that *should* be implemented into torn.
Now lets look at the museum script.
Originally, you could just press F5 in the museum.
This made exchanging 1,000's of flower sets very fast.
This got "chedded", and you had to click twice for each flower set (Now just once)
This script was developed to go back to the original, as close as possible, and allow fast exchanging.
This was "bringing a 'feature' back" more than anything else.
Now illegal scripts
These are 100% automated. (Sometimes)
They cause serious benefit to the player (Auto Training)
They can limit other players (Buy *ALL* the points from market, leaving none for anyone else)
Or they can be using an exploit (Something no-one should have access to)
These do not enhance, or simplify game play at all. They do everything for the player.
If you want to think of it as "modify your F1 car for a race"...
The simple scripts change the stickers
The more advanced ones change the wheels
The illegal ones automatically drive the car.
I make scripts (Nothing to hide)
I make them to enhance the user experience.
Most of the scripts I make, I would love to see implemented into Torn.
But I know they wouldn't.
Torn 2.0 is in development, along with bugs/future updates already being discussed/coded.
So there is "no time".
And all my scripts are on my userscripts page, and *some* are on my profile.
Anyone can look at them, at any time.
TL;DR - Scripts make things easier/quicker. If you think you know of any illegal ones - report them. (Both the script & author.)
Ched, Hire me as a developer. Peek my profile!
God watches you have a poo. Serious. _
In Laymen terms, script are stepping stone for game user.
The stepping stone gives extra support in the gaming style. I.e. you can eat 20 lolipops with a push of a button.
However, some script actually ruining the natural flow of the game as there are users who gets/steal the benefited at the expense of others who, supposedly, are entitled to receive/not losing the said benefit.
Nice explanation there. Honestly im not quite sure how is a crime recording script for example giving you an advantage over others (that was to Catheads statement). It doesnt modify gameplay in any way.
But im curious - all this saying all scripts should be banned.
How would that actually be enforced.
Apart from obvious cases like working on 100 pages or clicking with inhuman speed - how would the servers tell whether a (smartly written) script is at use?
But eating 20 lolipops at once isn't part of the game.
I know I'm going to sound like a (lollipop)stick in the mud, but if lollipops were meant to be eaten 20 at once, there would be a button for that. There are other items that give more happiness than lollipops and therefore if you want more happiness you should buy those items (or eat 20 lollipops the way you are supposed to).
The minor ones like ordering names on a list don't bother me as much (because they are just for aesthetic purposes) the ones where you automate actions or repeat and action so many times (busting and using items, mainly) do affect your game, it's a work round of the rules and limitations that the game sets in place (other people busting someone before you get the chance, the happiness reset limitation).
1 shares in ISTC have been sold for $364. You can withdraw your check from the bank, or wait for it to be credited to your account in 24 hours.
For the record, I don't use scripts, and I've never been given cause to accuse any individual of using a script to mug me.
I don't have a problem with browser scripts that change the layout, automate functions that are a pain in the ass (flower exchange, using meds) by being able to press a button and do a repetitive task that should be a game feature.
I do have an issue with the theoretically possible automated collection of a players data that gives intelligence that can be used to gain an advantage.
I have no idea if scripts are being used to collect this type of data, but if the data is available, at some point someone may abuse it using a script. Example - Flower running scripts.
There was data that isn't available to legitimate muggers that [I]could[/] have been exploited by calling it from a script. This was spotted, reported as a bug (by someone else) and fixed.
Its the difference between stalking a mugging target (hats off to the players that do this) and getting a script to automatically scan a batch of players to hand them targets on a plate.
Hope this is clearer than the post that pissed you off.
Scripts should be legal, since they allow people to play the game how they want. It's like the customizable homepage, where you can move things around and close sections if you want. Why can't I do that with other pages? Or say rehab where a slider was added so I don't have to click 200 times, yet if I want to exchange flowers there is no slider, why? These are simple little things that make the game more enjoyable. What difference does it make if I click once or 200 times to exchange flowers? The difference is I enjoy the game more, it's not just sitting here mindlessly clicking to do the same menial task over and over again.
As for illegal scripts, instead of saying they're illegal, just set up the game so that they're not possible, and that way if someone is bypassing it to make it possible, then they're abusing a bug. Like the mug scripts for example. Scanning attack logs looking for high dollar mugs got people deleted a year ago, yet instead of simply removing the dollar amount from attack logs (thus making the script useless), they say it's illegal, yet next to impossible to prove if it's being done. Busting scripts should suffer the same fate, just add a captcha to busting, and the script becomes obsolete. Then you don't have to try to figure out who is busting 100 people a day because they're super active, or using a script. Bottomline, there shouldn't be illegal scripts, there should just be measures to make them unable to be used.
Buying bulk Boxes of Grenades 1mil each - Just start trade for fast sale
By JimmyJames [581165]
Scripts should be legal, since they allow people to play the game how they want. It's like the customizable homepage, where you can move things around and close sections if you want. Why can't I do that with other pages? Or say rehab where a slider was added so I don't have to click 200 times, yet if I want to exchange flowers there is no slider, why? These are simple little things that make the game more enjoyable. What difference does it make if I click once or 200 times to exchange flowers? The difference is I enjoy the game more, it's not just sitting here mindlessly clicking to do the same menial task over and over again.
As for illegal scripts, instead of saying they're illegal, just set up the game so that they're not possible, and that way if someone is bypassing it to make it possible, then they're abusing a bug. Like the mug scripts for example. Scanning attack logs looking for high dollar mugs got people deleted a year ago, yet instead of simply removing the dollar amount from attack logs (thus making the script useless), they say it's illegal, yet next to impossible to prove if it's being done. Busting scripts should suffer the same fate, just add a captcha to busting, and the script becomes obsolete. Then you don't have to try to figure out who is busting 100 people a day because they're super active, or using a script. Bottomline, there shouldn't be illegal scripts, there should just be measures to make them unable to be used.
So you want people to have 5000 trillion dollars, bounty every single soul in torn and the game to not be playable? Scripts are evil, dont use them.
Selling 2 Private Islands(both 3700 happiness) for 860mil or give me a good offer.
Also selling a MCS Benifit Block at 96% or offer.
By JimmyJames [581165]
Scripts should be legal, since they allow people to play the game how they want. It's like the customizable homepage, where you can move things around and close sections if you want. Why can't I do that with other pages? Or say rehab where a slider was added so I don't have to click 200 times, yet if I want to exchange flowers there is no slider, why? These are simple little things that make the game more enjoyable. What difference does it make if I click once or 200 times to exchange flowers? The difference is I enjoy the game more, it's not just sitting here mindlessly clicking to do the same menial task over and over again.
As for illegal scripts, instead of saying they're illegal, just set up the game so that they're not possible, and that way if someone is bypassing it to make it possible, then they're abusing a bug. Like the mug scripts for example. Scanning attack logs looking for high dollar mugs got people deleted a year ago, yet instead of simply removing the dollar amount from attack logs (thus making the script useless), they say it's illegal, yet next to impossible to prove if it's being done. Busting scripts should suffer the same fate, just add a captcha to busting, and the script becomes obsolete. Then you don't have to try to figure out who is busting 100 people a day because they're super active, or using a script. Bottomline, there shouldn't be illegal scripts, there should just be measures to make them unable to be used.
So you want people to have 5000 trillion dollars, bounty every single soul in torn and the game to not be playable? Scripts are evil, dont use them.
Yes, that's exactly what I said. -_-
Buying bulk Boxes of Grenades 1mil each - Just start trade for fast sale
By JimmyJames [581165]
Scripts should be legal, since they allow people to play the game how they want. It's like the customizable homepage, where you can move things around and close sections if you want. Why can't I do that with other pages? Or say rehab where a slider was added so I don't have to click 200 times, yet if I want to exchange flowers there is no slider, why? These are simple little things that make the game more enjoyable. What difference does it make if I click once or 200 times to exchange flowers? The difference is I enjoy the game more, it's not just sitting here mindlessly clicking to do the same menial task over and over again.
As for illegal scripts, instead of saying they're illegal, just set up the game so that they're not possible, and that way if someone is bypassing it to make it possible, then they're abusing a bug. Like the mug scripts for example. Scanning attack logs looking for high dollar mugs got people deleted a year ago, yet instead of simply removing the dollar amount from attack logs (thus making the script useless), they say it's illegal, yet next to impossible to prove if it's being done. Busting scripts should suffer the same fate, just add a captcha to busting, and the script becomes obsolete. Then you don't have to try to figure out who is busting 100 people a day because they're super active, or using a script. Bottomline, there shouldn't be illegal scripts, there should just be measures to make them unable to be used.
I agree 100% with both the busting and mugging script in fact id love that.. it will make mugging much for challenging, and people won't jump on your own mugs well it depends for example when there's a noob with an island on the market, gone afk been tested for revives on/off you can be sure there's at least 5 others who are about to buy the island / watching when it's sold lol, so people jump straight onto your mugs happens all the time, it's all part of the fun
But the fact log lurker won't be able to find your mugs is awesome! the busting issue is just stupid end off..
Would you not agree then that the user friendly scripts like the ones you explain it would make more sense for them to be implanted into the game? I sure as hell would, little things one i noticed earlier, trades, when adding items to trade you have to do it 1 by 1, i don't even know if there is a script for this.. they changed it for bazaars and display cases yet they haven't put the same system in place for adding multiple items at once in trades, things like that should just be inplanted into the game so one wouldn't have to use a script to do so
All these little changes should be there in the fist place, just my opinion
Caveat: I don't use any user created scripts for anything.
I don't believe scripts for *anything* should be allowed, whether it's for rearranging pages, exchanging flowers, or finding mug targets.
Having a nonsensical definition as 'not giving the player an advantage' is worse than useless, and has allowed this massive grey area to develop. Of course having a flower exchange script gives you an advantage, is saves you time in the game, and that's an advantage.
If the suggestions forum was actually followed, and the simpler ones implemented more quickly, such as the flower exchange one, then 99% of them wouldn't be needed anyway. However, as the suggestions forum is currently pretty much ignored by anyone with any power/ability to change anything, people will continue to use them to the overall detriment of the game.
TL;DR? Allow all of them, or allow none. I don't really care either way, but personally I think scripts are the wrong way to go.
Scripts are good, however, they can do bad things.
Umbrellas are also good, they are mainly used to keep you dry when it's raining, but you can also use umbrellas to stab people. Does that mean we should ban all umbrellas and punish people who use them to keep themselves dry when it's raining?
By AquaRegia [1551111]
Scripts are good, however, they can do bad things.
Umbrellas are also good, they are mainly used to keep you dry when it's raining, but you can also use umbrellas to stab people. Does that mean we should ban all umbrellas and punish people who use them to keep themselves dry when it's raining?
Like paper gives paper cuts. I see your point.
Selling 2 Private Islands(both 3700 happiness) for 860mil or give me a good offer.
Also selling a MCS Benifit Block at 96% or offer.
By AquaRegia [1551111]
Scripts are good, however, they can do bad things.
Umbrellas are also good, they are mainly used to keep you dry when it's raining, but you can also use umbrellas to stab people. Does that mean we should ban all umbrellas and punish people who use them to keep themselves dry when it's raining?
It's like your posts are designed to make people angry, if you keep typing like people are stupid it's no wonder these conversations break down quickly into slagging matches.
A better analogy for real life would be: Playing a game of football and someone changing the ball so that when he pressed a button on his sock, it comes back to him. Then everyone seeing he's done that and copying. Until eventually it's not really football anymore, it's press a button on your sock ball.
Or a game of chess where someone says "No, my king can move two spaces."
Or any other games that have rules and those rules are worked around. Whether to make something easier or something with a more sinister effect.
Umbrellas are a cheat anyway.
I agree with the others that say if suggestions were implemented and the game made more user friendly, we wouldn't need scripts.
Last Edited: Fri Feb 22, 2013 09:34:14
1 shares in ISTC have been sold for $364. You can withdraw your check from the bank, or wait for it to be credited to your account in 24 hours.
I try and put 100 beers on the item market at the lowest price around. I'd hate to have to do that in 100 small steps ).
I rather do rely on Cyberdud's cript for marketing.
Because Darth Vader was a pansy!
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain
By DarthBrogo [21801]
I try and put 100 beers on the item market at the lowest price around. I'd hate to have to do that in 100 small steps ).
I rather do rely on Cyberdud's cript for marketing.
You may hate it, but it's part of the game. The entire game is based around clicking links on the screen. If you bypass some of the clicks, you're bypassing part of the game.
In my opinion a script is made because it's a users suggestion that they're implanting into the game themselves lol (Sites user friendly scripts)
If Ched and co made these suggestions/features happen, there would be no need for them, and everyone's happy, no need for scripts and most of the other ones
*don't fall into the category of making the site more user friendly* are for illegal / borderline illegal.
Reason.. implant more user friendly suggestions and ban them.
By Franky [1529693]
Never used any scripts. Don't like the fact that people have to use scripts to get ahead in a text based game.
If you need a script to do something and it's useful to the entire community it should be built into the game IMO e.g. Exchanging flowers for points at the museum. Do I really have to click "exchange another" when I have 132 sets I want to convert to points? Currently yes, as I don't use scripts. Updates like these should be easy to implement but obviously focus is on other changes and these are not deemed necessary which prompts those that don't want to click hundreds of times to bypass the current system and make it easier for themselves.
Any other scripts that give advantages to people over other players should be banned IMO
By DarthBrogo [21801]
I try and put 100 beers on the item market at the lowest price around. I'd hate to have to do that in 100 small steps ).
I rather do rely on Cyberdud's cript for marketing.
You may hate it, but it's part of the game. The entire game is based around clicking links on the screen. If you bypass some of the clicks, you're bypassing part of the game.
To the best of my knowledge legally - ergo, it is in the game. If Cyberdude's script was somehow against the game,surely there would be some sanction agaist it. I'm not giving myself an advantage, I'm making something available for others cheaply. I could sell the same stuff at 100-200 more.
Because Darth Vader was a pansy!
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain
The problem is most people don't seem to understand what a script is, and see no difference between them, and say, a freakin' stylesheet (see OP referring to background colour changes).
As AquaRegia so rightly pointed out, you fear what you don't understand.
Now, in a perfect world, simple fixes (that some people have made scripts to overcome) SHOULD be posted in the suggestions forum, and SHOULD be looked at by those with the power to implement the decent ones, but they must be too busy or something, which is why the fauxmittee is around (well 1 of the reasons) to run back and forth between the ivory tower and the 'peasants' bringing scraps to the black hole that is the hidden fauxmittee subforum for (possible) 5 year debate over every niggling detail (unless it's just a rubber stamping) then a possible implementation much much later on down the line.
So while I agree that botting should be illegal (as I believe that is the official claim that it is) and people should not be able to use scripts to access information they shouldn't (ie. end of investments and so forth), I do not think it's feasible nor fair to ban all scripts.
It's also unhelpful to post suggestions such as "ban them all" or "catch the cheaters"; these off the cuff remarks don't further the conversation nor do they suggest any valid (and doable) measures. I think you can't do much more regarding the illegal kind of scripts than doing what they're already doing; which is to investigate reports, and close up access to info that should not be accessible - ie. a case by case basis.
By JimmyJames [581165]
Busting scripts should suffer the same fate, just add a captcha to busting, and the script becomes obsolete. Then you don't have to try to figure out who is busting 100 people a day because they're super active, or using a script.
I'm not directing this at you Jimmy because I'm pretty sure you didnt' start this one, but here's another problem with these script discussion threads. Rumours get started claiming people are "using scripts" to bot somewhere (ie. points market, jail, wherever) and I say rumours because most of the time (I know, mugging don't tell me!) they are completely unfounded. Then everyone gets their undies in a knot demanding scripts be banned.
On rumours and speculation.
Thank goodness staff don't fed people over rumours eh? (I was busting 200-300 people a day at my peak and did not bot on the jail. According to you guys I should be banned lol).
@Chedburn:Can we please have a torch item to facilitate these witch hunters? Maybe a nice farmer's pitchfork to boot?
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