Thread created on Thu Jan 17, 2013 05:26:49 Last replied to on Tue Feb 26, 2013 04:42:08
This relates to the recent cashier check changes and places them in the bigger picture of what Ched and staff do in the best interests of the game.
One Torn law or golden rule that you can count on is whenever you find a cutting edge strategy that allows you to gain money or stats at a great rate, or in some cases if it lets you cause an inordinate amount of pain to your victim, it will be neutralized. It might suck at the time that it happens, but from my experience it is in the best long term interests of the game. In most cases, once the Torn population at large catches on to the cutting edge strategy, it becomes something that everyone has to do to compete, and it spirals out of control, throws game balance out of whack, and/or injects too much money into the economy.
Examples of strategies that were nerfed:
-Stock market (2 or 3 times) allowing people to exponentially increase billions to trillions of $$
-Self-busting
-Unlimited use of SEs and FHCs/cans
-Max bookie bet cap (not exactly on point in terms of it being a strategy, but still relevant)
-Slut factions
-No more chains of thousands of hits that kept noob factions (like my Vulpes lol) seeing white nonstop for days
-Now, of course, cashier's checks in part because people were suspected of using scripts to make too much $$ from mugging
The game will always be changing. Many people have mentioned how noobs nowadays have PIs within weeks whereas us old folks saved up for years to get ours. But it is a good thing that Ched stays on top of these things, even if it can be frusturating in the short term. I used to play another text-based game back in the day, and it went from 5,000+ paying monthly subscribers to a ghost town of a couple hundred, and the biggest culprits were the two related problems that management did not crack down on scripting (which conferred an even greatere advantage in that game), and they allowed the currency to become completely debased. It got to where you could only keep up and buy nice things if you scripted or played absolutely massive amounts of time, and it just became pointless. It became work, not fun. I don't think such a fate will befall this game anytime in the near future. Agree or disagree with him, you can tell that Ched cares about the long-term health of this game and takes steps to protect it.
Do you want specials of free strength, free energy, and pay of up to $125,000 daily??? join my five-star furniture shop! My company is huge and has room for 63 employees, and it will be one of the first to ten stars! Check my profile for more detail
I don't recall complaining about the majority of these changes as most were needed. Though a few of them were questioned because of small portions of the updates. For example why DVDs had such large cooldowns, this was later some what fixed. Most of those the vast majority of serious players would agree nearly were all required. I personally do not feel cashier's checks applied to stock transactions was a necessary change as mugging people that sold stock wasn't a problem that needed a blanket and bottle fix.
Hiring for my company 50k int=600k. Druggies are welcome if active. Paying 350k for stalemates, I will unload weapons so anyone can do it.
Great points made. Tho I admit something had to be done about the people scripting. Even tho ched doesn't want to admit it, people somehow CAN see when you suddenly gain money from certain sources. And they do take advantage of it.
This is all a step in the right direction as far as that is concerned.
By Ohadik [424017]
Great points made. Tho I admit something had to be done about the people scripting. Even tho ched doesn't want to admit it, people somehow CAN see when you suddenly gain money from certain sources. And they do take advantage of it.
This is all a step in the right direction as far as that is concerned.
But the rest of the Torn community has to pay for the cheating abusing alleged scripters?
So what other fun parts of Torn will be changed to deter these people?
Before long there will be no real fun left here. We will all end up training and logging off, its crazy.
By Ohadik [424017]
Great points made. Tho I admit something had to be done about the people scripting. Even tho ched doesn't want to admit it, people somehow CAN see when you suddenly gain money from certain sources. And they do take advantage of it.
This is all a step in the right direction as far as that is concerned.
That's because of a bug, not because of a script. And they are doing something about it, do you think it's just a coincidence that the stat graph isn't working right now?
Its a hard balance to find... I do think some fun element as been taken of, but at the same time this guys with scripts are making money at a superior rate than anyone everyone else.
This thread highlights some very good point though.... Rated ++++
I don't think any of these changes make the slightest difference for the 'average' player. If it stops just a few people taking advantage then I am all for it.
When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, and the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains, an' go to your Gawd like a soldier. Soldier of the Queen!
By Ohadik [424017]
Great points made. Tho I admit something had to be done about the people scripting. Even tho ched doesn't want to admit it, people somehow CAN see when you suddenly gain money from certain sources. And they do take advantage of it.
This is all a step in the right direction as far as that is concerned.
this is not how bugs are fixed and doesnt have anything to do with scripts, if there were scripts they would fix the leak, not make a feature.
R U avin a giggle ther m8? ill bash ye fookin ead in i sware on me mum.
i also played another text based game , played it for over 6 years , but it went from 100s playing every round to jusst a select few of us.
the reason for this was because the admins basically refused point blank to make any changes to the game whatsoever so as the months/years went past people found the exploits and exploited them . made it work to play the game instead of fun so people left in there 100s4
at least in torn there not scared to change things drastically and also willing to change it back if needed or tweak them . i commend what they do here
By atentat [1583407]
i think this is what makes this game great. it keeps changing and you need to come up with new schemes and ideas how and what to abuse next.
the most adaptable will prevail
Actually no. When it gets to the point that Torn isn't fun no more. People will just find another game to play. You shouldn't have to work a lot to get a slight bit of fun.
Besides, I among others are here because of the community, not the game itself. So when friends who play Torn for the game leave because of these "improvements", others will follow. From there, it will be the snowball effect. I can name quiet a bit of games which kept going in this direction and now they are ghost towns.
Last Edited: Thu Jan 17, 2013 13:55:18
"Savior of the broken, the beaten and the damned"
[flash=150x450]http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/125/e/a/catastrophic_prophets_member_by_hades_animations-d646v1h.swf[/flash]
In games like this, players will always seek to find semi-legal loopholes, exploits and other ways to get ahead of the pack, so it's a constant fight for the admins/devs to identify these, and then close them, make them illegal or create methods to make them no longer viable, like for example with the self-busting.
Generally, I think they get the balance right, though they could have done with being a bit quicker on the uptake with things like the cash-farm stock market and self-busting, for example.
By atentat [1583407]
i think this is what makes this game great. it keeps changing and you need to come up with new schemes and ideas how and what to abuse next.
the most adaptable will prevail
Actually no. When it gets to the point that Torn isn't fun no more. People will just find another game to play. You shouldn't have to work a lot to get a slight bit of fun.
Besides, I among others are here because of the community, not the game itself. So when friends who play Torn for the game leave because of these "improvements", others will follow. From there, it will be the snowball effect. I can name quiet a bit of games which kept going in this direction and now they are ghost towns.
I don't agree with your opinion but I do understand where you are coming from.
What would you suggest exactly?
When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, and the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains, an' go to your Gawd like a soldier. Soldier of the Queen!
Basic economics and common sense says to diversify your investments, be they money or time. It seems to be that too many people trap themselves into one method of making money (or just playing in general). Once an update comes out that changes anything involved with that method, the entire dynamic is changed. Of course, Torn can't simply stop making updates- the game would begin to die. It's also near impossible to update anything without changing some of the dynamics for part (or most of the population). The simple solution is to either A) Adapt to new methods as soon as the old ones become obselete or B) Hedge your bets by spending your time doing multiple things. Even if you focus on one, you have other methods to fall back on.
For example, the recent update panicked a lot of people who spend their time (and make their money) mugging auction sellers. Quite a few seem to have freaked out entirely. Although I understand their frustration (the old auction house was my primary way of making money), I can't help but feel like many of them simply didn't have a backup plan. By all means be upset, but you shouldn't find yourself put out of business that easily. That defies common sense, especially in an online game.
"I have resolved never to enter an unjust war, but never to end a just one except by defeating my enemies"-Charles XII of Sweden
Now that nobody can be mugged for 24 hours after stocks sell, the top 10% of richest players will become soooo much richer now they can play the stockmarket with pretty much no chance of getting mugged.
By Tezwar [1034523]
Do you know what the irony of all this is?
Now that nobody can be mugged for 24 hours after stocks sell, the top 10% of richest players will become soooo much richer now they can play the stockmarket with pretty much no chance of getting mugged.
Well thats not good for the economy is it?
top 10% use SED or travel. they dont just stop trading because of mugs.
Also, this is now maybe even better for muggers?
If you see a known stock trader not logged in for 24h, you can try your luck.
Now that NPC doesnt even buy shares at all, guessing when to mug somene for shares is hard.
R U avin a giggle ther m8? ill bash ye fookin ead in i sware on me mum.
By Tezwar [1034523]
Do you know what the irony of all this is?
Now that nobody can be mugged for 24 hours after stocks sell, the top 10% of richest players will become soooo much richer now they can play the stockmarket with pretty much no chance of getting mugged.
Well thats not good for the economy is it?
top 10% use SED or travel. they dont just stop trading because of mugs.
Also, this is now maybe even better for muggers?
If you see a known stock trader not logged in for 24h, you can try your luck.
Now that NPC doesnt even buy shares at all, guessing when to mug somene for shares is hard.
I think you got lost in my post somewhere.
My point was now that the top 10% of richest players can use the stockmarket a lot more than before knowing that they cannot be mugged for at least 24 hours after the NPC buys them back.
Before the checks I know people who were put off from buying and selling stocks for fear of being mugged.
Now that constraint is not there, the profits gained from the stockmarket are going to make the rich richer.
It can NEVER be better for muggers, only worse, not that that was the point of my post it was about the economy.
Please read my post properly next time before quoting me.
By Tezwar [1034523]
Do you know what the irony of all this is?
Now that nobody can be mugged for 24 hours after stocks sell, the top 10% of richest players will become soooo much richer now they can play the stockmarket with pretty much no chance of getting mugged.
Well thats not good for the economy is it?
top 10% use SED or travel. they dont just stop trading because of mugs.
Also, this is now maybe even better for muggers?
If you see a known stock trader not logged in for 24h, you can try your luck.
Now that NPC doesnt even buy shares at all, guessing when to mug somene for shares is hard.
I think you got lost in my post somewhere.
My point was now that the top 10% of richest players can use the stockmarket a lot more than before knowing that they cannot be mugged for at least 24 hours after the NPC buys them back.
Before the checks I know people who were put off from buying and selling stocks for fear of being mugged.
Now that constraint is not there, the profits gained from the stockmarket are going to make the rich richer.
It can NEVER be better for muggers, only worse, not that that was the point of my post it was about the economy.
Please read my post properly next time before quoting me.
well i guess trading stock will be encouraged by this. but mugging people in hope they just sold stock is pretty desperate anyway isnt it? not that i know about advanced mugging techniques...
R U avin a giggle ther m8? ill bash ye fookin ead in i sware on me mum.
By Tezwar [1034523]
Do you know what the irony of all this is?
Now that nobody can be mugged for 24 hours after stocks sell, the top 10% of richest players will become soooo much richer now they can play the stockmarket with pretty much no chance of getting mugged.
Well thats not good for the economy is it?
top 10% use SED or travel. they dont just stop trading because of mugs.
Also, this is now maybe even better for muggers?
If you see a known stock trader not logged in for 24h, you can try your luck.
Now that NPC doesnt even buy shares at all, guessing when to mug somene for shares is hard.
I think you got lost in my post somewhere.
My point was now that the top 10% of richest players can use the stockmarket a lot more than before knowing that they cannot be mugged for at least 24 hours after the NPC buys them back.
Before the checks I know people who were put off from buying and selling stocks for fear of being mugged.
Now that constraint is not there, the profits gained from the stockmarket are going to make the rich richer.
It can NEVER be better for muggers, only worse, not that that was the point of my post it was about the economy.
Please read my post properly next time before quoting me.
I don't see how people can make so much money from the stock market.
If you claim is true that the stock market can inject a lot of money into the economy (by some rich people playing it), then mugging protection won't help the economy because the money is just distributed that way, but not removed from the economy.
By Tezwar [1034523]
Do you know what the irony of all this is?
Now that nobody can be mugged for 24 hours after stocks sell, the top 10% of richest players will become soooo much richer now they can play the stockmarket with pretty much no chance of getting mugged.
Well thats not good for the economy is it?
top 10% use SED or travel. they dont just stop trading because of mugs.
Also, this is now maybe even better for muggers?
If you see a known stock trader not logged in for 24h, you can try your luck.
Now that NPC doesnt even buy shares at all, guessing when to mug somene for shares is hard.
I think you got lost in my post somewhere.
My point was now that the top 10% of richest players can use the stockmarket a lot more than before knowing that they cannot be mugged for at least 24 hours after the NPC buys them back.
Before the checks I know people who were put off from buying and selling stocks for fear of being mugged.
Now that constraint is not there, the profits gained from the stockmarket are going to make the rich richer.
It can NEVER be better for muggers, only worse, not that that was the point of my post it was about the economy.
Please read my post properly next time before quoting me.
I don't see how people can make so much money from the stock market.
If you claim is true that the stock market can inject a lot of money into the economy (by some rich people playing it), then mugging protection won't help the economy because the money is just distributed that way, but not removed from the economy.
afaik stocks inject like 99% of the cash in torn. everything else combined is just peanuts.
R U avin a giggle ther m8? ill bash ye fookin ead in i sware on me mum.
By Tezwar [1034523]
Do you know what the irony of all this is?
Now that nobody can be mugged for 24 hours after stocks sell, the top 10% of richest players will become soooo much richer now they can play the stockmarket with pretty much no chance of getting mugged.
Well thats not good for the economy is it?
top 10% use SED or travel. they dont just stop trading because of mugs.
Also, this is now maybe even better for muggers?
If you see a known stock trader not logged in for 24h, you can try your luck.
Now that NPC doesnt even buy shares at all, guessing when to mug somene for shares is hard.
I think you got lost in my post somewhere.
My point was now that the top 10% of richest players can use the stockmarket a lot more than before knowing that they cannot be mugged for at least 24 hours after the NPC buys them back.
Before the checks I know people who were put off from buying and selling stocks for fear of being mugged.
Now that constraint is not there, the profits gained from the stockmarket are going to make the rich richer.
It can NEVER be better for muggers, only worse, not that that was the point of my post it was about the economy.
Please read my post properly next time before quoting me.
I don't see how people can make so much money from the stock market.
If you claim is true that the stock market can inject a lot of money into the economy (by some rich people playing it), then mugging protection won't help the economy because the money is just distributed that way, but not removed from the economy.
Im pretty sure Ched has said that the stockmarket injects about 70 Bill into the economy every month.
With the knowledge that big buyers are now safeguarded after NPC sales, surely this will now increase significantly.
By Vernunzio [730674]
This relates to the recent cashier check changes and places them in the bigger picture of what Ched and staff do in the best interests of the game.
One Torn law or golden rule that you can count on is whenever you find a cutting edge strategy that allows you to gain money or stats at a great rate, or in some cases if it lets you cause an inordinate amount of pain to your victim, it will be neutralized. It might suck at the time that it happens, but from my experience it is in the best long term interests of the game. In most cases, once the Torn population at large catches on to the cutting edge strategy, it becomes something that everyone has to do to compete, and it spirals out of control, throws game balance out of whack, and/or injects too much money into the economy.
Examples of strategies that were nerfed:
-Stock market (2 or 3 times) allowing people to exponentially increase billions to trillions of $$
-Self-busting
-Unlimited use of SEs and FHCs/cans
-Max bookie bet cap (not exactly on point in terms of it being a strategy, but still relevant)
-Slut factions
-No more chains of thousands of hits that kept noob factions (like my Vulpes lol) seeing white nonstop for days
-Now, of course, cashier's checks in part because people were suspected of using scripts to make too much $$ from mugging
The game will always be changing. Many people have mentioned how noobs nowadays have PIs within weeks whereas us old folks saved up for years to get ours. But it is a good thing that Ched stays on top of these things, even if it can be frusturating in the short term. I used to play another text-based game back in the day, and it went from 5,000+ paying monthly subscribers to a ghost town of a couple hundred, and the biggest culprits were the two related problems that management did not crack down on scripting (which conferred an even greatere advantage in that game), and they allowed the currency to become completely debased. It got to where you could only keep up and buy nice things if you scripted or played absolutely massive amounts of time, and it just became pointless. It became work, not fun. I don't think such a fate will befall this game anytime in the near future. Agree or disagree with him, you can tell that Ched cares about the long-term health of this game and takes steps to protect it.
This has to be one of the most direct clear descriptions of what is happening to this game, time to take notice and stop making changes to those things the players love most about this game, as the edge each of us finds to be successful is razor thin and the changes keep dampening the games passion,especially in faction wars and one on one battles.
:*
Last Edited: Sat Jan 19, 2013 01:49:44
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