| Forum Main>>General Discussion>> Same IP found message... getting a bit tired of it |
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DD-
ID: 1006827
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Posted on Tue Nov 13, 2012 17:53:48
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If anyone wanted to play from 2 accounts then they could. The block stops people from trading between two or more accounts but if someone wanted to they could get around it. Its annoying being blocked from some people because I go on torn on my phone sometimes.
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-Qlimax-
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Posted on Tue Nov 13, 2012 18:10:27
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By sin [771805]
he's right tho. if torn's IP system is setup to help in the prevention of multis, than the system is crap, buggy, an out of date.
torn has failed in this area for years, an it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that.
and yes, locking phone to account can be done like i've said many times before, but that poses to be to sophisticated for torn right now.
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Impossible, on a mobile network such as 3G you aren't given a static IP address so it is impossible to distinguish between phones and where they are.
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Glueshooter
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Posted on Tue Nov 13, 2012 20:43:32
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I'm slightly concerned with the statement that it's worked for 8 years and that's the sway it's going to stay.
This is computerland. It changes.
My kids both want to play.
I have to tell them that it's tough.
That's 2 yearly subscriptions lost.
Never mind. It worked in 2004, so it's ok now.
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Passie
ID: 936578
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Posted on Tue Nov 13, 2012 21:55:52
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By Glueshooter [435835]
I'm slightly concerned with the statement that it's worked for 8 years and that's the sway it's going to stay.
This is computerland. It changes.
My kids both want to play.
I have to tell them that it's tough.
That's 2 yearly subscriptions lost.
Never mind. It worked in 2004, so it's ok now. |
People are not allowed to make multiple accounts.
Accounts on the same IP are not allowed to interact.
Nobody stated that people on the same IP aren't allowed to play.
If your kids wanted to play, they can.
If they are on the same IP, you can't interact with them.
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Pluto
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Posted on Tue Nov 13, 2012 22:06:33
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By Passie_ [936578]
By Glueshooter [435835]
I'm slightly concerned with the statement that it's worked for 8 years and that's the sway it's going to stay.
This is computerland. It changes.
My kids both want to play.
I have to tell them that it's tough.
That's 2 yearly subscriptions lost.
Never mind. It worked in 2004, so it's ok now. |
People are not allowed to make multiple accounts.
Accounts on the same IP are not allowed to interact.
Nobody stated that people on the same IP aren't allowed to play.
If your kids wanted to play, they can.
If they are on the same IP, you can't interact with them.
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And if my kids wanted to play I am pretty sure they would want to attack me, send me stuff and interact.
Glueshooter has a more pertinent, valid question posed there that does not deserve a 'they cannot interact', standard reply.
Basically, in this day and age, the kids are savvy and computer literate. Is there no viable option to stop multi's yet let families play?
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Glueshooter
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Posted on Tue Nov 13, 2012 22:09:28
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Fair point. I never realised that.
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KnowYourPlace
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Posted on Wed Nov 14, 2012 13:06:17
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I have a problem here. A month ago I've gave my friend FHC BB to hold, no same IP found.
But now, we cant set trade to each other because we got same IP. I feel I've been scammed by system lol funny
Dont know when I will get all my FHC's from him or NEVER?????? pathetic
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Oxside
ID: 202437
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Posted on Wed Nov 14, 2012 13:21:27
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I Don't understand why some are defending this system.
There must be other methods other than a standard IP block from someone who lives 200 miles away from me.
Yes you can say the chances are slim, but that's not the point dip shits.
For once ched, this is broken and needs fixing. and those defending this shite should be publicly hung then shot.
I hope they bury you facing down, and I hope you burn in hell.
Last Edited: Wed Nov 14, 2012 13:23:34
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Oxside the Universal Gynecologist |
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veee
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Posted on Wed Nov 14, 2012 14:39:26
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http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/205128/MichWhambulance2_medium.jpg
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DD-
ID: 1006827
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Posted on Wed Nov 14, 2012 18:14:44
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By Pluto [541636]
By Passie_ [936578]
By Glueshooter [435835]
I'm slightly concerned with the statement that it's worked for 8 years and that's the sway it's going to stay.
This is computerland. It changes.
My kids both want to play.
I have to tell them that it's tough.
That's 2 yearly subscriptions lost.
Never mind. It worked in 2004, so it's ok now. |
People are not allowed to make multiple accounts.
Accounts on the same IP are not allowed to interact.
Nobody stated that people on the same IP aren't allowed to play.
If your kids wanted to play, they can.
If they are on the same IP, you can't interact with them.
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And if my kids wanted to play I am pretty sure they would want to attack me, send me stuff and interact.
Glueshooter has a more pertinent, valid question posed there that does not deserve a 'they cannot interact', standard reply.
Basically, in this day and age, the kids are savvy and computer literate. Is there no viable option to stop multi's yet let families play? |
I agree with this. I would like my Brother to be able to play the game but I don't want to have the block message with him. He might spend money on the game. If we couldn't attack each other in game then I think that would make it more boring. I don't understand why torn is so against it. I think its one of those things. Most if not all of the text based games I have played in the past have had the same block so other games just do what other games are doing. Like I have said in another post. The people who cheat a lot and make a lot of money from cheating know how to get around it.
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Mr_Capitalist
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Posted on Wed Nov 14, 2012 20:59:14
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Mac blocks would probably be more effective as you cant really share macsat least to my knowledge .
Last Edited: Wed Nov 14, 2012 21:41:06
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Venko
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Posted on Thu Nov 15, 2012 01:18:11
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I had issues with not being able to send money or items to a rl friend who started playing. We lived about 10-15km apart but had same ISP, I'm not sure if it is the reason our IPs were too similar or not but meh.
After my friend left the game, I didn't have anymore issues with same IP until 2 weeks ago. I was buying some box of med supplies randomly and fell on a guy that had an IP that was too similar to mine. Instead of being pissed off/annoyed, I was quite thrilled: I thought that I might of finally found someone in RL that plays torn. So I sent the guy a message trying to inquire about his whereabouts, but I think he might of gotten the wrong idea and freaked out lol _
**edit**
While the same IP thingy is an annoyance some of the time, I am grateful that the staff is at least trying to keep things fair by making it harder for multies to interact. Sure, they can still bypass the system, but it still makes it harder than without the same IP restriction. I'm sure that, as time passes, there will be more methods that will help prevent multies gaining an unfair advantage over regular players.
I was quite happy to see many players banned for multi accounts during the WW competition. I just wish that the punishments were more severe than a couple days of being banned. Maybe it would be interesting if all of the player's multi and main accounts are completely wiped clean(items/stocks/proprieties/companies/factions/stats), and maybe have them branded with 'CHEATER' or 'MULTI' next to their name, but it could be that I'm just too strict.
P.S.
You can never please everyone. No matter what, someone will complain.
Last Edited: Thu Nov 15, 2012 01:25:21
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Biggles266
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Posted on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:49:47
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By Mr_Capitalist [1422486]
Mac blocks would probably be more effective as you cant really share macsat least to my knowledge . |
Do you mean that people on the same MAC address wouldn't be able to interact, but people on the same IP would? Not really workable since MAC addresses can easily be spoofed on a computer. Also, once you have multiple devices behind a router, you could all be separate people on separate devices, but Torn would see the IP and MAC address of your router because of NAT (Network Address Translation).
NAT is also why some people get IP blocks with friends hundreds of miles away but on the same ISP - because your IP address isn't what Torn's servers are seeing, but rather an IP address of your ISP. Likewise, I could run a dozen virtual machines on this computer that all have different MAC addresses, but all use the same IP address. How can you tell the difference?
Bottom line is that you either have a system that is MUCH easier to abuse and no false positives, or a few false positives and a harder to abuse system. It's not perfect but there are limitations that just can't be overcome.
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HavokGDI
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Posted on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:12:47
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Stop using the Opera browser.
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XOR
ID: 743049
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Posted on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:49:35
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So lets look at the issue:
You want the IP Block to be re-configured to be more "open".
Lets look at the consequences.
Disable known IPs to suffer IP Block
Something like Opera for mobile phones.
Now, lets watch as everyone who has multi's transitions to Opera for that extra "freedom".
Yes, it stops genuine users being flagged, but opens the doors for multi's.
Re-configure it so that "one-off" IPs are not included
Great for home users who use the same IP all the time, and occasionally log in from mobile.
Multis that change IP every time they log in would have all their IPs logged as "one-off", and so would all be able to interact.
Block same MAC addresses (It was suggested)
MAC addresses are easier to spoof than you think.
5-10 minutes of google, for a complete novice to computers, and they can spoof it.
Same IP may be household members
Yes, this may be the case.
But, from just IP alone... can you identify 1 person with 3-5 devices and 3-5 multi-accounts, compared to a family of 3-5 people each using their own machine?
The system is a BARRIER.
It restricts multi's interacting with their main account.
Attempting to bypass these restrictions results in fed jail.
genuine players are False Positives
False Negative = Classed as real player, is actually a multi.
False Positive = Classed as multi, is actually a real player.
In all automated system detections, a false positive are better than false negatives.
Change the system to be more dynamic and not just rely on IP
That's where staff come in. They make the choices.
Also, with enough lag already, you want to make torn LAGGIER? (STFU: It's a word now!)
Hope that summarizes everything.
TL;DR - STFU Complaining.
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Ched, Hire me as a developer. Peek my profile!
God watches you have a poo. Serious. _ |
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joeykickdoors
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Posted on Thu Nov 15, 2012 20:05:43
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By reptophile [1558328]
OK, I use my phone & my phone has the same internet IP as hundreds of other players.
Fed up with not being able to buy from, revive, trade with, attack, bust, etc.
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This is why I only play from my mobile when it's connected to my home's wifi. I've used it a few times when I absolutely had to while out but luckily it hasn't caused any problems.
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stfu, kthnxbai. |
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reptophile
ID: 1558328
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Posted on Fri Nov 16, 2012 20:17:30
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By XOR [743049]
So lets look at the issue:
You want the IP Block to be re-configured to be more "open".
Lets look at the consequences.
Disable known IPs to suffer IP Block
Something like Opera for mobile phones.
Now, lets watch as everyone who has multi's transitions to Opera for that extra "freedom".
Yes, it stops genuine users being flagged, but opens the doors for multi's.
Re-configure it so that "one-off" IPs are not included
Great for home users who use the same IP all the time, and occasionally log in from mobile.
Multis that change IP every time they log in would have all their IPs logged as "one-off", and so would all be able to interact.
Block same MAC addresses (It was suggested)
MAC addresses are easier to spoof than you think.
5-10 minutes of google, for a complete novice to computers, and they can spoof it.
Same IP may be household members
Yes, this may be the case.
But, from just IP alone... can you identify 1 person with 3-5 devices and 3-5 multi-accounts, compared to a family of 3-5 people each using their own machine?
The system is a BARRIER.
It restricts multi's interacting with their main account.
Attempting to bypass these restrictions results in fed jail.
genuine players are False Positives
False Negative = Classed as real player, is actually a multi.
False Positive = Classed as multi, is actually a real player.
In all automated system detections, a false positive are better than false negatives.
Change the system to be more dynamic and not just rely on IP
That's where staff come in. They make the choices.
Also, with enough lag already, you want to make torn LAGGIER? (STFU: It's a word now!)
Hope that summarizes everything.
TL;DR - STFU Complaining. |
Not really asking it to be more 'open', but an acknowledgement of the common shared ips (such as mobile networks) would be nice.
Consider this: a player for 90% of their time uses a few completely separate IPs, the other 10% they use an IP that is shared by a lot of other players in their country (mobile network).
A player with a similar usage profile (with 90% different IPs) should be able to interact. A player who *only* plays on the mobile network should not, as there would be no way to tell if they are a multi or not.
Regarding 'TL;DR - STFU Complaining' I think a lot of players would like the system improved, & TORN playing isn't mandatory, you might get some satisfaction from saying 'bugger off then', but you'd lose out if there were no more new players coming in to a rusty old game from the last decade.
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Gogs247
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Posted on Fri Nov 16, 2012 21:57:49
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My RL wife and I both play the game - obviously we use the same IP but we never interact in the game
I don't mind about our IP block - She gets enough of my RL money, no way do I want her to get my hard earned Torn $ as well
Last Edited: Fri Nov 16, 2012 21:58:39
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Moustache
ID: 1649810
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Posted on Tue Apr 23, 2013 20:21:14
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I don't get it? if everyone say useing mobiles on a 02 network all have the same ip doesn't this allow people to use multi accounts via mobile phones due to the inability to tell if its the same person or not, so they don't get banned on a mobile...
How would you catch someone using multi accounts on a mobile?
Is this a flaw in the system or can you tell if its the same player on mobile? (This is if the accounts only ever get used on phones)
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dunmugmeh
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Posted on Tue Apr 23, 2013 20:36:07
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By HavokGDI [133687]
Stop using the Opera browser. |
Yes i only started getting these problems after i put opera mini on my phone
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WaterFreak
ID: 62794
Level: 67
Posts: 1884
Score: 789
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Posted on Tue Apr 23, 2013 20:37:46
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so, because you use your mobile phone on a lame network, the Admins should remove the IP block for that network?
and in doing so, let anyone create gobs of multiple accounts on that network?
yeah, that is a genius answer to a minimalistic problem
I have been playing the game for 8 years, use my phone all the time, have seen this message twice in 8 years. I did not go running to the forums to cry about it.
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Moustache
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Posted on Tue Apr 23, 2013 20:47:30
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If two people use the same iPad or phone (on a sim network) to play, but never interact with each other will they both get banned or not?
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ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ
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Noah_Bennet
ID: 1635234
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Posted on Tue Apr 23, 2013 20:59:44
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By Gogs247 [1531870]
My RL wife and I both play the game - obviously we use the same IP but we never interact in the game
I don't mind about our IP block - She gets enough of my RL money, no way do I want her to get my hard earned Torn $ as well |
I got mine to play about 100 days after I had started. Wanted to be able to assist them, but couldnt. Got another friend to play around that time as well, but they live on the other side of the country so I was able to help them.
Where it is annoying its not been so bad. Rather than me giving my spouse items or cash, they just sold a bunch of DPs to catch up.
The part that we are not looking forward to is owning a PI and not being able to split the upkeep.
The second thing that sucks is when their laptop had broke earlier this month they couldnt log on. I offered to let them use my laptop but they didnt want to risk any sort of IP punishment thing. Not really sure what the consequences would have been there, if any. I think the IP policy is a bit confusing tbh.
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Penicillin
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Posted on Tue Apr 23, 2013 21:06:24
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Overall I think it is a minor inconvenience, but I will share this experience: I recently have had IP blocks on two complete strangers. We got to talking and they both live in the same state as me but in different cities and use AT&T Wireless. I had recently driven through those areas and I guess I must have crossed the same cell tower that they use? So, theoretically, if I took a road trip from Florida to Maine, I would not be able to interact with any player on the eastern seaboard of the US who uses AT&T. Presumably, this block doesn't last forever? Anyway, I'm really not trying to bitch about it but it does seem like a rather blunt tool.
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Run-Riot
ID: 1713552
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Score: 51
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Posted on Tue Apr 23, 2013 22:39:08
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I think the fact families can't interact is quite a considerable downside. Although I can't think of a way to allow them to without risking alot more multi accounting. In an ideal world there would be enough staff to investigate on a case by case basis and make a judgement with regards to actions etc. But ofcourse, in reality this isn't feasible.
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MrClandestine
ID: 420229
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Posted on Tue Apr 23, 2013 23:41:11
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yup,
posted earlier about torn spouse, old school friend came and lived with me, got IP blocked.
has since moved back to London, I checked every couple of months, trying to send him a dollar, finaly went through, probably about 6 months after he got back to his 'home' London network.
(for any doubters there are countless hours of inane chat about nothing between the two of us from separate IP's, and all cash transfers were going the wrong way)
In this instance it was really annoying, we played completely different games, we were the only 2 people in a faction, money could be exchanged through the faction, not that we did, I already pick up the rent on our PI, that's enough out of me...
But it is a bit silly, I was waiting for the 'same IP' block to hit us, we were living in the same building using the same wireless network, but it can be beaten so easily by being in the same faction, had anyone checked, they would have seen that the only ever 'transfer' of cash was from me (the older player) to him (younger player), and these were always balanced out after a few weeks.
It was obvious that we were not multi's, because there were so many pointless conversations between the two of us, quoting old movies and other such assorted rubbish, and had anyone checked, after he moved out we were on completely different IP's,
I don't know much about the inner workings of the internet, but it does seem odd to me that such a serious system can be bypassed so easily, during our time spent on the same IP address, I also came across many other 'IP blocks', since then can't recall coming across any...
No real point to this, except that I understand the need for such a system, but when there are clearly so many people getting around it, it does look silly to penalise those that are trying to bring new players to the game.
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HARDCORE456
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Posted on Wed Apr 24, 2013 02:22:32
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I have gotten this message a few times lately and after talking to them they are about 6 hours drive away from me.
go figure.
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GloriousBastard
ID: 1382344
Level: 42
Posts: 183
Score: 48
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Posted on Wed Apr 24, 2013 09:20:39
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The current system is far from perfect it ipv4 but will work like a charm with ipv6. Now, it only ipv6 would roll out (world wide) quicker than chess.
Last Edited: Wed Apr 24, 2013 09:21:32
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Julez
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Posted on Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:19:21
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I never get those. Must be your 'high quality' providers you folks got overseas...
Plus, dont use things like Opera with 'Turbo' on
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WaterFreak
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Posted on Wed Apr 24, 2013 13:39:52
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something someone ought to consider........
The IP block scheme was implemented long before mobile phones really became little mini-computers, as such the IP thing worked in 98% of the cases.
As mobile phone use has exploded, if Torn wants to keep up with technology, something better really needs to be developed, with the presumption being multi's are bad. Perhaps a database mining algorithm that looks at player interactions and correlates that with IP data?
So, a question becomes, why do we want to prevent multi's anymore???
We allow scamming, scripts and all kinds of other stuff, why not allow multi's? As easy as it is to get cash, the need for multiple accounts is really not as high. If you are that dedicated to playing, why not allow multiple accounts?
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