It's ridiculous for drug users to complain about this drug-free gym. We've had so much benefits that it's hilarious to scream that it's unfair for us. Well, it might still be unfair for them - they can't get the awards for the 50 xanax and ecstasy taken.
Besides that, kudos to Ched for letting them taking vicodin for chains. One issue that I couldn't swallow with the drug free route was being able to offer only half the amount of hits.
By Kanzu5665 [231334]
It's ridiculous for drug users to complain about this drug-free gym. We've had so much benefits that it's hilarious to scream that it's unfair for us. Well, it might still be unfair for them - they can't get the awards for the 50 xanax and ecstasy taken.
Besides that, kudos to Ched for letting them taking vicodin for chains. One issue that I couldn't swallow with the drug free route was being able to offer only half the amount of hits.
Wow! Not a whole 2 awards, heaven forbid. Getting rewarded for not trying...brilliant!
By Metamorphosis [19162]
Wow 2 special gyms for 0.05% of the TC population and no special gym for balanced stat players. Well done Ched
Like Cynic, Leuky, Spookie and the 3 other nondruggies need the help anyways.
Hiring for my company 50k int=600k. Druggies are welcome if active. Paying 350k for stalemates, I will unload weapons so anyone can do it.
It would have been nice for players to know ahead of time..that is if you had already started taking drugs to train before these new "drug-free" gyms became available you have no recourse.
I do like the fact that players now have a choice, to take drugs or to not take drugs...with an informed decision that will guide them into their future training choices.
Of course players have always had the choice to use ,or not to use, but in the past the decision was based on different issues than it is now..i.e. the new drug-free gyms.
On a side thought, Mr. Chedburn could have his programmers write code than enables past drug users to forfeit their gains attained from past drug use, say for the price of 500 points maybe...and then they could go on and still take advantage of the drug-free gyms. This would make it a bit more fair to players who might have elected to not use drugs had they known of the future creation of these drug-free gyms.
If you read how the wording of the drug free gym is stated it leaves open the possibility that you can take as many drugs as you want before activating the membership, just none after you have activated your 500 million dollar membership. this would also allow people to get the drug merits before they activated their membership
you're right, I didn't read the part about how he unlocked it. I still have a hard time believing that they would waste the time to code and implement a gym that 99% of the Torn population could never access.
I would be surprised if there wasn't some sort of trigger that unlocked it based on the last time a xanax/ecstasy was taken plus 0% drug addiction, or something like that. At least I hope
Yeah, I'm disappointed that the special gyms are forcing me to give up modestly balanced stats...4 or 5 months in Frontline Fitness has already skewed my stats towards str/spd.
Perhaps there should be a 10 dot gym unlocked by druggies with 2k+ xanax taken...you know, just to kick the drug-free guys in the nuts!
Got another 20 days to unlock George's and then I will try to balance out the stats a bit more again.
By Gorgonzola [1300528]
Screw me for being balanced.
I long for whores to pwn me because the battle system is screwed and the gym system supports it.
Yay the update!
Even if there is a balanced-stat gym it gets problematic. SE's are just not too viable for balanced-stat players. Balanced stats could be better until you reach the point where the whore can use SE's to keep getting monthly boosts roughly equivalent to xanax even though xanax rehab has passed 10 - 15m per xanax (and the balanced stat person has to start gaining significantly less)
By Gorgonzola [1300528]
Screw me for being balanced.
I long for whores to pwn me because the battle system is screwed and the gym system supports it.
Yay the update!
It isn't the gyms or the updates that screwed you, it was your choice. Everyone had the same choice and some chose different paths than others.
That appears to be very patronising. My choice was based on the available options. The available options changed, so your point is not based on the whole picture. It has suddenly become a whole lot more profitable to be a whore.
Am I supposed to guess what the updates are going to be? Even when the new gyms were implemented, no data was forthcoming until players advanced to those gyms.
So until all gyms were unlocked, very few would have the foreknowledge that there would not be a balanced gym or the affect of any gym along the way.
I unlocked Atlas this morning, took me 12 weeks. Though that was during the World War and Torn of the Dead events, so I possibly lost the equivalent to a couple weeks worth of energy from them
By Gorgonzola [1300528]
Screw me for being balanced.
I long for whores to pwn me because the battle system is screwed and the gym system supports it.
Yay the update!
It isn't the gyms or the updates that screwed you, it was your choice. Everyone had the same choice and some chose different paths than others.
That appears to be very patronising. My choice was based on the available options. The available options changed, so your point is not based on the whole picture. It has suddenly become a whole lot more profitable to be a whore.
Am I supposed to guess what the updates are going to be? Even when the new gyms were implemented, no data was forthcoming until players advanced to those gyms.
So until all gyms were unlocked, very few would have the foreknowledge that there would not be a balanced gym or the affect of any gym along the way.
No options have changed. You had 4 choices:
1) Drug free balanced
2) Drug free whored
3) Drugged balanced
4) Drugged whored
Nothing has changed, people just like to whine. You can get in one of the special gyms with def/dex or spd/strong being only 5.5% higher than the other. If all stats were capped, that would take you less than a week. No one knew what the gym updates would be, and most chose their path long before the updates were even thought about. I have a def/str/spd combo and I didn't get a special gym for those 3, I think ill make a thread about it -_-
By Gorgonzola [1300528]
Screw me for being balanced.
I long for whores to pwn me because the battle system is screwed and the gym system supports it.
Yay the update!
It isn't the gyms or the updates that screwed you, it was your choice. Everyone had the same choice and some chose different paths than others.
That appears to be very patronising. My choice was based on the available options. The available options changed, so your point is not based on the whole picture. It has suddenly become a whole lot more profitable to be a whore.
Am I supposed to guess what the updates are going to be? Even when the new gyms were implemented, no data was forthcoming until players advanced to those gyms.
So until all gyms were unlocked, very few would have the foreknowledge that there would not be a balanced gym or the affect of any gym along the way.
No options have changed. You had 4 choices:
1) Drug free balanced
2) Drug free whored
3) Drugged balanced
4) Drugged whored
Nothing has changed, people just like to whine. You can get in one of the special gyms with def/dex or spd/strong being only 5.5% higher than the other. If all stats were capped, that would take you less than a week. No one knew what the gym updates would be, and most chose their path long before the updates were even thought about. I have a def/str/spd combo and I didn't get a special gym for those 3, I think ill make a thread about it -_-
Nowhere have I 'whined'. Yet more patronisation.
The gym multiplier has changed. Stats being capped or not is fairly irrelevant when you're trying to imbalance your stats to be able to get a higher multiplier. A balanced player will be on the lower gym when you unbalance them, and on the lower gym for more than twice as long when you try and catch up and overtake with those you left behind just to get into the other combo gym.
A whored player will be getting the higher multiplier for longer (or even always with the right combination), in addition to the already advantageous exponential growth. It was against that exponential growth I measured my choice. That is no longer a valid measure. So it most definitely has changed regardless of your protestations.
By Gorgonzola [1300528]
Screw me for being balanced.
I long for whores to pwn me because the battle system is screwed and the gym system supports it.
Yay the update!
It isn't the gyms or the updates that screwed you, it was your choice. Everyone had the same choice and some chose different paths than others.
That appears to be very patronising. My choice was based on the available options. The available options changed, so your point is not based on the whole picture. It has suddenly become a whole lot more profitable to be a whore.
Am I supposed to guess what the updates are going to be? Even when the new gyms were implemented, no data was forthcoming until players advanced to those gyms.
So until all gyms were unlocked, very few would have the foreknowledge that there would not be a balanced gym or the affect of any gym along the way.
No options have changed. You had 4 choices:
1) Drug free balanced
2) Drug free whored
3) Drugged balanced
4) Drugged whored
Nothing has changed, people just like to whine. You can get in one of the special gyms with def/dex or spd/strong being only 5.5% higher than the other. If all stats were capped, that would take you less than a week. No one knew what the gym updates would be, and most chose their path long before the updates were even thought about. I have a def/str/spd combo and I didn't get a special gym for those 3, I think ill make a thread about it -_-
Nowhere have I 'whined'. Yet more patronisation.
The gym multiplier has changed. Stats being capped or not is fairly irrelevant when you're trying to imbalance your stats to be able to get a higher multiplier. A balanced player will be on the lower gym when you unbalance them, and on the lower gym for more than twice as long when you try and catch up and overtake with those you left behind just to get into the other combo gym.
A whored player will be getting the higher multiplier for longer (or even always with the right combination), in addition to the already advantageous exponential growth. It was against that exponential growth I measured my choice. That is no longer a valid measure. So it most definitely has changed regardless of your protestations.
There is no exponential growth after capping a stat. Do not mention exponential growth when discussion long-term gym options, because long-term...there is no exponential growth. Besides which...there you are bitching about exponential growth like the whore gets it and you don't. You CHOSE to ignore the high LINEAR growth of a capped stat (for 1 or 2 stats) and stay in the slow ABSOLUTE gain period of the "exponential" growth by quadrupling the at time (you reduced the exponent on *total* stat gains by a factor of 4..by choice). You mean a whore can gain 200m on main stat (we'll say strength) and you can only gain 50m on defense to counter that? Yeah, that's you're choice. The balanced stat player has the advantage vs grossly whored players anyway (200m str, negligible speed/dex/def vs 50m str/dex/def/spd...I think the balanced stat player has the advantage).
Let's suppose a whore trains only 2 stats, both capped. How much do they gain per month at 3x xanax per day....90m - 100m depending on Steadfast and how active they are. Balanced stats with all 4 stats capped: how much do they gain per month? Almost the same amount. The whore would gain 0.7 dots more for main stat, 0.3 dots more for their secondary stat..less if you stay partially balanced (55.555% vs 44.44444% for the other pair).
The problem with balanced stats is the same it has always been: Rehab will get too expensive before you reach a point where SE's are cheaper than even very high xanax (balanced stats will need to hit more like 25m - 30m rehab per xanax most likely unless you started with Hermetic 8+).
What do you want? 8 dots for all stats? Too much of a boost. 7.6 dots for all stats? Perhaps that's ok...still a bit high..7.5 dots for all stats? Ok fine...negligible difference compared to 7.3 dots in George's.
All this and it's based on YOUR choice to have low gains.
Also note, that if the whore ever decides to cap / catch-up neglected stats, the balanced stat player "catches up" in stat totals vs the whore.
For the sake of comparison, we'll assume 2 players that were balanced at 1m per stat for all 4 stats when one decided to whore (the sub 1m stat growth rate can be highly subject to wealth to afford happy boosters).
1m - 50m = 5 1/2 doubling cycles, with doubling at around 13-14 days with Medium / early Heavy gyms...ball park of 72 days. From 50m to 200m would take 54 - 60 days of heavy training..we'll say 58 (time would decrease for next 150m because of better gyms)...that is 130 days. +150m in 28 days works out to "only" 2.6m stats per day (a bit low, but reasonable for new players that will be unlocking gyms + finishing sports science edu's along the way)
Whore:200m, 1m, 1m, 1m
130 days / 13 days for a doubling cycle = 10 doubling cycles...for simplification, the 2 extra's will be "whored" for the balanced player, 2^3, or 8x multiplier for 2 stats, 2^2 or 4x for 2 stats
Balanced: 8m, 8m, 4m, 4m
So, on day 0 of whore's "catchup" for 3 off stats:
Whore: 200m, 1m, 1m, 1m = 203m total
Balanced: 8m, 8m, 4m, 4m = 24m total
Assume whore will whore 2nd stat to 50m, then 3rd, then 4th. 5.5 doubling cycles per 1m - 50m whores x 3 stats = 16.5 doubling cycles...round up to 17
Whore: 200m, 50m, 50m, 50m = 350m total after 17 doubling cycles (220'ish days)
Balanced:
8m, 8m, 8m, 8m with 15 cycles left after evening up stats, however, it only take about 2.5 cycles to cap a stat from 8m base, x4 stats = 10 cycles, leaving 5 leftover
Balanced: 50m, 50m, 50m, 50m with 5 cycles leftover. 5 cycles = about 65 days..16.25 days per stat x around 2.6m stats per day = 42.25m per stat in 16.25 days (same stats per day as above to be consistent)
So, we end with:
Whored: 200m, 50m, 50m, 50m = 350m total stats
Balanced: 92.25m,92.25m,92.25m,92.25m = 369m total stats
That is after almost a year of estimates, so 19m difference is trivial and they basically have the same amount of total stats IF the Whore ever decides to cap all 4 stats.
So, the whore only has a total stat advantage if they ignore at least 1 stat completely forever. If the balanced stat player allows str + spd OR def +dex to get to 55.5555% to get a 7.6 dot gym, the whore will not have appreciably more total stats.
Allowing balanced stat players access to a 7.6 all stat gym (or better) would allow balanced stat players to gain more stats per unit time than the whore (assuming the whore does not actually *completely* ignore 3rd and 4th stats and instead has to use George's). Also bear in mind that the single-stat whore gyms require 50E, so even the 8.0 dot whore gym may average out to 7.8 - 7.9'ish when you account for the need to bleed off 25E or 10E in lesser gyms at logout or while waiting to chain or to travel to rehab.
Summary: you're bitching about a minor difference. A whore that doesn't eventually cap all 4 stats will be very weak. A whore that has capped all 4 stats does not have much more total stats than a balanced player (they just get a bigger total earlier).
There is no exponential growth after capping a stat. Do not mention exponential growth when discussion long-term gym options, because long-term...there is no exponential growth. Besides which...there you are bitching about exponential growth like the whore gets it and you don't. You CHOSE to ignore the high LINEAR growth of a capped stat (for 1 or 2 stats) and stay in the slow ABSOLUTE gain period of the "exponential" growth by quadrupling the at time (you reduced the exponent on *total* stat gains by a factor of 4..by choice). You mean a whore can gain 200m on main stat (we'll say strength) and you can only gain 50m on defense to counter that? Yeah, that's you're choice. The balanced stat player has the advantage vs grossly whored players anyway (200m str, negligible speed/dex/def vs 50m str/dex/def/spd...I think the balanced stat player has the advantage).
Let's suppose a whore trains only 2 stats, both capped. How much do they gain per month at 3x xanax per day....90m - 100m depending on Steadfast and how active they are. Balanced stats with all 4 stats capped: how much do they gain per month? Almost the same amount. The whore would gain 0.7 dots more for main stat, 0.3 dots more for their secondary stat..less if you stay partially balanced (55.555% vs 44.44444% for the other pair).
The problem with balanced stats is the same it has always been: Rehab will get too expensive before you reach a point where SE's are cheaper than even very high xanax (balanced stats will need to hit more like 25m - 30m rehab per xanax most likely unless you started with Hermetic 8+).
What do you want? 8 dots for all stats? Too much of a boost. 7.6 dots for all stats? Perhaps that's ok...still a bit high..7.5 dots for all stats? Ok fine...negligible difference compared to 7.3 dots in George's.
All this and it's based on YOUR choice to have low gains.
I'm not sure what point you're making different to me. When I made my choice, exponential growth was exceptionally relevant. As Swag tried to compare the differences between the options now and the options when I made my choice. He stated there were no differences. This is not true.
I'm not asking for anything. I haven't asked for anything in this thread. Neither am I 'bitching' about anything. I am already well aware that a whore can gain stats much quicker which I already pointed out.
It does appear you have attributed things to my post which I haven't posted. I pointed out that whores can now gain stats even more quickly vs a balanced player. So while my choice originally would have left me trailing behind a certain percentage of whores, it is now becoming an even greater percentage.
You have some valid points about high stat players taking SE's. However I'm not in a position to consider those as worthwhile yet. I may 'whine' and 'bitch' about those another time.
I understand the reasoning behind the drug free gym, although don't necessarily agree with it. However, I'm yet to see a valid reason, or even an attempt at an explanation, for introducing more rewards for whoring stats.
EDIT: Re your second post. I'm still not bitching. Your discussion appears to be a whore who stops being a whore won't have a benefit. I don't believe I've compared non-whores to non-whores but I'm glad you did all that working out to come that conclusion.
"I pointed out that whores can now gain stats even more quickly vs a balanced player"
This is what is incorrect...eventually all the whores will train their other 2 or 3 stats. So the "even more quickly" is not true / relevant...it is no one's fault that you are choosing to have low stat gains in the short to medium term by being balanced. Also, the whore does not have a long-term advantage over you...just a short term advantage, and even then, they better not miss. Everyone theoretically will eventually go through the process of capping 3 or 4 stats. If they ignore 2 or 3 other stats longer, they will have a lot more total stats than you, but that imbalance weakens them. They will cap their other stats generally when they get tired of missing (for speed), get tired of losing to crits from weaker players (for defense), or get tired of taking small hits that add up from every newb they attack in a chain (dex and def).
This does not mean they have stopped being a whore. It just means they decided that gaining another 90m- 100m main stat in a month is not as good as getting another stat on track towards capping.
With the gym chains, yes, whores will gain stats "more quickly"...but stop telling yourself it is "even more quickly". If you're upset..you starting to whore will close the gap just about as well as a whore taking a break to cap their off stats.
By Belwilliam [79148]
"I pointed out that whores can now gain stats even more quickly vs a balanced player"
This is what is incorrect...eventually all the whores will train their other 2 or 3 stats.
I'm sure the point you were making was that I'm wrong. Your sentence structure could be misconstrued to say that it is incorrect that all whores will train their other stats. If we misconstrued it, then I'd probably agree with you.
However, this is becoming circular so I see no value in continuing. You obviously feel all players will eventually take the path to somewhat balancing their stats, I see evidence of the opposite but don't have a crystal ball. We disagree and my original throw away post wasn't supposed to side track this good thread in this way.
I must say that i find it very annoying that Frontline is closed now when my str+speed no longer are 55% of my total stats, im supposed to pay twice for the damn gym?
Once unlocked it stayed unlocked i thought.. but no.
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