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DarthBrogo

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Thread created on Wed Jun 26, 2013 18:44:12
Last replied to on Thu Jun 27, 2013 22:06:44
Let me begin by stating that I am not being sarcastic. I rejoiced when Obama won last year.
I still think he is the right choice. I shiver to think of President Romney who would have been likely to do something stupid like asttacking Russia (; with bombs ); in order to defeat Assad.

But appears that some people do not keep faith with Obama.

http:;//www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/06/wiretaps-and-drone-strikes-its-time-liberals-accept-obama-worse-bush

a few meta-quotes - quotes about quotes

In the US, the Huffington Post splashed on an image of Obama morphing into George W Bush, an image first used on the cover of the New Statesman in 2009. The president finds himself in Bush territory, said the Obama-supporting Washington Post. Here in the UK, the Guardians Americanophile-in-chief, Jonathan Freedland, labelled the president George W Obama.

How times change. In the field of counterterrorism and on the issue of executive power as a whole, Obama has distressingly begun to resemble George W Bush, I wrote in this magazine in October 2009 under the headline Barack W Bush. Ten months in to the presidents first term, Obamania was still in full flow and my piece was received in liberal circles with a mix of ridicule, scorn and outrage.

Claiming that Obama was nothing like his predecessor, Ken Gude, vice-president of the pro-Obama Centre for American Progress, mocked me for having unrealistic expectations of the US president. That has been the standard defence from Obama apologists in the past five years. Its not Baracks fault that his f**king retarded critics on the left (;to quote the former Obama chief of staff Rahm Emanuel);, who ought to be drugtested (;to quote the presidents former press spokesman Robert Gibbs);, hold him to unfairly high standards.


I think Americas President is making the right decisions.

-Jihadis must NOT be allowed to get out of jail. Terrorist scum do not merit options for survival nor do Outlaws merot a fair trial. Outlaws cannot derive rights from the law they have rejected.

-keeping ourselves safe from bombs takes precedence over protecting the right to hold unnoticed adulterous conversations. If you cannot do it in broad daylight, do not do it at all.

-weapons are methods for killing. There is no fundamental differenc between a bullet and a drone.

-the so-called Syrian Opposition is hagridden by Jihadis. The success of the 'Syrian' opposition would be most undesriable.

These (; intents to be more 'humane;' ); were unrealistic expectations. We should have assumed the worst. We should have predicted that Obama would not just continue where Bush left off but astonishingly and shamelessly go far beyond Dubbya in several respects.


Quite so. I certainly did expect that. How could it be otherwise?

The US president is cool, calm and mediasavvy. But presidents must be judged by their policies, not their personalities. And, seen from a liberal perspective, US national security policies arent pretty. Dont take my word for it. Just think about the verdict of the former Bush press spokesman Ari Fleischer, who gleefully wrote on Twitter after Snowdens NSA revelations:; Drone strikes. Wiretaps. Gitmo. [Obama] is carrying out Bushs 4th term.


Maybe the problem is not the President. Maybe the problem is the liberal perspective. I begin to believe that like their right-wing counterparts, the libertarians, the liberals commit the unacceptable errors of putting Self before Country, Rights before Duty, Ego before Nos.

Meanwhile, Barack Obama is faithfully executing his Office.

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Carrot

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Posted on Wed Jun 26, 2013 19:49:44
*whispers* Sub-section. Please, give life to the sub-sections. Your Obama thread shall give hope to the sub-sections.

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Scootaloo

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Posted on Wed Jun 26, 2013 21:03:55
By Carrot [276687]
*whispers* Sub-section. Please, give life to the sub-sections. Your Obama thread shall give hope to the sub-sections.


Yeah. This belongs in politics.

But I refuse to vote for any political party/candidate.

It's always choosing between two evils. Like choosing between crap and urine.

Until I get shown a politician that is nite full of crap, and is completely honest, I refuse to vote.

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CatHead

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Posted on Wed Jun 26, 2013 21:17:24
By Scootaloo [1590427]
By Carrot [276687]
*whispers* Sub-section. Please, give life to the sub-sections. Your Obama thread shall give hope to the sub-sections.


Yeah. This belongs in politics.

But I refuse to vote for any political party/candidate.

It';;s always choosing between two evils. Like choosing between crap and urine.

Until I get shown a politician that is nite full of crap, and is completely honest, I refuse to vote.


"Sorry folks, a lot of what we're saying in this, the lead up to the elections, is not feasible and we're just playing a huge balancing act between pleasing the people who vote for us and the people who are funding us. We're going to be saying a load of shit right now that will make you more inclined to vote for us and for people to give us more money but some of it just won't be true. At the end of the day, this fight, for me and my party, is for me and my party. Nothing matters as much to me as my looking like I'm winning this fight for power. A compromise must be made and it's you, the voters, who will be making it. You are choosing between a rock and a hard place and always will be. The world's not perfect and neither is this system that we've created."

Yeah, that would get my vote too.

Last Edited: Wed Jun 26, 2013 21:20:28
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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Wed Jun 26, 2013 21:43:13
Well, cathead, if you had been listening to Milliband [you will catch up when home ] it is exactly that.
There are no margins for alternatives.
Usually, any fool can see (;%;;[as with the budget ] that there are only very limited options.
The Books must be balanced or be juggled - no other options.


A Realist simply calculates that whoever wins has to play hardball in TWOT.

Either people can bear responsibility as citizens and choose unflinchingly between crap and urine.
Or people can be hipsters and refuse to choose, and thereby forsake their duty as Citizen - to
to bear every duty unflinchingly.

Hipsters - who on the purest personal principles refuse to pick sides - [ I am not talking about you, cathead ] are UNFIT to be treated as Citizens.

The basic choices are unaffected by personal preference or personal principle, but determined by objective conditions.

Be a Fundi
https:;%;;%;;//de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundi
Or be a Realo
https:;%;;%;;//de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realo

But above all - stand up and be counted, or sit down and be silent forever.



Last Edited: Wed Jun 26, 2013 21:47:42
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Carrot

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Posted on Wed Jun 26, 2013 21:54:58
Well there's something about being counted but my vote not counting for anything that makes me not want to vote. That and having to choose between two evils, as well as my vote suddenly sticking me into categories of people.
You can feel the judgement in peoples voices when they talk about another person's political standing. Ugh.

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LimeTree

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Posted on Wed Jun 26, 2013 22:15:05
The guys a war criminal.

Lets hope the south africans follow through and arrest him already.

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BuckWyld

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Posted on Wed Jun 26, 2013 22:19:02
Clearly your trolling Brogo. Cause you allready know what direction this thread is headed.

Personally, i think Obama is a piece of shit. Not to say Bush wasnt as equal of a piece of shit. But at least he had the nuts to stand behind the troops & take his backlash head on. Instead of hiding behind drone strikes that have claimed the lives of untold amounts of innocents, while trying to proclaim his saint hood.

I have many more reason i wouldnt piss on Obama if he were on fire. But i have far far better things to do with my time than argue with the anal retentiveness of Torns NR community.

* waits for the likes of the usual that thinks Obama walks on water, to tell me what a misinformed bigot i am * sigh, yawn, blah blah blah.

Please excuse my puncuation for obvious recent forum issues.

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BuckWyld

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Posted on Wed Jun 26, 2013 22:28:44
By LimeTree [1321200]
The guys a war criminal.

Lets hope the south africans follow through and arrest him already.


Agreed. Not to mention the 100m REAL $$(;not Torn $$, for the tards who dont know the difference); this is costing the taxpayers. What a greedy selfish f**king asshole. I guess he has no concept what so ever how many struggling Americans or charitable organizations that $$ could help pull out of the hole.



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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Wed Jun 26, 2013 22:43:33
I do NOT think Obama is a piece of shit.

But remember this bit?
in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.


The Snowdens, the Mannings, the Assanges of this world - in my earnest opinion - deserve no better fate in this world than a lifetime of solitary confinement in Marion, Ohio.

There are only Hardliners and traitors. I will stand with the Hardliners.

But of course, I have not got the slightest illusion over the character of the President - a realist. [ The irony was that so many of my friends in the local [UK] left were utterly confused all those years ago by my robust support for a man that they expected me to dislike greatly - seems that I assessed the man more accurately than they did ]

The liberals and the libertarians suffer from an intellectual climate that has too much Ghandi and not enough Macchiavelli.


I will quote George Orwell in his Notes on Nationalism.

(;%;;v);%;; Pacifism. The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are simply humanitarians who object to the taking of life and prefer not to follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists whose real though unadmitted motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration of totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writings of younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States. Moreover they do not as a rule condemn violence as such, but only violence used in defence of western countries. The Russians, unlike the British, are not blamed for defending themselves by warlike means, and indeed all pacifist propaganda of this type avoids mention of Russia or China. It is not claimed, again, that the Indians should abjure violence in their struggle against the British. Pacifist literature abounds with equivocal remarks which, if they mean anything, appear to mean that statesmen of the type of Hitler are preferable to those of the type of Churchill, and that violence is perhaps excusable if it is violent enough. After the fall of France, the French pacifists, faced by a real choice which their English colleagues have not had to make, mostly went over to the Nazis, and in England there appears to have been some small overlap of membership between the Peace Pledge unio%;;n and the Blackshirts. Pacifist writers have written in praise of Carlyle, one of the intellectual fathers of Fascism. All in all it is difficult not to feel that pacifism, as it appears among a section of the intelligentsia, is secretly inspired by an admiration for power and successful cruelty. The mistake was made of pinning this emotion to Hitler, but it could easily be retransfered.



Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writings of younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States.

Nothing Has Changed!


Those who abjure violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.

Again, that was George Orwell.




Last Edited: Wed Jun 26, 2013 22:57:40
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PrOnE2DiE

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 02:12:34
I refuse to post on this subject based on the fact that the subject matter is not worth my opinion. Much like the last election was not worth my vote. Neither Candidate was worth a shit on a shingle to me so neither got my vote.

And yes I have Voted my entire adult life. But with two arrogant assholes running for the most powerful office in the world I saw no good choice so I made none.

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UnknownElement

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 03:28:32
By LimeTree [1321200]
The guys a war criminal.

Lets hope the south africans follow through and arrest him already.


get a grip hows he a war criminal when he ended 1 war someone else started and is trying to end another someone else started and never started a war himself.



hi
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Swag

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 03:35:18
We dont like him because we arent socialist. He is. Plus the ramming of Obamacare down our throats (;;Which a majority of the population doesnt want);;, the fact that they have lied about every aspect of it. Starting with it isnt a tax.....Then in the supreme court, they argued it was a tax. Said it would cost 900b and people would save on average of 2500 per family. That figure is up to almost 2 trillion and some states are seeing over a 100%;; increase in premiums. People are already losing jobs because of it and it hasnt been fully implemented yet. These ";exchanges"; that he has set up are nothing more than a way to funnel money to democratic organizations like the NAACP (;;600k);;,SEIU (;;2m);;,LA County AFL-CIO(;;1m);;. None of these have absolutely ZERO to do with health care, they are being paid for nothing but to drum up democratic votes. This doesnt need marketing, that would be like the DMV doing ad campaigns for people to come in to get drivers licences. (;California also amended their open records laws to hide who got this money for a year, and how much they got indefintiely. Sneaky as f**k right?); All 100 percent bullshit. Thats enough of that though.

IRS...Enough said.

Benghazi...Enough said.

NSA....Enough said.

He apparently didnt know about any of those but benghazi, but he was too busy sleeping or blowing someone to do his job there...

Bottom line is hes incompetent to the highest degree. I would say he sucks with economics, but the economy is going right down the shitter where he wants it. He wouldnt have been elected if it wasnt for the lower class, and he has to make sure that there is a permanent underclass so people like him keep getting elected. You wouldnt belive the number of $500 cars with $2500 rims at the voting booths last year. I bet none of them have a job except for holding down the couch and wasting my tax money in the form of food stamps. We do have 50 MILLION people on food stamps now.

I agree with Buckwyld, i think hes a piece of shit. I actually hope he dies in a grease fire.

Last Edited: Thu Jun 27, 2013 03:38:30
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Scootaloo

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 03:43:16
By Cathead [1581564]
By Scootaloo [1590427]
By Carrot [276687]
*whispers* Sub-section. Please, give life to the sub-sections. Your Obama thread shall give hope to the sub-sections.


Yeah. This belongs in politics.

But I refuse to vote for any political party/candidate.

It';;s always choosing between two evils. Like choosing between crap and urine.

Until I get shown a politician that is nite full of crap, and is completely honest, I refuse to vote.


"Sorry folks, a lot of what we're saying in this, the lead up to the elections, is not feasible and we're just playing a huge balancing act between pleasing the people who vote for us and the people who are funding us. We're going to be saying a load of shit right now that will make you more inclined to vote for us and for people to give us more money but some of it just won't be true. At the end of the day, this fight, for me and my party, is for me and my party. Nothing matters as much to me as my looking like I'm winning this fight for power. A compromise must be made and it's you, the voters, who will be making it. You are choosing between a rock and a hard place and always will be. The world's not perfect and neither is this system that we've created."

Yeah, that would get my vote too.


I like it. Straight to the point and doesn't fool you around.

To be honest, if a politician said that during an election, I'd vote for them. At least they won't be sugar coating it.



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UnknownElement

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 03:48:05
By Swag [929733]
We dont like him because we arent socialist. He is. Plus the ramming of Obamacare down our throats (;;Which a majority of the population doesnt want);;, the fact that they have lied about every aspect of it. Starting with it isnt a tax.....Then in the supreme court, they argued it was a tax. Said it would cost 900b and people would save on average of 2500 per family. That figure is up to almost 2 trillion and some states are seeing over a 100%;; increase in premiums. People are already losing jobs because of it and it hasnt been fully implemented yet. These ";exchanges"; that he has set up are nothing more than a way to funnel money to democratic organizations like the NAACP (;;600k);;,SEIU (;;2m);;,LA County AFL-CIO(;;1m);;. None of these have absolutely ZERO to do with health care, they are being paid for nothing but to drum up democratic votes. This doesnt need marketing, that would be like the DMV doing ad campaigns for people to come in to get drivers licences. (;California also amended their open records laws to hide who got this money for a year, and how much they got indefintiely. Sneaky as f**k right?); All 100 percent bullshit. Thats enough of that though.

IRS...Enough said.

Benghazi...Enough said.

NSA....Enough said.

He apparently didnt know about any of those but benghazi, but he was too busy sleeping or blowing someone to do his job there...

Bottom line is hes incompetent to the highest degree. I would say he sucks with economics, but the economy is going right down the shitter where he wants it. He wouldnt have been elected if it wasnt for the lower class, and he has to make sure that there is a permanent underclass so people like him keep getting elected. You wouldnt belive the number of $500 cars with $2500 rims at the voting booths last year. I bet none of them have a job except for holding down the couch and wasting my tax money in the form of food stamps. We do have 50 MILLION people on food stamps now.

I agree with Buckwyld, i think hes a piece of shit. I actually hope he dies in a grease fire.


its fine to have your opinion and i could respect that but the hidden racism in the 500 dollar cars and 2500 rims is disgusting. were you at all the voting booths last year, so how would you know this

facts
1. stock market twice as high as when he took office,
2. unemployment lower then when he took office.
3. economy has had 2 negative months since he took over, it may not be rip roaring but it slowly increases even so the house of representatives will not help in shape or manner on anything he tries to implement.

as for nsa , that program was actually started by bush. the same people complaining about it now are the same ones who say where was the intel when an attack occurs on american soil.
as for benghazi this wasnt first time an embassy overseas has been attacked.
as for irs yeah that is bullshit but every and i mean every administration has its scandals and it will always be this way

as for you hoping he dies in a grease fire is just ignorant.

hi
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Scootaloo

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 04:04:13
By DarthBrogo [21801]
Well, cathead, if you had been listening to Milliband [you will catch up when home ] it is exactly that.
There are no margins for alternatives.
Usually, any fool can see (;%;;[as with the budget ] that there are only very limited options.
The Books must be balanced or be juggled - no other options.


A Realist simply calculates that whoever wins has to play hardball in TWOT.

Either people can bear responsibility as citizens and choose unflinchingly between crap and urine.
Or people can be hipsters and refuse to choose, and thereby forsake their duty as Citizen - to
to bear every duty unflinchingly.

Hipsters - who on the purest personal principles refuse to pick sides - [ I am not talking about you, cathead ] are UNFIT to be treated as Citizens.

The basic choices are unaffected by personal preference or personal principle, but determined by objective conditions.

Be a Fundi
https:;%;;%;;//de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundi
Or be a Realo
https:;%;;%;;//de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realo

But above all - stand up and be counted, or sit down and be silent forever.



I think you misunderstood me. I have decided. Not to vote. I refuse to vote until a candidate upholds 100%; of their word and does what the people want instead of what a rich, powerful se;lect minority want.

Let's look at the legalization of marijuana for an example:;

Over 50%; of Americans want recreational marijuana legalized.

97%; of congress want it to stay illegal.

Most of congress is old, white men sticking with what they were told in their childhood and dismissing any evidence that it isn't as dangerous as alcohol. It conflicts with their interests so they won't allow it passed.

Now, I don't know about you, but if the majority want something, they should get it. Same with the leaked information about data taps. The majority want public hearings about it. And no public hearings yet.

I think we can agree that undecided voters and those that vote on impulse are idiots though.

Plus, hipster? Seriously? Never been called one of those before.


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GirlFriday

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 04:10:45
By Unknown_One [450910]
By Swag [929733]
You wouldnt belive the number of $500 cars with $2500 rims at the voting booths last year. I bet none of them have a job except for holding down the couch and wasting my tax money in the form of food stamps. We do have 50 MILLION people on food stamps now.


its fine to have your opinion and i could respect that but the hidden racism in the 500 dollar cars and 2500 rims is disgusting. were you at all the voting booths last year, so how would you know this


He didn't associate the $500 car and $2500 rims with any race. You did.

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-El-

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 04:32:20
I'd comment, but I'm a northerner from NYC. We tend to worry about attacks from the outside instead of worrying about attacks from the inside.

;);

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Bueno_Excelente

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 04:54:45

By LucyLiplock [570368]
By Unknown_One [450910]
By Swag [929733]
You wouldnt belive the number of $500 cars with $2500 rims at the voting booths last year. I bet none of them have a job except for holding down the couch and wasting my tax money in the form of food stamps. We do have 50 MILLION people on food stamps now.


its fine to have your opinion and i could respect that but the hidden racism in the 500 dollar cars and 2500 rims is disgusting. were you at all the voting booths last year, so how would you know this


He didn';t associate the $500 car and $2500 rims with any race. You did.


Ah, for the wonderful 1950s, when you could still just come straight out and call them ******s.... none of this namby-pamby beating around the bush!


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Gungrave
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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 05:01:41
I've never liked him ever since he did the bailouts

If a company is unable to efficiently run itself and balance its budgets maybe it should stop paying its CEOs millions of dollars and asking for government bailout money then the company should just go bankrupt allowing for smaller companies to take over and provide more healthy competition.

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UnknownElement

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 05:08:39
By Bueno_Excelente [34014]

By LucyLiplock [570368]
By Unknown_One [450910]
By Swag [929733]
You wouldnt belive the number of $500 cars with $2500 rims at the voting booths last year. I bet none of them have a job except for holding down the couch and wasting my tax money in the form of food stamps. We do have 50 MILLION people on food stamps now.


its fine to have your opinion and i could respect that but the hidden racism in the 500 dollar cars and 2500 rims is disgusting. were you at all the voting booths last year, so how would you know this


He didn';;t associate the $500 car and $2500 rims with any race. You did.


Ah, for the wonderful 1950s, when you could still just come straight out and call them ******s.... none of this namby-pamby beating around the bush!



call who what? dont be scared now.. enough of this thread for me. im going back to reading my malcolm x novel


hi
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LSD

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 05:12:56
By Swag [929733]
We dont like him because we arent socialist.


Oh to be an American. I'd love to be sore about the cold war!

Let's fix that post, and see what you actually meant:;


He wouldnt have been elected if it wasnt for the lower class black people. You wouldnt belive the number of $500 cars with $2500 rims black people at the voting booths last year. I bet none of them have a job except for holding down the couch and wasting my tax money in the form of food stamps.


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UnknownElement

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 05:21:53
By LSD [883567]
By Swag [929733]
We dont like him because we arent socialist.


Oh to be an American. I';d love to be sore about the cold war!

Let';s fix that post, and see what you actually meant:;;


He wouldnt have been elected if it wasnt for the lower class black people. You wouldnt belive the number of $500 cars with $2500 rims black people at the voting booths last year. I bet none of them have a job except for holding down the couch and wasting my tax money in the form of food stamps.


glad im not only one who understood what he really meant even so he would never have the stones to admit it.

you wouldnt believe the amount of pick up trucks and tractors at the polls also

hi
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Bueno_Excelente

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 05:33:41

By Unknown_One [450910]
glad im not only one who understood what he really meant


I did try to punch up the sarcasm...


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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 09:36:35
By Scootaloo [1590427]


I think you misunderstood me. I have decided. Not to vote. I refuse to vote until a candidate upholds 100%;; of their word and does what the people want instead of what a rich, powerful se;lect minority want.

Let';s look at the legalization of marijuana for an example:;;

Over 50%;; of Americans want recreational marijuana legalized.

97%;; of congress want it to stay illegal.

Most of congress is old, white men sticking with what they were told in their childhood and dismissing any evidence that it isn';t as dangerous as alcohol. It conflicts with their interests so they won';t allow it passed.

Now, I don';t know about you, but if the majority want something, they should get it. Same with the leaked information about data taps. The majority want public hearings about it. And no public hearings yet.

I think we can agree that undecided voters and those that vote on impulse are idiots though.

Plus, hipster? Seriously? Never been called one of those before.


I can think of a great deal of things where the majority WANTS something and where no responsible decisionmaker should allow it.
Wsnting something for themselves fits the bill rather nicely in that regard.

Treason supported by a majority remains treason none-the-less. I refer to a majoriy in S.Carolina around 1860 desiring and voting for secession. That does not make secession a thing the majority should get - but instead, that makes the majority supporting secession a majority of traitors only fit for dancing Danny Deever.

The wellbeing of the State demands safeguarding the Arcana Imperii [State Secrets] . A desire to have a look is neither laudable nor acceptable.

I may very well have a great deal of objections to a decision to go to war [Iraq] - but once it has been taken, the only thing to do is to carry that war to some form of succesful conclusion. And everything becomes subordinate to that - except for Salus Republicae (; Wellbeing of the State ); which is the only important reason for accepting an unsuccesful conclusion.

[Vietnam qualifies as a good example where Salus Republicae demands accepting an unsuccesful conclusion no matter how distasteful it may be - since the VC was less dangerous than WARPAC and a focus on the VC was undermining capabilities to resist WARPAC to a VERY dangerous extent.]

I can certainly understand a decision not to vote. As it happens, I just had a little a meeting with a few political friends, earlier this week. A] About publicly refusing to support a Party of which the majority of us are card-carrying members[not me, though], and B] having arrived at some sort of idea of what alternative policy would fit the objective conditions.

You may see how B] ties in with my wrath at Huffington and similar Copperheads.
They demand a change of policy w/o explaining howe Victory is obtained none-the-less.

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Fujiko

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 09:39:47
By PrOnE2DiE [692571]
I refuse to post on this subject based on the fact that the subject matter is not worth my opinion. Much like the last election was not worth my vote. Neither Candidate was worth a shit on a shingle to me so neither got my vote.

And yes I have Voted my entire adult life. But with two arrogant assholes running for the most powerful office in the world I saw no good choice so I made none.


People like this are part of the problem. I voted for Johnson, the Libertarian candidate, knowing that he would, in all likelihood, not win. He did, however, have a record percentage of any third-party candidate in recent history, despite having neither corporate sponsorship, nor the backing of the propaganda machine.

The sheeple in the United Stateswill always vote either Democrat or Republican, because both are in the payroll of the financial interests, who are destroying, not only the U.S. and U.K., but all the nations of the world. It was never about politics. It was always about the money. Those two parties win because they have better advertising, and for no other real reason. Most Americans know that neither party produces trustworthy candidates. We began on this path during the lifetimes of the Founding Fathers, and they themselves knew it.

If everyone voted, and made an informed decision with all possible candidates given equal consideration, this would not be happening. It really is that simple. The answer is right there in the Constitution, and hopefully it will be used before it is too late. The Founders knew that government leads to tyranny and misery, and so the Constitution was never intended to establish a government like what we have today. To use it correctly, the Constitution is a tool meant to abolish Government, to minimize it, to control it before it gets out of hand.

For example:; The Constitution guarantees freedom of speech.

Wikipedia says this about it in the 1st paragraph (;copy/paste for convenience sake);:;
---
The First Amendment (;Amendment I); to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that comprise the Bill of Rights.
---
The *only* way that can be legally circumvented, in a large or small way, is to amend the Constitution, which is exceedingly difficult to do, and changes to the Bill of Rights would be next to impossible, because Americans would be outraged. Yet the Obama administration has done just that without going through the proper legal channels.

//communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/leading-edge-legal-advice-everyday-matters/2012/aug/1/i-object-i-disagree-can-i-now-say-so-publicly/

Therefore, the Constitution is not the basis of law in the U.S. and anarchy prevails.

Still not convinced?

[url]//yesmoke.eu/about/history/swiss-yesmoke-brand/[/url]

This action violated Universal Postal Convention of September 15, 1999, in which cigarettes was one of the permitted products, and was signed into agreement by both Switzerland and the United States. According to the U.S. Constitution, treaties are the supreme law of the land. Therefore, since this treaty was violated, the law on all fronts in the United States does not follow itself, and is therefore invalid.

Thus, I have demonstrated through factual evidence that a state of anarchy prevails in the United States, and all law there is null and void. This is the conclusion that the Skull and Bones Society has endeavored that the people should reach, and why both George W. Bush, and Barrak Obama (;both muppets, as most politicians are); did what they did and do what they do, stupid as it may seem, unless one looks at the big picture.

So what is the solution? Nullifying all law through Constitutional convention, and fixing the mistakes of the past. The Founders knew that if control of currency remained in the hands of the Congress, that would be basically all the Congress would be able to deal with. Since that responsibility was outsourced to a private corporation (;the Federal Reserve); tyrannical government has exploded. Yet, the fact remains that he governs best who governs least.

It's still not too late to fix it, if enough people will take action.

189becd3-7317-bbf6-341315.gif
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TedThomas

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:55:03
By Swag [929733]
We dont like him because we arent socialist. He is.


Lol. What a crock of crap.

If you think Obama is a socialist you have your head up your ass.

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:57:55
By Fujiko [341315]

People like this are part of the problem. I voted for Johnson, the Libertarian candidate, knowing that he would, in all likelihood, not win. He did, however, have a record percentage of any third-party candidate in recent history, despite having neither corporate sponsorship, nor the backing of the propaganda machine.


Ross Perot (;both times); and Ralph Nader got way more votes than Gary Johnson did, so what are you talking about...

Last Edited: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:59:13
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DarthBrogo

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:31:58
Fujiko, you demonstrated not quite that much.

Neither Will of the People nor Due Process let alone Constitution is a precondition for the existence and execution of Law. Law is upheld - pace possibly Divine Command - by an Aparatus operating through Force.

Inasmuch as people still can be - and are - arrested and tried and jailed for breaking Laws, anarchy does not prevail. You have merely demonstrated your dislike of the prevailing Arche.

Finally, I am slightest surprised that you should distinguish Between Democracy and the Rule of Money. The obsrvation that these things are interchangeable did not just start with Oswald Spengler and the Untergang des Abendlandes. Lykorgos [ the Spartan ] realised the same.

The Organisation of Power can only be done in a few different ways. An organisation which is not based on the utilisation of Naked Force is at best a temporary aberation.

Democracy manages to be competitive against, say, absolute Dictatorship because Money is pretty good at buying Naked Force,and much better at actually USING naked force. Total Dictatorships and military incompetence have a tendency to go hand-in-hand.

If you were to implement a hypothetical form of Democracy not based on that basic realisation, it would be swept away by whichever 2-bit Cromwell or Mussolini realised that nothing was going to stop him.



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UnknownElement

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 14:33:13
By Fujiko [341315]
By PrOnE2DiE [692571]
I refuse to post on this subject based on the fact that the subject matter is not worth my opinion. Much like the last election was not worth my vote. Neither Candidate was worth a shit on a shingle to me so neither got my vote.

And yes I have Voted my entire adult life. But with two arrogant assholes running for the most powerful office in the world I saw no good choice so I made none.


People like this are part of the problem. I voted for Johnson, the Libertarian candidate, knowing that he would, in all likelihood, not win. He did, however, have a record percentage of any third-party candidate in recent history, despite having neither corporate sponsorship, nor the backing of the propaganda machine.

The sheeple in the United Stateswill always vote either Democrat or Republican, because both are in the payroll of the financial interests, who are destroying, not only the U.S. and U.K., but all the nations of the world. It was never about politics. It was always about the money. Those two parties win because they have better advertising, and for no other real reason. Most Americans know that neither party produces trustworthy candidates. We began on this path during the lifetimes of the Founding Fathers, and they themselves knew it.

If everyone voted, and made an informed decision with all possible candidates given equal consideration, this would not be happening. It really is that simple. The answer is right there in the Constitution, and hopefully it will be used before it is too late. The Founders knew that government leads to tyranny and misery, and so the Constitution was never intended to establish a government like what we have today. To use it correctly, the Constitution is a tool meant to abolish Government, to minimize it, to control it before it gets out of hand.

For example:;;; The Constitution guarantees freedom of speech.

Wikipedia says this about it in the 1st paragraph (;;;copy/paste for convenience sake);;;:;;;
---
The First Amendment (;;;Amendment I);;; to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that comprise the Bill of Rights.
---
The *only* way that can be legally circumvented, in a large or small way, is to amend the Constitution, which is exceedingly difficult to do, and changes to the Bill of Rights would be next to impossible, because Americans would be outraged. Yet the Obama administration has done just that without going through the proper legal channels.

//communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/leading-edge-legal-advice-everyday-matters/2012/aug/1/i-object-i-disagree-can-i-now-say-so-publicly/

Therefore, the Constitution is not the basis of law in the U.S. and anarchy prevails.

Still not convinced?

[url]//yesmoke.eu/about/history/swiss-yesmoke-brand/[/url]

This action violated Universal Postal Convention of September 15, 1999, in which cigarettes was one of the permitted products, and was signed into agreement by both Switzerland and the United States. According to the U.S. Constitution, treaties are the supreme law of the land. Therefore, since this treaty was violated, the law on all fronts in the United States does not follow itself, and is therefore invalid.

Thus, I have demonstrated through factual evidence that a state of anarchy prevails in the United States, and all law there is null and void. This is the conclusion that the Skull and Bones Society has endeavored that the people should reach, and why both George W. Bush, and Barrak Obama (;;;both muppets, as most politicians are);;; did what they did and do what they do, stupid as it may seem, unless one looks at the big picture.

So what is the solution? Nullifying all law through Constitutional convention, and fixing the mistakes of the past. The Founders knew that if control of currency remained in the hands of the Congress, that would be basically all the Congress would be able to deal with. Since that responsibility was outsourced to a private corporation (;;;the Federal Reserve);;; tyrannical government has exploded. Yet, the fact remains that he governs best who governs least.

It';;s still not too late to fix it, if enough people will take action.


most of the constitution i agree with but i dont understand why people think its the greatest document ever and has no room for improvement or adaptation, it was writtten almost 250 years ago by people who used to crap in outhouses,wiped their butts with corn cobs and didnt have running water. everything has advanced since than so it would make sense that this archaic document should also change, the forefathers made this for 13 little states with no idea of how big america would become both in size and as a world economic power.

i always see people complain about the government is bad, the government sucks, america is horrible but ihave yet to see one of you so called free thinkers pack your crap and move elsewhere.

Last Edited: Thu Jun 27, 2013 14:57:19
hi
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Swag

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Posted on Thu Jun 27, 2013 15:10:05
You guys caught me, im super racist. The black guy in one of my profile pictures that was in my wedding can vouch for my racial intolerance. Good eye there.

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