By Solaris [459981]
For everyone demanding more transparency I just want to say that while it looks good on paper it wouldn't really work. The public found out about the med cooldown a few days early and lost their shit about it, nevermind thinking about it logically or waiting to test it out. Turns out that now that it is released they all realize that it is not a big deal, almost no one is effected and we can all live on in peace. Beyond you guys going berzerk constantly it would also be bad for the economy because the more we tell you about what we are discussing the more everyone will speculate about prices of things. We have been talking about med changes for long time and with lots of different ways to implement it, some might have made meds more expensive, some might have made them cheaper, but it isn't good practice to let the public know about that kind of stuff and make the item market more volatile.
For everyone demanding more transparency I just want to say that while it looks good on paper it wouldn't really work. - Guess what, this is what we are also saying about the players committee!
By Butters [34298]
I'm not sure what is wrong with the response that Cynic mentioned above - it's a (probably well-known) fact that we are not permitted to discuss potential or forthcoming updates outside the committee until they have been released (I presume it's the same rule that staff operate under), so it's not just some BS line committee members trot out to avoid discussing things with the general player population...
Whats wrong with it, is that it is not the only way to communicate with people.
Additionally you can easily ask opinions about things without giving away what is being planned. For example in the case of cooldown on med items - the aim was to make hospitalisations mean more.
So why couldnt one member of the committee ask a general question on "how can we make hospitalisations mean more?"
Then follow that up by picking up on 3-4 ideas of which one probably would have been cooldown on med items and ask about opinions on these ideas. that way you do not give away what is being looked at, and you engage the people on the forums. We dont just hear from the players committee once they have made a decision. People actually feel like the committee exists for them.
As far as I can see the way the players committee works is you get told, this is what we want to do. then you guys go round in circles until the majority are convinced to do it. Would have been quicker for ched to just implement it straight off rather then pass it for token approval.
I don't disagree with you there wrt crowd-sourcing potential ideas (you're a bit off the mark in terms of how the committee runs though - as Beerstein mentioned above I was surprised at exactly how the discussions take place after joining the committee recently), but it needs to happen before the thrashing out of details for an update begins.
Once the update discussion starts taking place within the committee consulting with the general populace gets trickier for the reasons mentioned above in a few different responses unless the discussions happen to come to an impasse and new ideas are needed.
What I personally would always have liked to see is a more concerted effort to identify potential updates that the general player population feel are important/should have priority (to be honest while the suggestions forum is a good-enough melting pot of ideas it can be difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff sometimes).
ie. not just big things such as - for example - the warring system, but other aspects of the game that annoy players because they suffer from less-than-optimal manner of execution as often it will be a relatively minor "tweak" which improves the gameplay in a small way that gets the best reception overall.
Do you think that would be an effective way of getting the TC populace more involved?
-----------
Going slightly off-topic here:
The overall sentiment in Beerstein's post above is one I'd like to repeat - there isn't a great deal we can do when players just rage against an update (because it goes against their vested interests), but constructive feedback/ideas which may improve the update on the other hand does give us something more tangible to discuss.
Its not only about getting the TC population involved, but keeping them involved. Perhaps this is completely the wrong view, but I believe the players committee should be leading debates about ways to improve tweak whatever.
No one hears from the players committee until there is an update, I have always felt they should constantly be creating debate and discussion on the forums. Even if it isnt involving an update they know of, just ask questions to the general population.
Its as much about show as it is effectiveness. They have to be seen to be active and involving people regardless of if they care or not. Do that and you keep 75% of people quiet. Then you only have to worry about the other 25 who see through it!
To be fair, it was tried in the past and it turned into a flame fest. The thread ended being graveyarded (although granted, YiD probably wasn't the best choice to lead the discussion).
Buying bulk Boxes of Grenades 1mil each - Just start trade for fast sale
By Butters [34298]
Since when has glass dooring carried with it an obligation to rehab immediately?
A loophole in this context is a course of action that allows to to circumvent a gameplay constraint which would otherwise be imposed or which allows a player to access content they are not entitled to.
I've looked everywhere and I can't find anything in the rules that dictates players must rehab after glass dooring and/or they should not attempt to enter the gym while glass dooring.
You find something in the rules that clearly prohibits such actions Styx and you have a case - until then you are just clutching at straws I'm afraid.
Thanks for making my point for me. Rules are as follows:
Game Bug Abuse
Failing to report a fluke/loophole in the game and taking advantage of it is forbidden.
Using the glassdoor is a loophole. It was reported but it was used therefor bug abuse. The advantage was 2 awards. Which currently they are worth 40 million each based on the dirty bomb award for sale.
Now with that said, back to the committee and why I think its broken, they catered to druggies by not changing or making it so ODs would have to wait before a revive.
Using morphine you could only use 24 therefor no way you could just morph out. So why would you not make revives be on a cool down as well. I would speculate majority if not all are druggies.
If you wanted to be fair then you will have to make a revive a cooldown as well. Such as a revive can only remove 75 percent of your time in the hospital across the board if your in for 84 hours or 5 minutes.
By Butters [34298]
Since when has glass dooring carried with it an obligation to rehab immediately?
A loophole in this context is a course of action that allows to to circumvent a gameplay constraint which would otherwise be imposed or which allows a player to access content they are not entitled to.
I've looked everywhere and I can't find anything in the rules that dictates players must rehab after glass dooring and/or they should not attempt to enter the gym while glass dooring.
You find something in the rules that clearly prohibits such actions Styx and you have a case - until then you are just clutching at straws I'm afraid.
Thanks for making my point for me. Rules are as follows:
Game Bug Abuse
Failing to report a fluke/loophole in the game and taking advantage of it is forbidden.
Using the glassdoor is a loophole. It was reported but it was used therefor bug abuse. The advantage was 2 awards. Which currently they are worth 40 million each based on the dirty bomb award for sale.
Now with that said, back to the committee and why I think its broken, they catered to druggies by not changing or making it so ODs would have to wait before a revive.
Using morphine you could only use 24 therefor no way you could just morph out. So why would you not make revives be on a cool down as well. I would speculate majority if not all are druggies.
If you wanted to be fair then you will have to make a revive a cooldown as well. Such as a revive can only remove 75 percent of your time in the hospital across the board if your in for 84 hours or 5 minutes.
You seem to have a huge issue with druggies. Long before this update came out. You may want to do a little soul searching there and ask yourself if your raging hatred for all things drug related is not just a bit out of hand and skewing your perspective on other things.
Sorry Styx, but nobody has made your case for you here I'm afraid.
You keep referring back to the "loophole" thing and continue to blithely ignore the point that staff okay'd it - you still need to show something that specifically prohibits the glass dooring trick - simply casting your own assertion that it is bug abuse does not make it so (especially in light of the fact that staff okay'd it).
Hell you could even save yourself some time and just ask Clansy or one of the other senior staffers if it was ok to use glass dooring to put yourself in hospital at will - I'm pretty sure that they are more qualified to judge whether bug abuse has taken place here than you or anyone else might be.
As for the new "no change to bounties" aspect of your argument - now you really are just clutching at straws.
By Butters [34298]
For the record I read the highlighted grab from Solaris' post as:
"I used the glass door trick to get to 50k meds used right away when I heard about it (the glass door trick)"
as opposed to:
"I used the glass door trick to get to 50k meds used right away when I heard about it (the med item cooldown update)"
Just sayin...
Medical items used: 48,895
Nope. Seems something spurred her into a flurry of week-long glass dooring in order to get close to 50k meds used. Greg obviously glassed doored himself to the merit (as he has over 50k used); Solaris seems to have only gotten herself damn close...so close she could easily have climbed the rest of the way regardless of med cooldowns later on. Seems strange to jump all the way up from ~ 14-15k to 48k then stop just short of your goal, no?
i've already answered that question but I can understand how you might have missed it in the loads of posts here. I stopped short because I expected to be able to get to 50k from xanax od's that I naturally encounter. that by itself should say something because you cant med out of the hospital after xanax ods anymore
I remember Solaris stating this exact same thing in Vinerri factionchat about not taking it all the way to 50k.
Until proven otherwise there cant be any other conclusion then not guilty.
Please also do not forget the effort and time members of staff and player committee make to keep trying Torn going in the right direction.
We as a player community should respect their efforts regardless of our personal views on specific topics imho.
I was the one telling Solaris to get the med awards and always pushing her into it. I also advised her to stop short of her goal.. The way she even did it was something I instructed her on.
She's definitely not the type of person to go plotting against the game, get a grip people.
This is not to complain about the new 'approvments' added to the game, but i was going through the reason committe members have gave for giving the green tick for implementing a idea and you got to question are they really giving the honest judgement on the suggestion or acutally 'jumping on the band wagon' and just voting yes. The commitee was meant to be the voice of the people, but the stuff they vote for almost 90% + of the commitee members agree for it to be implement. However when the suggestion come out you could argue for some of the suggestion a vast majority is against it. Thats a massive difference between what people are saying and the voice of the community.
Anyways, by now i guess you have to be a bit naive to think they are the voice of the community of torn rather than just a commitee. My point is this; how is it that the committee almost agree 100% with a suggestion or give the green tick for it to be implemented. When the view is opposite by others who play the game.
For example the chnages to the faction chaning, i read someone who wrote they never really fully agreed with the first three points and could be abused nor did it make much difference and ill qoute it was worth implementing becuase it made a difference 'however small'. Now maybe or maybe not this vote would have made any difference in weather it would have been given the go ahead or not, but that not the point. How can you disagree and say it makes only small improvment and then give the green tick for it to go ahead. Now their are major flaws in the war system and the majority of torn can point some out and give improvements 'however small' but that does not mean it should be implemented. Surely if your part of the committee you should vote properly even if it is against, Even if somthing gets implemented by 51% - 49% of the votes it should atleast give a indication of what the rest of torn would think. I get that nothing will ever be implemented that 100% agree with but in my opinion too many people are just voting yes for the sake of it
By MohammedAbu [1582618]
This is not to complain about the new 'approvments' added to the game, but i was going through the reason committe members have gave for giving the green tick for implementing a idea and you got to question are they really giving the honest judgement on the suggestion or acutally 'jumping on the band wagon' and just voting yes. The commitee was meant to be the voice of the people, but the stuff they vote for almost 90% + of the commitee members agree for it to be implement. However when the suggestion come out you could argue for some of the suggestion a vast majority is against it. Thats a massive difference between what people are saying and the voice of the community.
Anyways, by now i guess you have to be a bit naive to think they are the voice of the community of torn rather than just a commitee. My point is this; how is it that the committee almost agree 100% with a suggestion or give the green tick for it to be implemented. When the view is opposite by others who play the game.
For example the chnages to the faction chaning, i read someone who wrote they never really fully agreed with the first three points and could be abused nor did it make much difference and ill qoute it was worth implementing becuase it made a difference 'however small'. Now maybe or maybe not this vote would have made any difference in weather it would have been given the go ahead or not, but that not the point. How can you disagree and say it makes only small improvment and then give the green tick for it to go ahead. Now their are major flaws in the war system and the majority of torn can point some out and give improvements 'however small' but that does not mean it should be implemented. Surely if your part of the committee you should vote properly even if it is against, Even if somthing gets implemented by 51% - 49% of the votes it should atleast give a indication of what the rest of torn would think. I get that nothing will ever be implemented that 100% agree with but in my opinion too many people are just voting yes for the sake of it
By Driving [1497275]
I don't get why Ched doesn't just ask the public, why do public polls not work?
Democracy works does it not?
They clearly work, Ched just doesn't like being transparent.
yeah thats a great idea. public polls are much better than people shouting at each other in the gd forum "discussing" something that maybe wont be heard by the staff or admins or the most important ched
By Driving [1497275]
I don't get why Ched doesn't just ask the public, why do public polls not work?
Because players will generally only vote for what benefits them personally, even though it may well be to the overall detriment of the game.
Nailed it.
Now, this thread is 6 months old, dead, burred.... it was about the medical update, people are still complaining about booster cooldown? Nope. Haven't heard a peep out of that in ages.
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