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Forum Main>>Announcements>> Faction warfare changes #2
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Kradlum
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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 18:03:52
It's great to see the TC team react to the feedback this way!

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Sjefferies
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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 18:11:32


Now, what if it was a 100 respect faction that was full of level 20's-30's and the 17K respect faction had the same? Would you still be saying that they shouldn't get any respect for declaring on them? Even if they are on the same level?

No. That isn't fair. And what if it's the 100 respect faction declaring on the 17K faction.

And don't say it doesn't happen. Look st HT-Vendetta. I don't know if they bought a brand spanking new faction at 100 respect or bought one that was for sale.

But they took a small faction, declared on everyone around and brought it to the HoF in no time.

So, you have to look at all of the angles here. It's not always the big respect guys that are the strongest, or the ones doing the declaring.

And you all say how it's unfair that all the little guys get declared on and destroyed. But like it's been said before, look at DA, they are in the HoF and not all their members are level 30+, far from it. But they work hard and they didn't complain about having to work to get to the HoF. They didn't expect it all to be handed to them.[/quote]

You are saying how the litle factions moan about how hard it is for them, but that is what the HoF factions who have plenty of money and are strong are doing, we just want the chance to run factions

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Austindj21
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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 18:29:44
good to hear thanks please keep it coming we enjoy it and we will keep donating

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Irish
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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 18:34:39
Haha HoF factions kick off and ched changes his mind. I have been wanting to run another faction for a long time now, but i just cannot afford to due to the mass surrender fees i have to pay or be warred, Then throw the price of meds and vico's on top of that not to mention getting the factino in the first place and then finding members who dont mind spending alot of time in Hosp due the the wars i cant pay off. Then finally something comes round that gives a glimmer of hope to us people who cant spend all day on tc doing crimes and playing poker and then its taken away because the top dog's dont like it.


Well i just hope the revised update still leaves me with a chance to run a faction.

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Vatican

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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 18:42:52
i agree here, perhaps ched should have announced the change but not implemented it, that would have kept the arguing at bay, and not left so many newbies vulnerable in the mean time, could that update not have been tweaked to protect factions under 1 or 2k respect for the meanwhile ched?

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Phil
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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 19:09:42
oh dear.

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Assassin_Lord

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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 19:12:46
By Chedburn [1]
Okay, the beta testing of the new faction changes ran smoothly but we felt we could do better... a different approach.

We have removed the current faction changes but left in the overnight chaining update.

We feel we can do better, to better effect everyone positively. Of course, theres probably no way to completely make the change positive for the HOF factions (they will have less targets) but we can find a way to make the blow softer, so it hopefully won't effect them much at all.

Design stages for a new change will complete some time soon. Just some way to keep as many people as possible, happy. We have many ideas, if you have any ideas you would like to put forward, please use the suggestions forum.

Thanks.


Lots Faction Updates Ched

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DarkGhost

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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 19:37:49
you know.....the way to solve this would be....keep it like how you just updated it for the beta testing....but make it so the lower faction doesn't loose much respect....but the higher faction still gains the same respect. this would mean HOF would still be happy because they could still get respect...and noobs would be happy because they dont really lose that much respect sure ur just creating respect out of no where....but meh why not? it would work out to be like the HOF faction still gets its 3 respect per hit....but the faction it just attacked only loses maybe 0.5 or 1. makes it fair to everyone

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Assassin_Lord

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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 19:39:02
By DarkGhost [7012]
you know.....the way to solve this would be....keep it like how you just updated it for the beta testing....but make it so the lower faction doesn't loose much respect....but the higher faction still gains the same respect. this would mean HOF would still be happy because they could still get respect...and noobs would be happy because they dont really lose that much respect sure ur just creating respect out of no where....but meh why not? it would work out to be like the HOF faction still gets its 3 respect per hit....but the faction it just attacked only loses maybe 0.5 or 1. makes it fair to everyone



Easier said then done.:o

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DarkGhost

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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 19:47:26
lol not really bro. they already were working with a rating thing that made your respect gains go down if the faction had way lower respect than yours. all they have to do is make the respect you gain and the respect they lose into two different programs. if they can code respect gain they can code a different one for respect lose its a heck of a lot easier than changing the entire way factions are lol.

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Assassin_Lord

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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 19:49:22
By DarkGhost [7012]
lol not really bro. they already were working with a rating thing that made your respect gains go down if the faction had way lower respect than yours. all they have to do is make the respect you gain and the respect they lose into two different programs. if they can code respect gain they can code a different one for respect lose its a heck of a lot easier than changing the entire way factions are lol.


Ya but still. Not the easiest

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Oddisee
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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 19:51:53
neat

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Assassin_Lord

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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 19:53:07
sorta

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DarkGhost

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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 19:56:19
:P i dunno bro....that seems like the easiet quick fix i'v seen. HOF is happy, noobs are happy. sure its not like earth shatteringly great....but it sorta solves some problems.

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Assassin_Lord

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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 19:57:15
kl

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Dark-Ranger

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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 20:11:42
By DarkGhost [7012]
you know.....the way to solve this would be....keep it like how you just updated it for the beta testing....but make it so the lower faction doesn't loose much respect....but the higher faction still gains the same respect. this would mean HOF would still be happy because they could still get respect...and noobs would be happy because they dont really lose that much respect sure ur just creating respect out of no where....but meh why not? it would work out to be like the HOF faction still gets its 3 respect per hit....but the faction it just attacked only loses maybe 0.5 or 1. makes it fair to everyone


Do you believe low/mid class players will start establishing new factions if they know they would be serving HoF respect farms 2-4 times longer than before?

What I've heard and read, most of them gave up factions because of very different reasons than just losing their faction respect.

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rapid_riser

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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 20:26:21
By Sjefferies-DoA [452107]
Going back on this new update is ridicolous. Factions at the moment are completely unfair for weaker players, we are losing money and our factions and we can't do anything about it. Some people might say that if you aren't strong enough to run your own faction then don't buy one, well, that is stupid, factions are one of the best things about this game, they are fun to be in, you can get money from them, and it is generally quite fun, so why deny the weaker players the oppurtunity to run their own faction?

I believe that these new updates are ok, I was thrilled when I logged on and say that there were faction warring updates, then I saw what they were, I was happy, then when I logged on and saw the second announcement I thought that there would have been even more done to help the weaker factions.

The HoF moan because they can't get respect and money as easily as before, does it really matter that much, they still get to be in a top faction, not having to worry about running out of money and not being able to pay surrender fees. They make a big fuss because they will have to work a bit harder to get the respect and money they want. We the lowly factions who have to pay (in my case) most our money to buy a faction and then huge portions of it paying ridiculous surrender fees to all different factions. The HoF don't need to worry bout much, I reckon they are just greedy and lazy, more should be done to make it harder for them and easier for us.

I don't want to wait months maybe years before I am actually strong and rich enough to run my own faction, I want to be able to run one now, and not have to worry bout losing all my money.

Make more updates to help the weaker factions, the factions that actually need it.


Edited by: Sjefferies-DoA on 05/02/08 at 6:07:11 PM


I agree. Nice post. Tho I wouldnt say the HOF ware lazy. Greedy yeah but not lazy.

Now can the stalemate change be reversed also? With the new update a stale is basically the same as a loose. Its not realistic but then neither is spending respect.

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rupet
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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 20:36:11
:)



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sHoTz

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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 20:38:08
but what about holiday items

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DarkGhost

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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 21:13:18
hah or temporary items

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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 21:39:54
hey do u think u could make it so u can only have people have the same stats and stuff plike that to attack cause my factions allways get killed

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nygel
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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 22:03:55


My suggestion was to make it more efficient. If the respect gain is not worthed that the high levels won't hit low levels.

The respect has nothing to do with it, imagine two factions, both with 20 to 30 level members, but one with 5000 respect and the other with 1000, why should the one that try harder be penalized if it's hitting someone of the same size?


There is one huge point you are completely missing. A faction made up of all lvl 20+ members with 500k+ stats, declaring war on lvl 10 members with only between 10k-20k stats. This is the huge issue that you HOF players seem to be forgetting.

Question is how can you protect the little guys from getting declared on by the bigger guys, and have no chance of survivability.


A gaussian curve needs to be set up, that takes into account of stats, average faction stat and standard deviation, account lvl, average faction level and standard deviation, and respect.
where the 2 faction that war each other that are similar in all the stats will gain the most respect from each other, while 2 faction with very dis-similar in all the stats will gain or lose very little respect.


This means that a faction with lots of respect wars a faction with little respect or little stats. Both sides will gain little respect or lose little respect.

This should prevent both top feeding and bottom feeding.


A second option is putting a weighting scale in your equation where the scale is 0-1 or 0%-100%. If two faction have very similar in all stats. You can have a weighting scale of 1, which means you get 100% of the calculated respect gain.

If the two factions are dissimilar in stats, then the scaling can go as low as 1 or 1%, which means both factions can gain or lose 1% of the respect that can be gained or loss.



Edited by: Phrexis on 05/02/08 at 5:23:07 PM[/quote]

if a faction of level 10 members chains regularly to extort other lower level factions, there is no problem. I think the point that everyone seems to be missing is that factions are not companies. They take a lot more time and work to be successful.

Furthermore, let me add that faction wars are not being eliminated and factions will still loose respect. In the end result, many factions will still be zeroed. If factions make a comittment to chain and work hard, they can make it with the current system.

In my opinion the best fix is to make new factions start with 1000 respect instead of 100 respect. 100 respect can be quickly lost. Starting with 1000 gives a faction time to organize to have a good chance.

Looking at DA, we have been able to go up against strong factions and one reason why is that when have managed to gain more respect off of similar and level factions than the amount of respect taken by higher level factions. By fighting who we can take and still gaining respect even though higher levels are chainning us works. Everybody can attack someone, it is a matter of taking advantage of this and being smart.

I don't have sympathy for people who feel a faction is a right. A faction is work, and if you dont work you are zeroed. This is life.


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Chaos_knight

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Posted on Tue Feb 05, 2008 23:54:11
ok.i get what you mean:P

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Romano_Giovanni

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Posted on Wed Feb 06, 2008 00:00:08
By Chedburn [1]Of course, theres probably no way to completely make the change positive for the HOF factions (they will have less targets) but we can find a way to make the blow softer, so it hopefully won't effect them much at all.


Why soften the blow for HoF at all?!:P They are in serious need of a paring down anyway!:@

Captain Obvious, Obviously! (Who did you expect, Admiral Ambiguous?)
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Shaolin

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Posted on Wed Feb 06, 2008 02:00:34
This is going to be great!

Forever remember the good times Cydnee.

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MrsGreenthumb
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Posted on Wed Feb 06, 2008 02:18:59
cool:)

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dedHED
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Posted on Wed Feb 06, 2008 03:08:42
w


Edited by: JagBag on 06/02/08 at 3:09:57 AM

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Megadeth

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Posted on Wed Feb 06, 2008 03:09:36
Now this is good.

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Unknown_Legend
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Posted on Wed Feb 06, 2008 04:29:31
sorry this has nothing to do with the factions thing but I was wondering if there was any way to make more missions because they are so fun and a good way to make money.

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299282
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Posted on Wed Feb 06, 2008 05:33:52
just make it to when a noob faction hits zero respect it resets back to 100 respect so factions don't die, just like you can't actually kill anyone in this game.

Sometimes its just easier to mute them then own up to your own mistakes!!
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