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Forum Main>>Announcements>> Warning: Faction scamming laws
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MRSamurai
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 13:31:28
once you give someone access to your faction vault, you give him complete trust and power. the question of permission, taking without knowledge does not arise. there are no second layer of security. you give access to someone and that's it. he can do whatever he wants. whatever morally wrong thing he did he cannot accomplished it if he does not have that access to begin with. you trust the wrong person and you pay for it.

about the return of money. it is also morally wrong. what if the money have now involved in other legal transaction with other player. for example money was lost to other player thru game of poker or RR. you expect staff to take this legitimately won money from other player and give it back to you. it will create a chain of injustices. why should an innocent bystander be made to suffer for the fault of one guy who misplaced his trust?

Last Edited: Sun Jun 06, 2010 13:32:16
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Silje

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 13:32:36
By Belpho [192220]
By Chedburn [1]

We do not take any action against company scamming, why factions?


People other than the director can acess the company bank? I think not _

Hey, lets compare bacon and bananas because they both begin with B? No ched, just no


Hmmm Bacon and Bananas sounds like a win COMBO!!! Thanks for the idea
xD

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hornybabe
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 13:32:53
this aids scammers even more than it did before.
now noone willl be trusted with the faction bank.



valesh that must be so irritating
90bil thats alot of money

do you know who it was?


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1393602
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 13:34:27
By MRSamurai [209614]
once you give someone access to your faction vault, you give him complete trust and power. the question of permission, taking without knowledge does not arise. there are no second layer of security. you give access to someone and that's it. he can do whatever he wants. whatever morally wrong thing he did he cannot accomplished it if he does not have that access to begin with. you trust the wrong person and you pay for it.

about the return of money. it is also morally wrong. what if the money have now involved in other legal transaction with other player. for example money was lost to other player thru game of poker or RR. you expect staff to take this legitimately won money from other player and give it back to you. it will create a chain of injustices. why should an innocent bystander be made to suffer for the fault of one guy who misplaced his trust?


You actually got a good point there .. A co-leader automatically got access to the faction vault , but that was a controlable situation where he literally gave the member access to the faction vault.



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troy11556

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 13:34:42
By MRSamurai [209614]
once you give someone access to your faction vault, you give him complete trust and power. the question of permission, taking without knowledge does not arise. there are no second layer of security. you give access to someone and that's it. he can do whatever he wants. whatever morally wrong thing he did he cannot accomplished it if he does not have that access to begin with. you trust the wrong person and you pay for it.

about the return of money. it is also morally wrong. what if the money have now involved in other legal transaction with other player. for example money was lost to other player thru game of poker or RR. you expect staff to take this legitimately won money from other player and give it back to you. it will create a chain of injustices. why should an innocent bystander be made to suffer for the fault of one guy who misplaced his trust?


LOL ched makes the money in the game to return the money is easy just credit it to him. easy solution

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NewehAccount

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 13:36:13
By -BC-M16 [1002535]
By Wall-E [1445055]
By -BC-M16 [1002535]
By Wall-E [1445055]
hehe everyone knew that you would totally remove the rule


On a side note, anyone with over 1billion in there faction bank looking for a co-leader at the time of 12/06/2010 00:01?


How did every one know? Are we all psychic?

What I meant was, it was obvious after this they would totally remove it. I guess because they had like 5 hours of people talking about diffrent interpretations of the rule!


But we didn't all know this was happening.


I exaggerated -.-



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Busty
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 13:38:50
By Sandbox [1393602]
By troy11556 [995589]

By ste [610939]




No it doesn't.
All staff are capable of being professional when on duty.
He's allowed to be a human being too.[/quote

HE IS SPEAKING IN AN OFFICIAL THREAD. its not like he is in a thread in the any other discussion. he is in an official thread


Quote fail.

Anyway , in that case then he's a human being. Just because he've got a badge doesn't make him a robot.




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Voices

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 13:48:01
This update is absolutely f**king pathetic. Just takes one untrustworthy member and bam, you've now lost all your money, Seems like the protection being removed because staff just can't be f**ked anymore doing something about it. Seriously. worst update ever in tc.


You admins have let alot of people down with this shit you call an "update"



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MM83_IB6UB9

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 13:51:12
Funny thing is I see alot of people getting feded for voicing there opinions..... But yet no justice for scamming... faction scamming... wheres the rights now

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MM83_IB6UB9

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 13:53:29
not that I will but if I was to call you a d head mattyb beacause there is no justification I would get fedded yeah.. but yet simply if I was to say rob my faction... scam every new player id be right to do that lol....


Do I even need to continue

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Julatsa

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 13:55:28
So someone just abused a loophole and got away with it?

nice to know the rules are being enforced here on torn!

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rapid_riser

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 13:57:54
By Hobbie [443763]
It does become awkward when other people had their money removed.

It's because certain 'loopholes' or ways around current rules aren't considered when making rules. It's not that Chedburn has been particularly bad or not thought through things, it happens with real life laws too. The decisions that are made because of it, and deciding how much of a loophole is legal and how much is illegal is the issue.


Right, there is a wider issue here that Ched is trying to address.

Fedding all the muggers and giving Valesh the money back is great if you just want Valesh and everyone else in Fed next time they mug someone with illegal money on them.




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Sea
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 13:59:41
CHEDBURN, I THINK THAT YOU SHOULD JUST NOT BOTHER ENFORCING MULTI FEDDINGS ANYMORE EITHER. STAFF SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN TELL US STUPID IDIOTS TO STFU AND STOP WHINING....

BOUT SUMS UP THEIR JOBS AT THIS POINT...

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rapid_riser

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:03:18
By Sea [221876]
CHEDBURN, I THINK THAT YOU SHOULD JUST NOT BOTHER ENFORCING MULTI FEDDINGS ANYMORE EITHER. STAFF SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN TELL US STUPID IDIOTS TO STFU AND STOP WHINING....

BOUT SUMS UP THEIR JOBS AT THIS POINT...


LoL, dont get confused between staff and Mattyb's attitude


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AllaboutBrady

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:06:50
As the leader of my faction,That is why my co-leader is someone I know in real life and we are really good friends.The co-leader and anyone else who can get money out of the bank should be players you have complete trust in.Now this new rule sounds B.S. to me because it sounds like the staff here at torn is making the change so that it creates less work for them.Where I come from they call this being lazy.If you don't want to put in the work,then you shouldn't be on the staff then.

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1393602
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:06:54
By Julatsa [233932]
So someone just abused a loophole and got away with it?

nice to know the rules are being enforced here on torn!


Proof of loopholes being used ?
Don't underestimate , you wouldn't have done a better job as a staff yourself.


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troy11556

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:07:06
By Sea [221876]
CHEDBURN, I THINK THAT YOU SHOULD JUST NOT BOTHER ENFORCING MULTI FEDDINGS ANYMORE EITHER. STAFF SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN TELL US STUPID IDIOTS TO STFU AND STOP WHINING....

BOUT SUMS UP THEIR JOBS AT THIS POINT...


Its sad when i have to be cautious about what i say. LOL yes i have know people to voice their opinions and had their FORUME rights revoked for days and even had a few of them in FED for upsetting a moderator. BUT yet he allows people to scam in many manners. NOW The only safe place for people to store their money is taken away. TELL YOU WHAT Y dont CHED write into the game script allowing members to use the faction bank. Kinda like the regular bank and allow the faction to upgrade the interst in the faction bank. and the interst will be gaind by the bank. KINDA LIKE IN THE US WHERE $ FEDERAL BANKS DISH MONEY AND LOAN MONEY TO OTHER SMALLER BANKS. so smaller banks would be the faction bank and the interst would be set by the factions upgrade. 1) Allow the faction to gain interst determind by member count and 2 have the ability for the member to either donate the money or to use the bank.

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Philster
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:11:08
does anyone think that the price of SYS will go through the roof because of this?

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1188299
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:14:24
i hare it

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Silje

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:16:55
By AllaboutBrady [553248]
As the leader of my faction,That is why my co-leader is someone I know in real life and we are really good friends.The co-leader and anyone else who can get money out of the bank should be players you have complete trust in.Now this new rule sounds B.S. to me because it sounds like the staff here at torn is making the change so that it creates less work for them.Where I come from they call this being lazy.If you don't want to put in the work,then you shouldn't be on the staff then.


Probably the safest route you can pick

At least as of the 12th...


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1393602
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:20:20
By philster [18066]
does anyone think that the price of SYS will go through the roof because of this?


Possibly .


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Ultimate_Drake
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:25:40
Nice!!!HAHA!!!

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BillyTheKid

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:29:09
just take the ability to access faction vault away from co leader surely that is the better option:|

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Raewyn
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:33:25
Things sure have changed...


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Sea
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:33:47
It is my opinion that this information should be publicly available:

Originally posted by Valesh ID: 96818

Well, after today's drama... I hope that some of you can see where this is coming from.

I woke up this morning, to 300+ events of getting mugged. I try to talk to staff about it, since some player sent my cash to me, without permission. They said that there is nothing I can do about it, as the people broke no rules.

Its blatantly obvious to ALL of tc BUT the staff, that rules were broken. So what happens when I approach staff about the issues?

They say that they have already spoken to my friends about MY money that is gone. That they have nothign to say to me... How is it that I don't have a voice?

Staff can take what other people said, but not tell me whats happened with my own 90billion that is now gone.... gone to who you ask? Why one of their friends of course!

So Sifonjer paying JusticeR to give me all that money out of the faction was completely legit right? According to staff yes.

I call bullshit... I think staff should have dealt with this a whole lot differently, this thread will probably never see the light of day, just proving my point further.

Bottom up on this Convo.

2010-06-06
1:40:49 PM
Valesh says: Wow... amazing.
Bl0ndie says: Im sorry.
As you have been told in #help, by clansy, theres nothing else to discuss.


Valesh says: And we did....
Sifonjer probably paid JusticeR to do this... which is breaking the damn rules... and you guys arent even going to try and help..
Everythign this is evolving around is what other people have said to you guys,... nothing to do with me... yet im the one getting screwed..

Bl0ndie says: I am told, this happened to you the night before too, and you were told to check access to people.

Valesh says: The main person that mugged me, was mugging me 20 seconds after the cash was given to me, and nonstop till it was all gone... do you REALLY think that would make a difference?
And my friends were only trying to help. They didnt think staff in the channel would try to mug me too instead of help get the cash off of me,.

Bl0ndie says: YOUR friends came shouting in #help about you getting all that cash sent to you.
YOUr friends told everyone you you had 90 bil and was offline.
Im pretty sure half the people who mugged you did so because of that.

Valesh says: Thats bullshit thought Bl0ndie and you know it.
You are saying this 90b was my money, yet you talked with my friends about my money?
I dont see how that can make sense? I have apologized to Clans for what others did... but I did nothing personally... yet I suffer the consequences?

Bl0ndie says: it was discussed for 4 hours, with your friends in #help.
i know thats not the same, But, they got very abusive, specially to clansy.

Valesh says: I dont see how the case is closed when it was never opened
Noone has even discussed a single thing with me...

Bl0ndie says: No hun, im sorry.
there is nothing else that can be done.


How bout an IRC conversation from when I just logged in this morning? To find all these events...

Valesh: Sigh
[06:14am] Valesh: who can i talk to
[06:14am] WickedPrincess: no 1 Valesh
[06:14am] WickedPrincess: were sorry hun



Or how about this one that just happened. Leaving the room instead of discussing the matter with me like adults?

Valesh: When you get a few Clansy, will you message me please?
[3:32pm] Two left the chat room. (Ping timeout)
[3:34pm] Clansy: Valesh as you and I are friends I say this with as much respect as I can file a report Ive done my time in this channel over this topic for hours last night
[3:34pm] Valesh:
[3:34pm] Valesh: But we havent even spoken
[3:34pm] Valesh: how are you going to let others speak for me? When its my issue? That really sucks for me
[3:35pm] Clansy: I should have made them file one instead of trying to explain
[3:35pm] Clansy: I wont make that mistake twice
[3:35pm] Valesh: I wish you would have Clans...
[3:35pm] Valesh: Im really getting screwed here now, because of others.
[3:35pm] Valesh: We have yet to even speak
[3:35pm] Valesh: Yet its like Case Closed.
[3:36pm] Valesh: Instead of you and I resolving this..
[3:36pm] Valesh: I have gotten down to the bottom of this... and htink it needs to be looked at
[3:36pm] Ghost left the chat room. (Connection reset by peer)
[3:36pm] Ghost joined the chat room.
[3:37pm] Valesh: Give me achance at least?
[3:37pm] Clansy left the chat room.

how do you think this should be dealt with?



Oh, did I mention... the same staff that are working on my "case" While i am asleep are trying to mug me as well? Hot shit!

http://www.torn.com/attacklogs.php?ID=17049495

06/06/10
12:23:11 AM Bl0ndie attacked you and lost. [View]

06/06/10
12:24:47 AM Bl0ndie attacked you and lost. [View]

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2DIE

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:38:08
http://www.torn.com/forums.php?forumID=2&ID=10552473



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MM83_IB6UB9

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:39:45
Everyone should have the right to voice there opinion without the fear of being feded, forum banned or whatnot... If the case is that whenever you voice your opinion and you get feded forum banned... raise a hand for the staff they actually did something... Give em a gold star.... you care more about what's written in the forums than whats going on in Torn...

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Kraft

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:46:31
Upon reading Valesh's post, it is clear in my mind that any staff member disagreeing to return money to him deserves to be relieved from their function, and probably fedded for conspiracy.

I don't know Valesh, but he's being treated unfairly. This was CLEARLY faction theft, anyone not seeing it is blind and stupid.


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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:47:23
By Sea [221876]
It is my opinion that this information should be publicly available:

Originally posted by Valesh ID: 96818

Well, after today's drama... I hope that some of you can see where this is coming from.

I woke up this morning, to 300+ events of getting mugged. I try to talk to staff about it, since some player sent my cash to me, without permission. They said that there is nothing I can do about it, as the people broke no rules.

Its blatantly obvious to ALL of tc BUT the staff, that rules were broken. So what happens when I approach staff about the issues?

They say that they have already spoken to my friends about MY money that is gone. That they have nothign to say to me... How is it that I don't have a voice?

Staff can take what other people said, but not tell me whats happened with my own 90billion that is now gone.... gone to who you ask? Why one of their friends of course!

So Sifonjer paying JusticeR to give me all that money out of the faction was completely legit right? According to staff yes.

I call bullshit... I think staff should have dealt with this a whole lot differently, this thread will probably never see the light of day, just proving my point further.

Bottom up on this Convo.

2010-06-06
1:40:49 PM
Valesh says: Wow... amazing.
Bl0ndie says: Im sorry.
As you have been told in #help, by clansy, theres nothing else to discuss.


Valesh says: And we did....
Sifonjer probably paid JusticeR to do this... which is breaking the damn rules... and you guys arent even going to try and help..
Everythign this is evolving around is what other people have said to you guys,... nothing to do with me... yet im the one getting screwed..

Bl0ndie says: I am told, this happened to you the night before too, and you were told to check access to people.

Valesh says: The main person that mugged me, was mugging me 20 seconds after the cash was given to me, and nonstop till it was all gone... do you REALLY think that would make a difference?
And my friends were only trying to help. They didnt think staff in the channel would try to mug me too instead of help get the cash off of me,.

Bl0ndie says: YOUR friends came shouting in #help about you getting all that cash sent to you.
YOUr friends told everyone you you had 90 bil and was offline.
Im pretty sure half the people who mugged you did so because of that.

Valesh says: Thats bullshit thought Bl0ndie and you know it.
You are saying this 90b was my money, yet you talked with my friends about my money?
I dont see how that can make sense? I have apologized to Clans for what others did... but I did nothing personally... yet I suffer the consequences?

Bl0ndie says: it was discussed for 4 hours, with your friends in #help.
i know thats not the same, But, they got very abusive, specially to clansy.

Valesh says: I dont see how the case is closed when it was never opened
Noone has even discussed a single thing with me...

Bl0ndie says: No hun, im sorry.
there is nothing else that can be done.


How bout an IRC conversation from when I just logged in this morning? To find all these events...

Valesh: Sigh
[06:14am] Valesh: who can i talk to
[06:14am] WickedPrincess: no 1 Valesh
[06:14am] WickedPrincess: were sorry hun



Or how about this one that just happened. Leaving the room instead of discussing the matter with me like adults?

Valesh: When you get a few Clansy, will you message me please?
[3:32pm] Two left the chat room. (Ping timeout)
[3:34pm] Clansy: Valesh as you and I are friends I say this with as much respect as I can file a report Ive done my time in this channel over this topic for hours last night
[3:34pm] Valesh:
[3:34pm] Valesh: But we havent even spoken
[3:34pm] Valesh: how are you going to let others speak for me? When its my issue? That really sucks for me
[3:35pm] Clansy: I should have made them file one instead of trying to explain
[3:35pm] Clansy: I wont make that mistake twice
[3:35pm] Valesh: I wish you would have Clans...
[3:35pm] Valesh: Im really getting screwed here now, because of others.
[3:35pm] Valesh: We have yet to even speak
[3:35pm] Valesh: Yet its like Case Closed.
[3:36pm] Valesh: Instead of you and I resolving this..
[3:36pm] Valesh: I have gotten down to the bottom of this... and htink it needs to be looked at
[3:36pm] Ghost left the chat room. (Connection reset by peer)
[3:36pm] Ghost joined the chat room.
[3:37pm] Valesh: Give me achance at least?
[3:37pm] Clansy left the chat room.

how do you think this should be dealt with?



Oh, did I mention... the same staff that are working on my "case" While i am asleep are trying to mug me as well? Hot shit!

http://www.torn.com/attacklogs.php?ID=17049495

06/06/10
12:23:11 AM Bl0ndie attacked you and lost. [View]

06/06/10
12:24:47 AM Bl0ndie attacked you and lost. [View]


+1.

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MM83_IB6UB9

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 14:48:43
Thats hard up even the staff mugged him... see how the fk can people be free to voice there opinions now.. even staff was in on it maybe not the scam but still it was over IRC if staff knew this was happening why wasnt his money taken... and put somewhere safe... this is on your hands... thats rude that you guys even tried to attack him... you are the staff of this game... your meant to enforce the rules not break em in a unbreakable way you guys knew no rules were being broken so you let it slide... I now see why faction vault scamming is gonna be legal...



Forum Main>>Announcements>> Warning: Faction scamming laws
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