Don't hold your breath. I like to see it as a bounty. If what you said was true , then it'd be like this :
JusticeR took money from faction bank , which didn't belong to him , nor had premission to do so. However he returned your cash , so he's out of troubles.
Then perhaps he made a verbal bounty , for someone to mug you ..
It's simply your own fault.
Of all the places you could've stored your cash , you chose an aggressive faction , with more than one can access the vault.
Sandbox don't be a a troll, he didn't do anything wrong and you are just jealous.
In your own words he took money from the faction bank? Theft.
He returned it? No he didn't put it back where it come from, he sent it to a player who was offline so it could be stolen through muggings, regardless of if it was Valesh or not he was trying to get around the rules.
This thread is full of haters, jealous bitches and retards that don't want to admit that it is faction theft.
Your 1.3 million ID and now look at his ID, he worked hard for his shit and it wasnt "scammed" it was stolen with a plot that breaks Torn's rules.
By 2DIE [424413]
Sandbox don't be a a troll, he didn't do anything wrong and you are just jealous.
In your own words he took money from the faction bank? Theft.
He returned it? No he didn't put it back where it come from, he sent it to a player who was offline so it could be stolen through muggings, regardless of if it was Valesh or not he was trying to get around the rules.
This thread is full of haters, jealous bitches and retards that don't want to admit that it is faction theft.
Your 1.3 million ID and now look at his ID, he worked hard for his shit and it wasnt "scammed" it was stolen with a plot that breaks Torn's rules.
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This sucks and is truly sad. My first TC hubby was given 999 Federal for this right after scamming was supposed to be legal - months ago............ now it is legal?.............so now, can he rejoin the game?? Are all his assets lost?? there are too many changes going on!!
Leader: JusticeR
Co-Leader: None selected
Members: 1
Respect: 250
Rank: 1
Best chain: 0 attacks
Status: Peaceful
War mode: None
bring on the wars i see a solution to his actions
this update has serious pitfalls i hope things change more than just this
A drunk had been at a pub all night. At last call, the drunk stood up to leave and fell flat on his face. He tried to stand one more time, to the same result.
He figured he'd crawl outside to get some fresh air, since maybe that would sober him up
By 2DIE [424413]
Sandbox don't be a a troll, he didn't do anything wrong and you are just jealous.
In your own words he took money from the faction bank? Theft.
He returned it? No he didn't put it back where it come from, he sent it to a player who was offline so it could be stolen through muggings, regardless of if it was Valesh or not he was trying to get around the rules.
This thread is full of haters, jealous bitches and retards that don't want to admit that it is faction theft.
Your 1.3 million ID and now look at his ID, he worked hard for his shit and it wasnt "scammed" it was stolen with a plot that breaks Torn's rules.
Why would I envy someone who lost $90billion ?
I'd rather envy someone who got $90billion , than someone who don't.
Besides , fine put JusticeR in federal jail for another 6 days if that will release your boner.
But what good does it make then ? The money wont be returned since it was mugged , which is allowed.
Might be shocking to you , but there's actually a mug option when you finish someone , believe it or not.
Click the button , and you get some cash. Voila.
By MickRi [482609]
Trust on torn shouldnt be easy to gain , and you should only trust your TOP TOP TOP best friends
The same is true of TC staff and the owner.
Sadly, I wouldn't trust a single one of them anymore. They've shown their true colors, and sometimes you lessons have to be learned the hard way.
They don't care about anybody but themselves.
Sorry about your faction money Belch. I do sympathise with you about what happened.
The problem with enforcing faction theft rules is the issue of intent. I could (if I had access) withdraw a ton of money from our faction to sink into some kind of investment. Some factions would be fine with me doing that. Trusting me to make such a descion since I was given access. Other factions would be like, "Hey, who said you could make that kind of investment". If I returned the money in 10 minutes with 10% profit I doubt there would be many complaints from any of the members, quite the contrary.
What if the player I made the investment with scammed me? Am I now involved in faction theft? Of course not. But if I knew the player intended to scam then I would be, I could even have convinced all the faction the investment was a good idea before going along with it. Trying to proove this either way is quite impossible even with game logs because they only show what players do and not their intent.
In your case, whoever game the money away has a lot to answer for. Perhaps they had a grudge against Valesh and the faction.
Whoever did the muggings is not so clear cut. Anyone could have told the muggers Valesh had all this money on him, most likely someone from the faction, maybe even someone who had been paid to report on such an event as this is quite common. Even if it was the person who gave out the money, the mugger would not necessarily know why Valesh had so much money on them. A quick mug would be one way to check if they were being told the truth in the first place.
When a mugger finds rich victims they pay for revives to mug them as many times as they can before the victim comes back online. Of course if the mugger knew the money was obtained in an illgal manner and was trying to avoid a simple [Send cash] its a different matter. Like my example above, trying to figure out which case this is may not be trivial. All the big game-rule abiding muggers could be easily Fed jailed over a single case such as this if we naively assume they are guilty of collaberation with the game-rule breaker.
i can see that most of the people dont like this update and i have to say im one of them
but on the other hand those who get their money stolen from the faction probably deserve that cos it was your bad choice when you placed someone you cant really trust as a co-leader or a manager that can access the money
end of the day it just proves how stupid some people really are , no one is denying the fact that he shouldnt of been giving access fair enough that was a mistake , fact is according to the terms and rules that torn has this is an offence and yet staff still persist in saying they cant do anything .
its in black and white for everyone to say , but once again a blind eye is turned !
sandbox you have Issues mate... Thats out right rude... He gave him money from his faction without authority.. then got him mugged which is allowed... but its wrong and was a scam to begin with... it was planned How would you like to be rid of 90bill from unjustified muggings??? Think about it.. and watch what you say you might find yourself on the bounties for awhile.. not by me but some other high lvl who hates your mouth...This whole outcome is wrong
Ched admitted a loophole existed, he made the decision that faction theft was no longer illegal and has set a deadline.
There is a precedent...........when he made general scamming legal, ANYONE caught scamming before the prescribed date was GUILTY and punished according to the old rules.
There can be no difference in this case or credibility is totally lost.
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I am a sexual insomniac. I can only sleep in snatches.
By madman83 [1399478]
sandbox you have Issues mate... Thats out right rude... He gave him money from his faction without authority.. then got him mugged which is allowed... but its wrong and was a scam to begin with... it was planned How would you like to be rid of 90bill from unjustified muggings??? Think about it.. and watch what you say you might find yourself on the bounties for awhile.. not by me but some other high lvl who hates your mouth...This whole outcome is wrong
Scamming is legal.
And Valesh deserved it for what he've done in his past. He thought he could get away with helpoing a scammer , this is what karma serves him.
Whatever "seems" obvious is not enough. There must be evidence.
If staff cannot find evidence then they have to threat users by justice , and not take action. Staff are forced to do so , it's not a choice they can make.
By MickRi [482609]
Trust on torn shouldnt be easy to gain , and you should only trust your TOP TOP TOP best friends
The same is true of TC staff and the owner.
Sadly, I wouldn't trust a single one of them anymore. They've shown their true colors, and sometimes you lessons have to be learned the hard way.
They don't care about anybody but themselves.
Sorry about your faction money Belch. I do sympathise with you about what happened.
The problem with enforcing faction theft rules is the issue of intent. I could (if I had access) withdraw a ton of money from our faction to sink into some kind of investment. Some factions would be fine with me doing that. Trusting me to make such a descion since I was given access. Other factions would be like, "Hey, who said you could make that kind of investment". If I returned the money in 10 minutes with 10% profit I doubt there would be many complaints from any of the members, quite the contrary.
What if the player I made the investment with scammed me? Am I now involved in faction theft? Of course not. But if I knew the player intended to scam then I would be, I could even have convinced all the faction the investment was a good idea before going along with it. Trying to proove this either way is quite impossible even with game logs because they only show what players do and not their intent.
In your case, whoever game the money away has a lot to answer for. Perhaps they had a grudge against Valesh and the faction.
Whoever did the muggings is not so clear cut. Anyone could have told the muggers Valesh had all this money on him, most likely someone from the faction, maybe even someone who had been paid to report on such an event as this is quite common. Even if it was the person who gave out the money, the mugger would not necessarily know why Valesh had so much money on them. A quick mug would be one way to check if they were being told the truth in the first place.
1) Valesh didn't ask for his money to be sent to him. That was done without his permission, request or knowledge.
2) Who reported that Valesh was given the money? Check the timing. Is that time enough for a 3rd person? Which faction members were online at that time? I guess that they used irc, but has the staff checked their mail? Did they have any communication and/or interaction at all the previous days?
Is there any information at which point members of the staff became complicit in the mugging? Do the logs show whether it was before or after help was requested?
You know ched i normally dont talk much on issue. BUT THIS is a very bad move. The faction is the last safe place that anyone has in TORN. and by removing this you are allowing the scammers to OWN torn. I can understand that this will take time away from your staff but if you are worried about that hire staff thats sole job is to deal with the scamming issue.
HONESTLY CHED IF YOU WANT TO JUST ROLL OVER AND LET THE SCAMMERS SC**W THE REST OF US I SAY YOU NEED TO GET A BACKBONE.
This is the worse update i have seen you make and i have been playing for some time now. I have an idea y dont you allow any and everyone in the game access to every faction bank if you are going to make this change. Heck even those not in the faction should have access to other faction banks. It would be just as fair as this one.
By Quixote [868458]
Is there any information at which point members of the staff became complicit in the mugging? Do the logs show whether it was before or after help was requested?
I'm guessing that there were no conversation between the co-leader and the mugger , which made it hard for staff to judge it.
Probably there were a convo made outside torn , but whatever cannot be proven , cannot continue.
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