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Forum Main>>Announcements>> Warning: Faction scamming laws
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1393602
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:18:44
By ste [610939]
yer i did i was wel pissed off at the time , but i myself didnt really no the ful story at the time so ill admit i blew it a bit out of proportion , but still i never held no grudge and if anything valesh dos more on this game for other players then anyone i no so why would he deserve this ?


Probably because he helped you to scam people in the past ?
You're in his faction .. Perhaps some of the money were yours too , which makes you burst in anger. So perhaps you're making same mistake again.


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Mattyb

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:19:20
By ste [610939]
yer i did i was wel pissed off at the time , but i myself didnt really no the ful story at the time so ill admit i blew it a bit out of proportion , but still i never held no grudge and if anything valesh dos more on this game for other players then anyone i no so why would he deserve this ?


No you quit didnt you? Impossible to hold a grudge if you dont play anymore

I have no say in what happens in this case, so my view has nothing to do with any eventual action being taken. Never trust anyone in an online game, there are too many small kids and people with a lack of backbone!

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1393602
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:20:35
By MattyB [207347]
Never trust anyone in an online game,


Simple as it is.




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Aaftab123
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:26:33
yeah nice and simple thats good

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Hobbie

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:26:35
By Eliott [493481]
Faction banks are for faction cash. Somewhere to keep money used to buy upgrades, meds, drugs and items for the faction.

It is not meant to be a place to store member's cash.

If you want to keep your cash safe then buy points or get a vault.

Dont claim the system is broken just because you are using it wrong.


I agree that faction banks aren't exactly meant for personal cash, but at a certain point - where are we meant to keep it?
Vaults only hold 500m, if I've got all the reasonable stock benefits and don't have a company. You could buy lots of points, but it'd take ages to sell them all - and I don't see that points were implemented to store billions of cash in.

In real life, if people were to store anything in a faction/gang building, stealing it would result in the rest of the group attempting to kill no doubt. Quite a good deterrant. Bounties and hospings on the other hand, aren't.

We've all seen the high-profile players go bad, the most trustworthy ones too. It's not just people putting their co-leaders as randomers, it's people they've known and trusted (and rightly so). Though, at the end of the day it's an anonymous text-based game. Sadly people don't always seem to understand that there is a person at the end of it.

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ste

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:27:44
no no money was mine not a penny im just stating a fact that someone that helps people as much as valesh has doesnt deserve this

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HashBrick

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:29:12
hmm from all these updates its just seems like ched and staff are getting lazy. Come on i thought it was staffs job to enforce the rules. Now ched just keeps getting rid of the rules slowly. If staff dont want to do some work than get some who do as stated by others staff is a voluntary choice if you aint up for the work dont do it.

On another note krak your posts just seem to serve the purpose to rouse everyone up and as such are just gets old. Sure you say pick people who you trust like others said you can be betrayed by someone u think u can trust....this update i think just shows cheds lazyness

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Staying_Solo

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:30:01
Oh dear, so when you going to relax the rules on anyone who finds a way to transfer stats or items illegally from one person to another.

You may as well, then the real fun will begin.

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DrSomeone
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:37:52
If the staff are going to be using their time better elsewhere then this is a fair update.
So ched, what are the staff going to be doing instead hm?

http://www.torn.com/forums.php?forumID=13&ID=13507914
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DJ__

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:37:58
A poor update in my opinion. Rated -

Very sad what happened to Valesh, just shows you cant really trust anyone.

I read an idea of people not being able to withdraw more than they have donated. This needs to happen!

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bodaa
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:37:59
By MattyB [207347]
By ste [610939]
yer i did i was wel pissed off at the time , but i myself didnt really no the ful story at the time so ill admit i blew it a bit out of proportion , but still i never held no grudge and if anything valesh dos more on this game for other players then anyone i no so why would he deserve this ?


No you quit didnt you? Impossible to hold a grudge if you dont play anymore

I have no say in what happens in this case, so my view has nothing to do with any eventual action being taken. Never trust anyone in an online game, there are too many small kids and people with a lack of backbone!


ched cant trust his staffs there are small kids as staff too with lack of backbone, like matty says never trust anyone .... so why keep people as staff just remove them too

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DarkManV

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:38:45
By Valesh [96818]
By 2DIE [424413]
By -rob- [65426]
JusticeR should definitely be fedded as he stole from the faction, but I dunno about Sif.

He just used his energy to take advantage of someone else's crime. Can you be fedded for taking advantage of someone else's crime?



By Valesh [96818]
Exactly 23 seconds after the cash was given out, I was mugged, until that 90billion turned into 13million...

05/06/10
11:58:35 PM Valesh was given $90,650,000,000 from the Faction
05/06/10
11:58:58 PM Someone mugged Valesh
05/06/10
11:59:42 PM Someone mugged Valesh


Its planned, didn't randomly happen to attack 23 seconds later. They were in it together and I am sure not only them. Not to mention revives , refills, FHC's, vico, if anything they are in it together and both knew well where the money come from and how it got there.


Agreed... this was obviously set up to take advantage of said loophole, which if I'm not mistaken is against the rules.

So the person who sent the money should be in fed, the attacker who set it up should be in fed, and the reviver who set it up should be in fed as he is in coohoots with the attacker.

Staff?


That is perfectly obvious. ...and the money returned. Has it been resolved yet?
I 'm quite surprised that they thought that they wouldn't get into trouble for that.

Making faction theft legal with the faction bank being as it is now is a bad solution. Better give access to anyone, but limit the amount that they can take out to what they have put in.

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Robb-Stark

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:39:26
By NO_Revive [25574]
Oh dear, so when you going to relax the rules on anyone who finds a way to transfer stats or items illegally from one person to another.

You may as well, then the real fun will begin.


thats next lol but look out of all this we still cant cover players if they all want there cash at once we still short

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MrMickRi

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:43:43
By Valesh [96818]
So since it starts on the 12th... it was illegal what happened today and will be dealt with right?


Here is why this can't be allowed to happen


Theft from faction bank/armoury
Taking cash/points/items in a faction without the leaders approval, gaining leadership under false pretenses and refusing to return control of the faction to the rightful leader etc.


I was told by a couple secretaries, that this was not a faction theft. The reason behind this is that said player sent me 90billion of my own money while I was sleeping. Since he had access to the faction bank (with his 5bil in the faction) it was ok for him to send me my 90billion while I was sleeping, while he had muggers ready.

The point here is this. I did NOT give him permission to touch MY money in the faction. By giving me my money, he was putting his hands on my money, not his. Thus stealing my money from the faction to send to me. This was not his to do so with, especially without my permission. As said in the above rule, Theft from Faction Bank/Amoury.

Now lets throw another point out there. Since I didn't send the money to myself, who is to say that that money was mine to begin with that he sent?? Perhaps it was the factions cash, not mine? Thus JusticeR just stole 90b from the Affliction faction, and sent it to me (Valesh). Thus I should still have 90billion in the faction.. as it wasn't my money that was sent to me at all, as I didn't send it nor authorize that I wanted MY... so there is no ownership of that money, besides to say that it is from the Affliction faction, not JusticeRs money... that we know for sure. So he did steal 85billion from the faction to send to me (Valesh). Thus JusticeR should be fedded for faction theft, as it wasn't his money, nor mine that he sent me.. but money that was the factions.


Game Bug Abuse
Failing to report a fluke/loophole in the game and taking advantage of it is forbidden.


This brings me to my third and almostfinal point. It is obvious that this was set up by said player who mugged me first (Sifonjer) and said player who sent me the cash (JusticeR). Exactly 23 seconds after the cash was given out, I was mugged, until that 90billion turned into 13million, all the while I am sleeping. So since this is a gray area, with no set code of rules, it is obviously a loophole that has been exploited. See rule here... as they knew that staff would say that there is nothing they can do about it.

Thus, both of them should be fedded.

05/06/10
11:58:35 PM Valesh was given $90,650,000,000 from the Faction.
And of course the muggings go on until there is nothing left to be mugged.


05/06/10
11:58:58 PM Someone mugged Valesh
05/06/10
11:59:42 PM Someone mugged Valesh

My final point, is this. By allowing this to happen, staff, admin and rule setters are allowing this to be a precedent that is being set... making this OK to happen to everyone. Is this really a rule you want to be ok with? Not being able to trust anyone with access to the faction? Obviously multiple rules have been broken here, by multiple players that should punished. By not punishing them, and allowing this to happen, this is only going to get worse and happen more often.



What do u think torn is all about man

Ive been in situations like this 24/7 .//

Trust on torn shouldnt be easy to gain , and you should only trust your TOP TOP TOP best friends


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gaz74
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:44:51
rated -
if you are doing this ched why not make a large vault able to hold infinite cash so people dont need to use factions for banking
either that or let people bank more

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Valesh_NoBust
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:45:40
Nothing has been resolved.

Still waiting.

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Collete

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:47:19
When I joined my faction I gave my faction leader some simple advice only give people access to the vault if you could lay your hands on them in real life


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DarkManV

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:50:49
By MickRi [482609]
By Valesh [96818]
So since it starts on the 12th... it was illegal what happened today and will be dealt with right?


Here is why this can't be allowed to happen


Theft from faction bank/armoury
Taking cash/points/items in a faction without the leaders approval, gaining leadership under false pretenses and refusing to return control of the faction to the rightful leader etc.


I was told by a couple secretaries, that this was not a faction theft. The reason behind this is that said player sent me 90billion of my own money while I was sleeping. Since he had access to the faction bank (with his 5bil in the faction) it was ok for him to send me my 90billion while I was sleeping, while he had muggers ready.

The point here is this. I did NOT give him permission to touch MY money in the faction. By giving me my money, he was putting his hands on my money, not his. Thus stealing my money from the faction to send to me. This was not his to do so with, especially without my permission. As said in the above rule, Theft from Faction Bank/Amoury.

Now lets throw another point out there. Since I didn't send the money to myself, who is to say that that money was mine to begin with that he sent?? Perhaps it was the factions cash, not mine? Thus JusticeR just stole 90b from the Affliction faction, and sent it to me (Valesh). Thus I should still have 90billion in the faction.. as it wasn't my money that was sent to me at all, as I didn't send it nor authorize that I wanted MY... so there is no ownership of that money, besides to say that it is from the Affliction faction, not JusticeRs money... that we know for sure. So he did steal 85billion from the faction to send to me (Valesh). Thus JusticeR should be fedded for faction theft, as it wasn't his money, nor mine that he sent me.. but money that was the factions.


Game Bug Abuse
Failing to report a fluke/loophole in the game and taking advantage of it is forbidden.


This brings me to my third and almostfinal point. It is obvious that this was set up by said player who mugged me first (Sifonjer) and said player who sent me the cash (JusticeR). Exactly 23 seconds after the cash was given out, I was mugged, until that 90billion turned into 13million, all the while I am sleeping. So since this is a gray area, with no set code of rules, it is obviously a loophole that has been exploited. See rule here... as they knew that staff would say that there is nothing they can do about it.

Thus, both of them should be fedded.

05/06/10
11:58:35 PM Valesh was given $90,650,000,000 from the Faction.
And of course the muggings go on until there is nothing left to be mugged.


05/06/10
11:58:58 PM Someone mugged Valesh
05/06/10
11:59:42 PM Someone mugged Valesh

My final point, is this. By allowing this to happen, staff, admin and rule setters are allowing this to be a precedent that is being set... making this OK to happen to everyone. Is this really a rule you want to be ok with? Not being able to trust anyone with access to the faction? Obviously multiple rules have been broken here, by multiple players that should punished. By not punishing them, and allowing this to happen, this is only going to get worse and happen more often.



What do u think torn is all about man

Ive been in situations like this 24/7 .//

Trust on torn shouldnt be easy to gain , and you should only trust your TOP TOP TOP best friends


That is not the point in this case. It would be about trust if he had lent them his money, but he didn't. They stole it in a way that broke more than one rule. The point is that they broke the rules

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Adam_Lambert

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:52:02
too bad

very bad for who have a lot a lot of money

of course not me

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Belch

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:53:40
By MickRi [482609]
Trust on torn shouldnt be easy to gain , and you should only trust your TOP TOP TOP best friends


The same is true of TC staff and the owner.

Sadly, I wouldn't trust a single one of them anymore. They've shown their true colors, and sometimes you lessons have to be learned the hard way.

They don't care about anybody but themselves.

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DarkManV

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:54:29
By Valesh [96818]
Nothing has been resolved.

Still waiting.


On a light sidenote, I expect a small reward for supporting you, when you get your money back


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Energy

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:55:22
This is the worst update ever!!!!

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Passie

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:56:08
Does this mean our vaults will be changed to store unlimited amounts of cash ?

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rapid_riser

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:58:21
By ste [610939]
lets just cut the bullshit shall we the rules clearly state what happened was completely wrong and illegal . therefor anyone taking part in the muggings , taking of faction cash should be fedded and all money should be returned !!!

FACT


Like if I told you xyz has a ton of cash on him and we are all mugging him you wouldn't join in "innocently" and fair by game rules?

Then you popped a vicodin and used all your FHC coupons on the muggings just for Ched to come along and take all the money off you?

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Click here to browse my bazaar.
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Belch

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:59:39
By -Passie- [936578]
Does this mean our vaults will be changed to store unlimited amounts of cash ?


No. It means that staff will no longer follow or police the rules of the game they are staff of.

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Garfield

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:00:46
By Htr [89581]
You could make that someone who donaded money for safe-keeping couldn't withdraw more than he donated to a faction (except leader and co-leader).


thats a good idea...

A drunk had been at a pub all night. At last call, the drunk stood up to leave and fell flat on his face. He tried to stand one more time, to the same result.




He figured he'd crawl outside to get some fresh air, since maybe that would sober him up
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AL-Azhar
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:01:27
STAFFS ARE ALL LAZY........80% OF FACTIONS WONT HAVE CO LEADER IN THEIR FACTION AFTER THIS UPDATE IF THEY USE FACTION BANK................................WE NEED SOME PRIVATE BANKING IN FACTION WITH OUR KEYS IN OUR POCKET FOR EVERY MEMBERS AFTER THIS UPDATE///....

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MM83_IB6UB9

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:01:30
I think this is wrong.. It seems to me that no one cares what happens in this game.... soon it will be legal to scam with multi's... HELL why not just make it legal to have a multi you guys allow everything else thats wrong... This is sad that there is no rules any justification at all now... Ched you really need to take control of this matter... My simpathy goes out to Valesh [96818]... Its not about trust.. Its About having solid rules in this game... If you scam steal or whatnot thats rude and should be dealt with accordingly... Not just swept to the side and covered up... People want to enjoy this game.. And Ched mate no one will want to DONATE if there money there DONATING for isnt safe... Might as well change the games name to TORN"ANARCHY"...

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AL-Azhar
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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:04:34
90 BILLION WAS SCAMMED IN AFFLICTION YESTERDAY....THIS GAME IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE INSECURE WITH THIOSE UPDATE WHERE STAFF WERE SUPPOSED TO BE HERE TO HELP US AND FIND THE ONE GUILTY...THEY ARE DOING ALL THE OPPOSITE.....

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Rca

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Posted on Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:06:47
By Master3z [969024]
90 BILLION WAS SCAMMED IN AFFLICTION YESTERDAY....THIS GAME IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE INSECURE WITH THIOSE UPDATE WHERE STAFF WERE SUPPOSED TO BE HERE TO HELP US AND FIND THE ONE GUILTY...THEY ARE DOING ALL THE OPPOSITE.....

lol at you.


Mein Fhrer Chedburn.
Forum Main>>Announcements>> Warning: Faction scamming laws
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