At the same time that people from Peaceful Factions are being shoehorned into Aggressive Factions or no faction at all, Chedburn decides to make Faction Scamming legal.
Imagine you're currently in a Peaceful Faction and have so much money you keep a great deal of money in the Faction Bank? Once the Peaceful Faction status protection is removed from your faction, you have to hope your Faction 'becomes' viable as an Aggressive Faction. If your Faction fails as an Aggressive Faction, you must either entirely invest in stock, and/or property, and/or items, and/or points, or risk putting the majority of your nest egg into trust with people you're likely to barely know.
Further imagine it becomes practice for Aggressive Factions to to simply 'liberate' the banked monies of the many new formerly Peaceful Faction 'foundlings' the change to Aggressive-only Faction is likely to engender. This could easily be seen as giving lazy, cowardly peaceniks their proper and long-overdue comeuppance. With this recent blessing from Torn City administration to rob other faction players blind, will there really be much the typical formerly Peaceful Faction member can do about it if his/her new-found Aggressive Faction decides to rob him/her of every dollar banked?
The outlook for the Game has become considerably more GRIM. Safeguards are being removed at precisely the time that they are needed the MOST. To me, it's all taking on the appearance of a diabolical wealth-removal/transference scheme.
By BC-AliH [857046]
"We do not take any action against company scamming, why factions?"
i wasnt aware anyone other than the director of a company had access to anything, so how can you compare the two?
^^^
What he ment was company scams like where a person mails the director and states that they can make the company 5 stars in just a few minutes and then they take the company "yes there are players that fall for this" and the ones that offer to advertise and then wont give the company back ect ect ect.
By BC-AliH [857046]
"We do not take any action against company scamming, why factions?"
i wasnt aware anyone other than the director of a company had access to anything, so how can you compare the two?
^^^
What he ment was company scams like where a person mails the director and states that they can make the company 5 stars in just a few minutes and then they take the company "yes there are players that fall for this" and the ones that offer to advertise and then wont give the company back ect ect ect.
No not really it is still the owner/leader giving access to fund's or the company and getting nailed. All goes back to being careful about who you give access to funds or who you give director to for whatever reason and expect to have it giving back.
you can say it's the same all you want but it is easy to run a company on your own, so you need to trust less people. It is nearly impossible to run an aggressive faction on your own, especially if in the new system wars break out all the time. There is no way to protect your people 24 hours a day with 1 person.
apples and oranges, like they said.
so, I can successfully run a company with very little risk and find a friend for when I'm away for a few days. But a faction, first of all to have someone available to dole out cash 24/7 I would need to trust someone half a world away, with opposite schedules, which means I actually am less likely to know them that well.
anywho, it's a weird change, and I hope safeguards are being looked at like some of the ideas in this thread.
Im sorry but i see no difference at all between giving someone director in your company for what ever the reason and them scamming you and not giving it back or giving said friend access to your faction funds and them scamming it from you.
I will agree to less risk with company because of stocks to help with the advert part and that lowers the possibility of having to give up director to another player apart from going on a holiday. A scammer is a scammer and a scam is a scam. And the actions of the owner/leader giving director or access is really the only way that the scams can fall thru and work to start with.
but you agree that I can successfully run my company solo and agree that is not true of a successful faction?
if I trusted no one, other than a few days of missed trains, it runs fine under one person. I cannot see that being the case with any HoF Faction, the ability to run it all on one's own. So you HAVE to trust someone to have a chance at the big leagues, so in this new system you HAVE to open yourself to possible scammers to succeed.
edit:
I don't think there is any other way of getting head in this game ( market, stock market, trades, etc) that doesn't have some level of safeguard. It just seems fair that with scamming legal a level of safeguard should be put into action. That's all I mean, and would like to know if anything is in the works.
By theSilence [387023]
At the same time that people from Peaceful Factions are being shoehorned into Aggressive Factions or no faction at all, Chedburn decides to make Faction Scamming legal.
Imagine you're currently in a Peaceful Faction and have so much money you keep a great deal of money in the Faction Bank? Once the Peaceful Faction status protection is removed from your faction, you have to hope your Faction 'becomes' viable as an Aggressive Faction. If your Faction fails as an Aggressive Faction, you must either entirely invest in stock, and/or property, and/or items, and/or points, or risk putting the majority of your nest egg into trust with people you're likely to barely know.
Further imagine it becomes practice for Aggressive Factions to to simply 'liberate' the banked monies of the many new formerly Peaceful Faction 'foundlings' the change to Aggressive-only Faction is likely to engender. This could easily be seen as giving lazy, cowardly peaceniks their proper and long-overdue comeuppance. With this recent blessing from Torn City administration to rob other faction players blind, will there really be much the typical formerly Peaceful Faction member can do about it if his/her new-found Aggressive Faction decides to rob him/her of every dollar banked?
The outlook for the Game has become considerably more GRIM. Safeguards are being removed at precisely the time that they are needed the MOST. To me, it's all taking on the appearance of a diabolical wealth-removal/transference scheme.
By g_ho [1261819]
but you agree that I can successfully run my company solo and agree that is not true of a successful faction?
if I trusted no one, other than a few days of missed trains, it runs fine under one person. I cannot see that being the case with any HoF Faction, the ability to run it all on one's own. So you HAVE to trust someone to have a chance at the big leagues, so in this new system you HAVE to open yourself to possible scammers to succeed.
What about the player that cant afford the stocks for free advertising? What about faction leaders in w/e type faction that has players join then said player donates cash and the leader keeps it? There is alot more avenues you can add or think about other than just hof factions that are aggressive and trying to keep rollin on. And tbh im not trying to debate this. I merely responded to another player response about the company director having the only access to company funds so how can it really be scammed thus i gave other examples of how some of the scammers are going about scamming players out of their companies.
okay, wrong place to debate, I understand, thank you.
but not being able to afford free advertising isn't a scam. I am only saying that to be a successful faction now you have very little option but to open yourself to scamming, unlike any other avenue in Torn. Not just HoF, but anyone who wants to grow a large and active faction. So we will agree to disagree
By Ninos [552179]
g_ho, you're spot on everything you say. It doesn't take a genius to work out what you're saying is true.
The staff are just trying to save what little face they have left.
Sadly, you have no clue what your talking about. I think her and I are both intelligent enough people to know exactly what the other is talking about. I have never once said anything she has stated wasnt true nor have i disagreed with everything she has said.
you give someone access to something, there is always a possibility they will run off with it. Torn City shouldn't be a place where you nicely store your money and it's safe for ever. People have to earn your trust, you have to earn their trust and you have to decide who to trust. In my opinion this change is realistic. You don't go and entrust millions to someone you've known for a while. As long as this change is true for everyone it's fair'ish. Although this change effects richer ppl more, which means the rich are the ones who have to look out.
Although ppl should still have the option to stay peacefull, but want to go agressive due to the incentives. This way ppl don't have to be forced to trust others.
By Ninos [552179]
g_ho, you're spot on everything you say. It doesn't take a genius to work out what you're saying is true.
The staff are just trying to save what little face they have left.
Sadly, you have no clue what your talking about. I think her and I are both intelligent enough people to know exactly what the other is talking about. I have never once said anything she has stated wasnt true nor have i disagreed with everything she has said.
and nor do I think that the rule change is a bad one - if some level of protection - like some mentioned in this thread - are instated. As Fr0sty said, there are a million ways to get scammed, but usually they are buyer-beware situations. I just don't think factions should be that way. It's not about staff saving face; he and I were just in a conversation
Ok i have to chime in here. I'm 50/50 on this. The stupid people that run factions and give multiple people access to the bank are the ones that are messing this up for everyone. Then you have the morons that I'm sure report having 100k stolen. There could be countless staff members and they would still be hard pressed to sort all the complaints. I think there should be protection from your co-leader stealing from the faction, but not anyone else. If you are stupid enough to give a lot of people access then you should get robbed. Like i said tho, I do think co-leaders scamming should be illegal and protected against. It wouldn't be nearly as difficult for staff to enforce that as it is for them to enforce it all.
pretty sad how they just "drop the ball" because its "too much work" to do f**king pathetic first people are aloud to scam other people and hack their account now Companys are getting nailed and so are factions well maybe if they f**king grew a pair and stoped letting people scam in the first place they wouldn't have this whole f**ked circle in the first place this games gone to shit since they've aloud scammers into it
so maybe this has already been said... but why cant they just give leader control of whether or not the co-leader can access the bank? put a daily limit on co-leader taking money out? something like that?....
I believe I understand why the staff have chosen to go they way they have, but I also agree with many of the users that this will determinately affect the game. As in any social game, it is only fun when you meet people that you trust and respect. Unfortunately there are always losers out there who like ruining things for others, without the protection we were previously afforded people may begin to trust people less and therefore the social interactions will not be as fun. Is there a posible solution? who knows, but with this many users perhaps we can think of one.
For example: we need more things like OC's right? (course we do!) well my idea is not quite like your standard OC, but why not have factions offer a protection service.
individual people or entire factions can choose the help of a larger faction to protect their money (and items?). Basically a high level faction offers the ability for other people to store their cash and items with them. The faction has to buy a new room, i.e. a deposit type room and the amount of respect they gain depends on how many people choose to accept their service. ONLY the leader has the ability to steal the money or items if they choose too, BUT at the cost of losing 90% of their respect.
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