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Forum Main>>Announcements>> Big faction change - Proposal
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-Cindy-
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Posted on Tue May 25, 2010 18:02:41
By Tebbs [5]
By DCLXVI [460509]
I hope this system will put an end to that ridiculous financial extortion.


Not a chance...

But Version 6 or 7 or 8 may do.. they are due within the next 2 years, when this version of Factions crashes and burnsssssss



I am an optimist but I can appreciate your point. If these changes are put in place, I can see them being altered over and over again. This is to be expected though in a game that is always changing.



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Someone call, text or email me when The Halibut is back.
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Gloom

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Posted on Tue May 25, 2010 18:07:30
Look it's all explained clearly in Ched's opening post. You don't have to war but the price you pay is 1/16 of your respect. For that you get a NAP no ifs, buts or maybes it's controlled by the game.
If you do chose to go to war then your faction loses 1 respect per hit and if you make a hit you gain 5 respect, the 4 respect difference is just created respect. So lets say you fight a faction with 100 members and you have 20. If you do 20 hits on them for each 100 they do on you the overall effect on your faction respect is zero, nada nothing.
Eventually you will get a surrender button and you press it. If they don't accept the surrender their gains drop to 1 per hit. The only time I as a faction leader would continue such a war would be if the opposing faction had been doing or saying something really stupid and refused to publicly apologise. Then and only then would I waste my factions resources killing a faction off.

These changes are a positive thing, they enable factions who don't want to war to pay a reasonable percentage of their respect for a NAP (this is a crime game so consider it protection money), it reduces the problems of factions being chained into non-existence and IMHO will improve the playing experience for everyone.
It won't be perfect when it is first implemented but Ched has said that already and has also stated that it will be tweaked in response to valid player comments.
So stop bitching and enjoy what is to come, if you find bits that you believe are unbalanced after it goes into effect then post it in a constructive manor. That way we are all happy and who knows you might actually discover that chaining is fun

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XIII

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Posted on Tue May 25, 2010 18:32:45
I completely agree with Gloom.

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gamble
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Posted on Tue May 25, 2010 18:40:49
change it already! I'm sure a lot of people are becoming bored out of their mind just as I am.

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Golden_Knight
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Posted on Tue May 25, 2010 18:41:21
how many votes does their have to be to put the update in

I WILL BUY ESTACY FOR 50K AND BELOW
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squaddie
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Posted on Tue May 25, 2010 19:44:03
looks and sounds g8 keep up all the good work u guys do on here

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999879
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Posted on Tue May 25, 2010 19:50:11
well judging by th amount of votes i think its going to get put in to place in my faction we were discusing this before the actual poll was realesed

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cute123
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Posted on Tue May 25, 2010 20:07:25
dssssssssssssssssssssssss

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YELENA

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Posted on Tue May 25, 2010 21:09:13
I cant wait for the changes to occur

It's going to be some fun !!!!

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AL-Azhar
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Posted on Tue May 25, 2010 21:22:03
Still waiitinnnngg....when will this be implemented? I cant waiiit.........

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Warwizard169

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Posted on Tue May 25, 2010 21:23:15
Never I hope.

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Mike N.

The most cold hearted SOB around.
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LostTime
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Posted on Tue May 25, 2010 21:58:32
"These changes are a positive thing, they enable factions who don't want to war to pay a reasonable percentage of their respect for a NAP (this is a crime game so consider it protection money), it reduces the problems of factions being chained into non-existence and IMHO will improve the playing experience for everyone."

Gee thanks, you will "allow" my faction to lose respect (doesn't matter if it is small, we are still going to be out respect). Sounds like my faction and the other peaceful factions will become nothing more than farms. Not quite sure how you figure that my faction losing respect will "improve the playing experience for us". Gaining a nap will be meaningless. All that nap means is that the same faction will not be attacking us. I really don't care which faction is attacking us, I just care we are losing respect that we earned. Makes me wonder why should I continue to earn it. I really have no interest in seeing that warring factions are supplied with respect.


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quentin
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Posted on Tue May 25, 2010 22:57:20
By Gloom [189628]
Look it's all explained clearly in Ched's opening post. You don't have to war but the price you pay is 1/16 of your respect. For that you get a NAP no ifs, buts or maybes it's controlled by the game.
If you do chose to go to war then your faction loses 1 respect per hit and if you make a hit you gain 5 respect, the 4 respect difference is just created respect. So lets say you fight a faction with 100 members and you have 20. If you do 20 hits on them for each 100 they do on you the overall effect on your faction respect is zero, nada nothing.
Eventually you will get a surrender button and you press it. If they don't accept the surrender their gains drop to 1 per hit. The only time I as a faction leader would continue such a war would be if the opposing faction had been doing or saying something really stupid and refused to publicly apologise. Then and only then would I waste my factions resources killing a faction off.

These changes are a positive thing, they enable factions who don't want to war to pay a reasonable percentage of their respect for a NAP (this is a crime game so consider it protection money), it reduces the problems of factions being chained into non-existence and IMHO will improve the playing experience for everyone.
It won't be perfect when it is first implemented but Ched has said that already and has also stated that it will be tweaked in response to valid player comments.
So stop bitching and enjoy what is to come, if you find bits that you believe are unbalanced after it goes into effect then post it in a constructive manor. That way we are all happy and who knows you might actually discover that chaining is fun


i would war under these rules. I havnt wared ever i think. maybe when i first started but that was a long time ago. i am 1700+ days old.

Last Edited: Tue May 25, 2010 22:59:21
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LouieBoy

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Posted on Tue May 25, 2010 23:01:53
By Gloom [189628]
Look it's all explained clearly in Ched's opening post. You don't have to war but the price you pay is 1/16 of your respect. For that you get a NAP no ifs, buts or maybes it's controlled by the game.


read it again - the relevant paragraph isn't a description of a new rule or a piece of coding - it's a guess of about how much a faction that is unwilling (or unable) to fight back will lose (of course it might just be that the paragraph is ambiguously worded)

my confident prediction is it will open up peaceful factions to respect mining by larger factions

my fear is that the 4 to 1 thing, rather than balancing things up will make it 4 times more valuable for powerful factions to mine smaller currently peaceful factions

but hey

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AsuraX

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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 00:38:35
i agree

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HabstrakT
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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 01:27:59
Love the sound of it. Very nice warring system.

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Awareness=Biggest waste of merits
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Caddyshack

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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 01:29:29
By LouieBoy_Bazaar [989602]
By Gloom [189628]
Look it's all explained clearly in Ched's opening post. You don't have to war but the price you pay is 1/16 of your respect. For that you get a NAP no ifs, buts or maybes it's controlled by the game.


read it again - the relevant paragraph isn't a description of a new rule or a piece of coding - it's a guess of about how much a faction that is unwilling (or unable) to fight back will lose (of course it might just be that the paragraph is ambiguously worded)

my confident prediction is it will open up peaceful factions to respect mining by larger factions

my fear is that the 4 to 1 thing, rather than balancing things up will make it 4 times more valuable for powerful factions to mine smaller currently peaceful factions

but hey


that's why they are HOF. but if you can still fight back a bit, it's not a problem.

think of it this way..

a faction is a fancy word for a 'gang'. why join a gang if you're not willing to fight? and if you ARE willing to fight and your 'gang' isnt good at it, leave them for a better warring faction. it's pretty freakin' simple.

I am Caddyshack and I approve this message.
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wyckwind
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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 02:39:31
nice

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neo-saviour
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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 05:15:07
By Chedburn [1]
Based on the thread that has been heavily discussed in General Discussion, here's a poll to vote on the proposed faction change.

In short, it makes warring much more user friendly, and almost 'merges' aggressive / peaceful status in to one. Completely changing the system and bringing it back to life.

--------------------------------------------

After a lot of thought, we've completely re-designed the faction warring system, for your approval. Our aim was to keep factions as simple as possible, removing unnecessary areas and making factions fun for the large majority.

This system does the following:

-Reduces faction deaths by 99%
-Increases respect gain dramatically
-Decreases respect loss dramatically
-Creates actual goals, wars can be won and lost without even coming close to a faction dying.
-Introduces new challenges, tactics and teamwork.

The aim is to war a faction who will fight back, both sides gain respect at the same time, ultimately aiming to win the war - resulting in a bonus of respect.

Ranking change

This system completely changes warring. There should be little point warring a faction who is not willing to fight. The ranking system can be removed.

Respect gained/lost

When attacking members of a faction you will gain more than you take. For example. 4 respect gained, 1 stolen from faction. This means that most factions will always be gaining respect, even if they're losing the war.

Warring factions who don't fight back

Wars on factions who are not willing to fight back will be over very quickly. The losing faction will lose I think: 1 / 16th of their respect (because of the new warring system), and a NAP will be created between the factions once it's over.

Faction Death

Faction death will be very, VERY unlikely. It can only occur if the opposing faction actually wants to destroy your faction, and is willing to spend a long time doing it with no real respect gain. Tip: Don't piss people off.

Chaining

Chaining will be limited to the faction you're attacking. For example you could have several chains going on at once, with several different factions. There is no way to keep a chain constantly going, they will break at the end.

Quality not Quantity

Instead of warring every faction in sight, and constantly grinding them down. It will be very beneficial (and fun) to target just a few factions, plan coordinated attacks / retaliations, and war factions who fight back.

Claiming Victory

Excuse the very poor effort on paint. The final version would look very sexy, this is just to give an example.

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A faction can claim victory to end a war when:

The faction gains *Value* more respect in the war, than the other faction.

Value = Lowest factions respect divided by 4

When "Claim Victory" button appears, respect gain will be reduced by 3/4. (The same amount stolen).

If a faction is destroyed, the war will end and no bonus will be given.

When "Claim Victory" is initiated, a one month NAP will occur between the two factions. A large bonus sum of respect will also be given to the winner. The bonus sum will only be given if the loser accepts a surrender or the winner claims victory.

Gaining respect

Factions can gain respect by attacking the other faction and hospitalizing them. They can increase this respect gain by attacking many faction members at the same time, or in a row. This is called Chaining. With this system, we can add new minor ways of gaining additional respect.

- Bonus for hospitalizing 50%, 75% and 100% of the members in a faction (In one chain).

- Beating an enemy who has just hospitalized one of your faction mates would trigger a small retaliation/payback bonus (within 10 minutes).

- Every interval of 5 in a chain

- More bonuses can be added easily, do you have ideas?

Bonuses will not be earned by the winners when the "Claim Victory" button has appeared.

Faction War Limit

Considering over 95% of factions wouldn't dare warring over 5 factions at a time. We think a limit of 5 faction war declares would suffice. This would make all factions pick their targets carefully. Picking factions who can and will fight back. We also consider that faction wars will be over once won, which in some cases may be quick. Chains are also on a per faction basis which can and will be broken constantly (no need to have many faction wars for big chains).

Reviving

To prevent opposing factions exploiting the revive system, you'll be able to pick who is allowed to revive you. Friends, faction members, no one, everyone.

Big Factions vs Small Factions

Factions with many members will lose a little less respect per user than smaller factions. This is to make up for the fact that, smaller factions can attack many more users if they're against a big faction. The big faction cannot retaliate on the same level. Small factions will give more respect per member.

Peaceful status

With this system, there is no need for it at all. You don't have to war anyone if you don't want to. Big factions who pick on you, will gain very little, and you will lose even less. It's impossible for your faction to die unless the opposing faction is willing to go out of it's way for weeks, at no benefit to itself, just to kill it.

Spending respect

Straight after this system is in place (if it is), well be working on more ways to spend respect. We have a bunch of ideas which we think you guys will really love.

Other updates

We have many more OCs in design, and some other really great stuff, which well keep secret for now until its finalized (if it works out).

If you have any suggestions, please make one in the suggestions forum.

Thanks.:@


as an old one player ; i ve never seen good post like tat ; thanks ;

if no war! why we train our stat? why we do crimes? wats a reason to live in Torn?

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... A person with a new idea is a crank until the idea succeeds.

... ... ... [Mark Twain]
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theSilence

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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 06:28:48
Essentially, when implemented the Proposal allows Aggressive Faction more ego aggrandizement. Beyond the imposition of will of stronger faction upon weaker faction, an additional pernicious effect is that the change will provide some of the more hateful Aggressive Faction members greater coercive power within the Forums themselves. Once the changes are implemented, not only can they retaliate against you personally for posting something that they don't like, they can target your faction for Annihilation. Chedburn knows this and his (patently disingenuous) posture about how much fun this will be for everyone ignores the lessons of both Game and Human History

Because TC Staff are typically in bed with Aggressive Factions, it's long been the tradition of TC Staff to overlook Forum intimidation (and attempted intimidation) from Aggressive Faction players upon players from Peaceful Factions. The new rule changes will attach a very high price tag for Forum Outspokenness. Not to say that there won't always be players who will risk logging into The Eternally White Page Hell of the Outspoken, but they'll become fewer and further between.

There are some very good people involved with Aggressive Factions, I'd like to state that 'out loud'. My essential objection is our 'choice' then becomes being forced into Aggressive Status or not being in a faction at all. I believe it clear that the right thing for Chedburn to do is- if he is going to remove Peaceful Status- he should offer compensation to those who wish to redeem or 'kill off' their Peaceful Faction rather than being forced onto the Hamster Wheel of Aggressive Status. I believe that the reason Chedburn WILL NOT offer compensation for those wishing to kill off their Peaceful Factions is that Chedburn foresees Peaceful Faction Suicide as a popular choice that would leave the ravenous egos of Aggressive Factions far fewer factions to impose their wills upon.

I think that BY FAR Chedburn's single greatest weakness as a leader is that he lacks a consistent moral compass, and is prone to making disingenuous statements like-

With this system, there is no need for it at all

- when the Reality is that Chedburn himself created Peaceful Factions in recognition of the fact that a great many players did not wish to war. At the moment, it's being deceitfully represented that most players simply didn't like the existing warring system when the truth is much more fundamental- Many players find the time commitment necessary to war effectively beyond their desire. Only the most gullable believe that you can have a warring system that won't become time-devouring- the time necessary for reconnaissance and ally networking alone is staggering. Take a look at the EMAIL VOLUME most of the top Aggressive Faction leaders send out, and realize that email is only the tip of their communication iceberg.

Can you say "Live In The Game?"

Last Edited: Wed May 26, 2010 06:50:26
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Desperation
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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 06:38:31
If this comes in to effect, when will this new system start ?

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TedThomas

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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 07:00:13
By Caddyshack [108333]
By LouieBoy_Bazaar [989602]
By Gloom [189628]
Look it's all explained clearly in Ched's opening post. You don't have to war but the price you pay is 1/16 of your respect. For that you get a NAP no ifs, buts or maybes it's controlled by the game.


read it again - the relevant paragraph isn't a description of a new rule or a piece of coding - it's a guess of about how much a faction that is unwilling (or unable) to fight back will lose (of course it might just be that the paragraph is ambiguously worded)

my confident prediction is it will open up peaceful factions to respect mining by larger factions

my fear is that the 4 to 1 thing, rather than balancing things up will make it 4 times more valuable for powerful factions to mine smaller currently peaceful factions

but hey


that's why they are HOF. but if you can still fight back a bit, it's not a problem.

think of it this way..

a faction is a fancy word for a 'gang'. why join a gang if you're not willing to fight? and if you ARE willing to fight and your 'gang' isnt good at it, leave them for a better warring faction. it's pretty freakin' simple.


Actually faction means a group of people with the similar ideals and/or goals, it does not mean a gang of people that want to fight other gangs of people. Just thought I would throw that out there...;)

Last Edited: Wed May 26, 2010 07:00:46
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Licentious

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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 07:13:46
The bit about small factions giving more kinda worries me, but other than that, ah'm game. It'll be nice not to hop on yet again to find even though we aren't fighting a war we have just found two more.

Also we lost two good members due to that so it'd be nice if we could regain the drive we once had.
:|

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RabidRabbit

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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 09:15:35
Opt out (415 votes)

opt out?

Obama is a loser because as a Senator he could not make a vote...he always voted PRESENT. Could NOT make a decision and stand on it. Choose the easy way out. That shows a total lack of Leadership and a pathetic and weak personality.

Guess we got some of that type here in this game also!

opt out....id be ASHAMED to vote "opt out"
better to make a wrong decision...at least you MADE one.

Sori...guess i got sidetracked...excuse me!

Humans!!!


They have such an ANNOYING habit....they call it "Breathing"....
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TedThomas

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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 09:19:04
By RabidRabbit [1385430]
Opt out (415 votes)

opt out?

Obama is a loser because as a Senator he could not make a vote...he always voted PRESENT. Could NOT make a decision and stand on it. Choose the easy way out. That shows a total lack of Leadership and a pathetic and weak personality.

Guess we got some of that type here in this game also!

opt out....id be ASHAMED to vote "opt out"
better to make a wrong decision...at least you MADE one.

Sori...guess i got sidetracked...excuse me!


You would be ashamed? Why do you give a crap about a vote on a game so much...Personally I think its pretty sad that you would be ashamed about a vote on a game and that you feel it necessary to relate this to your anti-Obama bullshit...

Some people dont care either way, get over it...

Last Edited: Wed May 26, 2010 09:25:40
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Garfield

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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 09:28:59
so when is this happening

A drunk had been at a pub all night. At last call, the drunk stood up to leave and fell flat on his face. He tried to stand one more time, to the same result.




He figured he'd crawl outside to get some fresh air, since maybe that would sober him up
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kerajaan

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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 09:50:31
tomorrow

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Dawn

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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 10:08:45
By theSilence [387023]

- when the Reality is that Chedburn himself created Peaceful Factions in recognition of the fact that a great many players did not wish to war. At the moment, it's being deceitfully represented that most players simply didn't like the existing warring system when the truth is much more fundamental- Many players find the time commitment necessary to war effectively beyond their desire. Only the most gullable believe that you can have a warring system that won't become time-devouring- the time necessary for reconnaissance and ally networking alone is staggering. Take a look at the EMAIL VOLUME most of the top Aggressive Faction leaders send out, and realize that email is only the tip of their communication iceberg.

Can you say "Live In The Game?"


No, Ched created peaceful factions to help prepare for war. Let's get this straight. Peaceful factions were NEVER supposed to be a permanent part of the game. If you want to hang out with your friends, join a company.

Seriously, keep spewing the same incorrect garbage over and over again. No one but you believes that dribble.

Oh, and to the person who says peaceful factions earn their respect? Who are you kidding? I know that initiate oc button is hard as hell to press, but really now...



When two lubes merge as one...
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Robb-Stark

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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 10:48:57
By Diggitty [226054]
By theSilence [387023]

- when the Reality is that Chedburn himself created Peaceful Factions in recognition of the fact that a great many players did not wish to war. At the moment, it's being deceitfully represented that most players simply didn't like the existing warring system when the truth is much more fundamental- Many players find the time commitment necessary to war effectively beyond their desire. Only the most gullable believe that you can have a warring system that won't become time-devouring- the time necessary for reconnaissance and ally networking alone is staggering. Take a look at the EMAIL VOLUME most of the top Aggressive Faction leaders send out, and realize that email is only the tip of their communication iceberg.

Can you say "Live In The Game?"


No, Ched created peaceful factions to help prepare for war. Let's get this straight. Peaceful factions were NEVER supposed to be a permanent part of the game. If you want to hang out with your friends, join a company.

Seriously, keep spewing the same incorrect garbage over and over again. No one but you believes that dribble.

Oh, and to the person who says peaceful factions earn their respect? Who are you kidding? I know that initiate oc button is hard as hell to press, but really now...



he or she has a point why cant ched keep peaceful factions still not everyone can war and if he just fixes up the war system im sure peaceful factions can stay still

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Collete

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Posted on Wed May 26, 2010 10:53:59
How many players will be whinning in global chat for medical supplies when this happens ?

Last Edited: Wed May 26, 2010 10:54:32

Forum Main>>Announcements>> Big faction change - Proposal
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