| Forum Main>>Announcements>> POLL: Merits on non-incremental upgrades |
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GodsCurse
ID: 785385
Level: 75
Posts: 510
Score: 438
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Posted on Wed May 12, 2010 19:37:38
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By -UniK- [319198]
The funny thing is, that 80% of the ppl voting here, didn't spend merits on hp... they just want the merits they wasted on stats, crime success rate, items back... so basically the ppl that spent merits on hp, are getting overthrown by those that didn't. |
Yeah, that is pretty much it.... Pretty soon, they will request all our money and Items be split to compensate the Poorer Noob players.... 
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Leviathan
ID: 72335
Level: 81
Posts: 452
Score: 50
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Posted on Wed May 12, 2010 19:44:37
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Not sure if anyone mentioned this before, but here is a suggestion.
Remove the new system and take away all the merits granted by it and all upgrades done by players and reset the Merit count to what was there before it.
Bring back the old system for a week so everyone who cried saying they didn't get a chance to use their merits have a "fair chance"
After a week, implement the new system again.
And to all those who's point of argument is they can't catch with older players, you are not supposed to catch up with them in the first place. Why? Because they started playing before you and had already accomplished many things by the time you arrived here.
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Phatjack
ID: 195437
Level: 74
Posts: 162
Score: 15
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Posted on Wed May 12, 2010 20:18:08
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I vote refund
Either way; just do it soon.
I cant even decide how to place the ones I have until I know what's going down with this...
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Tyrone
ID: 685688
Level: 66
Posts: 3225
Score: 1972
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Posted on Wed May 12, 2010 20:22:33
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By GodsCurse [785385]
Yeah, that is pretty much it.... Pretty soon, they will request all our money and Items be split to compensate the Poorer Noob players.... |
Don't be such a dramaqueen...
As for reseting it for a week with the old system and then reemplementing the new system... Will have the same problem (atleast for me) as it does right now... players who start after that week.. and yes there will be new players joining the game after that still wont have the same options, everyone will have been able to invest as many merits in life as they wanted and the players who joined after that week will only be able to invest 55merits in life.
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FreeBird4EvEr
ID: 70553
Level: 76
Posts: 1932
Score: 113
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Posted on Wed May 12, 2010 20:28:11
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i still think a total reset is the only way to make it fair. kill all the stats have every1 start fresh pull another FE lets see if the greats can do it again lmao
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KZark
ID: 107442
Level: 45
Posts: 362
Score: 111
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Posted on Wed May 12, 2010 20:41:18
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I think you should also give the option to redistribute merits because with all the new features introduced it gives slight disadvantage for those who want to increase their sharpness over stealth.
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Naclamore
ID: 1386404
Level: 20
Posts: 102
Score: 0
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Posted on Wed May 12, 2010 21:00:33
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Want them back tbh
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madcat
ID: 1358851
Level: 56
Posts: 578
Score: 117
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Posted on Wed May 12, 2010 21:42:35
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my 2 cents worth on the issue. I think that the new system should be retroactively applied to all players. That's a fair way to handle the life hp.
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champ19ns
ID: 1400368
Level: 37
Posts: 395
Score: -227
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Posted on Wed May 12, 2010 21:52:38
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iT doesnt sound fair all the people who have spent them on usless things now get to spend them on better upgrades
when you use a merit it says ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO USE YOUR MERIT ON THIS AS THERE IS NO CHANGING YOUR MIND AFTER
but now your letting them change there mind i cant see how this is fair for new players once again this is only good for older players
Last Edited: Wed May 12, 2010 21:55:16
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CP_PACKAGE64_64
ID: 722529
Level: 53
Posts: 517
Score: -129
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Posted on Wed May 12, 2010 22:11:34
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By Lieutenant_Wolf [73234]
I have another concern.
awhile back you could abuse the option to buy merits with points by getting to a high level and avoiding merits. This allowed certain players to buy obscene amounts of merits, then they go and earn others like the rest of us. Meanwhile, players who already had those merits are restricted.
Id suggest reforming that along with this update if fairness is your intent. |
what he said other then that IF IT AINT BROKE DON'T FIX IT
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rookie030
ID: 939505
Level: 28
Posts: 93
Score: 6
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Posted on Wed May 12, 2010 23:04:28
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give 'em back. I want the non incremental hit points.
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FreeBird4EvEr
ID: 70553
Level: 76
Posts: 1932
Score: 113
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Posted on Wed May 12, 2010 23:05:03
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By CP_PACKAGE64_64 [722529]
By Lieutenant_Wolf [73234]
I have another concern.
awhile back you could abuse the option to buy merits with points by getting to a high level and avoiding merits. This allowed certain players to buy obscene amounts of merits, then they go and earn others like the rest of us. Meanwhile, players who already had those merits are restricted.
Id suggest reforming that along with this update if fairness is your intent. |
what he said other then that IF IT AINT BROKE DON'T FIX IT
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OH NOS TC IS BROKE
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Loki
ID: 642350
Level: 58
Posts: 1539
Score: -8
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Posted on Wed May 12, 2010 23:10:17
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By Trehlas [685688]
By GodsCurse [785385]
Yeah, that is pretty much it.... Pretty soon, they will request all our money and Items be split to compensate the Poorer Noob players.... |
Don't be such a dramaqueen...
As for reseting it for a week with the old system and then reemplementing the new system... Will have the same problem (atleast for me) as it does right now... players who start after that week.. and yes there will be new players joining the game after that still wont have the same options, everyone will have been able to invest as many merits in life as they wanted and the players who joined after that week will only be able to invest 55merits in life. |
First off you should be more respectful in a public forum. If you are resorting to name calling your argument can't be that good.
In this case are we talking about an advantage gained by cheating? No. Was there an advantage gained which was not open to other players at the time? No. Should we alter the stats of players who made legitimate moves? Sure, it's fair...
It is not hyperbole to wonder if staff can alter your stats in one area why not in other areas as well. I will even suggest another use of this basic idea.
Here goes:
When I started playing this game xanax was much cheaper than it is today. It also did not have the progressive increase of necessary addiction treatments. Players today face much higher unit cost for xanax, but also the knowledge that high use will require more visits to Switzerland(which is not cheap).
Earlier players could move themselves along the flat end of the exponential curve more quickly and cheaply. A player starting today might spend at least a year before stat gains accelerate noticably under sustained training. This is clearly unfair.
We should strip players of all stat gains made under the use of xanax and compensate them for the cost of those drugs, at the market price when bought. This would make sure that older players did not acquire and use xanax more cheaply than it is available today.
Please explain to me how these are not equivalent. I missed a whole bunch of TC goldmines, and I have never asked for a do-over. If you have your way, why shouldn't staff continuously alter players stats to serve the needs of the larger population?
Second, and more importantly, would you trust results earned in a game where those results are changeable at any future time?
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Foggy
ID: 939739
Level: 65
Posts: 2911
Score: 2190
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Posted on Wed May 12, 2010 23:11:07
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By FreeBird4EvEr [70553]
i still think a total reset is the only way to make it fair. kill all the stats have every1 start fresh pull another FE lets see if the greats can do it again lmao |
Nothing I could think of would run more people away from this game then a total reset. It was promised to never happen here and why I have stayed here.
I see only one major problem with the new merit system and that is the Life incremental plan. If Ched leaves it as is there will be a huge and ever widening gap on HP's as each player that used the 50X life.merit option levels up and adds the new incremental plan. Those coming after or those who didn't use the 50X option in time will be left behind
I am not sure why those here the longest think they should be entitled to an unfair advantage. Many have been here up to two years and have more time invested in the game then many 4 and 5 year players.
Ched is just trying to rectify a bad situation.
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Korimito
ID: 851594
Level: 46
Posts: 224
Score: 15
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Posted on Wed May 12, 2010 23:58:46
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The problem with the hp/xanax argument is very simple...
xanax is still available.
Now, if xanax was removed? That'd be a little bull. Probably impossible to rectify but not even completely unfair, as high stats would be reachable (it'd just take longer). Letting vets keep their HP creates an unreachable level of superiority.
Another reason your argument is flawed is because HP and stats are infinitely different apart from the fact that they are both numbers. It's not a question of catching up. The exponential gain is a game mechanic and it's there for a reason; To (in a fair way) separate the upper and lower classes. If Body has 10mil strength, then I can get 10mil strength. By the time I have 10mil he's going to have 30mil. So no, I'll never catch up, but my strength is not capped. I can always reach whatever strength Body has; I just won't have it at the same time as him. This is how a videogame works.
If you want to involve stats and HP in one side of an argument, I think this is how you'd do it (and this is, by the way, on the side of merit refund and health deductions).
Think of this...
What if, as of today, all stats were capped at 500k? This would prevent any player from getting over 2mil total stats. What if this cap only applied to new players? What if everyone who joined before today was able to keep their stats (and also take advantage of the incremental stat upgrades?!) That certainly wouldn't be fair, would it? It's not simply a question of seniority that has been earned by playing for a long time; It's a question of something plain unfair. An advantage gained by a select upper class that is not available to anyone else in the game.
Last Edited: Thu May 13, 2010 00:01:47
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Gzzz
ID: 473551
Level: 69
Posts: 1950
Score: 542
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Posted on Thu May 13, 2010 00:02:11
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By BrianGragg [642350]
By Trehlas [685688]
By GodsCurse [785385]
Yeah, that is pretty much it.... Pretty soon, they will request all our money and Items be split to compensate the Poorer Noob players.... |
Don't be such a dramaqueen...
As for reseting it for a week with the old system and then reemplementing the new system... Will have the same problem (atleast for me) as it does right now... players who start after that week.. and yes there will be new players joining the game after that still wont have the same options, everyone will have been able to invest as many merits in life as they wanted and the players who joined after that week will only be able to invest 55merits in life. |
First off you should be more respectful in a public forum. If you are resorting to name calling your argument can't be that good.
In this case are we talking about an advantage gained by cheating? No. Was there an advantage gained which was not open to other players at the time? No. Should we alter the stats of players who made legitimate moves? Sure, it's fair...
It is not hyperbole to wonder if staff can alter your stats in one area why not in other areas as well. I will even suggest another use of this basic idea.
Here goes:
When I started playing this game xanax was much cheaper than it is today. It also did not have the progressive increase of necessary addiction treatments. Players today face much higher unit cost for xanax, but also the knowledge that high use will require more visits to Switzerland(which is not cheap).
Earlier players could move themselves along the flat end of the exponential curve more quickly and cheaply. A player starting today might spend at least a year before stat gains accelerate noticably under sustained training. This is clearly unfair.
We should strip players of all stat gains made under the use of xanax and compensate them for the cost of those drugs, at the market price when bought. This would make sure that older players did not acquire and use xanax more cheaply than it is available today.
Please explain to me how these are not equivalent. I missed a whole bunch of TC goldmines, and I have never asked for a do-over. If you have your way, why shouldn't staff continuously alter players stats to serve the needs of the larger population?
Second, and more importantly, would you trust results earned in a game where those results are changeable at any future time? |
If you bothered to read half of what's already been written, you'd already know the answer to this.
Since it would appear you can't be bothered, I'll recap with a little example.
I'm level 50, I upgraded my life by 30k a while back through the old system, I can now use 55 merits to upgrade my life to around 160k. Take someone who spent no merits (perhaps they were saving them to use them at a higher level, perhaps they are just a new player), they come along and spend 55 merits on life and can get 100k life.
That's it, no other way to increase life, that's their max. I have a 60% advantage, why? Because I was less patient or worse at planning than them.
Can you see the difference now? A new player can eventually get to the same point an old player is at in other stats and money, after working for as long and hard. Sure the rate at which they can do this will change, but if they work at it they will get there.
There is nothing they can do about life, it is fixed. However long the new player (or indeed a player who planned better) plays, they can now never have as much life as the player who who gained on the old system.
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ItsHotLinks
ID: 682502
Level: 54
Posts: 653
Score: 209
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Posted on Thu May 13, 2010 00:05:21
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Leave it be !
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Daisy3
ID: 730750
Level: 66
Posts: 7056
Score: 4342
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Posted on Thu May 13, 2010 00:19:00
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In a progessive game like this I dont see why "fairness" would even be an issue.
And if you start trying to make things fair now.......where will it ever stop??
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rapid_riser
ID: 262223
Level: 75
Posts: 1337
Score: 232
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Posted on Thu May 13, 2010 00:24:22
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Korimito and Gzz get it
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Yes I have a BAZAAR!
Click here to browse it. |
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Tyrone
ID: 685688
Level: 66
Posts: 3225
Score: 1972
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Posted on Thu May 13, 2010 00:26:00
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By BrianGragg [642350]
By Trehlas [685688]
By GodsCurse [785385]
Yeah, that is pretty much it.... Pretty soon, they will request all our money and Items be split to compensate the Poorer Noob players.... |
Don't be such a dramaqueen...
As for reseting it for a week with the old system and then reemplementing the new system... Will have the same problem (atleast for me) as it does right now... players who start after that week.. and yes there will be new players joining the game after that still wont have the same options, everyone will have been able to invest as many merits in life as they wanted and the players who joined after that week will only be able to invest 55merits in life. |
First off you should be more respectful in a public forum. If you are resorting to name calling your argument can't be that good.
In this case are we talking about an advantage gained by cheating? No. Was there an advantage gained which was not open to other players at the time? No. Should we alter the stats of players who made legitimate moves? Sure, it's fair...
It is not hyperbole to wonder if staff can alter your stats in one area why not in other areas as well. I will even suggest another use of this basic idea.
Here goes:
When I started playing this game xanax was much cheaper than it is today. It also did not have the progressive increase of necessary addiction treatments. Players today face much higher unit cost for xanax, but also the knowledge that high use will require more visits to Switzerland(which is not cheap).
Earlier players could move themselves along the flat end of the exponential curve more quickly and cheaply. A player starting today might spend at least a year before stat gains accelerate noticably under sustained training. This is clearly unfair.
We should strip players of all stat gains made under the use of xanax and compensate them for the cost of those drugs, at the market price when bought. This would make sure that older players did not acquire and use xanax more cheaply than it is available today.
Please explain to me how these are not equivalent. I missed a whole bunch of TC goldmines, and I have never asked for a do-over. If you have your way, why shouldn't staff continuously alter players stats to serve the needs of the larger population?
Second, and more importantly, would you trust results earned in a game where those results are changeable at any future time? |
You consider dramaqueen name calling? ...Wow... I call it an observation... + the dramaqueen wasnt even who I was talking to..
as you said "Was there an advantage gained which was not open to other players at the time? No"
I say : Is there an advantage which is not open to other players at the present time? Yes
I dont care about people who invested their merits unwisely they deserve what they got...
I'll give an example... BB goes away and takes a 5 year break... CC joins the game today..and spends the next 5 year training...drugs...coupons...millions of enhancers... 5year later BB comes back and notices CC has exactly the same stats, level...the whole shabang... however BB will have 500k health, CC will have I dont know 200k health (or whatever I'm not gonna do the math too tired)...And before you say...CC should have joined medical... Fine BB left the game in medical job and returned with 5 years worth of medical points.
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Killer_Klown
ID: 651055
Level: 73
Posts: 747
Score: 136
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Posted on Thu May 13, 2010 00:40:32
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Good idea, only if the exact number of merits each player has used on non incremental upgrades is correct.
Reason I say that is after a crash a while back, there were a lot of people (myself included) that lost some of their recorded stats (Medical items used, Bounties collected, etc). As long as data on merits used for upgrades wasn't wiped as well, then giving them all back sounds good to me.
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whitman
ID: 336659
Level: 52
Posts: 57
Score: -11
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Posted on Thu May 13, 2010 00:44:29
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Torn City is a dynamic game. That means any thing you spend you have to consider that it might be changed on you in the future. If you whored Def and it got nerfed when they changed the combat system you have to adjust. You dont get all the E you spent back and a chance to redistribute as you see fit.
You got the benefits of the merit you spent when you spent it. Your still getting it. Just because you could have gotten something better is just tough. We all had the same options. We got merits and decided to spend them or save them. You spent them. If your whining then you made the wrong choice.
Adapt, move on, and quit your bitching.
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Sinful_Desires
ID: 662035
Level: 41
Posts: 337
Score: 35
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Posted on Thu May 13, 2010 01:04:34
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Id sure like my merits back. Since i am stuck with a banking system that has been made useless thanks to the silly changes that have been made to it.
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Evil_Master
ID: 870971
Level: 66
Posts: 915
Score: 15
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Posted on Thu May 13, 2010 01:22:51
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how about return the merits but don't deduct the life upgraded..seem fair 
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JAC_NiNjA
ID: 983243
Level: 14
Posts: 7
Score: 2
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Posted on Thu May 13, 2010 03:29:25
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why does it even matter? we use our merits the way we wanted why give em back? dont we have a choice in what we want to spend them on and they warn us that we couldnt get them back....
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| 968356 |
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JAC_NiNjA
ID: 983243
Level: 14
Posts: 7
Score: 2
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Posted on Thu May 13, 2010 03:32:16
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i also think we should be able to sell merits if you dont wanna upgrade anything and you need money why not be able to sell them?
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| 968356 |
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quentin
ID: 128941
Level: 32
Posts: 396
Score: 51
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Posted on Thu May 13, 2010 03:43:00
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Yes, give the merits back and deduct the bonuses (4634 votes)
No, do not give any merits back (968 votes)
I don't mind (451 votes)
No preference (332 votes)
give the merits back, let the few complain while the many are happy
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-Chain-
ID: 1280897
Level: 40
Posts: 1658
Score: 255
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Posted on Thu May 13, 2010 03:50:28
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Edit
Last Edited: Wed Dec 15, 2010 06:01:50
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Overall NBA record. 42-28 |
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DEVIL-GIRL
ID: 1371257
Level: 45
Posts: 40
Score: 9
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Posted on Thu May 13, 2010 03:52:25
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ya u should give them back
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BigErnie
ID: 1017330
Level: 41
Posts: 326
Score: 54
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Posted on Thu May 13, 2010 03:54:40
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By quentin [128941]
Yes, give the merits back and deduct the bonuses (4634 votes)
No, do not give any merits back (968 votes)
I don't mind (451 votes)
No preference (332 votes)
give the merits back, let the few complain while the many are happy |
it will come down to the top players votes not the majority, ( in my opinion )
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