By Trehlas [685688]
Sure ...If that makes you happy...
its not like the stockmarket and bank interest are the only ways of earning money... there are plenty of people in this game who are less then half my age but have twice as much money...
to gain life there are 2 ways ...Hospital and merits, the hospital is 'fair'...
The ability of being able to use 255 merits compared to the ability of only being able to use 55 merits isnt...
You didnt get my point, did you?
When the inflation went out of control, Ched reduced the interest from the bank, and reset the merits people used on banking. But they didnt get the money removed that they made from it.
Lifepoints is pretty much the same deal.
Oh, no I missed that point... but still its not the same...the only way ched could have reset the money there was to remove pretty much ALL the money because its impossible to say who earned what how... life can be reset... because everyone has a minimum of life he/she can possibly have.
By Trehlas [685688]
Oh, no I missed that point... but still its not the same...the only way ched could have reset the money there was to remove pretty much ALL the money because its impossible to say who earned what how... life can be reset... because everyone has a minimum of life he/she can possibly have.
Erm, yes it pretty much is the same. With bank interest, the merits got re-creditted, and the benefit remained. Why should this be different?
And no, not everyone has the same base HP. What about the people that already used medical points? Or the druggies that overdoses on Xanax? How is that going to be taken care off? I also spend a (great) deal of med-points on HP, whether it was to put 50 hp back after an OD or to just even out my current hp.
its not the same because money cant be reset without deleting almost all of it.
Everyone has the same base HP based on level ...its simply gets modified by the factors you mentioned... and like it or not sometimes sacrifices do have to be made, you'll lose the health gained from medical and you'll regain the health you lost from OD'ing... And anyway you can get the health back..and allot faster because I doubt you started raising your health at lvl 63
By Trehlas [685688]
Oh, no I missed that point... but still its not the same...the only way ched could have reset the money there was to remove pretty much ALL the money because its impossible to say who earned what how... life can be reset... because everyone has a minimum of life he/she can possibly have.
Erm, yes it pretty much is the same. With bank interest, the merits got re-creditted, and the benefit remained. Why should this be different?
And no, not everyone has the same base HP. What about the people that already used medical points? Or the druggies that overdoses on Xanax? How is that going to be taken care off? I also spend a (great) deal of med-points on HP, whether it was to put 50 hp back after an OD or to just even out my current hp.
It seems as if some will benefit and some will lose with the HP reset if it occurs. That task of individually doing each account seems like a monumental and logistical nightmare to account for each HP gain or loss.
The new system created a huge SNAFU even for those using the old system wisely creating a very unfair situation. It seems if fair is what he wants, just return the 50X life option for ease of righting a wrong. But that system will still create HP monsters with all the new merits we are now able to acquire. I applaud Ched for even considering attempting to correct the situation.
im not sure you read my post right i did not say i went inactive i said i did not really start to "PLAY" the game until day 140 before that i was just making stupid decisions left and right on merits like the old option to increase crime success rate well that was an utter pile of BS and according to TCbasic it made next to no difference in fail rate now how was that fair? to spend merits on one thing and then find out that it did next to nothing and crimes are a noobies best option of making money so why wouldn't i have used them on that? not to mention all the merits i wasted on banking just to have it get slashed to .96% and stats well that's a complete joke for someone with under a 5k total at the time i mean come on most people on torn want a reset because of the crappy choices there were that's the main reason noobs "wasted" them to begin with and your telling us tough luck when it was pure luck that you used them when you did or did you have friends in staff telling you that it might be a perfectly good time to use them on HP because it won't be there next week?
When he changed bank interest We were given the CHOICE whether or not we wanted to have the merits back. He didn't just take them away along with any benefit we received. FACT
If you were following advice on when to use your merits then how did you use merits on crime success? Because in any advice area you will see that you are told how useless it is. You went from wanting it to be "fair" to wanting the merits back because you made bad decisions. Lots of bad decisions have been made so everyone should get reset? No way.
By Trehlas [685688]
Oh, no I missed that point... but still its not the same...the only way ched could have reset the money there was to remove pretty much ALL the money because its impossible to say who earned what how... life can be reset... because everyone has a minimum of life he/she can possibly have.
Erm, yes it pretty much is the same. With bank interest, the merits got re-creditted, and the benefit remained. Why should this be different?
And no, not everyone has the same base HP. What about the people that already used medical points? Or the druggies that overdoses on Xanax? How is that going to be taken care off? I also spend a (great) deal of med-points on HP, whether it was to put 50 hp back after an OD or to just even out my current hp.
Okay, it's a fair point about banking bonuses.
Over two years, at 74.1% interest for 3 months (10/10 merits) - you get just under 12billion if you banked 2billion each time.
Yes, 12 billion in a reasonable amount of money - but compared to the old stock market, not too great a deal. Plus there was other ways to make that money.
The point with life, is that there is NO other, anywhere near equal way.
You want more life than normal? Then you can spend on the incremental upgrade.
And I don't know exactly what record they have of what....so maybe some people will gain/lose health depending on what medical points or ODs they've gone. For the majority, that'll be a lot less of an 'unfairity' than the bonus you guys have with health.
By FSTWRX [887159]
Well they saved their merits as strategy and it failed! Too f-ing bad life's not fair sometimes and, btw, there is still a life upgrade which works perfectly fine.
If the current one works "perfectly fine" then you having nothing to worry about in the event of your life being reset.
Why should we have our game reset because they kept a hold of their merits? And I did use the new system thank you. As I said before, lets even the whole playing field to make it fair then... Stats, Money, Level. I mean if we wanna make it fair, right?
I say just leave everything as it is, if we spent our merits on non incremental bonuses...so what, we still have the increased life and stats added. Let it be more beneficial to the newer players.
I spend a huge lot of merits on increasing my HP. Originally I should have 101250 HP, and without the current incremental upgrade I had 301100. If those merits would get returned I would get a max HP of 164926.
I choose to skip crits, nerve, awareness and whatnot to get my life up like this, and now it should be removed?
Doesnt seem all that fair, in my humble opinion.
I agree with him...this is a game and whatever decesion/choice you make now will have an effect on you later down the line (good or bad)
Those who upgraded their life without incremental upgrade will have an advantage but those who didnt too bad, this surely proven you should choose you choices wisely
:|o
Ditto to both! I wasted a few merits back in the day, but I would never cry 'unfair!' because of my own poor, uneducated choice...
I agree 100%, and still feel that if players want to get Merits back.... Then there should be a Sign Up Sheet, where they may ADD there name to get this done....
im not sure you read my post right i did not say i went inactive i said i did not really start to "PLAY" the game until day 140 before that i was just making stupid decisions left and right on merits like the old option to increase crime success rate well that was an utter pile of BS and according to TCbasic it made next to no difference in fail rate now how was that fair? to spend merits on one thing and then find out that it did next to nothing and crimes are a noobies best option of making money so why wouldn't i have used them on that? not to mention all the merits i wasted on banking just to have it get slashed to .96% and stats well that's a complete joke for someone with under a 5k total at the time i mean come on most people on torn want a reset because of the crappy choices there were that's the main reason noobs "wasted" them to begin with and your telling us tough luck when it was pure luck that you used them when you did or did you have friends in staff telling you that it might be a perfectly good time to use them on HP because it won't be there next week?
When he changed bank interest We were given the CHOICE whether or not we wanted to have the merits back. He didn't just take them away along with any benefit we received. FACT
If you were following advice on when to use your merits then how did you use merits on crime success? Because in any advice area you will see that you are told how useless it is. You went from wanting it to be "fair" to wanting the merits back because you made bad decisions. Lots of bad decisions have been made so everyone should get reset? No way.
Not entirely true... Ched isn't just reseting ...which the point of this poll...Your problem is that there are more people who made bad decisions then good decisions
I spend a huge lot of merits on increasing my HP. Originally I should have 101250 HP, and without the current incremental upgrade I had 301100. If those merits would get returned I would get a max HP of 164926.
I choose to skip crits, nerve, awareness and whatnot to get my life up like this, and now it should be removed?
Doesnt seem all that fair, in my humble opinion.
I agree with him...this is a game and whatever decesion/choice you make now will have an effect on you later down the line (good or bad)
Those who upgraded their life without incremental upgrade will have an advantage but those who didnt too bad, this surely proven you should choose you choices wisely
:|o
Ditto to both! I wasted a few merits back in the day, but I would never cry 'unfair!' because of my own poor, uneducated choice...
I agree 100%, and still feel that if players want to get Merits back.... Then there should be a Sign Up Sheet, where they may ADD there name to get this done....
This is a better way of putting it...here you go Ched
xD
I voted yes although i'm not sure that in the short term losing life in return for 20 merits is that great of a deal. I do get a redo on some stupid moves... Never did think crime merit did anything At least I get a better shot at these folks that currently have 100k+ life
Definitely a fair thing to do but.... like was mentioned further up it does give the higher level guys who would get 100's of merits back an advantage but.... that could be seen as a reward for having played for a long time.
I think that makes it more fair to everyone, cause I was thinking about all the merits I could gain if I was a brand new player. Sound good, thumbs up.
By Doublejack69 [268095]
Ya... just reset all my stats thats ive worked so hard to get over the years.
This way its 'fair'
/me tuts and shrugs. Donkeh!
I didn't really suggest resetting stats I was merely making satire of the fact that this new idea is meant to be "fair" to all players when in reality there are many things that will keep this game "unfair" for new players.
I in no way intended to really suggest resetting stats. Just using my sarcasm skills.
By FSTWRX [887159]
Well they saved their merits as strategy and it failed! Too f-ing bad life's not fair sometimes and, btw, there is still a life upgrade which works perfectly fine.
If the current one works "perfectly fine" then you having nothing to worry about in the event of your life being reset.
Why should we have our game reset because they kept a hold of their merits? And I did use the new system thank you. As I said before, lets even the whole playing field to make it fair then... Stats, Money, Level. I mean if we wanna make it fair, right?
The way I look at it is, this could be compared to with money. When the whole stock market boom came along people decided not to use it and keep banking their money and they were left in the dust. They thought their best strategy was to keep on banking instead of taking risk with the stock market.
Same with merits. People took risk and spent their merits, others decided to hang on to them for years.
if you were to return the merits would you also change the way to spend them back to the way it used to be where you can spend them endlessly on life as well as the other items that they were originally able to be used for? if so then I vote yes give back the merits...otherwise it will be useless for so many and they will be unspent...the last use of spending merits was useless...I know many that like it where you could spend them without having to use more and more to upgrade things like life and other things
By Chedburn [1]
We're considering giving all merits back to users who spent them on non-incremental upgrades before the update. This will result in users losing their bonuses gained from previous updates such as life, crime experience e.t.c.
This is the only way we can maintain long-term fairness for all players.
There are some drawbacks - users who spent their merits on items will receive those merits back, and get to keep the items and we may not be able to deduct stats from users who spent merits on upgrading them.
Considering that these upgrades probably only gave a small bonus for a small amount of time, the effects and money gained from these upgrades in particular should have long-since worn off.
What does everyone think, should we return the merits, and deduct 'most' of the bonuses?
By Vaticanlazy [99178]
no... not advantages that others can NEVER catch up on.
Extend the idea:
Exponential gains in stats would need to be done away with then. If someone earns faster than you it will be impossible to catch them.
Today the game-wide stats distribution is skewed toward the top end. It wouldn't be enough to end exponential stat growth. You'd need to remove stats earned by players.
Money, too is a problem. Many players earn bank returns which are way above their fixed costs(staff,upkeep,dp). Someone with less money spends a higher percentage of their earnings. Their returns would have to be several TIMES that of a wealthy player just to keep pace.
I've always tried to be respectful in this game, because you are often dealing with much stronger people. The high level of inequality in TC, which has many aspects, is troubling.
The answer shouldn't be direct confiscation of benefits accrued to players who were acting in good faith. I hate cheaters. I've gotten people jailed for that. Everyone who wants to get their merits back so they can choose again should consider this: the people that will get shafted have done nothing wrong.
The whole satisfaction of TC comes from extended goal oriented effort. If fairly earned rewards are revocable the whole process is cheapened.
i didnt read your whole post, i dont have the time today, maybe in a few weeks, but your first point... ridiculous. look at canter... successful player caught up with ID's 5 times older than he was. FACT. need i say more?
EDIT: i read it all actually and my assumption was correct, your post is misjudged:
Hobbie replies to your post well:
By Hobbie [443763]
That is wrong. If one player trains just 10 more energy per day than another, even is the other has billions of a stat - eventually they will catch up and overtake. Extreme example, but I hope it shows the point.
If newer player wants to catch up, they have to out-do the older. It'll be hard, but it's possible.
Exactly the same with money.
But with health....the only way to increase health apart from the new merits and leveling, would be medical points. At level 100, you'll gain 55 HP per day. A bonus of 100k HP would have cost 40 merits at level 50 - perfectly reasonable.
That same HP would take 1818 days to gain from medical. Quite a bit of a difference I think.
And that's assuming they're at level 100 (which no one is yet) and someone only have 100k extra.
EDIT:
Your post would be irrelevant if what i and many other advocate, bring back the damn old system in addition to the new. No advantages, no disadvantages FOR ALL PLAYERS
I would like my merits back if that is how it works i like the incremental
Doing free bails if you need bails just ask and if i got the money ill do it if you feel the need to pay me back it will go towards bailing others out thanks
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At least I get a better shot at these folks that currently have 100k+ life 
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