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Forum Main>>Announcements>> POLL: Merits on non-incremental upgrades
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Noogai

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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 20:26:30
By TornAlchemist [703272]
By Stoupey [480400]
starts everything again, give everyone all their merits back then their is no porblem.


Sounds like a plan i like this idea, start everything again, work from a clean slate


I agree


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TaylorQuit
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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 20:32:02
how about just letting us have both life options?

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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 20:40:30
Someone just lost his forum privelages....tsk.

- Staff.

Last Edited: Mon May 10, 2010 20:46:35
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Tricky_Dicky

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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 20:43:32
give back i lol

[
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Hessian

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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 20:47:25
I didnt spent merits on awereness and bank interest rate (50% in 3 months !!!) - I spent them on hp.

It is really fair that some players made billions of cash and now they get those merits back ???????
I have only life - now you want to take it ? :///



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Gift_Of_God
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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 20:47:48
By popadapill [900338]
How many of these "votes" will be from fecking multis?Anyone one who wants it badly enough could be fecking with the poll.


That works both ways

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Esper

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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 20:49:18
Well, as lonng as there is no extremely high stated person for his age that gained it by using a ton of merits on a low stat while he had a high level and whored another stat and now has multiple high stats because he did this and can now get a ton of merits back, then its ok.

I think for people like this, there should be a 2/3 merit return/ Those who didn't really benefit exceedingly, as you mentioned, and only used a few on stats can have all theirs back.

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Supernaut
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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 20:49:39
By MurderDeathKill [299282]
By Lieutenant_Wolf [73234]
I have another concern.

awhile back you could abuse the option to buy merits with points by getting to a high level and avoiding merits. This allowed certain players to buy obscene amounts of merits, then they go and earn others like the rest of us. Meanwhile, players who already had those merits are restricted.

Id suggest reforming that along with this update if fairness is your intent.


That sounds more like a strategy


This. Then I am up for it.

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Gift_Of_God
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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 20:50:26
By Hessian [8030]
I didnt spent merits on awereness and bank interest rate (50% in 3 months !!!) - I spent them on hp.

It is really fair that some players made billions of cash and now they get those merits back ???????
I have only life - now you want to take it ? :///



They got their merits back for that over a year ago when ched decreased the bank interest rate and what do you think they probably spent their returned merits on, that's right, life

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Loki

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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 21:16:10
By Vaticanlazy [99178]
no... not advantages that others can NEVER catch up on.


Extend the idea:

Exponential gains in stats would need to be done away with then. If someone earns faster than you it will be impossible to catch them.

Today the game-wide stats distribution is skewed toward the top end. It wouldn't be enough to end exponential stat growth. You'd need to remove stats earned by players.

Money, too is a problem. Many players earn bank returns which are way above their fixed costs(staff,upkeep,dp). Someone with less money spends a higher percentage of their earnings. Their returns would have to be several TIMES that of a wealthy player just to keep pace.

I've always tried to be respectful in this game, because you are often dealing with much stronger people. The high level of inequality in TC, which has many aspects, is troubling.

The answer shouldn't be direct confiscation of benefits accrued to players who were acting in good faith. I hate cheaters. I've gotten people jailed for that. Everyone who wants to get their merits back so they can choose again should consider this: the people that will get shafted have done nothing wrong.

The whole satisfaction of TC comes from extended goal oriented effort. If fairly earned rewards are revocable the whole process is cheapened.

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Phil
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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 21:23:43
wow I voted 'dont mind' as I actually dont mind. I wanted to see how the voting was going and I guess its pretty much a landslide lol

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Harm_less
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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 21:39:24
very unfair poll. how can lvl 10 compare to long time uses of torn.

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Hobbie

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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 21:39:31
By BrianGragg [642350]
By Vaticanlazy [99178]
no... not advantages that others can NEVER catch up on.


Extend the idea:

Exponential gains in stats would need to be done away with then. If someone earns faster than you it will be impossible to catch them.

Today the game-wide stats distribution is skewed toward the top end. It wouldn't be enough to end exponential stat growth. You'd need to remove stats earned by players.

Money, too is a problem. Many players earn bank returns which are way above their fixed costs(staff,upkeep,dp). Someone with less money spends a higher percentage of their earnings. Their returns would have to be several TIMES that of a wealthy player just to keep pace.


That is wrong. If one player trains just 10 more energy per day than another, even is the other has billions of a stat - eventually they will catch up and overtake. Extreme example, but I hope it shows the point.
If newer player wants to catch up, they have to out-do the older. It'll be hard, but it's possible.
Exactly the same with money.

But with health....the only way to increase health apart from the new merits and leveling, would be medical points. At level 100, you'll gain 55 HP per day. A bonus of 100k HP would have cost 40 merits at level 50 - perfectly reasonable.
That same HP would take 1818 days to gain from medical. Quite a bit of a difference I think.
And that's assuming they're at level 100 (which no one is yet) and someone only have 100k extra.


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PunishedSnake

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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 21:46:44
By Chedburn [1]
We're considering giving all merits back to users who spent them on non-incremental upgrades before the update. This will result in users losing their bonuses gained from previous updates such as life, crime experience e.t.c.

This is the only way we can maintain long-term fairness for all players.

There are some drawbacks - users who spent their merits on items will receive those merits back, and get to keep the items and we may not be able to deduct stats from users who spent merits on upgrading them.

Considering that these upgrades probably only gave a small bonus for a small amount of time, the effects and money gained from these upgrades in particular should have long-since worn off.

What does everyone think, should we return the merits, and deduct 'most' of the bonuses?


This. Don't you think ched thought this out for some time?

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EnragedBull
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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 21:54:31
return the merits

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abysmalpoptart
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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 22:09:33
all i can say is, if the non-incremental benefits are not given back, then i would like to have my old bank interest back please

and here is a thought:

KEEP life as a non-incremental, but in THIS fashion, to make it similar the old one:

1 merit in HP gives a 1% bonus to your overall HP (much like now), and this can go all the way up to 50% total (or 100% or whatever who cares).

currently, it costs 55 merits to get 50% bonus to HP. this would be 50 merits to get 50% bonus. and then we could do like the banking interest:

hey guys, your non-incremental health now does THIS. end of story. if you want to transfer your points over to health, GREAT! 50 merits max, all the rest will be returned to you. You don't?? ok, here are all your merits back

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blindsatan

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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 22:18:22
Give it back.

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JW33
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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 22:23:47
Yes I would Love to have mine back...spent allot on life before i figured it made no difference really.

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Oeha

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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 22:26:12

(Sorry I deleted to much of my quote of Hobbie )

That is wrong. If one player trains just 10 more energy per day than another, even is the other has billions of a stat - eventually they will catch up and overtake. Extreme example, but I hope it shows the point.

That is in general wrong also.

Last Edited: Mon May 10, 2010 22:27:23
You have 0 casino tokens and a current streak of $80,000 ... wow!!!
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FreeBird4EvEr

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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 22:33:47
heres what i see wrong with giving them back as i seen with the bank merit returns those that didnt put them back into the bank were the rich sobs that could buy god they took them and put it into life now they got money that = high stats and high life
if you take our life away the 1s with money high stats and life can just turn around put them back into life (they will still be higher remember 5% at lvl 50 60 70 gains more then lvl 10 20 )
and then use them on the new weapon and passive stuff making them harder to beat... if you dont give them back all the newer players will have to do like us be4 the merits where in place and work in the hospital a little while rather then use merits there is away to get life just takes longer

1 more thing to add if you need something to fix make it so we can report events and turn off mails from players that are not on our friends list or staff now that would be great lol oh and turn off invites to rr.... im tired of seeing this *You have a pending russian roulette invite!*

Last Edited: Mon May 10, 2010 22:37:07
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Fiasko

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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 22:37:47
By Hessian [8030]
I didnt spent merits on awereness and bank interest rate (50% in 3 months !!!) - I spent them on hp.

It is really fair that some players made billions of cash and now they get those merits back ???????
I have only life - now you want to take it ? :///



Yeah, that doesnt seem all too fair to me..



Last Edited: Mon May 10, 2010 22:39:23
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Link10042
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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 22:37:52
i would like them back


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FreeBird4EvEr

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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 22:47:38
By Hunter_X [1313478]
By Chedburn [1]
We're considering giving all merits back to users who spent them on non-incremental upgrades before the update. This will result in users losing their bonuses gained from previous updates such as life, crime experience e.t.c.

This is the only way we can maintain long-term fairness for all players.

There are some drawbacks - users who spent their merits on items will receive those merits back, and get to keep the items and we may not be able to deduct stats from users who spent merits on upgrading them.

Considering that these upgrades probably only gave a small bonus for a small amount of time, the effects and money gained from these upgrades in particular should have long-since worn off.

What does everyone think, should we return the merits, and deduct 'most' of the bonuses?


This. Don't you think ched thought this out for some time?


no i dont or he wouldnt be doing it ... me thinks he likes to fly by the seat of his pants look how bad he fracked FE up and TC

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Lady_Luck

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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 22:50:48
bloody hell NO! We spent the merits fair and square when we were able to and its not fair to take it away. I worked bloody hard to get merits to be able to spend on life dont you DARE take that away.

If theres a problem of 'fairness' the put it back to the old system and make it fair for everyone!



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abysmalpoptart
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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 22:58:53
if thats the case, give me the old banking interest rates back because i didnt want the change. you had health, you used it in battle, it served you well, helped you get respect, helped you do whatever you needed it for. now the game has changed, and it goes away. it isnt just a random change, its a HUGE change that affects EVERYONE. but let it affect EVERYONE EQUALLY, dont just be greedy and whine in the corner because you'll lose some HP. you just want the advantage cuz nobody will be able to get what you have EVER

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coolbean04
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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 23:08:21
Keep it.

Everyone plays the game and risks their actions.

NO ONE predicted Ched was doing this so it's not like someone was able to take advantage of it.

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Nuggz
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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 23:13:15
Take the merits back? i think thats crazy talk. whats done is done. I just wish we knew what we were working for and what we needed to do to earn all of the new honors.

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RunWithScissors
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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 23:18:14
I dunno - Are you classifying merits used for 50 life X level as returnable? As tbh I don't fancy losing most of my current life points.

I can understand everyone's arguments about keeping things fair, but in all fairness, its not our fault if other players spent their merits unwisely or complain that older members of TC have an unfair advantage, I have been playing for 1610 days - I don't complain that people older than me have an unfair advantage because they playred longer than me. I have 185,827
HP, some people have more than me, others have less...

Merits ae only merits at the end of the day, the new Honours system added another 100 merits into the game right? Why not focus on getting more of the new merits as intended, rather than dwell on previous awards/merits?

That's my rant over lol

*EDIT* Just had a thought... Does this mean that way back when you could still use a merit for $25,000 X level too?

Last Edited: Mon May 10, 2010 23:24:28
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Guidonchacha
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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 23:22:13
Why don't you put this in the Voting Booth and start letting people get merits by voting. Or you could just delete the voting in awards. Either would make since to me, this post doesn't.

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WillyDribblezZ

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Posted on Mon May 10, 2010 23:34:08
what an idea , i made some bad moves with merits when i first started it would be awesome to return them all *****stars

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Forum Main>>Announcements>> POLL: Merits on non-incremental upgrades
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